Re: Were CCDs better on colour than CMOS?
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Re: Were CCDs better on colour than CMOS?
| Chris L Peterson | 27 Jan 2009 01:21 |
>I think they've already started using them on a small scale. No 1G or >larger CMOS sensors at the back of professional telescopes yet. But it >seems like CMOS might be good on satellites. I don't know of any CMOS sensor being used for professional astronomical imaging, but they are used in related applications, like wavefront sensors for adaptive optics, and for autoguiders. In these applications they have distinct advantages over CCDs. _________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com
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| Rich | 27 Jan 2009 00:33 |
> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in news:b29b5bcd-0942-4d1a-8d31- > b6ad39d29707@n33g2000pri.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > There are a few papers on SPIE exploring the use of CMOS technology > for astronomical applications. I think they've already started using them on a small scale. No 1G or larger CMOS sensors at the back of professional telescopes yet. But it seems like CMOS might be good on satellites.
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| Pierre Vandevenne | 26 Jan 2009 15:02 |
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in news:b29b5bcd-0942-4d1a-8d31- b6ad39d29707@n33g2000pri.googlegroups.com:
> whole chip, and the advantage that since there is only one set of > electronics reading the charge from all the cells, the image is > inherently uniform. Yes, the non linearity of the response of those small amplifiers remains an issue.
> Thus, CCD is still the traditional choice, although some say that CMOS > has caught up with it. From a digital photography point of view, definitely. The Canon D30 (launched in 2000 if my memory serves me well, not the later 30D) was arguably the first widely available very good DSLR using a CMOS sensor. Since that day, I believe all Canon DSLR used CMOS sensors.
For high speed video, CCD is definitely on the exit.
There are a few papers on SPIE exploring the use of CMOS technology for astronomical applications.
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| Quadibloc | 26 Jan 2009 14:02 |
> This, despite obvious improvements > in other areas (like noise) going from CCD to CMOS. Interesting.
Noise used to be one of the big problems with CMOS image sensors.
I was reading up on this to find out what the differences were. Originally, CCD sensors were used because they had good performance, while the first CMOS sensors gave very noisy images. Then the CMOS design was changed, so that instead of simply one light-sensing transistor per cell, a small amplifier was added as well. This improved the performance with noise.
Today, CMOS sensors have two advantages - they can be read out more quickly, and they have inherent resistance to "blooming". But CCD sensors have the advantage that the sensor area covers nearly the whole chip, and the advantage that since there is only one set of electronics reading the charge from all the cells, the image is inherently uniform.
Thus, CCD is still the traditional choice, although some say that CMOS has caught up with it.
John Savard
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| Rich | 26 Jan 2009 09:39 |
Bit depth aside, photogs know from experience when something is "off." For instance, I know one photog who kept a Nikon D200 after buying a D300 because they just could not render the same skin tone quality with the newer model. No profile would do it. This, despite obvious improvements in other areas (like noise) going from CCD to CMOS.
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| Chris L Peterson | 25 Jan 2009 22:34 |
>I heard this refrain time and again on the Olympus Dpreview group, that the >E-1 (CCD) had better colour than the NMOS sensors in the other Olympus >models. This is the first time I've seen it mentioned on the Nikon group Getting accurate color on ordinary images with any electronic sensor (or film, for that matter) is an extremely complex problem- much more so than for astronomical imaging. People are instantly aware of very subtle color errors when comparing an image to reality (which you can't do with most astronomical targets). So each camera maker uses their own proprietary magic to manipulate the data into a realistic gamut. Some do better than others, and some do better on some camera models than on others.
There are differences between CCDs and CMOS detectors that manifest themselves in different ways, but I don't see color accuracy as one of those. Maybe on older cameras, where CMOS sensors were more limited in dynamic range than CCDs, there could be some processing issues. But for the last few years, cameras with CCDs and CMOS have both had similar dynamic range- about 12 bits- which is more than enough to process and reduce to 8-bit images. _________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com
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| Rich | 25 Jan 2009 20:46 |
I heard this refrain time and again on the Olympus Dpreview group, that the E-1 (CCD) had better colour than the NMOS sensors in the other Olympus models. This is the first time I've seen it mentioned on the Nikon group (s).
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1039&message=30779163
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