Photo Forum / General Photo Topics / General Topics / May 2005
Tips for newbies
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Travis Newbury - 21 May 2005 23:02 GMT This is probably a big "duh" for everyone but the newbies, but I have to share it with everyone. Here is the best piece of advice anyone in this group will give you.
"shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot!"
Especially if you have a digital where taking pictures is basically free. I just got a digital rebel xt and 2 lenses (18-55and 75-300) In just under 2 weeks I have shot over 3500 pictures. Today alone I took 300 of my daughter in a sprinkler. Of that 300, I have 3 awesome keepers that are (personal opinion) just fantastic shots of my daughter.
The only way to learn is to shoot!
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Craig Marston - 21 May 2005 23:58 GMT > This is probably a big "duh" for everyone but the newbies, but I have to > share it with everyone. Here is the best piece of advice anyone in this [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > The only way to learn is to shoot! Well, if you throw enough sh.t at the wall some of it will stick! If you're wanting to learn about photography it's not good practice to just fire away in the hope that you might just get something useable - obviously if you're photographing sports it's a little different. Yes do get out there and take photos and have fun but think about what you're doing too so that you can remember for next time in order to improve your skills. If you were to just shoot wildly (I'm not implying that you did Travis) you won't learn a thing other than familiarity your image browser and editing software!!
BTW even if you're shooting on film, it's relatively cheap compared to the value of capturing the moment.
Overall, get out there and have fun!
Craig.
Piemanlager - 22 May 2005 00:30 GMT > This is probably a big "duh" for everyone but the newbies, but I have to > share it with everyone. Here is the best piece of advice anyone in this [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > The only way to learn is to shoot! Here is another tip I was given by a good friend just after I started. Imagine every shot you take will cost you £10 to have developed and printed. It soon stops you wasting your time taking 300 shots to get 3 good ones!
Travis Newbury - 22 May 2005 05:14 GMT >>daughter in a sprinkler. Of that 300, I have 3 awesome keepers that are >>(personal opinion) just fantastic shots of my daughter. >>The only way to learn is to shoot! > Here is another tip I was given by a good friend just after I started. > Imagine every shot you take will cost you £10 to have developed and printed. > It soon stops you wasting your time taking 300 shots to get 3 good ones! I didn't say good ones. I said fantastic ones.
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Tom Ellliott - 22 May 2005 01:57 GMT There are many paths for a newbe to take in order to learn photography and eventually become a photographer. In my case I could not talk about my job in the USAFSS so I took holiday pictures with the $10.00 twin lense Ansco box camera my Dad gave me before I left for four years in Europe. I did typical tourist shots and then, at the time did not know, was a street photographer snapping away at the "natives" during Octoberfest and other uniquely European holidays. Pushed the camera to its limits and bought my first serious camera .... a RolicordVa which I still have (1957 the year I bougth it). I learned all the tech stuff in the base photolab from the German who was hired to run it. After my tour of duty I went to The Art Center College of Design, before it moved to Pasadena (and much cheaper). While going to school I worked as an assistant for Sheedy and Long Photography. They had the ABC-TV publicity account and were stringers for Sports Illustrated. After being production manager on Dateline: Hollywood, I moved to New York and was Arnold Newmans assistant for a year and then went out on my own. All during those formative years, if any of my friends saw me without a camera they assumed I didn't feel well, which was not too far from the truth for when sick I did not make/take photos. The only time I got .... drunk or partied ... was if someone else foot the bill for ALL available funds went into my photography. I always had my own darkroom even if it meant painting the windows with black paint so I could make prints in the bedroom/livingroom/bathroom. I really love photography and with the coming of the digital age the biggest problem choosing what project I want to do .... digital video ... digital stills .... anything having to do with making images. My mom is a writer and we are going to make one of her short stories into a short film. This is my web site: http://www.tom-elliott-photography.com. There are photos from all of the above periods and my commercial assignments. As to choosing one or two shots to conserve film, well that is a valuable techneique. In Art Center you were not permitted to do anyassignments on anything smaller than 4x5. In your senior year you could use something smaller. 4x5 view cameras are not the fastest thing and you have to slow down and be very methodical. They restricted you to one film, one film chemical, one paper grade, one serface. SuperXX, DK50, Single Weight Glossy Bromide, Grade 2. Not a forgiving combination. Everyones work was displayed at the same time. A great learning experience. The main thing is to do what your heart wants and needs. Shoot for your heart, if you don't you will die. Your death can be slow and painfull or quick, but you will die. Yes you do have to pay the rent ... however consider shooting for your heart one of the most important things to do, like eating and breathing. Yours, Tom
> This is probably a big "duh" for everyone but the newbies, but I have to > share it with everyone. Here is the best piece of advice anyone in this [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > The only way to learn is to shoot! dadiOH - 22 May 2005 02:04 GMT > I moved to New > York and was Arnold Newmans assistant for a year Now *that* would have been an experience! His portrait of Krupp is one that has been in my head for decades...
-- dadiOH ____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
Tom Ellliott - 25 May 2005 22:41 GMT To dadiOH, Arnold shared that experience with me, he is a great story teller. He had to hide the test polaroids from Krupps .... thugs ..... no one in Germany saw the finished shoot untill it was published. Arnold for a long time after was a person non grata. He did not want to go do the photo of Krupp in the first place. When he was told he could do anything he wanted, he went. He broke all the "rules" 1: cross lit creating dark light trap holes in the eyes. 2: Wide angle lens close distorting the head and 3: Did not color balance so that the green industrial lights gave that "green monster" color to the skin tones. He did go back to Germany once more and photographed the NEW Reitchstage. Not a flattering group photo. Most of them were the favored ones in Hitlers Reiststage. I guess the US Government felt that they were a known entity and thus controllable. Arnold was tough during working hours, but at breaks he shared alot. He closely supervised the making of prints. Very frustraiting because he would come into the darkroom and re-arrange the workflow the way he wanted it if he was making the prints. I finally, gently, grabbed his shoulders, turned him around and pushed him out the darkroom door saying, "Arnold, get out of my darkroom!" Looking over his shoulder with twinkling eyes, cigar in his mouth, said, "Ok, it is yours." He was contstantly testing me to see if I really wanted to be there, much like a drill sergeant, but really much kinder. His wife, Agusta, or Gus, once messengered a quart of chicken soup when I had the flue. Yes, there are many stories to be told. I would love to have a convention of his assistants to swap "Arnold Newman Tales". It would make great reading ..... book idea? You head it first here. Yours, Tom
> > I moved to New > > York and was Arnold Newmans assistant for a year [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. > Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico Paul Furman - 25 May 2005 22:58 GMT I guess this is the portrait you mention: http://www.peterfetterman.com/artists/newman/newman_pic14.html
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> ...He did not want to go do the photo of Krupp in the first > place. When he was told he could do anything he wanted, he went. He broke [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >>> I moved to New >>>York and was Arnold Newmans assistant for a year
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Tom Ellliott - 26 May 2005 02:52 GMT That is the photo, however it has been severly cropped and it is not the entire picture, at least on my web browser. Arnold WOULD NOT LIKE THAT! In fact when I was working for him, a magazine cropped one of his pictures to force it to fit the layout and Arnold had a fit, quote "The only person who can crop an Arnold Newman photo is .... ARNOLD NEWMAN!!!". The art director made the neccessary corrections for I think Arnold was shown a preliminary layout before publication. Why the Krupp picture is cropped I really do not know. Yours, Tom
> I guess this is the portrait you mention: > http://www.peterfetterman.com/artists/newman/newman_pic14.html [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >>> I moved to New > >>>York and was Arnold Newmans assistant for a year dadiOH - 26 May 2005 04:33 GMT > I guess this is the portrait you mention: > http://www.peterfetterman.com/artists/newman/newman_pic14.html As Mr. Elliott says, it has been cropped. Badly.
For the younger readers, a bit of background...
1. The Krupp family were German industrialists. During the war thay were munition makers and many (all?) of the workers were from concentration camps.
2. Newman was Jewish.
-- dadiOH ____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
Tom Ellliott - 26 May 2005 11:27 GMT Ah, not to be a pain .... Arnold Newman IS Jewish. (not "was"). Have fun, make pictures, Yours, Tom
> > I guess this is the portrait you mention: > > http://www.peterfetterman.com/artists/newman/newman_pic14.html [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. > Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico Travis Newbury - 22 May 2005 05:20 GMT > The main thing is to do what your heart wants and needs. Shoot for your > heart, if you don't you will die. Your death can be slow and painfull or > quick, but you will die. Yes you do have to pay the rent ... however > consider shooting for your heart one of the most important things to do, > like eating and breathing. My goals as a photographer are purely personal in nature. The last paragraph of your post was right on the money.
Thanks!
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Ric Trexell - 22 May 2005 04:17 GMT > This is probably a big "duh" for everyone but... "shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot!"
Of that 300, I have 3 awesome
> keepers that are (personal opinion) just fantastic shots of my daughter. > > The only way to learn is to shoot! *********************************************************************** Travis: I wish to disagree with you. I once thought that too, and looked into taking the New York Inst. of Photography correspondence course, but decided I would just shoot, shoot and shoot. Later I saw that my photography was not improving, I was just making the same mistakes over and over and over. I took the NYIP course and although I'm not saying that is the best route to go, it is one. I think some sort of professional education is best. As for your 300 to 3 ratio of good shots, I would expect that out of a 36 roll of film. Even if only one roll produced one good keeper, three rolls would only be 108 shots and that is far from your 300. Not to discourage you, maybe those are some really super shots. It would be interesting to make them available on the web and let others show you how to improve them. There are things that just shooting will not teach you, for example, depth of field or some other things that I can't think of the names right now. Because photography is the capturing of light, you need to understand how to use it to bring out what you want. How to tell the story. There are things that you can do with your camera that will make people think you are a pro if you do them right. Getting the occasional great picture will not help if you are asked to shoot a friends wedding and take 900 shots only to end up with 9 good ones. Get some good books on photography and you will learn to get more out of the hobby than you thought you could. Have fun. Ric.
Travis Newbury - 22 May 2005 05:14 GMT >>This is probably a big "duh" for everyone but... > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > photography was not improving, I was just making the same mistakes over and > over and over. Perhaps I should have been clearer and used the word practice rather than shoot. I did not mean to imply you do nothing but blindly shoot pictures (as many here rightly misinterpreted my post).
In the course of the 2 weeks I have owned the camera I have gone from no knowledge of aperture, iso, shutter speed, and lenses to a good basic understanding of their relationships. Reading and looking at other's work took me so far, shooting over 3000 pictures took me the rest of the way. That was the point I was trying to make. Next on my list (in a few weeks) is lighting and its relationship with my pictures.
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Steven Wandy - 22 May 2005 17:52 GMT Hi Travis, While I agree with your premise to an extent, most "pros" - and I am not one - will tend to disagree. They feel that if anyone takes that many shots, they are bound to get a few "fantastic" ones just by chance if nothing else. However, practice - with some knowledge of what you are doing and trying to achieve - is very important. But "shooting" for shootings sake does not teach much. I have been into photography for over 35 years. Mostly for personal usages and memories. I have done some work for friends and relatives and am currently finishing the NYIP course. Not the best - I do miss the interaction of a regular school setting - but I have learned quite a bit. Regaards Steve
Mike - 30 May 2005 22:14 GMT >This is probably a big "duh" for everyone but the newbies, but I have to >share it with everyone. Here is the best piece of advice anyone in this [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >The only way to learn is to shoot! Travis, what lens do you have? Is the 18-55 the one included? I am thinking about an XT and was curious.
Mike
Travis Newbury - 30 May 2005 22:28 GMT > Travis, what lens do you have? Is the 18-55 the one included? I am > thinking about an XT and was curious. I have the 18-55mm which is included in the lens kit version. I also got the Canon 70-300mm which ran about $200 I think. It had mixed reviews, but I am hardly a professional (and do not plan to be one) so it fits all my needs. I love the camera and the lenses.
I was lucky, the camera was in trade for some recording studio time. I got a great camera and the person got a great deal on recording time. So we both won. My goal is to take some pictures that are nice enough to decorate the walls of the studio.
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Mike - 31 May 2005 21:51 GMT >> Travis, what lens do you have? Is the 18-55 the one included? I am >> thinking about an XT and was curious. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >So we both won. My goal is to take some pictures that are nice enough >to decorate the walls of the studio. Good for you! I to am only a hobbyist and think the XT will suit my needs, but want to find a good lens to accompany it. Thanks for the info.
Mike
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