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Photo Forum / General Photo Topics / General Topics / July 2005

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Recommendations for medium format camera

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Gary Stewart - 15 Jul 2005 23:06 GMT
Hello group,

First post, so go easy on me. I am looking to buy a new(used) medium format
camera off of e-bay. The quandary is this, I am a 35mm man and have no idea
what to get. Firstly, I will be shooting calendar shoots and commercial
projects. Secondly, I will shoot 90% or so in the studio and the rest on
location. And finally, all the gear I have is for 35mm, can it be used for
medium formats?
Now, assume that I can get any brand at a good price, what would you get and
why?

Thanks in advance
Signature

Gary Stewart
Got The Look Photography & Model Consulting
Allentown, Pa. 18109
610-432-5871
www.gotthelookpmc.com

RSD99 - 16 Jul 2005 02:19 GMT
See
rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
rec.photo.marketplace.medium-format

> Hello group,
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> 610-432-5871
> www.gotthelookpmc.com
Diverse Art - 16 Jul 2005 09:55 GMT
> Now, assume that I can get any brand at a good price, what would you get
> and why?

This is always a personal choice and any advice you get will be tainted by
personal prejudice, whatever the arguments put forward.

Personally, I'm a big fan of the Mamiya RZ-67. Maybe not quite as robust as
a Hasselblad, but I love the 6x7 format. I shoot digital for most of my
paying work, these days, but use the RZ whenever I shoot something for
myself. I've used 'Blads a lot and the whole range is of exceptional
quality, which means you may be slightly safer buying used kit. The 'Blad
is also rather smaller than the RZ, which may be a factor if portability is
important, though you say you'll mostly be in the studio. If you have the
money, my ideal combo would be an RZ for the studio and a Mamiya 7 for
location (they don't share lenses, alas, so it's a pricey combo).

You don't say precisely what 'gear' you have, but you may need a beefier
tripod.

Signature

www.diverse-art.com

b.ingraham@shaw.ca - 16 Jul 2005 14:51 GMT
Mamiya RZ-67 or, cheaper and still wonderful, Mamiya RB-67. Heavy
beast, so you'll need a really hefty tripod. Best thing about these
cameras is the rotating back, and second best is the quick-change film
holders to allow easy switching from color to B&W.

Given the speed of technological advances in digital photography, I
wouldn't buy a new camera. Who knows how long it will be before digital
medium format is affordable by ordinary mortals? Sooner rather than
later, I suspect.

Bob
Matti Vuori - 16 Jul 2005 23:40 GMT
b.ingraham@shaw.ca wrote in news:1121521911.880181.163210
@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> Given the speed of technological advances in digital photography, I
> wouldn't buy a new camera. Who knows how long it will be before digital
> medium format is affordable by ordinary mortals? Sooner rather than
> later, I suspect.

It already is, for those who are professional photographers and have any
kind of revenue. From this point of view, going directly to digital
medium format might be the best choice, and a Hasselblad H1D or the new
digital Mamiya (it may not be in stores yet) might be worthy of serious
consideration.

A Mamiya 67 on the other hand might not be a good choice from the
viewpoint of going to digital in the near future.

Signature

Matti Vuori, <http://sivut.koti.soon.fi/mvuori/index-e.htm>

dj_nme - 17 Jul 2005 02:35 GMT
> b.ingraham@shaw.ca wrote in news:1121521911.880181.163210
> @g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> A Mamiya 67 on the other hand might not be a good choice from the
> viewpoint of going to digital in the near future.

A better idea in my way of thinking is don't bother going to digital mf.
Buy a Canon EOS 1Ds II (or Kodak SLR/C or SLR/N) body and a few lenses
for the price of just the price of a digital back for a medium format
camera.
The sensor is about the same size and the camera is smaller, lighter
more portable than most of the digital mf solutions.
I am not any-ones spokesperson, I just don't see the point of throwing
vast sums of money at a problem that can be solved with slightly less
outlay.
A added bonus is that a vast line-up of 35mm SLR lenses can be used.
RSD99 - 17 Jul 2005 04:14 GMT
"dj_nme"  posted:
"...
Buy a Canon EOS 1Ds II (or Kodak SLR/C or SLR/N) body
<snip>
The sensor is about the same size
..."

Not true ... not by a long shot.

> > b.ingraham@shaw.ca wrote in news:1121521911.880181.163210
> > @g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> outlay.
> A added bonus is that a vast line-up of 35mm SLR lenses can be used.
Gary Stewart - 17 Jul 2005 03:51 GMT
> It already is, for those who are professional photographers and have any
> kind of revenue. From this point of view, going directly to digital
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> A Mamiya 67 on the other hand might not be a good choice from the
> viewpoint of going to digital in the near future.

Isn't the H1D going to run like $15,000 or more? One Hell of a wad o'cash to
drop on a single piece of gear.
Signature

Gary Stewart
Got The Look Photography & Model Consulting
Allentown, Pa. 18109
610-432-5871
www.gotthelookpmc.com

Gary Stewart - 17 Jul 2005 03:49 GMT
> Personally, I'm a big fan of the Mamiya RZ-67. Maybe not quite as robust
> as a Hasselblad, but I love the 6x7 format.

Why do you like the 6x7 as opposed to the 6x6?
Signature

Gary Stewart
Got The Look Photography & Model Consulting
Allentown, Pa. 18109
610-432-5871
www.gotthelookpmc.com

Diverse Art - 17 Jul 2005 09:32 GMT
>> Personally, I'm a big fan of the Mamiya RZ-67. Maybe not quite as robust
>> as a Hasselblad, but I love the 6x7 format.
>
> Why do you like the 6x7 as opposed to the 6x6?

Just suits the shots I take. I generally find the square format to be a
little deadening. The 6x7 format gives you the option of using a landscape
or portrait format - which often adds a dynamic aspect to the image -
without it being pronounced. Of course, you also have the option of
cropping to a square format for those pictures where that might work (and
Mamiya does a 6x6 back if you want to save film). The image size of the 6x7
allows a lot of flexibility on those lines without sacrificing quality.

The rotating back is wonderful. You can switch from landscape to portrait in
a blink, without all that messing around you have to do with 35mm, as the
body stays where it is.

Frankly, I love working with the Mamiya: I've been shooting for over 30
years now (since I was a teenager). Picked up a degree in photography along
the way, where I shot everything from 35mm half-frame to 10x8in, worked
briefly with an advertising photographer who shot 14x11in and have worked
as a pro, to a greater or lesser extent (a chunk of my living is made as a
journalist), since graduating. The Mamiya RZ is the camera that I've most
enjoyed using. It's big and bulky enough that it demands a slow and often
contemplative method of working. I don't use the metering prism - I shoot
with the waist-level finder and a handheld meter and I really enjoy the
very deliberate process it demands, which makes you think about the
picture. That said, I've occasionally shot hand-held, mostly studio
portraits using flash, but the odd landscape where I didn't have time to
set up a tripod. It's not as hard as you might think, in spite of the
camera's bulk.

There are digital backs available, all of which require that you sacrifice
your first-born in order to afford them. Not being psychic, I don't know if
the prices of such backs will fall. To be honest, where I want digital
(mainly magazine editorial work), then the 6MP I'm currently getting from
my D-SLR are good enough. I don't do advertising work where the client
wants supersite posters, so I don't think I'd ever invest in MF digital. I
shoot medium format because I like the quality of the image I get from
film. However, I did invest in a Nikon Coolscan LS-9000 which can scan
images up to 6x9 at 4000dpi. So all my best MF images are digitised. Takes
extra time and effort, but that gives you the best of both worlds (and
given the image size, you could get away with a less-expensive scanner: in
fact, I tend to scan MF images at around 2000dpi, because that still
produces an 80-100Mb file).

Signature

www.diverse-art.com

Gary Stewart - 17 Jul 2005 16:46 GMT
> Just suits the shots I take.

Diverse,

I will be shooting commercial stuff (local businesses from florists to small
manufacturers for brochures, business cards, catalogs, etc.) as well as
inhouse produced calendars (hot womwn, fast cars and sweet bikes).
I believe these would be satisfactory projects for the Mamiya RZ series? Or
is there one inparticular to really go for or to really avoid?

Signature

Gary Stewart
Got The Look Photography & Model Consulting
Allentown, Pa. 18109
610-432-5871
www.gotthelookpmc.com

UC - 17 Jul 2005 16:55 GMT
Hasselblad.

> > Just suits the shots I take.
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> 610-432-5871
> www.gotthelookpmc.com
Diverse Art - 17 Jul 2005 21:35 GMT
> I will be shooting commercial stuff (local businesses from florists to
> small manufacturers for brochures, business cards, catalogs, etc.) as well
> as inhouse produced calendars (hot womwn, fast cars and sweet bikes).
> I believe these would be satisfactory projects for the Mamiya RZ series?
> Or is there one inparticular to really go for or to really avoid?

The RZ would be my first choice for that lot. There is only one current
model, to my knowledge - the RZ-67 Pro II. I wouldn't go for earlier models
- there were some issues but can't remember what they were!

Signature

www.diverse-art.com

Randall Ainsworth - 17 Jul 2005 16:59 GMT
> Why do you like the 6x7 as opposed to the 6x6?

Through my professional career, I used both. I liked the large 6x7
negative. But the RB is strictly a studio camera and the big Pentax I
didn't care for with weddings or in the studio.
So when it came to an all-around, use-it-for-everything camera...I kept
coming back to Hasselblad.
dj_nme - 16 Jul 2005 15:35 GMT
> Hello group,
>
> First post, so go easy on me. I am looking to buy a new(used) medium format
> camera off of e-bay. The quandary is this, I am a 35mm man and have no idea
> what to get.

Something like a Kiev 60 TTL or Pentacon Six (both share a lensmount) or
perhaps a Pentax 67 (_not_ k-mount compatible!) would make you feel
pretty much at home.
They all handle like slightly heavy 35mm SLR cameras, but (of course)
take 120 roll film.

> Firstly, I will be shooting calendar shoots and commercial
> projects. Secondly, I will shoot 90% or so in the studio and the rest on
> location. And finally, all the gear I have is for 35mm, can it be used for
> medium formats?

Everything except your camera bodies and lenses should be compatible
with whatever mf camera gear you get.
All of your auto-exposure flashguns will probably have to be used in
manual mode.
You might need to get a 3/8" tripod socket adapter to use your current
tripods or monopods.

> Now, assume that I can get any brand at a good price, what would you get and
> why?

Value for money wise, I think that the Ukranian-made Kiev 60 TTL is
pretty good.
If you are left handed, I would recommend the Kiev 6C, because it has
the shutter release on the left hand side (It is otherwise idental to
the Kiev 60, with the wind lever on the right).
b.ingraham@shaw.ca - 30 Jul 2005 04:40 GMT
Gary Stewart asked, "Why do you like the 6x7 as opposed to the 6x6?"

I personally like square images a great deal. Must have to do with my
reputation in high school. :^)
However, if you crop a 6X6 cm for an  8"X10" or 4"X5" print, or any
other print of similar proportions, you are going to be enlarging what
is effectively a 6 X 4.5 cm negative. The difference between 6X7 cm and
4.5 X 6 cm is amazing. Work it out: the 6X7 cm negative is more than
50% bigger, meaning 50 less grain, 50% greater apparent sharpness, and
better color saturation. And if you need to crop, you're still better
off.

For most photos, of course, the difference is insignificant. For
critical work, I'd go for 6X7, and would like to shoot 8X10" large
format.

Bob
UC - 17 Jul 2005 16:34 GMT
Hasselblad. If you even think of anything else, you'll get leprosy....

> Hello group,
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> 610-432-5871
> www.gotthelookpmc.com
Wiseguy - 18 Jul 2005 06:55 GMT
"UC" <uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com> scribbled on the stall wall:
> Hasselblad. If you even think of anything else, you'll get leprosy....

And if you even think of trying to buy additional lenses you'll end up in the
poor house.

I'm a 501 owner and I certainly cannot afford lenses other than the 80mm that is
on it.  Hell, I cannot even find anyone here in western pennsyltucky who will
sell or process 120 roll films.

If I had it to do over I would have bought an RZ67 Mamiya used and chanced that
the leaf shutters in the lenses were still good (a problem with used lenses of
that type)



Signature

There are no interpersonal problems that cannot be solved with a
suitable application of the laws of chemistry.

-anything after the next line is ANNOYING CRAP that newsfeeds adds-
-directly contact newsfeeds and ISPs that piggy back them to complain-

Diverse Art - 18 Jul 2005 14:12 GMT
> If I had it to do over I would have bought an RZ67 Mamiya used and chanced
> that the leaf shutters in the lenses were still good (a problem with used
> lenses of that type)

Good point about the leaf shutters. This is less of a problem with the later
RZ lenses, compared to the RB lenses, because they're electronically timed.
But I would always buy lenses from a reputable dealer offering warranties
if buying secondhand.

Of course, one advantage of Mamiya over Hasselblad is the extra
affordability of *new* lenses. A quick check at Robert White shows a Mamiya
RZ 150mm f/3.5 costs £604 new. A Hasselblad CFi 150mm f/4 costs £1407.

Signature

www.diverse-art.com

UC - 18 Jul 2005 17:10 GMT
> "UC" <uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com> scribbled on the stall wall:
> > Hasselblad. If you even think of anything else, you'll get leprosy....
>
> And if you even think of trying to buy additional lenses you'll end up in the
> poor house.

Bullshit. They last forever.....

> I'm a 501 owner and I certainly cannot afford lenses other than the 80mm that is
> on it.

Get a better job, moron!

> Hell, I cannot even find anyone here in western pennsyltucky who will
> sell or process 120 roll films.

Support your local pro lab....

> If I had it to do over I would have bought an RZ67 Mamiya used and chanced that
> the leaf shutters in the lenses were still good (a problem with used lenses of
> that type)

Cough......

> --
> There are no interpersonal problems that cannot be solved with a
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
Wiseguy - 18 Jul 2005 18:21 GMT
"UC" <uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com> scribbled on the stall wall:

>> "UC" <uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com> scribbled on the stall wall:
>> > Hasselblad. If you even think of anything else, you'll get leprosy....
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Get a better job, moron!

*PLONK!*

>> --
>> There are no interpersonal problems that cannot be solved with a
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
>> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Signature

There are no interpersonal problems that cannot be solved with a
suitable application of the laws of chemistry.

-anything after the next line is ANNOYING CRAP that newsfeeds adds-
-directly contact newsfeeds and ISPs that piggy back them to complain-

UC - 18 Jul 2005 18:42 GMT
> "UC" <uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com> scribbled on the stall wall:
> > Hasselblad. If you even think of anything else, you'll get leprosy....
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> the leaf shutters in the lenses were still good (a problem with used lenses of
> that type)

In other words, you're cheap. Go f.ck your cat....
Owamanga - 18 Jul 2005 18:49 GMT
>In other words, you're cheap. Go f.ck your cat....

Okay, you've used that phrase 263 times now. From now on, you can use
the acronym GFYC, we'll know what you mean.

Signature

Owamanga!
http://www.pbase.com/owamanga

UC - 18 Jul 2005 23:26 GMT
That many times? I thought it was less...

How about 'feline amorist'?

> >In other words, you're cheap. Go f.ck your cat....
>
> Okay, you've used that phrase 263 times now. From now on, you can use
> the acronym GFYC, we'll know what you mean.
Owamanga - 19 Jul 2005 12:54 GMT
>> >In other words, you're cheap. Go f.ck your cat....
>>
>> Okay, you've used that phrase 263 times now. From now on, you can use
>> the acronym GFYC, we'll know what you mean.
>
>That many times? I thought it was less...

Internet statistic, you just can't trust 'em.

>How about 'feline amorist'?

Somewhat lacking in impact wouldn't you say?

Signature

Owamanga!
http://www.pbase.com/owamanga

UC - 19 Jul 2005 14:36 GMT
> >> >In other words, you're cheap. Go f.ck your cat....
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Somewhat lacking in impact wouldn't you say?

Well, yes, but it's subtler.

Most people would not know that 'feline amorist' means 'cat f.cker'.
steve b - 21 Jul 2005 17:22 GMT
Hnads down for PRICE,  Pentax 645 or better yet 645N. NO DOUBT for the price
it's one of the better deal. And the Pentax lenses????  Can't go wrong.
UNLESS you have thousands of dollars to spend rather than hundreds. Then hell,
just buy NEW!!!  Sorry the numb minded folks like to go off on here. Scan
over the bull and there is GREAT advice from greater folks here.  Steve

>> >> >In other words, you're cheap. Go f.ck your cat....
>> >>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>Most people would not know that 'feline amorist' means 'cat f.cker'.
UC - 21 Jul 2005 17:29 GMT
If you buy anything other than Hasselblad, you'll regret it.

> Hnads down for PRICE,  Pentax 645 or better yet 645N. NO DOUBT for the price
> it's one of the better deal. And the Pentax lenses????  Can't go wrong.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> >
> >Most people would not know that 'feline amorist' means 'cat f.cker'.
 
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