Photo Forum / General Photo Topics / General Topics / July 2005
Recommendations for medium format camera
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Gary Stewart - 15 Jul 2005 23:06 GMT Hello group,
First post, so go easy on me. I am looking to buy a new(used) medium format camera off of e-bay. The quandary is this, I am a 35mm man and have no idea what to get. Firstly, I will be shooting calendar shoots and commercial projects. Secondly, I will shoot 90% or so in the studio and the rest on location. And finally, all the gear I have is for 35mm, can it be used for medium formats? Now, assume that I can get any brand at a good price, what would you get and why?
Thanks in advance
 Signature Gary Stewart Got The Look Photography & Model Consulting Allentown, Pa. 18109 610-432-5871 www.gotthelookpmc.com
RSD99 - 16 Jul 2005 02:19 GMT See rec.photo.equipment.medium-format rec.photo.marketplace.medium-format
> Hello group, > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > 610-432-5871 > www.gotthelookpmc.com Diverse Art - 16 Jul 2005 09:55 GMT > Now, assume that I can get any brand at a good price, what would you get > and why? This is always a personal choice and any advice you get will be tainted by personal prejudice, whatever the arguments put forward.
Personally, I'm a big fan of the Mamiya RZ-67. Maybe not quite as robust as a Hasselblad, but I love the 6x7 format. I shoot digital for most of my paying work, these days, but use the RZ whenever I shoot something for myself. I've used 'Blads a lot and the whole range is of exceptional quality, which means you may be slightly safer buying used kit. The 'Blad is also rather smaller than the RZ, which may be a factor if portability is important, though you say you'll mostly be in the studio. If you have the money, my ideal combo would be an RZ for the studio and a Mamiya 7 for location (they don't share lenses, alas, so it's a pricey combo).
You don't say precisely what 'gear' you have, but you may need a beefier tripod.
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b.ingraham@shaw.ca - 16 Jul 2005 14:51 GMT Mamiya RZ-67 or, cheaper and still wonderful, Mamiya RB-67. Heavy beast, so you'll need a really hefty tripod. Best thing about these cameras is the rotating back, and second best is the quick-change film holders to allow easy switching from color to B&W.
Given the speed of technological advances in digital photography, I wouldn't buy a new camera. Who knows how long it will be before digital medium format is affordable by ordinary mortals? Sooner rather than later, I suspect.
Bob
Matti Vuori - 16 Jul 2005 23:40 GMT b.ingraham@shaw.ca wrote in news:1121521911.880181.163210 @g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> Given the speed of technological advances in digital photography, I > wouldn't buy a new camera. Who knows how long it will be before digital > medium format is affordable by ordinary mortals? Sooner rather than > later, I suspect. It already is, for those who are professional photographers and have any kind of revenue. From this point of view, going directly to digital medium format might be the best choice, and a Hasselblad H1D or the new digital Mamiya (it may not be in stores yet) might be worthy of serious consideration.
A Mamiya 67 on the other hand might not be a good choice from the viewpoint of going to digital in the near future.
 Signature Matti Vuori, <http://sivut.koti.soon.fi/mvuori/index-e.htm>
dj_nme - 17 Jul 2005 02:35 GMT > b.ingraham@shaw.ca wrote in news:1121521911.880181.163210 > @g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > A Mamiya 67 on the other hand might not be a good choice from the > viewpoint of going to digital in the near future. A better idea in my way of thinking is don't bother going to digital mf. Buy a Canon EOS 1Ds II (or Kodak SLR/C or SLR/N) body and a few lenses for the price of just the price of a digital back for a medium format camera. The sensor is about the same size and the camera is smaller, lighter more portable than most of the digital mf solutions. I am not any-ones spokesperson, I just don't see the point of throwing vast sums of money at a problem that can be solved with slightly less outlay. A added bonus is that a vast line-up of 35mm SLR lenses can be used.
RSD99 - 17 Jul 2005 04:14 GMT "dj_nme" posted: "... Buy a Canon EOS 1Ds II (or Kodak SLR/C or SLR/N) body <snip> The sensor is about the same size ..."
Not true ... not by a long shot.
> > b.ingraham@shaw.ca wrote in news:1121521911.880181.163210 > > @g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > outlay. > A added bonus is that a vast line-up of 35mm SLR lenses can be used. Gary Stewart - 17 Jul 2005 03:51 GMT > It already is, for those who are professional photographers and have any > kind of revenue. From this point of view, going directly to digital [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > A Mamiya 67 on the other hand might not be a good choice from the > viewpoint of going to digital in the near future. Isn't the H1D going to run like $15,000 or more? One Hell of a wad o'cash to drop on a single piece of gear.
 Signature Gary Stewart Got The Look Photography & Model Consulting Allentown, Pa. 18109 610-432-5871 www.gotthelookpmc.com
Gary Stewart - 17 Jul 2005 03:49 GMT > Personally, I'm a big fan of the Mamiya RZ-67. Maybe not quite as robust > as a Hasselblad, but I love the 6x7 format. Why do you like the 6x7 as opposed to the 6x6?
 Signature Gary Stewart Got The Look Photography & Model Consulting Allentown, Pa. 18109 610-432-5871 www.gotthelookpmc.com
Diverse Art - 17 Jul 2005 09:32 GMT >> Personally, I'm a big fan of the Mamiya RZ-67. Maybe not quite as robust >> as a Hasselblad, but I love the 6x7 format. > > Why do you like the 6x7 as opposed to the 6x6? Just suits the shots I take. I generally find the square format to be a little deadening. The 6x7 format gives you the option of using a landscape or portrait format - which often adds a dynamic aspect to the image - without it being pronounced. Of course, you also have the option of cropping to a square format for those pictures where that might work (and Mamiya does a 6x6 back if you want to save film). The image size of the 6x7 allows a lot of flexibility on those lines without sacrificing quality.
The rotating back is wonderful. You can switch from landscape to portrait in a blink, without all that messing around you have to do with 35mm, as the body stays where it is.
Frankly, I love working with the Mamiya: I've been shooting for over 30 years now (since I was a teenager). Picked up a degree in photography along the way, where I shot everything from 35mm half-frame to 10x8in, worked briefly with an advertising photographer who shot 14x11in and have worked as a pro, to a greater or lesser extent (a chunk of my living is made as a journalist), since graduating. The Mamiya RZ is the camera that I've most enjoyed using. It's big and bulky enough that it demands a slow and often contemplative method of working. I don't use the metering prism - I shoot with the waist-level finder and a handheld meter and I really enjoy the very deliberate process it demands, which makes you think about the picture. That said, I've occasionally shot hand-held, mostly studio portraits using flash, but the odd landscape where I didn't have time to set up a tripod. It's not as hard as you might think, in spite of the camera's bulk.
There are digital backs available, all of which require that you sacrifice your first-born in order to afford them. Not being psychic, I don't know if the prices of such backs will fall. To be honest, where I want digital (mainly magazine editorial work), then the 6MP I'm currently getting from my D-SLR are good enough. I don't do advertising work where the client wants supersite posters, so I don't think I'd ever invest in MF digital. I shoot medium format because I like the quality of the image I get from film. However, I did invest in a Nikon Coolscan LS-9000 which can scan images up to 6x9 at 4000dpi. So all my best MF images are digitised. Takes extra time and effort, but that gives you the best of both worlds (and given the image size, you could get away with a less-expensive scanner: in fact, I tend to scan MF images at around 2000dpi, because that still produces an 80-100Mb file).
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Gary Stewart - 17 Jul 2005 16:46 GMT > Just suits the shots I take. Diverse,
I will be shooting commercial stuff (local businesses from florists to small manufacturers for brochures, business cards, catalogs, etc.) as well as inhouse produced calendars (hot womwn, fast cars and sweet bikes). I believe these would be satisfactory projects for the Mamiya RZ series? Or is there one inparticular to really go for or to really avoid?
 Signature Gary Stewart Got The Look Photography & Model Consulting Allentown, Pa. 18109 610-432-5871 www.gotthelookpmc.com
UC - 17 Jul 2005 16:55 GMT Hasselblad.
> > Just suits the shots I take. > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > 610-432-5871 > www.gotthelookpmc.com Diverse Art - 17 Jul 2005 21:35 GMT > I will be shooting commercial stuff (local businesses from florists to > small manufacturers for brochures, business cards, catalogs, etc.) as well > as inhouse produced calendars (hot womwn, fast cars and sweet bikes). > I believe these would be satisfactory projects for the Mamiya RZ series? > Or is there one inparticular to really go for or to really avoid? The RZ would be my first choice for that lot. There is only one current model, to my knowledge - the RZ-67 Pro II. I wouldn't go for earlier models - there were some issues but can't remember what they were!
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Randall Ainsworth - 17 Jul 2005 16:59 GMT > Why do you like the 6x7 as opposed to the 6x6? Through my professional career, I used both. I liked the large 6x7 negative. But the RB is strictly a studio camera and the big Pentax I didn't care for with weddings or in the studio. So when it came to an all-around, use-it-for-everything camera...I kept coming back to Hasselblad.
dj_nme - 16 Jul 2005 15:35 GMT > Hello group, > > First post, so go easy on me. I am looking to buy a new(used) medium format > camera off of e-bay. The quandary is this, I am a 35mm man and have no idea > what to get. Something like a Kiev 60 TTL or Pentacon Six (both share a lensmount) or perhaps a Pentax 67 (_not_ k-mount compatible!) would make you feel pretty much at home. They all handle like slightly heavy 35mm SLR cameras, but (of course) take 120 roll film.
> Firstly, I will be shooting calendar shoots and commercial > projects. Secondly, I will shoot 90% or so in the studio and the rest on > location. And finally, all the gear I have is for 35mm, can it be used for > medium formats? Everything except your camera bodies and lenses should be compatible with whatever mf camera gear you get. All of your auto-exposure flashguns will probably have to be used in manual mode. You might need to get a 3/8" tripod socket adapter to use your current tripods or monopods.
> Now, assume that I can get any brand at a good price, what would you get and > why? Value for money wise, I think that the Ukranian-made Kiev 60 TTL is pretty good. If you are left handed, I would recommend the Kiev 6C, because it has the shutter release on the left hand side (It is otherwise idental to the Kiev 60, with the wind lever on the right).
b.ingraham@shaw.ca - 30 Jul 2005 04:40 GMT Gary Stewart asked, "Why do you like the 6x7 as opposed to the 6x6?"
I personally like square images a great deal. Must have to do with my reputation in high school. :^) However, if you crop a 6X6 cm for an 8"X10" or 4"X5" print, or any other print of similar proportions, you are going to be enlarging what is effectively a 6 X 4.5 cm negative. The difference between 6X7 cm and 4.5 X 6 cm is amazing. Work it out: the 6X7 cm negative is more than 50% bigger, meaning 50 less grain, 50% greater apparent sharpness, and better color saturation. And if you need to crop, you're still better off.
For most photos, of course, the difference is insignificant. For critical work, I'd go for 6X7, and would like to shoot 8X10" large format.
Bob
UC - 17 Jul 2005 16:34 GMT Hasselblad. If you even think of anything else, you'll get leprosy....
> Hello group, > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > 610-432-5871 > www.gotthelookpmc.com Wiseguy - 18 Jul 2005 06:55 GMT "UC" <uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com> scribbled on the stall wall:
> Hasselblad. If you even think of anything else, you'll get leprosy.... And if you even think of trying to buy additional lenses you'll end up in the poor house.
I'm a 501 owner and I certainly cannot afford lenses other than the 80mm that is on it. Hell, I cannot even find anyone here in western pennsyltucky who will sell or process 120 roll films.
If I had it to do over I would have bought an RZ67 Mamiya used and chanced that the leaf shutters in the lenses were still good (a problem with used lenses of that type)
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Diverse Art - 18 Jul 2005 14:12 GMT > If I had it to do over I would have bought an RZ67 Mamiya used and chanced > that the leaf shutters in the lenses were still good (a problem with used > lenses of that type) Good point about the leaf shutters. This is less of a problem with the later RZ lenses, compared to the RB lenses, because they're electronically timed. But I would always buy lenses from a reputable dealer offering warranties if buying secondhand.
Of course, one advantage of Mamiya over Hasselblad is the extra affordability of *new* lenses. A quick check at Robert White shows a Mamiya RZ 150mm f/3.5 costs £604 new. A Hasselblad CFi 150mm f/4 costs £1407.
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UC - 18 Jul 2005 17:10 GMT > "UC" <uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com> scribbled on the stall wall: > > Hasselblad. If you even think of anything else, you'll get leprosy.... > > And if you even think of trying to buy additional lenses you'll end up in the > poor house. Bullshit. They last forever.....
> I'm a 501 owner and I certainly cannot afford lenses other than the 80mm that is > on it. Get a better job, moron!
> Hell, I cannot even find anyone here in western pennsyltucky who will > sell or process 120 roll films. Support your local pro lab....
> If I had it to do over I would have bought an RZ67 Mamiya used and chanced that > the leaf shutters in the lenses were still good (a problem with used lenses of > that type) Cough......
> -- > There are no interpersonal problems that cannot be solved with a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups > ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- Wiseguy - 18 Jul 2005 18:21 GMT "UC" <uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com> scribbled on the stall wall:
>> "UC" <uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com> scribbled on the stall wall: >> > Hasselblad. If you even think of anything else, you'll get leprosy.... [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Get a better job, moron! *PLONK!*
>> -- >> There are no interpersonal problems that cannot be solved with a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups >> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
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-anything after the next line is ANNOYING CRAP that newsfeeds adds- -directly contact newsfeeds and ISPs that piggy back them to complain-
UC - 18 Jul 2005 18:42 GMT > "UC" <uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com> scribbled on the stall wall: > > Hasselblad. If you even think of anything else, you'll get leprosy.... [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > the leaf shutters in the lenses were still good (a problem with used lenses of > that type) In other words, you're cheap. Go f.ck your cat....
Owamanga - 18 Jul 2005 18:49 GMT >In other words, you're cheap. Go f.ck your cat.... Okay, you've used that phrase 263 times now. From now on, you can use the acronym GFYC, we'll know what you mean.
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UC - 18 Jul 2005 23:26 GMT That many times? I thought it was less...
How about 'feline amorist'?
> >In other words, you're cheap. Go f.ck your cat.... > > Okay, you've used that phrase 263 times now. From now on, you can use > the acronym GFYC, we'll know what you mean. Owamanga - 19 Jul 2005 12:54 GMT >> >In other words, you're cheap. Go f.ck your cat.... >> >> Okay, you've used that phrase 263 times now. From now on, you can use >> the acronym GFYC, we'll know what you mean. > >That many times? I thought it was less... Internet statistic, you just can't trust 'em.
>How about 'feline amorist'? Somewhat lacking in impact wouldn't you say?
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UC - 19 Jul 2005 14:36 GMT > >> >In other words, you're cheap. Go f.ck your cat.... > >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Somewhat lacking in impact wouldn't you say? Well, yes, but it's subtler.
Most people would not know that 'feline amorist' means 'cat f.cker'.
steve b - 21 Jul 2005 17:22 GMT Hnads down for PRICE, Pentax 645 or better yet 645N. NO DOUBT for the price it's one of the better deal. And the Pentax lenses???? Can't go wrong. UNLESS you have thousands of dollars to spend rather than hundreds. Then hell, just buy NEW!!! Sorry the numb minded folks like to go off on here. Scan over the bull and there is GREAT advice from greater folks here. Steve
>> >> >In other words, you're cheap. Go f.ck your cat.... >> >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Most people would not know that 'feline amorist' means 'cat f.cker'. UC - 21 Jul 2005 17:29 GMT If you buy anything other than Hasselblad, you'll regret it.
> Hnads down for PRICE, Pentax 645 or better yet 645N. NO DOUBT for the price > it's one of the better deal. And the Pentax lenses???? Can't go wrong. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > > >Most people would not know that 'feline amorist' means 'cat f.cker'.
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