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Photo Forum / General Photo Topics / General Topics / August 2006

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microsoft photo editor: size reduction = ?

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cantueso - 23 Aug 2006 08:07 GMT
I have photos of a landscape that are 1.5 MB each, and I would like to
reduce them.
The menu says my photo is some 19 cm wide.
I set it to 15 cm, and this brings the size down to about 400 KB.

That is: a small reduction in centimeter size =  a very big reduction
in KB size.   Why?

Does it mean  a considerable reduction in quality, too?
Rob Novak - 23 Aug 2006 17:35 GMT
>That is: a small reduction in centimeter size =  a very big reduction
>in KB size.   Why?

Likely being re-saved with a higher compression setting.

>Does it mean  a considerable reduction in quality, too?

With JPEGs, yes.
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Central Maryland Photographer's Guild - http://www.cmpg.org
Strange, Geometrical Hinges - http://sgh.rnovak.net

cantueso - 24 Aug 2006 08:57 GMT
Rob Novak ha escrito:

> >That is: a small reduction in centimeter size =  a very big reduction
> >in KB size.   Why?
>
> Likely being re-saved with a higher compression setting.

I do not think so. I have never used any compression program.

> >Does it mean  a considerable reduction in quality, too?
>
> With JPEGs, yes.

But how is this reduction in quality perceived? Would the difference be
visible if the photo were viewed on a screen of about 20 x 30 cm =
about 8 x 12 inches?
(I have only photos of landscapes, especially with clouds.  I collect
them, love to look at them,  but I never make any myself.)

> --
> Central Maryland Photographer's Guild - http://www.cmpg.org
> Strange, Geometrical Hinges - http://sgh.rnovak.net
Marvin - 23 Aug 2006 17:36 GMT
> I have photos of a landscape that are 1.5 MB each, and I would like to
> reduce them.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Does it mean  a considerable reduction in quality, too?

Not enough detail to answer.  Was the original a .jpg file?
 Did you save it with higher compression, in the same
format ror a different format?  Did you change the color depth?

A photo is not a specific size in inches until it is printed
or displayed.  Its size is only the numbers of pixels in
height and width.  You software probably assumed the picture
is being viewed at a certian numbrer of pixels per inch;
often it is assumed to be 72 pixels per inch.
cantueso - 24 Aug 2006 08:42 GMT
Marvin ha escrito:

> > I have photos of a landscape that are 1.5 MB each, and I would like to
> > reduce them.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>   Did you save it with higher compression, in the same
> format ror a different format?  Did you change the color depth?

:-(

too technical. These photos are gifts. I never make any myself. They
are jpeg, and I look at them in that Microsoft photo editor; and there
is an option to "change size" in centimeters and in percentages.  I saw
something about pixels, too, but did not look at it. I will look now,
though.

> A photo is not a specific size in inches until it is printed
> or displayed.

!!!!!
I see. I am beginning to understand. It is probably as if I talked
about a book size in centimeters.

>   Its size is only the numbers of pixels in
> height and width.  You software probably assumed the picture
> is being viewed at a certian numbrer of pixels per inch;

yes
> often it is assumed to be 72 pixels per inch.

Thank you. I think I understand now.

 I thought that at 1.5 megas the photo would have to be displayed on a
very large screen; my impression was that, seen on a typical laptop
screen, things (the ground, the tree tops) start to look woolly, hairy,
as if made of felt or printed on a T-shirt,  and I thought that was
because too much colour was being crammed into too small a space.
Richard H. - 25 Aug 2006 04:48 GMT
> Marvin ha escrito:
>
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
> as if made of felt or printed on a T-shirt,  and I thought that was
> because too much colour was being crammed into too small a space.

Interesting interpretation. :-)  For your purposes, you might try
resizing in terms of pixels, since your goal is on-screen viewing.  That
will make them a more consistent size (e.g., Windows wallpaper is
commonly 1280x1024 or 1024x768).

<rambling>

Try this on for size (trying not to be too technical, but explain the
factors involved)...

Each pixel is a colored dot in the picture.  The physical size of the
image depends upon how the dots get used.

For example, photos squeeze 300 tiny pixels per inch, while a PC screen
uses about 72 larger pixels per inch.  So, the same number of pixels
will make a larger image on a PC screen than a print.  (But the
trade-off is that the individual dots are nearly imperceptible in the
print, which makes for a higher-quality image.)

So, pixels decide the height and width of an image.

Then there is "color depth", a range of numbers that describe the shade
of color for each pixel.  A wider range of numbers = more shades of
colors = more disk space required.  The game is to make the color depth
"rich enough" to look good, but not take too much disk space.

Lastly, there is compression, to make the files smaller.

File types like JPEG have built-in compression.  The game here is to
squeeze out enough information to make the file smaller, but not so much
that the image looks bad.  There are settings to control how aggressive
the compression is, with these trade-offs.

When you resize an image, it's very possible the tool is using higher
compression, and maybe also reducing the color depth.  This will make a
dramatically smaller file, but lose quality at the same time.

All that said, if you resize to the pixel dimensions above and select
"high quality" (e.g., little or no compression), you'll end up with
good-quality screen-sized images that you can use for PC wallpaper if
you like.

Cheers,
Richard
cantueso - 27 Aug 2006 16:26 GMT
> > Marvin ha escrito:
>
> Interesting interpretation. :-)

:-(
such as are mostly misleading, because  sooner or later they solidify
into
theories

> For your purposes, you might try
> resizing in terms of pixels, since your goal is on-screen viewing.  That
> will make them a more consistent size (e.g., Windows wallpaper is
> commonly 1280x1024 or 1024x768).

Good. This is good to begin with because it gives me an idea of the
magnitudes one deals with.

> <rambling>
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Each pixel is a colored dot in the picture.  The physical size of the
> image depends upon how the dots get used.

very good.

> For example, photos squeeze 300 tiny pixels per inch, while a PC screen
> uses about 72 larger pixels per inch.  So, the same number of pixels
> will make a larger image on a PC screen than a print.  (But the
> trade-off is that the individual dots are nearly imperceptible in the
> print, which makes for a higher-quality image.)

I see.

> So, pixels decide the height and width of an image.
>
> Then there is "color depth", a range of numbers that describe the shade
> of color for each pixel.  A wider range of numbers = more shades of
> colors = more disk space required.  The game is to make the color depth
> "rich enough" to look good, but not take too much disk space.

yes. I read some people here who seem to think that posterity will be
grateful for maximum size pictures.Maybe that is so with family photos.
 Mine are more for me to use as a picture book, for instance  to
remember summer when it is winter (and not vice-versa. This is Spain
and winter is ugly.)

> Lastly, there is compression, to make the files smaller.
>
> File types like JPEG have built-in compression.  The game here is to
> squeeze out enough information to make the file smaller, but not so much
> that the image looks bad.  There are settings to control how aggressive
> the compression is, with these trade-offs.

Maybe I won't need to do that. I would like to keep the collection down
to the size that I can easily review and get to know.

> When you resize an image, it's very possible the tool is using higher
> compression, and maybe also reducing the color depth.  This will make a
> dramatically smaller file, but lose quality at the same time.

> All that said, if you resize to the pixel dimensions above and select
> "high quality" (e.g., little or no compression), you'll end up with
> good-quality screen-sized images that you can use for PC wallpaper if
> you like.

Thank you very much. I will have to reread this, but I think I
undertstood it all.

> Cheers,
> Richard
 
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