 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| PhotoKB HomeDiscussion Groups Digital Photography Digital PhotoDSLR CamerasZLR CamerasPoint & Shoot CamerasFilm Photography 35 mmLarge FormatMedium formatDarkroomFilm and LabsOther EquipmentPhoto Technique Nature PhotographyPeople PhotographyTechnique GeneralGeneral Photo Topics General TopicsAustralian PhotographyUK PhotographyDirectoryPhoto Clubs |
Photo Forum / General Photo Topics / General Topics / June 2008Black & White Tips???
Im going to try to do some black & whites, any tips? Thanks, Judy > Im going to try to do some black & whites, any tips? Thanks, Judy It would be helpful if we knew what your plan is up to this point to try some black & white. You know....digital or film. If film do you plan to do the developing and printing yourself? If not, do you plan to use a custom lab or a commercial one hour photo type business? If digital are you going to use post processing software such as Photoshop? Print yourself or send to a lab? Shooting indoors or outdoors? Gardenlife = flowers maybe? The more information you can provide as to what you hope or plan to do, the more helpful you'll find the tips to be. > Im going to try to do some black & whites, any tips? Thanks, Judy Tip? I would say enjoy it! or I usually like B&W more than color, but do 90-95% in color. > Im going to try to do some black & whites, any tips? Thanks, Judy Have you considered shooting digital full color and then converting it? There are more ways to convert than you could imagine - they all give a different effect. >> Im going to try to do some black & whites, any tips? Thanks, Judy > > Have you considered shooting digital full color and then converting it? > There are more ways to convert than you could imagine - they all give a > different effect. The easiest way to try B&W is to use Ilford XP2, it is a real B&W film but is processed in C41 chemicals (colour) in any minilab. The quality is outstanding and so is the latitude. >>> Im going to try to do some black & whites, any tips? Thanks, Judy >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > but is processed in C41 chemicals (colour) in any minilab. The quality > is outstanding and so is the latitude. 'Ease', is suppose, is relative. To me the easiest would be to shoot full color digital and use GIMP to try various conversions to B&W - you can get a LOT of different 'moods' from one photo quite easily that way. >>>> Im going to try to do some black & whites, any tips? Thanks, Judy >>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > color digital and use GIMP to try various conversions to B&W - you can get > a LOT of different 'moods' from one photo quite easily that way. It ain't black and white though, different tonal range and resolution. >>>>> Im going to try to do some black & whites, any tips? Thanks, Judy >>>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >It ain't black and white though, different tonal range and resolution. Using the DXO RAW converter you can get the same tonal qualities (and grain) as a range of films, both positive and negative colour and B&W including the XPseries.  Signature\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ >>>>>> Im going to try to do some black & whites, any tips? Thanks, Judy >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > grain) as a range of films, both positive and negative colour and B&W > including the XPseries. I had a look at that, it seems that you can achieve the same result in the channel mixer and noise filter in Photoshop but it still doesn't look like black and white film. It looks ok but not in comparison to the genuine article. <snip> > I had a look at that, it seems that you can achieve the same result in the > channel mixer and noise filter in Photoshop but it still doesn't look like > black and white film. It looks ok but not in comparison to the genuine > article. "Channel Mixer" is one of 1001+ different techniques, and it can look more/less like B&W film depending on your skill/technique. >>> It ain't black and white though, different tonal range and resolution. >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >black and white film. It looks ok but not in comparison to the genuine >article. See the add on "film pack" it can completely mimic the film tones and grain. Signature\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ > >>>> Im going to try to do some black & whites, any tips? Thanks, Judy > >>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > It ain't black and white though, different tonal range and resolution. Yes and No, it can be B&W, it can be Duotone, it can be grayscale, it can be mixed etc. depending on your technique. Same with B&W film (darkroom) it can be pure B&W or grayscale. And I don't think you will like pure B&W. Also, it can be easier depending on how well you know the technique/program/tool. >>>>>> Im going to try to do some black & whites, any tips? Thanks, Judy >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > And I don't think you will like pure B&W. Also, it can be easier > depending on how well you know the technique/program/tool. It is definitely easier to load a film, expose it, hand it over to a lab, collect your prints, negs (and CD). No computers, no conversions, no sweat. The downside is the cost of film and processing but that can be weighed up against the cost of a computer, digital camera, cards, inkjets, inks, papers etc. > >>>>>> Im going to try to do some black & whites, any tips? Thanks, Judy > >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > against the cost of a computer, digital camera, cards, inkjets, inks, papers > etc. I guess I may have to agree with you that 1. Using B&W film to capture a B&W image is a way to go. I don't say better but at least a way 2. Handing the film to photolab for developing and printing can't be any easier. I don't say better but at least no skill required. And if you shoot for skill then 1. Just use the computer you are using to type the message to do whatever you want to do with the image 2. If you don't have digital camera then it's another story 3. If you don't have photo retouching skill then it's another story. 4. If you have all the above, then you too can just hand it to the photolab to have it printed at photolab. Of course if you have and want to print using your inkjet, thermal printer. And even B&W doesn't have lot of color to cause color casting, but it still require shading and still require some post processing skill. >>>>>>> Im going to try to do some black & whites, any tips? Thanks, Judy >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >against the cost of a computer, digital camera, cards, inkjets, inks, papers >etc. and very little if any controll over the end result! >>>>> Im going to try to do some black & whites, any tips? Thanks, Judy >>>> Have you considered shooting digital full color and then converting it? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > It ain't black and white though, different tonal range and resolution. To clarify for the OP... on film, there is an advantage to B&W and there would be for digital if you used a B&W sensor but that's only available on specialized scientific equipment so B&W digital ends up losing information rather than getting an advantage. However digital has the advantage of being able to apply filters for different effects. Raw format gives complete freedom to adjust colors & white balance. You can shoot some cameras in raw or raw plus jpeg in B&W mode and the jpeg gives you feedback on the B&W appearance while raw lets you do color if desired or custom conversion. SignaturePaul Furman www.edgehill.net www.baynatives.com all google groups messages filtered due to spam >To clarify for the OP... on film, there is an advantage to B&W and there >would be for digital if you used a B&W sensor but that's only available >on specialized scientific equipment so B&W digital ends up losing >information rather than getting an advantage. None of the above is valid. B&W film is pan-chromatic, and different films have different color sensitivities. That is *exactly* the same with B&W digital photography. And just as is the difference between film and digital when doing color photography, the significance with B&W digital is that parameters can be changed after the exposure is made. >However digital has the >advantage of being able to apply filters for different effects. Raw >format gives complete freedom to adjust colors & white balance. You can >shoot some cameras in raw or raw plus jpeg in B&W mode and the jpeg >gives you feedback on the B&W appearance while raw lets you do color if >desired or custom conversion. And regardless of that, the RAW data allows all filters and "film types" to be experimented with after the fact, in the darkroom. Wonder what it would have looked like using Tri-X instead of HP5? Dial it in. Want a red filter? Dial it in. Want to use high contrast ortho film? Dial it in. All from a single RAW data file. SignatureFloyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson> Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com >> To clarify for the OP... on film, there is an advantage to B&W and there >> would be for digital if you used a B&W sensor but that's only available [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > and different films have different color sensitivities. > That is *exactly* the same with B&W digital photography. I'm comparing to digital without a bayer rgb sensor. A lot is lost in that process if your end goal is b&w. > And just as is the difference between film and digital > when doing color photography, the significance with B&W [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > filter? Dial it in. Want to use high contrast ortho > film? Dial it in. All from a single RAW data file. SignaturePaul Furman www.edgehill.net www.baynatives.com all google groups messages filtered due to spam >>> To clarify for the OP... on film, there is an advantage to B&W and there >>> would be for digital if you used a B&W sensor but that's only available [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >I'm comparing to digital without a bayer rgb sensor. >A lot is lost in that process if your end goal is b&w. What is lost? The end result is exactly the same. You get a pixel, and it has a brightness level that depends on both the color and the luminance. That is the same as happens with B&W film. SignatureFloyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson> Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com >>>> To clarify for the OP... on film, there is an advantage to B&W and there >>>> would be for digital if you used a B&W sensor but that's only available [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > What is lost? Every pixel is filtered to 1/4 the sensitivity: R, G, G or B from the bayer filter. It doesn't matter much for color and performs better than one might think for luminance but an unfiltered sensor should do considerably better. They only exist as expensive scientific equipment & cheap security cameras though. What might be neat is a small simple B&W Dx sized P&S for $500 and it would mount any 35mm lens, 8MP. > The end result is exactly the same. You get a pixel, > and it has a brightness level that depends on both the > color and the luminance. That is the same as happens > with B&W film. SignaturePaul Furman www.edgehill.net www.baynatives.com all google groups messages filtered due to spam >>>>> To clarify for the OP... on film, there is an advantage to B&W and there >>>>> would be for digital if you used a B&W sensor but that's only available [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >one might think for luminance but an unfiltered sensor should do >considerably better. The "unfiltered" sensor has to be filtered in some way that gives its output different tones for different colors, exactly the same as film or Bayer/digital does. Any way you do it, the result is just about exactly the same. SignatureFloyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson> Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com <snip> > > None of the above is valid. B&W film is pan-chromatic, > > and different films have different color sensitivities. > > That is *exactly* the same with B&W digital photography. > > I'm comparing to digital without a bayer rgb sensor. > A lot is lost in that process if your end goal is b&w. How do you compare B&W film vs Digital when one using chemical while other using computer and technique? I don't know what you gain or lose on either one, but I can tell you that you that with digital (it's possible with film too but just talk about digital) you can turn the gray into pure BLACK, or you turn white area (with some gray channel) into pure BLACK (or Dark <-> Light). However, if you compare today B&W printer to the printer used decades/century ago then there may be some differences. >> 'Ease', is suppose, is relative. To me the easiest would be to shoot full >> color digital and use GIMP to try various conversions to B&W - you can get >> a LOT of different 'moods' from one photo quite easily that way. > >It ain't black and white though, different tonal range and resolution. It *is* black and white. The resolution does not change. Of course the tonal range does change... in whichever way you choose to change it. That is exactly the same as picking which B&W film to use... SignatureFloyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson> Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com > Im going to try to do some black & whites, any tips? Thanks, Judy When you are composing, pay attention to the tonalities and their masses. An old trick is to squint, which reduces or eliminates the details. If you are doing film, you will want to use filters to help in differentiating colors that will reproduce very similarly as gray tones, though they look very different in color. An example is clouds and sky. Wrong time of day and the clouds will barely be distinguishable. They certainly won't render anything like what you actually saw. Contrast is the key to B&W; it provides the details. Also, textures are somewhat more important. B&W with film takes a very different type of pre-visualization than color does. With digital, you can post-visualize (muck about with stuff until you get what you want, or something you like). A good tip (for any type of photography) is to look at what others have done that appeals to you and work backwards to your own shot. Tip #1: Get your exposure right. Tip #2: Know more (or less) what the image should look like before you press the shutter release. Tip #3: If they need heavy photoshop work and the equipment is capable of doing the job without it, see tips # & #2. Vance |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.