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Photo Forum / General Photo Topics / General Topics / May 2005

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Tips for newbies

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Travis Newbury - 21 May 2005 23:02 GMT
This is probably a big "duh" for everyone but the newbies, but I have to
share it with everyone.  Here is the best piece of advice anyone in this
group will give you.

"shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot!"

Especially if you have a digital where taking pictures is basically
free.  I just got a digital rebel xt and 2 lenses (18-55and 75-300)  In
just under 2 weeks I have shot over 3500 pictures. Today alone I took
300 of my daughter in a sprinkler.  Of that 300, I have 3 awesome
keepers that are (personal opinion) just fantastic shots of my daughter.

The only way to learn is to shoot!
Signature

-=tn=-

Craig Marston - 21 May 2005 23:58 GMT
> This is probably a big "duh" for everyone but the newbies, but I have to
> share it with everyone.  Here is the best piece of advice anyone in this
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> The only way to learn is to shoot!

Well, if you throw enough sh.t at the wall some of it will stick! If you're
wanting to learn about photography it's not good practice to just fire away
in the hope that you might just get something useable - obviously if you're
photographing sports it's a little different. Yes do get out there and take
photos and have fun but think about what you're doing too so that you can
remember for next time in order to improve your skills. If you were to just
shoot wildly (I'm not implying that you did Travis) you won't learn a thing
other than familiarity your image browser and editing software!!

BTW even if you're shooting on film, it's relatively cheap compared to the
value of capturing the moment.

Overall, get out there and have fun!

Craig.
Piemanlager - 22 May 2005 00:30 GMT
> This is probably a big "duh" for everyone but the newbies, but I have to
> share it with everyone.  Here is the best piece of advice anyone in this
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> The only way to learn is to shoot!

Here is another tip I was given by a good friend just after I started.
Imagine every shot you take will cost you £10 to have developed and printed.
It soon stops you wasting your time taking 300 shots to get 3 good ones!
Travis Newbury - 22 May 2005 05:14 GMT
>>daughter in a sprinkler.  Of that 300, I have 3 awesome keepers that are
>>(personal opinion) just fantastic shots of my daughter.
>>The only way to learn is to shoot!
> Here is another tip I was given by a good friend just after I started.
> Imagine every shot you take will cost you £10 to have developed and printed.
> It soon stops you wasting your time taking 300 shots to get 3 good ones!

I didn't say good ones.  I said fantastic ones.

Signature

-=tn=-

Tom Ellliott - 22 May 2005 01:57 GMT
There are many paths for a newbe to take in order to learn photography and
eventually become a photographer.
In my case I could not talk about my job in the USAFSS so I took holiday
pictures with the $10.00 twin lense Ansco box camera my Dad gave me before I
left for four years in Europe.
I did typical tourist shots and then, at the time did not know, was a street
photographer snapping away at the "natives" during Octoberfest and other
uniquely European holidays. Pushed the camera to its limits and bought my
first serious camera .... a RolicordVa which I still have (1957 the year I
bougth it). I learned all the tech stuff in the base photolab from the
German who was hired to run it.
After my tour of duty I went to The Art Center College of Design, before it
moved to Pasadena (and much cheaper). While going to school I worked as an
assistant for Sheedy and Long Photography. They had the ABC-TV publicity
account and were stringers for Sports Illustrated.
After being production manager on Dateline: Hollywood, I moved to New York
and was Arnold Newmans assistant for a year and then went out on my own.
All during those formative years, if any of my friends saw me without a
camera they assumed I didn't feel well, which was not too far from the truth
for when sick I did not make/take photos.
The only time I got .... drunk or partied ... was if someone else foot the
bill for ALL available funds went into my photography. I always had my own
darkroom even if it meant painting the windows with black paint so I could
make prints in the bedroom/livingroom/bathroom.
I really love photography and with the coming of the digital age the biggest
problem choosing what project I want to do .... digital video ... digital
stills .... anything having to do with making images.
My mom is a writer and we are going to make one of her short stories into a
short film.
This is my web site: http://www.tom-elliott-photography.com. There are
photos from all of the above periods and my commercial assignments.
As to choosing one or two shots to conserve film, well that is a valuable
techneique. In Art Center you were not permitted to do anyassignments on
anything smaller than 4x5. In your senior year you could use something
smaller. 4x5 view cameras are not the fastest thing and you have to slow
down and be very methodical. They restricted you to one film, one film
chemical, one paper grade, one serface. SuperXX, DK50, Single Weight Glossy
Bromide, Grade 2. Not a forgiving combination. Everyones work was displayed
at the same time. A great learning experience.
The main thing is to do what your heart wants and needs. Shoot for your
heart, if you don't you will die. Your death can be slow and painfull or
quick, but you will die. Yes you do have to pay the rent ... however
consider shooting for your heart one of the most important things to do,
like eating and breathing.
Yours,
Tom

> This is probably a big "duh" for everyone but the newbies, but I have to
> share it with everyone.  Here is the best piece of advice anyone in this
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> The only way to learn is to shoot!
dadiOH - 22 May 2005 02:04 GMT
>  I moved to New
> York and was Arnold Newmans assistant for a year

Now *that* would have been an experience!  His portrait of Krupp is one
that has been in my head for decades...

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
Tom Ellliott - 25 May 2005 22:41 GMT
To dadiOH,
Arnold shared that experience with me, he is a great story teller. He had to
hide the test polaroids from Krupps .... thugs ..... no one in Germany saw
the finished shoot untill it was published. Arnold for a long time after was
a person non grata. He did not want to go do the photo of Krupp in the first
place. When he was told he could do anything he wanted, he went. He broke
all the "rules" 1: cross lit creating dark light trap holes in the eyes. 2:
Wide angle lens close distorting the head and 3: Did not color balance so
that the green industrial lights gave that "green monster" color to the skin
tones.
He did go back to Germany once more and photographed the NEW Reitchstage.
Not a flattering group photo. Most of them were the favored ones in Hitlers
Reiststage. I guess the US Government felt that they were a known entity and
thus controllable.
Arnold was tough during working hours, but at breaks he shared alot. He
closely supervised the making of prints. Very frustraiting because he would
come into the darkroom and re-arrange the workflow the way he wanted it if
he was making the prints. I finally, gently, grabbed his shoulders, turned
him around and pushed him out the darkroom door saying, "Arnold, get out of
my darkroom!" Looking over his shoulder with twinkling eyes, cigar in his
mouth, said, "Ok, it is yours." He was contstantly testing me to see if I
really wanted to be there, much like a drill sergeant, but really much
kinder.
His wife, Agusta, or Gus, once messengered a quart of chicken soup when I
had the flue.
Yes, there are many stories to be told. I would love to have a convention of
his assistants to swap "Arnold Newman Tales". It would make great reading
..... book idea? You head it first here.
Yours,
Tom

> >  I moved to New
> > York and was Arnold Newmans assistant for a year
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
> Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
Paul Furman - 25 May 2005 22:58 GMT
I guess this is the portrait you mention:
http://www.peterfetterman.com/artists/newman/newman_pic14.html

!

> ...He did not want to go do the photo of Krupp in the first
> place. When he was told he could do anything he wanted, he went. He broke
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>>> I moved to New
>>>York and was Arnold Newmans assistant for a year

Signature

Paul Furman
http://www.edgehill.net/1
san francisco native plants

Tom Ellliott - 26 May 2005 02:52 GMT
That is the photo, however it has been severly cropped and it is not the
entire picture, at least on my web browser.
Arnold WOULD NOT LIKE THAT! In fact when I was working for him, a magazine
cropped one of his pictures to force it to fit the layout and Arnold had a
fit, quote "The only person who can crop an Arnold Newman photo is ....
ARNOLD NEWMAN!!!". The art director made the neccessary corrections for I
think Arnold was shown a preliminary layout before publication. Why the
Krupp picture is cropped I really do not know.
Yours,
Tom
> I guess this is the portrait you mention:
> http://www.peterfetterman.com/artists/newman/newman_pic14.html
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> >>> I moved to New
> >>>York and was Arnold Newmans assistant for a year
dadiOH - 26 May 2005 04:33 GMT
> I guess this is the portrait you mention:
> http://www.peterfetterman.com/artists/newman/newman_pic14.html

As Mr. Elliott says, it has been cropped.  Badly.

For the younger readers, a bit of background...

1. The Krupp family were German industrialists.  During the war thay
were munition makers and many (all?) of the workers were from
concentration camps.

2. Newman was Jewish.

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
Tom Ellliott - 26 May 2005 11:27 GMT
Ah, not to be a pain .... Arnold Newman IS Jewish. (not "was").
Have fun, make pictures,
Yours,
Tom
> > I guess this is the portrait you mention:
> > http://www.peterfetterman.com/artists/newman/newman_pic14.html
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
> Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
Travis Newbury - 22 May 2005 05:20 GMT
> The main thing is to do what your heart wants and needs. Shoot for your
> heart, if you don't you will die. Your death can be slow and painfull or
> quick, but you will die. Yes you do have to pay the rent ... however
> consider shooting for your heart one of the most important things to do,
> like eating and breathing.

My goals as a photographer are purely personal in nature.  The last
paragraph of your post was right on the money.

Thanks!

Signature

-=tn=-

Ric Trexell - 22 May 2005 04:17 GMT
> This is probably a big "duh" for everyone but...
"shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot!"

Of that 300, I have 3 awesome
> keepers that are (personal opinion) just fantastic shots of my daughter.
>
> The only way to learn is to shoot!
***********************************************************************
Travis:  I wish to disagree with you.  I once thought that too, and looked
into taking the New York Inst. of Photography correspondence course, but
decided I would just shoot, shoot and shoot.  Later I saw that my
photography was not improving, I was just making the same mistakes over and
over and over.  I took the NYIP course and although I'm not saying that is
the best route to go, it is one.  I think some sort of professional
education is best.  As for your 300 to 3 ratio of good shots, I would expect
that out of a 36 roll of film.  Even if only one roll produced one good
keeper, three rolls would only be 108 shots and that is far from your 300.
Not to discourage you, maybe those are some really super shots.  It would be
interesting to make them available on the web and let others show you how to
improve them.  There are things that just shooting will not teach you, for
example, depth of field or some other things that I can't think of the names
right now.  Because photography is the capturing of light, you need to
understand how to use it to bring out what you want.  How to tell the story.
There are things that you can do with your camera that will make people
think you are a pro if you do them right.  Getting the occasional great
picture will not help if you are asked to shoot a friends wedding and take
900 shots only to end up with 9 good ones.  Get some good books on
photography and you will learn to get more out of the hobby than you thought
you could.  Have fun.  Ric.
Travis Newbury - 22 May 2005 05:14 GMT
>>This is probably a big "duh" for everyone but...
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> photography was not improving, I was just making the same mistakes over and
> over and over.

Perhaps I should have been clearer and used the word practice rather
than shoot.  I did not mean to imply you do nothing but blindly shoot
pictures (as many here rightly misinterpreted my post).

In the course of the 2 weeks I have owned the camera I have gone from no
knowledge of aperture, iso, shutter speed, and lenses to a good basic
understanding of their relationships.  Reading and looking at other's
work took me so far, shooting over 3000 pictures took me the rest of the
way.  That was the point I was trying to make.  Next on my list (in a
few weeks) is lighting and its relationship with my pictures.

Signature

-=tn=-

Steven Wandy - 22 May 2005 17:52 GMT
Hi Travis,
While I agree with your premise to an extent, most "pros" - and I am not
one - will tend to
disagree. They feel that if anyone takes that many shots, they are bound to
get a few "fantastic" ones just by chance if nothing else.
However, practice - with some knowledge of what you are doing and trying to
achieve - is very important. But "shooting" for shootings sake does not
teach much.
I have been into photography for over 35 years. Mostly for personal usages
and memories. I have done some work for friends and relatives and am
currently finishing the NYIP course. Not the best - I do miss the
interaction of a regular school setting - but I have learned quite a bit.
Regaards
Steve
Mike - 30 May 2005 22:14 GMT
>This is probably a big "duh" for everyone but the newbies, but I have to
>share it with everyone.  Here is the best piece of advice anyone in this
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>The only way to learn is to shoot!

Travis, what lens do you have?  Is the 18-55 the one included?  I am
thinking about an XT and was curious.

Mike
Travis Newbury - 30 May 2005 22:28 GMT
> Travis, what lens do you have?  Is the 18-55 the one included?  I am
> thinking about an XT and was curious.

I have the 18-55mm which is included in the lens kit version.  I also
got the Canon 70-300mm which ran about $200 I think.  It had mixed
reviews, but I am hardly a professional (and do not plan to be one) so
it fits all my needs.  I love the camera and the lenses.

I was lucky, the camera was in trade for some recording studio time.  I
got a great camera and the person got a great deal on recording time.
So we both won.  My goal is to take some pictures that are nice enough
to decorate the walls of the studio.

Signature

-=tn=-

Mike - 31 May 2005 21:51 GMT
>> Travis, what lens do you have?  Is the 18-55 the one included?  I am
>> thinking about an XT and was curious.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>So we both won.  My goal is to take some pictures that are nice enough
>to decorate the walls of the studio.

Good for you!  I to am only a hobbyist and think the XT will suit my
needs, but want to find a good lens to accompany it.  Thanks for the
info.

Mike
 
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