Photo Forum / General Photo Topics / General Topics / April 2006
Need some help
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FoolsAndKings - 27 Apr 2006 10:16 GMT I'm pretty new to "serious" photography and was looking for any tips that might help me
As much as I like this picture
http://community.dcmag.co.uk/photos/foolsandkingss_gallery/images/165507/origina l.aspx
I feel that someone will be able to give me some tips on how to improve it the next time I try something like this.
Thanks for your help
mark.thomas.7@gmail.com - 27 Apr 2006 10:50 GMT My 2c? It's a nice shot..
.. but I'm a great believer in 'less is more'. In other words, what exactly was needed in that image? What did you want to say/show, and how much of what is in the image is necessary?
I would have tried for a lower angle (to get rid of that 'thing' in the background?), and maybe used a polariser (if you didn't) to get more disney-like colouring (for a shot like this, disney is good, I think!). I would also have tried to get in a little closer and maybe a little left and down, so that the flower at left became a little more central and to give it a bit more of a 'subject'.
But equally, backing off a bit and getting a row of similar flowers could work too..
And maybe a touch more contrast..
But that's just me. Someone else will probably give you a reversed opinion - just keep going, and if *you* like your images, that's good enough to start with..!
Mike G. - 27 Apr 2006 19:06 GMT > I'm pretty new to "serious" photography and was looking for any tips > that might help me [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Thanks for your help I too like your shot. And I agree with all that Mark suggested, especially about the 'thing' at the left, and the contrast. The polarizer might take care of the contrast issue.
Keep in mind that there is never a 'right' and 'wrong' in photography, just personal preferences. Some of the most spectacular shots break all of the rules.
Having said that, I would add that there are a number of 'time proven' axioms that often work. One is the rule of thirds, which says that features or elements of your shot that coincide with lines at 1/3 and 2/3 of both width and height often result in pleasing composition. Think of a tic-tac-toe grid on your shot. By pulling back just a small bit, and lowering your camera again just a tiny bit, you would end up with the flower line-to-sky interface at the lower third hor line, and each of the prominent upper flowers (or groups) would have been at the intersection of hor & vert lines (extra bonus points for that?). No guarantee this would improve the composition, since the shot is pretty sweet as is, but something to keep in mind.
Finally, I don't know if you're interested in post-processing your shots, but if so, I see a hint of red in the sky, so if you took out a tad of red, and also increased the contrast slightly, I would predict the sky would appear to brighten, and the flowers would have more 'pop'.
Overall, a neat shot. Keep taking lots of pictures.
FoolsAndKings - 27 Apr 2006 19:58 GMT Thanks for you comments, they are much appriciated.
I used a Hoya Cir-Polarizing filter, but I don't appear to get some of the richness in the picture that I have seen others get. The filter was around £20, but I saw others for 3 times that .. are they much better ?
I had a problem with the "thing" .. it was a fence, but the flowers were on an embankment and I was already laying flat, much to the amusement of passers by, but as a photographer I have learnt to have no shame if it means getting the shot I want.
I have started to take my pictures in RAW format so that I can do a bit of Post work on them, but I really don't like to mess with shots too much as it can sometimes end up a completely different shot to the one I took and I spend hours altering every shot.
Its a process that I'm going to have to work on, where to draw the line, and not to get too bogged down with cleaning it up, unless its not far off to start with.
At the moment I really enjoy taking the pictures and testing the camera (Canon Eos 350D) to see what I can get out of it. I can see the improvement already from when I first started with it last summer, and like all things .. Practice makes perfect.
Thanks
Alistair
http://www.foolsandkings.co.uk
Mike G. - 28 Apr 2006 02:06 GMT > Thanks for you comments, they are much appriciated. > > I used a Hoya Cir-Polarizing filter, but I don't appear to get some of > the richness in the picture that I have seen others get. The filter was > around £20, but I saw others for 3 times that .. are they much better > ? I don't think so in this case, but they are in other cases. Generally the more expensive polarizers are coated or multi-coated, and some of the very expensive ones are of exotic glass, such as German Schott glass, but mostly it's the coatings, which reduce internal reflections/flare, under adverse lighting conditions. Since you didn't seem to have flare problems in this photo, I don't think it was an issue here. More likely, it was the angle of the sun to the axis of your shot. There is an optimum angle (maybe 30 degrees?--Not sure) to get maximum 'richness', but you can't always control everything. I think those dramatic polarizer shots are at the optimum angle.
> I had a problem with the "thing" .. it was a fence, but the flowers > were on an embankment and I was already laying flat, much to the > amusement of passers by, but as a photographer I have learnt to have no > shame if it means getting the shot I want. I understand the issue. Again, you just can't control everything, but you do what you can. You are absolutely right in that having a camera gives you license to do all sorts of things that amuse non-photographers. Of course other photographers always understand, usually having been there themselves. Just stay away from infringing on others' rights, and keep things safe, and all else is fair game.
> I have started to take my pictures in RAW format so that I can do a bit > of Post work on them, but I really don't like to mess with shots too [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > line, and not to get too bogged down with cleaning it up, unless its > not far off to start with. Yes, you will evolve to a comfort level over time, but be forewarned that it is a moving target. Photography is such a diverse and expansive endeavor that there are a zillion tangents, most worth pursuing, if only time were limitless.
> At the moment I really enjoy taking the pictures and testing the camera > (Canon Eos 350D) to see what I can get out of it. I can see the > improvement already from when I first started with it last summer, and > like all things .. Practice makes perfect. Seeing progress is always rewarding. Keep on shooting - keep on enjoying.
Mike
Mike G. - 29 Apr 2006 02:20 GMT > There is an optimum angle (maybe 30 degrees?--Not sure) to get > maximum 'richness', but you can't always control everything. I think > those dramatic polarizer shots are at the optimum angle. I just read about this in another thread, and the consensus of opinion was that the optimum 'richness' occurs when the shot is perpendicular (90 degrees) to the direction of the sun's rays.
Mike
Celcius - 28 Apr 2006 16:30 GMT Hi Mike! I'm very interested in your advice, but I'm not quite sure I picture it right. Would it be to much to ask if you downloaded the photo, "photoshopped" it (or whatever) and post it on line so that we could see exactly what you're advising? As you know, a picture is worth a 1000 words. Thanks, Marcel
dj_nme - 28 Apr 2006 18:40 GMT > Hi Mike! > I'm very interested in your advice, but I'm not quite sure I picture it [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Thanks, > Marcel This is my version.
<http://members.iinet.net.au/~therealm/dj_nme/edited.jpg>
To give some idea as to how I would have framed the original image, I did some "digital fiction" with Photopaint: The sky has had the red taken out of it and has been recropped to make use of the "rule of thirds". Some extra foliage and sky has been added to make up the areas missing in the original picture on the left and right hand sides to make up the square image.
Celcius - 28 Apr 2006 23:52 GMT Thanks. Of course, the flowers are "more present", in this case and the sky not as overwhelming. Marcel
Mike G. - 29 Apr 2006 02:16 GMT > Hi Mike! > I'm very interested in your advice, but I'm not quite sure I picture it [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Thanks, > Marcel Hi Marcel,
I'm glad to see that dj_nme was able to post such a good illustration of the principle, since I unfortunately don't have any place to post binaries at the moment.
For a more general discussion of the rule of thirds, check out the following sites, or just Google on Rule of Thirds, which gave me over 19 million hits. These are just a couple from the first few pages.
Photography Techniques http://www.photozone.de/4Technique/compose/third.htm
The Third Rule (Better known as The Rule of Thirds) http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/digital_photography_and_editing/105980
Composition: The Rule of Thirds http://www.digicamhelp.com/what-is-the-rule-of-thirds/rule-of-thirds.htm
CameraHobby - e-Book on the Rule of Thirds, Chapter 15 http://www.camerahobby.com/Ebook-RuleThirds_Chapter15.htm
Basic Photography. The Rule of Thirds. http://www.silverlight.co.uk/tutorials/compose_expose/thirds.html
Mike
Celcius - 29 Apr 2006 12:40 GMT Thanks MIke. I new about "the rule of thirds", but sometimes, I'm not sure how it applies to a particular situation. Have a great week-end, Marcel
TheBreeze - 29 Apr 2006 13:23 GMT Keep in mind that the "rule of thirds" is a rule-of-thumb, not an iron law. If part of the photo is very "busy," it might need less than a third to look "right." Something very bright, with lots of contrast, and/or many details (busy) will attract the eye more, and you might want to reduce its prominence by assigning it less area in order to balance the shot.
Another reason why I like digital--I can crop and re-frame a shot later to make the balance more pleasing.
> Thanks MIke. > I new about "the rule of thirds", but sometimes, I'm not sure how it > applies to a particular situation. > Have a great week-end, > Marcel Paul Furman - 28 Apr 2006 15:20 GMT > I'm pretty new to "serious" photography and was looking for any tips > that might help me [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I feel that someone will be able to give me some tips on how to improve > it the next time I try something like this. The composition is not great. Lovely colors though so next time you see something eye catching like this try lots of different angles. Squat down, lay on your belly, rotate around the subject pay attention to the background, try with one featured flower, try different apertures for various blur effects, shoot from above at f/22 to show them rolling out to the background with the sky beyone all in crisp focus and another with just one flower in focus at f/2.8. Look at the patterns of how they are arranged, this has an arch of flowers but then there's another on the left & an angular row in the background: too complex & it's not going anywhere particular. Wait for a bee to come visit! Move them around & pose them if it gets a look you want. Endless possibilities.
Then spend some time at home chosing which ones are good compositions & think about why. Keep that in your head when you go out shooting again.
 Signature Paul Furman http://www.edgehill.net/1 Bay Natives http://www.baynatives.com
TheBreeze - 29 Apr 2006 13:17 GMT I'm expecting to see something out-of-focus in the distant background...say clouds. However, if I saw the shot with out-of-focus clouds, I reserve the right to change my mind and say it was fine without them!
> I'm pretty new to "serious" photography and was looking for any tips > that might help me > > As much as I like this picture http://community.dcmag.co.uk/photos/foolsandkingss_gallery/images/165507/ori ginal.aspx
> I feel that someone will be able to give me some tips on how to improve > it the next time I try something like this. > > Thanks for your help
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