Photo Forum / General Photo Topics / General Topics / October 2008
Monitor Calibration/Color Correction Questions
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Shannon Cayze - 06 Oct 2008 15:26 GMT Hello all,
Recently I began Photoshopping some vacation photos and got through about 100 of them. Coincidentally, this past weekend, I decided to buy a Huey (non-pro version) monitor calibration tool to get the most accurate prints that I could (without going high-end, of course). I could not believe the difference between what I had done and the corrected version. I then verified the results by sending a couple to a local print shop, and the results did indeed most closely match the corrected versions.
This tells me that I've got a lot of work to do to get all the photos I'ved edited so far looking the way that I thought they were going to in the first place. Here are my questions:
1) What is the best way to make these corrections? I've been creating Color Balance adjustment layers in Photoshop CS3 and adding contrast as needed (because the corrected versions didn't just have color casts, they also lacked contrast). This gives me decent results but I thought I'd ask others who know more than I do if there is a better way.
2) Do any calibration tools have a feature that lets you view the corrected version and then automatically adjust it so that it looks like what you thought it should in the uncorrected version. I doubt the Huey has a feature like this, but do any of the high-end tools? The Huey can show you the two versions so it doesn't seem as though it would be too much to ask for an automatic adjustment tool that accounts for the difference.
3) Obviously I'd want to send photos to print only when they've been edited using a calibrated monitor. But what about when posting them to sites such as Flickr? Since most people will view them on uncalibrated monitors it seems (which I haven't tested) that you'd want to post photos edited on uncalibrated monitors to get the most expected output. Am I correct in my thinking?
Thank you, Shannon
trouble - 06 Oct 2008 19:29 GMT The purpose of calibration is to map the colors your monitor displays into the color space of your printer in an objective manner. What you see is subjective: your eye/brain automatically white balances; additionally the way the brain works you tend to see what you think should be in the image rather than what is really there. Monitor calibration for Photoshop has nothing/nada to do with what you see on the monitor screen, it is strictly to translate what the monitor displays into what the printer can replicate. You can choose to tune your monitor image to a specific white/black point but the Huey is not capable of this, I believe. It is also something difficult/impossible to achieve with the vast majority of 6 bit consumer grade LCD panels we all use regardless of what the calibration software is telling you. If you are processing jpeg images be careful about over adjusting: a jpeg image has already been highly processed in the camera and lacks sufficient information to do more than minor tweaking before introducing artifact. Most cameras give some choices about how the jpeg will be processed in terms of color and saturation and you may want to experiment with these settings. If your camera can record in raw format then you have much more data to process in any way you see fit and that your raw converter and image processing program allow. If you want to improve your photographic skills beyond snapshots in the digital realm you need to understand basic photography and raw image processing. There are good reasons why pros would use jpegs for specific purposes (e.g. weddings where exposure conditions will be identical and there will be too many images to hand process) but trying to do advanced image processing on jpegs is like throwing away the negative and working from a flatbed scan of a drugstore print. If you are not familiar with Photoshop basics (layers, masks) then there are many free/paid video tutorials on the web that demonstrate the concepts and progressively complex techniques. Once you are familiar with the basics then books like Scott Kelby's (I can't remember the name but I recommend this one) are more usable. Anyway, it's the one I refer to. Work flow is what works for you: there is no "right" way, but there are easier ways. The further you go the more you realize that many of the controls in Photoshop are poorly documented, interpreted differently by different "experts", and can achieve similar results.
Shannon Cayze - 06 Oct 2008 19:55 GMT Thanks for the response, trouble. Just to follow up on a couple of your points, I do shoot only in RAW, I am familiar with Photoshop basics, and I own Scott Kelby's Photoshop CS3 book. It's a great book by the way!
I don't know if I was clear in my original question as to what I hope to achieve. I just want to find the best way to get my photos that look different after monitor calibration looking the way they did before calibration. Since I do shoot in RAW I should have pretty much post-process flexibility. Also, I've saved all the PSD files with the modifications I've made, so in my mind, I should just need to add the appropriate adjustment layers to get this corrected. I was just curious to know if anyone has gone through this process before and if there's a standard way of handling it.
Thanks, Shannon
Joel - 06 Oct 2008 22:20 GMT > Thanks for the response, trouble. Just to follow up on a couple of > your points, I do shoot only in RAW, I am familiar with Photoshop [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Thanks, > Shannon To me, RAW is nice to have but if you jave enough Photoshop skill then RAW isn't a kind of magical like many people claim whatever the magical RAW is.
So, if the photo doesn't need retouching then RAW converter should give you all basic commands you need to get the color adjustment done in a very short time. But if you have enough Photoshop skill and the photo needs some retouching or more than RAW has to offer then Photoshop is the only answer. IOW, *if* you know Photoshop well enough to realize that anything RAW converter has to offer can be done directly from Photoshop and much much more. But in order to get to this level it may require several years for quick learner, and could be 5-10+ years for slow learner like myself, comparing to RAW Converter it may take few weeks to few months to get to know 1-2 dozen basic commands (comparing to Photoshop we may be looking at several hundreds of commands).
And depending on what you want to do with your final image, PSD does have some use but saving to PSD may not be the best idea as it will take more disk space but may not give much or any benefit. Of course unless you want to save the layer for later use, or continue post processing.
And again, about calibrating your monitor you just need to take care of your own problem, you do not have to worry about other people's problem. *Unless* you plan to give each of us a hardware to calibrate our monitor, in this case then I support you100% and may ask for a free calibrator even I don't care or need an extra one.
Me? I would suggest you to spend more time learning Photoshop instead of abandoning it for RAW. Or give Photoshop at least 3-4 years of hard practicing to start enjoy what Photoshop has to offer.
And your best way to do to the photo is getting the best out of it, or correct color is all you need.
Colin.D - 07 Oct 2008 00:28 GMT trouble, 10/7/2008 07:29 hrs:
> The purpose of calibration is to map the colors your monitor displays > into the color space of your printer in an objective manner. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > see on the monitor screen, it is strictly to translate what the monitor > displays into what the printer can replicate. With respect, that is not right. The purpose of monitor calibration is to remove any color casts or errors in the monitor display, so the displayed image matches the original image color as closely as possible.
This why the calibration software displays a series of varying colors on the screen which the colorimeter measures, and the difference between the known RGB values of the displayed color and the screen color is then corrected by the calibrating software producing a 'monitor profile'.
Subsequently, images on the monitor are displayed via the profile which corrects the screen colors *for visual purposes only. The original image values are not altered by this process.*
Likewise, a printer profile is generated by printing a known series of RGB values - some hundreds of different shades of color - on a given paper with given inks. The print is then analyzed in the same manner as was the screen to produce the printer profile. Subsequently, any image to be printed is corrected by the profile on its way to the printer. It should be obvious that different inks and different papers will need another profile; any one profile is only for the ink/paper combination it was generated with.
Profiles can be generated for cameras, scanners, monitors, and printers. The purpose in every case is to correct RGB errors in the equipment, and is always done with accurately calibrated standard images or targets
If you can be bothered to follow this post a bit further, consider the case of an uncalibrated system handling an image from your camera.
Let's say the task is to take and print a photograph of a Kodak grey card. We set up the card outside in sunlight, with the camera white balance set to auto. For simplicity, we shoot a jpeg shot with the card filling the entire frame.
Next, we load the image into Photoshop, and find it looks a bit greenish on the screen. Immediate question: is it really greenish, or is the monitor just showing us that color because of monitor errors?
So we open Window/Info (F8) and use the eyedropper to look at the RGB values in the image (which should be a uniform grey - if it is not, you have other problems!). Since the image should be an 18% gray, we can expect RGB values around 128 if the exposure was correct.
The eyedropper gives us values R 128, G 120, B 121. As the eyedropper is looking at the image and not the screen, we deduce that the camera image is a bit reddish, so right at the start the camera auto white balance is a bit out.
We have no way at this point of measuring the screen color except by eye, but as it looks greenish even with a reddish image, it is clear that the monitor is not reproducing colors accurately.
However, we press on, and adjust the screen color with Image/Adjust/Variations and choose the nearest to grey by eye that we can. Now, the screen looks to be a fairly good grey, so we decide to make a print.
But, what has happened to the image in the meantime? We reduced the green cast by shifting the image balance - by eye - toward the magenta, correcting the displayed image on screen, *but this move has added magenta to the already reddish original image*.
So, we come to doing a print. The printer, with its canned profile from the manufacturer, will print a reasonably acceptable print, so, fed with a reddish-magenta image, it proceeds to print a reddish-magenta print, nowhere near the grey we have on the screen. Worse, the print comes out very dark, much darker than the screen image.
Why did we get a dark red/magenta print? Well, as we saw, we deliberately pushed the balance towards magenta in an attempt to make the screen look right, but we failed to notice that the screen was too light because the gamma was wrong and the brightness was too high.
So, in summary, we have a camera that is a bit red, and a monitor that is too green and too light. Only the printer is about right - and it gets the blame for the bad print.
Translate that scenario into taking regular images and printing them with that setup. Not surprisingly, we are dismayed and confounded by the results.
Practically, the camera and printer can be taken as reasonable, but the monitor will be the main cause of poor printing. Monitor calibration is essential for good prints, with printer and camera calibration next in that order. If you scan color material, you should profile your scanner as well.
If you have persevered this far, congratulations. I hope it clarifies the situation.
Colin D.
Joel - 06 Oct 2008 20:18 GMT > Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > Thank you, > Shannon Well, in general monitor calibrating is just part of the whole color printing/displaying.
1. It gives you the general information of the displaying color close to normal base on whatever the lighting condition you setup. IOW, it gives you the idea that *if* the color is still off then from the problem somewhere else not displaying.
2. For printing, *if* after monitor calibrated but the color is still off (printing) then you may have to look at the Printer Profile. Many photolabs have their printer profile available on their web pages, or you can download the similar printer from other company.
Also, using the printer profile of the exact printer brand doesn't mean the printer setting is 100% correct, but pretty close. And different operator may have different setting.
But again, you should get pretty close to the standard.
3. Photoshop, after you calibrate the Monitor and setup the Printer Profile
- Windows will load and use the Calibrated Monitor Profile as *default* displaying (or Photoshop has nothing to do with it), and all applications will use the same monitor profile.
- Printer Profile, this you will have to setup in Photoshop, and manually toggle between Displaying/Printing using Ctrl-Y command (I am pretty sure but not 100%.
And, you may find that there may be some different color between Displaying and Printing, and some color channel like shinning RED you may not be able to get the color (or the shinning reb may look muddy).
I know this won't be able to give all the detail information you may need to know, but in general.
- You just need to worry about your end *not* other people end or problem. IOW, there are tens or hundreds of millions of people don't have their monitor calibrated using hardware calibrator, and this is their problem not yours.
- Monitor calibration just give you the general color monitoe profile, to make sure you are not way off. It doesn't mean the monitor displaying is 100% correct but pretty close to normal.
- Monitor Calibrated profile usually match the printing better, but doesn't warrantee to match 100%.
Mine is under $200 model not the $1000-3000+ model to know the difference or what the more expensive model has to offer when the cheaper model doesn't have.
Peter - 07 Oct 2008 00:35 GMT > Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > photos edited on uncalibrated monitors to get the most expected > output. Am I correct in my thinking? I try to make my saturation adjustments in Camera Raw. Then for color balance contrast enhancement and removal there is no better tool than curves adjustment layers combined with proper selection. That technique is also the most frustrating and difficult of all the methods. One of the beauties of PS is that there are many different ways of dong things. No one technique is totally right or wrong. Pick a technique that you are comfortable with and learn it well. IMHO Kelby's book is a good primer. There are some excellent courses given for reasonable prices at Lynda.com.
HTH
 Signature Peter
Shannon Cayze - 07 Oct 2008 02:15 GMT Thanks to everyone for your responses! I know you spent a lot of time on them, which I do appreciate.
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