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Re: Is there a Zone System for poor people?
| Tom Phillips | 25 Nov 2004 02:38 |
> > Depends on how much I got paid. Generally I'd want > > to make at least 20 percent profit on the deal... > > They and the vendor should pay me for > the hours lost trying to get two defective units > to function. Like I said, they _would_ have to pay me to buy one :)
> -- > LOL!!! |
| Udie Lafing | 24 Nov 2004 22:10 |
> Depends on how much I got paid. Generally I'd want > to make at least 20 percent profit on the deal... They and the vendor should pay me for the hours lost trying to get two defective units to function.
 Signature LOL!!!
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| Tom Phillips | 24 Nov 2004 21:29 |
> > > I wrote their sales dept and asked for documentation to back up their > > > claims. We'll see what I get back, if anything. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > I wouldn't buy a Microtek if you paid me at this point. Depends on how much I got paid. Generally I'd want to make at least 20 percent profit on the deal...
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| Udie Lafing | 24 Nov 2004 21:27 |
> > I wrote their sales dept and asked for documentation to back up their > > claims. We'll see what I get back, if anything. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > signal to noise doesn't give the Dmax Epson claims for > it. I wouldn't buy a Microtek if you paid me at this point.
 Signature LOL!!!
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| Tom Phillips | 24 Nov 2004 21:00 |
> I wrote their sales dept and asked for documentation to back up their > claims. We'll see what I get back, if anything. Good luck. They won't be able to tell you because they don't do signal to noise and sales folks wouldn't have that info anyway (if they even know what it is...) Want to do your own s/n test a good book describing the procedure is Robert Gann's Desktop Scanners: Image Quality Evaluation. Dr. Gann is an engineer at Hewlitt Packard.
Look -- it's probably a decent consumer scanner for what it is. It all depends on what you need one for (not densitometry, however.) I have an Epson Expression 1600 sitting next to my Macintosh. A pretty decent flat bed. It'll do prepress, but ain't high end. And it's signal to noise doesn't give the Dmax Epson claims for it.
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| Jed Savage | 24 Nov 2004 19:34 |
I wrote their sales dept and asked for documentation to back up their claims. We'll see what I get back, if anything.
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| Tom Phillips | 24 Nov 2004 17:27 |
> No such thing as a 48 bit scanner. O.K.well I should probably clarify what I said. I meant no such thing as a _cheap_ 48 bit scanner, since if the scanner is cheap they likely had to sacrifice some higher end components _somewhere_ (meaning even if it can scan a true 16 bits per channel likely can't process/deliver 48 bits.)
In any case, looks like the i900 incorporates a separate scan bed for film, which is good -- better than using an adapter for scanning film on the flatbed. But I'm skeptical of the claim it captures "more tonal information than a stand alone film scanner." I.e., they don't actually say *which* stand alones (low end/high end film scanners) it's "better" than.
While the Dmax claim is clearly bogus, it's probably fine for scanning negative film (negative films have a low Dmax anyway, 2.8 or less.) Possibly fair for transparencies but not high end (4.0 Dmax.) Again, no way to know without testing. Problem is manufacturers don't provide a true Dmax based on s/n ratio since if they did they couldn't make extraordinary claims about their products...
> No such thing as a 48 bit scanner. And certainly no > flat bed or CCD scanner can achieve a 4.2 D-max. 4.2 [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > development adjustments with contrast filters? Or does it not work > > that way? |
| Tom Phillips | 24 Nov 2004 05:49 |
> I've been reading about the zone system and I'd like to start > experimenting with it... the only problem is I can't afford a > densitometer to do my calibrations. You can't afford $200? I saw a speedmaster on ebay...
> Is there point in trying to use > the zone system without calibrating? What about using a scanner as a > densitometer? Problems: 1. calibration; 2. signal to noise ratio; 3. negative densities are not linear. Densitometers are not like scanners and software. You never need to upgrade and if you have/can afford a scanner and computer you can afford a visual densitometer...
> We are thinking about getting a microtek scanmaker i900 > where I work - which boasts 48 bit / 4.2 max density. No such thing as a 48 bit scanner. And certainly no flat bed or CCD scanner can achieve a 4.2 D-max. 4.2 is in fact, ludicrous. 4.0 is a max density, and only a drum scanner can do that. Don't fall prey to marketing hype RE scanners.
The _quality_ of a scanner is measurable by it's _price_. I never saw a microtech scanner that could come close to a quality flat bed scanner, let alone a drum scanner. Cheap scanners have ceap components. Even if you somehow have 48 bits, the other cheap components can't handle it...
> So I would have > access to that, but I don't know much about the technicals of scanners [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > development adjustments with contrast filters? Or does it not work > that way? |
| Jed Savage | 24 Nov 2004 04:31 |
I've been reading about the zone system and I'd like to start experimenting with it... the only problem is I can't afford a densitometer to do my calibrations. Is there point in trying to use the zone system without calibrating? What about using a scanner as a densitometer? We are thinking about getting a microtek scanmaker i900 where I work - which boasts 48 bit / 4.2 max density. So I would have access to that, but I don't know much about the technicals of scanners - if 4.2 is good enough or not. I think it would work for negative scans since there is no glass, but I'm not sure about scanning prints.
Also, I shoot purely roll film right now... can I just substitute development adjustments with contrast filters? Or does it not work that way?
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