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Photo Forum / General Photo Topics / General Topics / September 2005Help for an amateur
I'm by no means a newbie when it comes to photography, but when we're talking anything but pointing and shooting the camera, I'm lost. I've been shooting a lot of candids for friends whether it be at their children's birthday parties, weddings, bridal showers, BBQ's....anyway, I'm trying to learn a whole bunch of new things...and what I've found so far is that I LOVE my 50mm 1.8 lens! It's incredibly fast and I don't know what I would do without it. I am however running into a slight problem at all these indoor functions, which is that I dont' have all that much room between me and my subjects (it's a little too tele for me). I'm thinking I need another lens, maybe an 28-70mm or 18-35mm? So, here is my problem....they are very pricey! I have a $100 gift certificate to B&H photo which I am going to put towards a lens, but I don't know which one to get without breaking my bank! I've heard good things about the Tameron 28-70mm 2.8....has anyone else? I prefer shooting without a flash (even though I'm inside) because I hate distracting other people (I know, I'm a photographer, get over it...I can't.) BUT I would like to learn about slave flashes...someone that I met a few weeks ago mentioned the SB-800 external flash, but again, too expensive for me....can someone maybe chat with me a bit on flashes and what they are really for if you use them correctly? It's hard to get it all out in an e-mail, but I feel like I have so many questions and no one has the patience to really chat with me. I know you'll all probably rip me apart on here too...that's the way it goes, but maybe there is at least ONE nice person out there than can spread their knowledge to me! Thanks in advance. > I'm by no means a newbie when it comes to photography, but when we're > talking anything but pointing and shooting the camera, I'm lost. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Thanks in advance. Hey JR, Yes, the world is full of trolls... I do have to say in photography, You get what you pay for. Except that 50mm f/1.8.. God's gift to photography on a budget... Are you shooting film or digital? One subject at a time. My main flash, Canon speedlight 440EX, cost more than most film camera bodies. Well worth The $$'s. You might want to look at Sigma 17-35mm F2.8-4 EX DG About $500.00 I have never taken the cheap route in photography and been happy with my decision.... > One subject at a time. My main flash, Canon speedlight 440EX, cost more > than most film camera bodies. Well worth The $$'s. OK, you wasted a lot of money on an automatic hot shoe flash. WOW! I'm impressed. >> One subject at a time. My main flash, Canon speedlight 440EX, cost more >> than most film camera bodies. Well worth The $$'s. > > OK, you wasted a lot of money on an automatic hot shoe flash. WOW! I'm > impressed. Well, I wasn't trying to impress you Randall, That would be impossible. I see you still haven't come up with anything constructive to say. Off your meds still? Perhaps some Preparation H would improve your disposition.... Have you gotten laid lately? It's got to be something man, your just way too sour... Did you get the Mt. Rainer shots done yet? Did you get any good ones? BOYS!! Behave yourselves! There are guests watching!! >>> One subject at a time. My main flash, Canon speedlight 440EX, cost more >>> than most film camera bodies. Well worth The $$'s. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Did you get the Mt. Rainer shots done yet? Did you get any good ones? > Well, I wasn't trying to impress you Randall, That would be impossible. I > see you still haven't come up with anything constructive to say. Off your > meds still? Perhaps some Preparation H would improve your disposition.... > Have you gotten laid lately? It's got to be something man, your just way > too sour... The only automatic flashes I owned were a couple of 283's. One died and the other hasn't been fired in over 10 years so it probably doesn't work either. You want a *real* professional portable flash? Check out what Norman has to offer. > Did you get the Mt. Rainer shots done yet? Did you get any good ones? Well, one of these days I'll get my page updated. Since I'm not selling anything, I guess it's not real high on my list of things to get done. >> Well, I wasn't trying to impress you Randall, That would be impossible. >> I [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Well, one of these days I'll get my page updated. Since I'm not selling > anything, I guess it's not real high on my list of things to get done. Well, I don't use my flash much But when I do I have been extremely happy with the Canon. Normally used for personal stuff like photos of the grandkids or bouncing it off a white card for macro stuff. I have to say it has never given me a bad exposure. In my opinion the little flip internal flash is useless. A few shots using the 440EX, just for fun... http://www.usefilm.com/image/890647.html http://www.usefilm.com/image/888273.html http://www.usefilm.com/image/828549.html Feel free to rip me on them if you like... I like that idea for the spider shot. I'm gonna use that.... "DBLEXPOSURE" wrote > > Well, I don't use my flash much But when I do I have been extremely happy > with the Canon. Normally used for personal stuff like photos of the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Feel free to rip me on them if you like... Cool, I would like to see the results. Mine was done with a home made extension tube. Focus was an issue... The little SOB would hold still for me.. He was very small. Had him in a white film can, bounced the flash of the wall. the can made for a pretty good soft box. I am sure you could do better.. >I like that idea for the spider shot. I'm gonna use that.... > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >> >> Feel free to rip me on them if you like... >> One subject at a time. My main flash, Canon speedlight 440EX, cost more >> than most film camera bodies. Well worth The $$'s. > > OK, you wasted a lot of money on an automatic hot shoe flash. WOW! I'm > impressed. I went for the 420EX myself. Or at least my wife got me one for Christmas :-) I have to say that it is fabulous. Great results, no fuss, no startled subjects and no red eye. Far from a waste of money > I'm by no means a newbie when it comes to photography, but when we're > talking anything but pointing and shooting the camera, I'm lost. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > towards a lens, but I don't know which one to get without breaking my bank! > I've heard good things about the Tameron 28-70mm 2.8....has anyone else? JR, Hmmm... I think you're going to break the bank. :-) Actually, you can get as low as $140 for a short-zoom manual Vivitar or Phoenix. But you won't come close to f/1.8 in a zoom. Typically f/3.5 at the short end (lower only with a LOT more money). Also consider the range of your flash (when you use one) - will it cast wide enough for a wide lens? You mention the SB-800, so I'll guess you're shooting Nikon. B&H has several lenses in the range of 19-35mm f/3.5 that could be a good fit, though you'll find yourself changing lenses a lot, or using 2 bodies so you can catch the longer shots. There are a couple lenses for the Nikon digitals that offer a great range. I used a 18-70mm for two (!) indoor birthday parties yesterday, and found its range to be a _really_ good fit for in-home events. The short end is good for up-close shots where you're in the middle of the action (chaos); the long zoom was good for catching shots from across the room. I'll guess you're shooting film - for flashless and f/3.5, you need to shoot 400-800 film and keep the room well lit (open curtains) and use spot metering to overcome backlighting. If you happen to be using digital, look at Auto ISO adjustment. I gave it a go at this event to try flashless, and it works pretty well. Under certain circumstances, it'll adjust the ISO sensitivity to fix the exposure (like if you're already at max aperture, and the lowest acceptable shutter speed is still too dark). I really liked the results, because the ambient lighting made for much better depth / shadows (and it was less disruptive). > I prefer shooting without a flash (even though I'm inside) because I hate > distracting other people (I know, I'm a photographer, get over it...I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > e-mail, but I feel like I have so many questions and no one has the patience > to really chat with me. On flashes, I'm no whiz but I avoid using the on-camera strobe as primary light. The on-camera units are poorly positioned for a good image (hard shadows where you don't want them, no shadows where you'd like them, red eye angle - the subjects lack depth, and it looks like a snapshot). If the flash is used for fill, or you can position them better (a la studio setting), it's a lot different. Slave flashes are good for accent or fill light, but if you're moving around in the setting there's the hazard you'll end up pointing your camera at one. There was a recent post here that showed a budget studio setup using some cheap slaves for background: http://www.chromagreen.com/tut7.html http://www.chromagreen.com/tut4.html HTH, Richard >I've heard good things about the Tameron 28-70mm 2.8....has anyone else? Yes, I have heard great things about the Tamron. Which led me to buying one and led me to keep my belief that it is a steal. For the price, you can't get any better in a mid-range zoom. Actually, I don't think you can get any better for 2x the price...  SignatureAlex atheist #2007 Thanks for all your help! I appreciate it! I realize I didn't mention that I am shooting DIGITAL with a Nikon D70...I think I may try the Tamron 28-70mm 2.8 and see how that goes...maybe I'll even rent it from B&H for the weekend just to see. I'm no good when it comes to flash though, slave, master, fill, it's all foreign to me. I just learned the other day that I can use the flash on my D70 with a piece of white paper pointing the flash up and the picture comes out much softer...it's just a pain in the a#@ when I'm taking quick candids at, let's say...a wedding! Thanks again for your input! >>I've heard good things about the Tameron 28-70mm 2.8....has anyone else? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > For the price, you can't get any better in a mid-range zoom. Actually, > I don't think you can get any better for 2x the price... >I'm no good when it comes to flash though, slave, master, fill, it's all >foreign to me. I just learned the other day that I can use the flash on my >D70 with a piece of white paper pointing the flash up and the picture comes >out much softer...it's just a pain in the a#@ when I'm taking quick candids >at, let's say...a wedding! Maybe I'm missing something in the technique but that won't work at the ceremony (the actual "wedding") because the flash on your camera is too weak to bounce off the ceiling of the church and still illuminate your subject. The reception is a different story. SignatureAlex atheist #2007 > I realize I didn't mention that I am shooting DIGITAL with a Nikon D70... Yep, that helps a bit. > I may try the Tamron 28-70mm 2.8 and see how that goes...maybe I'll > even rent it from B&H for the weekend just to see. This 28-75mm for $390? http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=2 84402&is=REG It's a normal "full frame" lens, so its effective focal length on the D70 will be 1.5x the listed value (i.e., 42-108mm rather than 28-75mm). Now, the 50mm you're using is probably subject to the same factor; so this lens offers better range, but it's not much of a wide angle lens when used on a digital body. Keep in mind that your money will probably go further with a Nikon "DX" lens that's designed for digital body. These lenses are designed only for use with the smaller digital sensors, so they need to cast a smaller image (which translates to less glass / lighter / cheaper for similar effect). However, the DX lenses won't work well with a full-frame 35mm body (or future full-frame sensors, which seems likely to be the next generation). If you're in the $400 price range, I would really recommend the Nikon 18-70mm DX lens at $340. It's made for digital bodies, so its focal length rating doesn't get factored (i.e., it performs like 18-70mm, which will be a lot shorter than the 50mm [75mm] you're using now). This is the kit lens for the D70 bundle, and it's actually a really nice lens. (People expect a kit lens to be marginal, but this one's not.) http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=3 24190&is=USA > I'm no good when it comes to flash though, slave, master, fill, it's all > foreign to me. Now that we know you're using a D70... Turn on ISO Auto and set it to 1/30 or 1/60 for the cutoff speed (the slowest you can handhold, depending on the length of the lens attached). Run your camera at ISO 200 normally, and it'll auto-adjust the ISO if the light falls too low for the lowest possible aperture/shutter settings. The birthday parties I shot this weekend without flash were using the D70s, the above lens, and this feature turned on. It was my first time trying that setting, and the results are darned good. HTH, Richard >I'm by no means a newbie when it comes to photography, but when we're >talking anything but pointing and shooting the camera, I'm lost. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > >Thanks in advance. Well, you could look at the Tokina AF193 19-35mm f/3.5-4.5 (also often sold at Ritz camera under the "Quantaray" brand). http://tinyurl.com/bfw4o Sample pictures here http://www.pbase.com/cameras/tokina/af_193 It's a quirky lens but you can really get some sweet shots out of it if you can keep the aperture closed down a bit. It's pretty darn surprising for a $200 lens. Drifter "I've been here, I've been there..." |
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