Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
PhotoKB Home
Discussion Groups
Digital Photography
Digital PhotoDSLR CamerasZLR CamerasPoint & Shoot Cameras
Film Photography
35 mmLarge FormatMedium formatDarkroomFilm and LabsOther Equipment
Photo Technique
Nature PhotographyPeople PhotographyTechnique General
General Photo Topics
General TopicsAustralian PhotographyUK Photography
DirectoryPhoto Clubs

Re: Were CCDs better on colour than CMOS?

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.



You are accessing this site in a read-only mode. For full access to all member benefits, including message posting, please login or register. Registration is completely free, simple, and takes only a few seconds.

Login | Free PhotoKB.com registration | Whole discussion thread

The message you are replying to and its parents are listed in the reverse order with the most recent posts first. This might not be the whole discussion thread. To read all the messages in this thread please click here.

Re: Were CCDs better on colour than CMOS?

Chris L Peterson27 Jan 2009 01:21
>I think they've already started using them on a small scale.  No 1G or
>larger CMOS sensors at the back of professional telescopes yet.  But it
>seems like CMOS might be good on satellites.

I don't know of any CMOS sensor being used for professional astronomical
imaging, but they are used in related applications, like wavefront
sensors for adaptive optics, and for autoguiders. In these applications
they have distinct advantages over CCDs.
_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

Rich27 Jan 2009 00:33
> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in news:b29b5bcd-0942-4d1a-8d31-
> b6ad39d29707@n33g2000pri.googlegroups.com:
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> There are a few papers on SPIE exploring the use of CMOS technology
> for astronomical applications.

I think they've already started using them on a small scale.  No 1G or
larger CMOS sensors at the back of professional telescopes yet.  But it
seems like CMOS might be good on satellites.

Pierre Vandevenne26 Jan 2009 15:02
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in news:b29b5bcd-0942-4d1a-8d31-
b6ad39d29707@n33g2000pri.googlegroups.com:

> whole chip, and the advantage that since there is only one set of
> electronics reading the charge from all the cells, the image is
> inherently uniform.

Yes, the non linearity of the response of those small amplifiers remains an
issue.

> Thus, CCD is still the traditional choice, although some say that CMOS
> has caught up with it.

From a digital photography point of view, definitely. The Canon D30
(launched in 2000 if my memory serves me well, not the later 30D) was
arguably the first widely available very good DSLR using a CMOS sensor.
Since that day, I believe all Canon DSLR used CMOS sensors.

For high speed video, CCD is definitely on the exit.

There are a few papers on SPIE exploring the use of CMOS technology for
astronomical applications.

Quadibloc26 Jan 2009 14:02
> This, despite obvious improvements
> in other areas (like noise) going from CCD to CMOS.

Interesting.

Noise used to be one of the big problems with CMOS image sensors.

I was reading up on this to find out what the differences were.
Originally, CCD sensors were used because they had good performance,
while the first CMOS sensors gave very noisy images. Then the CMOS
design was changed, so that instead of simply one light-sensing
transistor per cell, a small amplifier was added as well. This
improved the performance with noise.

Today, CMOS sensors have two advantages - they can be read out more
quickly, and they have inherent resistance to "blooming". But CCD
sensors have the advantage that the sensor area covers nearly the
whole chip, and the advantage that since there is only one set of
electronics reading the charge from all the cells, the image is
inherently uniform.

Thus, CCD is still the traditional choice, although some say that CMOS
has caught up with it.

John Savard

Rich26 Jan 2009 09:39
Bit depth aside, photogs know from experience when something is "off."  For
instance, I know one photog who kept a Nikon D200 after buying a D300
because they just could not render the same skin tone quality with the
newer model.  No profile would do it.  This, despite obvious improvements
in other areas (like noise) going from CCD to CMOS.

Chris L Peterson25 Jan 2009 22:34
>I heard this refrain time and again on the Olympus Dpreview group, that the
>E-1 (CCD) had better colour than the NMOS sensors in the other Olympus
>models.  This is the first time I've seen it mentioned on the Nikon group

Getting accurate color on ordinary images with any electronic sensor (or
film, for that matter) is an extremely complex problem- much more so
than for astronomical imaging. People are instantly aware of very subtle
color errors when comparing an image to reality (which you can't do with
most astronomical targets). So each camera maker uses their own
proprietary magic to manipulate the data into a realistic gamut. Some do
better than others, and some do better on some camera models than on
others.

There are differences between CCDs and CMOS detectors that manifest
themselves in different ways, but I don't see color accuracy as one of
those. Maybe on older cameras, where CMOS sensors were more limited in
dynamic range than CCDs, there could be some processing issues. But for
the last few years, cameras with CCDs and CMOS have both had similar
dynamic range- about 12 bits- which is more than enough to process and
reduce to 8-bit images.
_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

Rich25 Jan 2009 20:46
I heard this refrain time and again on the Olympus Dpreview group, that the
E-1 (CCD) had better colour than the NMOS sensors in the other Olympus
models.  This is the first time I've seen it mentioned on the Nikon group
(s).

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1039&message=30779163

Quick links:

 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage




©2010 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.