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Photo Forum / General Photo Topics / General Topics / May 2008

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Where do we draw the line?

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Dudley Hanks - 14 Apr 2008 04:21 GMT
Crop lines, that is...

http://www.geocities.com/hanks.dudley/Dima.html

Thanks,
Dudley
Rob Morley - 14 Apr 2008 04:46 GMT
> Crop lines, that is...
>
> http://www.geocities.com/hanks.dudley/Dima.html

I'd take it in pretty close - lose most of the top half and nearly a
quarter off each end.  In visual terms that's about a tail's width to
the left of her paws, right of her tail and above her ears.  In numbers
on the 574 x 431 original that's 141,194 to 452,431
Nice doggy.
Dudley Hanks - 14 Apr 2008 05:00 GMT
>> Crop lines, that is...
>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> on the 574 x 431 original that's 141,194 to 452,431
> Nice doggy.

Thanks, Rob.  I'll crop it like you suggested and post it as well.  I'm
hoping to get a few other suggestions and then ask for a vote on the various
croppings.

As for the pic itself, is there anything else that needs attention?  Too
busy?  Bad pose?  Other?

Take Care,
Dudley
Rob Morley - 14 Apr 2008 05:24 GMT
> As for the pic itself, is there anything else that needs attention?  Too
> busy?  Bad pose?  Other?

Great pose.  A couple of bits of conifer around her ears are catching
the light and are a bit distracting, but could easily be darkened.
Dudley Hanks - 14 Apr 2008 23:35 GMT
>> As for the pic itself, is there anything else that needs attention?  Too
>> busy?  Bad pose?  Other?
>>
> Great pose.  A couple of bits of conifer around her ears are catching
> the light and are a bit distracting, but could easily be darkened.

Thanks, Rob, I'll get my son to see if he can tone it down a bit.  He's just
learning how to use Photoshop, so he likes doing this kind of stuff.  But,
being a teenager, his attention span sometimes gets a bit short, so he
doesn't always catch these things...

Take Care,
Dudley
Ray Fischer - 14 Apr 2008 05:37 GMT
>Crop lines, that is...
>
>http://www.geocities.com/hanks.dudley/Dima.html

If you move the doggy away from the tree by a several feet then you
can use a wide aperture to throw the tree out of focus and make it
clear that the dog is the subject of the photo.  I'd also get down
lower to get rid of the ground.

But YMMV.

Signature

Ray Fischer        
rfischer@sonic.net

Dudley Hanks - 15 Apr 2008 00:02 GMT
>>Crop lines, that is...
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> can use a wide aperture to throw the tree out of focus and make it
> clear that the dog is the subject of the photo.  I'd also

Not coming from a portrait photography background, this is one thing I keep
forgetting.  I think to myself, "I want trees for a backdrop," so I position
myself with the branches scraping my neck and get Dima to hit the ground in
front of me.  Then I sneek in front of her and snap the shot.  I've got to
alter this methodology and take a couple of steps to ensure sufficient room
gets inserted.

However, I'm shooting with a Canon Powershot A720, so depth-of-field is
fairly deep, even at f/2.8;  I'm not sure I'll be able to put enough
distance in to get the effect I want.  I may have to change locations
entirely.

get down
> lower to get rid of the ground.

I think I need to couple this suggestion with others I've received to crop
tighter.  Up till now, I've been simply content to get my subject in the
frame, not too far away from my target zone.

I'm getting more used to the way my camera captures and processes an area,
so I can start paying more attention to getting closer and cropping out
extrenuous areas such as the grassy area in front.  Thanks for pointing that
one out.

I'm making a list of all the suggestions I receive, and I'll be reviewing it
prior to each shoot in the future.

This should help a lot.

Take Care,
Dudley
tony cooper - 14 Apr 2008 06:13 GMT
>Crop lines, that is...
>
>http://www.geocities.com/hanks.dudley/Dima.html

Kinda depends on what you are trying to present.  Are you presenting
an image of Dima, or presenting a composition with Dima in the image?

There's an interesting pyramid of the lighter fir (pun intended)
behind Dima, but - in my opinion - it leads the eye away from the dog.
It's like a big arrow directing the eye to go upwards.

If your intent is present an image of Dima, then I'd crop it
horizontally lose the trees.  Put Dima's tags on a vertical line about
a third of the way from the left of image.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f244/cooper213/dima.jpg

Overall, your composition is too balanced for my taste.  Static.  

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Paul Furman - 14 Apr 2008 06:32 GMT
>> Crop lines, that is...
>>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> a third of the way from the left of image.
> http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f244/cooper213/dima.jpg

Yep, I did something very similar. Still ample proportion of woods in
the background. I cropped to remove all the white sky but it could work
with some sky on one side. I also agree about cloning out the bright
spots in the background near her ear.

Fantastic shot of obviously a great friend.
Dudley Hanks - 15 Apr 2008 23:45 GMT
>>Crop lines, that is...
>>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Thanks, Tony, I appreciate the feedback.

Concert photography was what I loved doing in the past, so action, drama
energy were what I strove for.  With my present current shift to more still
life type shots, it's taking a bit of experimentation to achieve the effect
I want.  So, I am grateful you pointed out the overall static atmosphere.

As for my intention, I am not so much into doing a portrait of Dima;
rather, I want a composition which tells a bit of her story.  When we
graduated, GDB brought in a pro shooter to do a grad portrait of the two of
us, so I have a shot of her in harness by my side which looks very nice.

With my first guide, Bonner, he loved to lay around on the beach.  When we
were on holidays, when we frequented the beach areas of Vancouver, Canada,
and the Sunshine Coast (a bit north of Vancouver), Bonner was in his glory
just lazing around, lying on the sand and trying to dig holes (when I wasn't
looking).  So, I took a good shot of him in that setting, a very low-angle
shot taken from just in front of a fore-paw, his head lifted, mouth open in
a smile like expression and his eyes gazing out over the water.  The shot
was low enough that his head was surrounded by sky, and the light -- nearly
white -- sand adding contrast to his darker fur.

When people think of guide dogs, they have this stereotypical view of guides
which excludes the dog's real nature.  What people miss is that guides have
a life out of harness as well.  I don't want just another shot of my guide,
in harness, on the job, playing a supportive role.  I want the shot to say
something about my guide's soul.

In Dima's case, she loves the great outdoors.  When we go camping, she
relishes in chasing squirrles, birds and little things that hop, scurry or
slither across the ground.  She would run off into the trees and find a big
stick and bring it back.  Then, we would play tug with it, and she would
chew it to pieces.  She would wait for wasps, bees, dragon-flys and other
flying insects to get close.  Then, she would whip out her muzzle and snag
them in mid-flight.  She got stung a few times, but it never slowed her
down.  one time, when she was in harness and we were at a busy bus stop,
waiting for a bus to take us home at the end of a busy day, she forgot
herself and leaped about four feet into the air from a sitting position,
snagging something that got too close.  She snapped her jaws about 3 or four
times in mid-air before she got it, but she got it.  At least, that is what
one of the totally shocked bystanders told me, after regaining her
composure.  I think they thought Dima was a rogue guide who was about to go
for their throats -- sort of a Cujo in harness.

This is why I want something in the picture to symbolize the woods -- and
her spirit.

While I didn't plan the big arrow pointing to the sky, I like what it stands
for, and I want to thank you for pointing that compositional element out as
well.  I have been thinking about doing a reshoot in a different area to see
what I get, but the composition you describe almost sounds poetic,
definitely prophetic.

Today, Dima is having a bit of an off day.  I have been getting used to her
nearly back to normal demeanor, but she was a bit quieter and calmer today
than she usually is.  I wouldn't say she has been lethargic, but definitely
more subdued.

I'll need to monitor her closely tonight, I think.

Thanks for the suggestions, Tony.

Take Care,
Dudley
Alienjones - 14 Apr 2008 07:13 GMT
| Crop lines, that is...
|
| http://www.geocities.com/hanks.dudley/Dima.html
|
| Thanks,
| Dudley

Shepard dogs are a compelling image alone, with no distractions. I think
a very tight crop of the dog's face, ears and possibly chest with all
(any) background left in a a focus zone so blurred that nothing is
distinguishable.

Portrait orientation and it would portray (as portraits are supposed to
do) the object of attention and not the distraction of a background that
can be recognized. If you use a flash pointed vertically with a
"Specular highlight" card on it, you will also add some life to the
dog's eyes, not normally available under daylight conditions.

Some of my portraits may help reinforce my suggestions:
http://www.douglasjames.com.au/portfolio/Portraits/

Take note of the copyright covering my images if you intend to take any
of them without asking first ...and simply don't!

- --

from Douglas,
If my PGP key is missing, the
post is a forgery. Ignore it.
Dudley Hanks - 14 Apr 2008 08:34 GMT
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> (any) background left in a a focus zone so blurred that nothing is
> distinguishable.

But, Dima isn't a typical shepherd;  she is a guide dog, and she is dying of
cancer.  She has devoted her life to guiding me through a crazy world that
cares little about the safety or convenience of blind persons, and she has
done it gracefully, eagerly, and vivaciously.  To capture her as a closely
cropped shepehrd where her teeth would probably be the most noticeable
characteristic, would convey the wrong image.

Her doamain was the world, and she occupied a unique position halfway
between the animal kingdom and the realm of human affairs.  I want her
picture to be a tribute, not just a portrait.

> Portrait orientation and it would portray (as portraits are supposed to
> do) the object of attention and not the distraction of a background that
> can be recognized. If you use a flash pointed vertically with a
> "Specular highlight" card on it, you will also add some life to the
> dog's eyes, not normally available under daylight conditions.

I used two flashes for this shot, perhaps the image reduction obviates the
twinkle in her eye, but I'm sure it will be visible in the final print, if I
decide to mount this one on my wall.

> Some of my portraits may help reinforce my suggestions:
> http://www.douglasjames.com.au/portfolio/Portraits/

Unfortunately, I have enough trouble viewing my own images where I know what
I've shot;  viewing someone elses work, where I have no idea of what is in
the frame, is all but impossible for me.  But, thanks, anyway.

> Take note of the copyright covering my images if you intend to take any
> of them without asking first ...and simply don't!

Now, Douglas, is that really called for?  Isn't the copyright notice on your
site sufficient protection on its own?

Besides, I don't at present derive any photographically generated income,
and, if I did, only images I have shot myself would be worth anything,
either to me or my customers.  Moreover, given that I have only about 2%
vision, wouldn't it be a bit obvious I've stolen someone else's work if I
were to present a technically perfect photograph as part of my collection?

Take Care,
Dudley
me@mine.net - 14 Apr 2008 10:44 GMT
>I want her
>picture to be a tribute, not just a portrait.

You might also consider a situation which triggers remembrance of your many
times together.
Alienjones - 14 Apr 2008 11:46 GMT
| Now, Douglas, is that really called for?  Isn't the copyright notice on your
| site sufficient protection on its own?
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
| Take Care,
| Dudley

Apparently Dudley People like some of those who offered you advise have
no regard for the copyright or other people. One such person is Paul
Furman who pretended to offer you advise on composition of your picture.

He took some of my images, without my permission, illegally altered them
without my consent and attempted to discredit my findings of an example
of two different cameras, with thousands of dollars price difference not
producing all that different a quality image with the altered images.

Despite legal action being commenced today against his host, he figured
he'd leave the evidence in place with just the index image removed. So
yes... Reminding people reading this thread that my images are copyright
and that I will pursue my intellectual property rights in protecting
myself against such idiots is very timely.

I don't for a single moment suggest you are in the same gutter as he is.
The warning was timely for the other idiots inhabiting these photo
groups who think nothing is illegal on Usenet.
- --

from Douglas,
If my PGP key is missing, the
post is a forgery. Ignore it.
Dudley Hanks - 14 Apr 2008 19:44 GMT
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
> =81+5
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Well, Douglas, I'm not sure how many times you "have commenced legal action
today" against Paul, but I'm getting a bit tired of hearing that phrase.

I've followed that thread, and I'm rather disappointed you are trying to use
my thread to dredge it up again.

If you decide to post articles expressing your views / opinions / findings
on the internet, then you might want to be aware that not everyone will
agree with you.  Some people might even want to disprove your findings if
they hold alternative opinions.  It's the way the world works.

If you wish to launch legal action against Paul and spend hundreds of
thousands of dollars to soothe your ego, fine, it's up to you.  But, be a
man about it and leave it up to your lawyers.

Take Care,
Dudley
Dudley Hanks - 14 Apr 2008 22:58 GMT
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> He took some of my images, without my permission,

Fair Dealing...

illegally altered them

Analyzed them...

> without my consent and attempted to discredit my findings of an example
> of two different cameras, with thousands of dollars price difference not
> producing all that different a quality image with the altered images.

He had the audacity to disagree with you...

> Despite legal action being commenced today against his host, he figured

Again?  Shouldn't you wait for the last legal action you launched against
his ISP to wrap up?

> he'd leave the evidence in place with just the index image removed. So
> yes... Reminding people reading this thread that my images are copyright
> and that I will pursue my intellectual property rights in protecting
> myself against such idiots is very timely.

A complete waste of time and bandwidth?

> I don't for a single moment suggest you are in the same gutter as he is.

No, my gutter is much colder...

> The warning was timely for the other idiots inhabiting these photo
> groups who think nothing is illegal on Usenet.

Sorry, couldn't think of anything humourous to end on...

Take Care,
Dudley
Alienjones - 15 Apr 2008 04:03 GMT
|> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
|> Hash: SHA1
[quoted text clipped - 56 lines]
| Take Care,
| Dudley

You're doing pretty well for a blind person if you can't see my
portraits but you can see Furman's plagiarism of my photos.

- --

from Douglas,
If my PGP key is missing, the
post is a forgery. Ignore it.
Dudley Hanks - 15 Apr 2008 07:01 GMT
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
[quoted text clipped - 83 lines]
> =dXCQ
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

I haven't seen the actual images, but I've followed the threads.  The images
don't matter, only legal principles...

Take Care,
Dudley
Dudley Hanks - 15 Apr 2008 07:17 GMT
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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[quoted text clipped - 83 lines]
> =dXCQ
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

My condition (retinitis pigmentosa) has been documented by the genetics
department of the University of Alberta since I was 14 years old.  The
physical deterioration of both the blood vessels in my eye and my retina can
be observed by any optomatrist.  I am a member of the Canadian National
Institute for the Blind, an institute which requires medical verification of
blindness prior to registration.  I am a certified guide dog handler,
acreddited by Guide Dogs for the Blind Inc with head offices in San Rafael,
California -- also an institute which requires medical verification of
blindness prior to accepting a candidate for training.  I received my first
guide dog from that organization 15 years ago.

Very thorough documentation of my condition can (and will) be provided upon
request (COD).

Take Care,
Dudley
Peter - 19 Apr 2008 01:33 GMT
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[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> The warning was timely for the other idiots inhabiting these photo
> groups who think nothing is illegal on Usenet.

I took your comment exactly as you stated above. Using another persons work
without their permission is no different than stealing. Unfortunately, your
reminder is necessary.
Besides, my intellectual property lawyer friends keep reminding me that if
you don't take vigorous steps to enforce your rights you may very well lose
them>

Signature

Peter

Paul Furman - 20 Apr 2008 01:28 GMT
Peter,
I think you must not understand the situation.
Frank ess - 14 Apr 2008 17:47 GMT
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>>> Thanks,
>>> Dudley

[ ... ]

My quick selections are at:
http://www.fototime.com/inv/E680732CA59D9AD

The portrait-style seems nice, but trite; the "Tribute" includes some
background that may be distracting to some; the only thing that really
bothered me was the dark object behind the dog's right ear. I did a
little non-meticulous cloning there; a better, more fastidious
craftsman might make it even better.

I didn't mind the tree pointing up and away from the dog. I see it as
a not-so-subtle metaphor, something of a consoling apparition
regarding the dog's and your circumstances.

I hope you incorporate your dog's goodness into your inner landscape;
she'll comfort you in your grief.

Resp'y,

Signature

Frank ess

tony cooper - 14 Apr 2008 20:28 GMT
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>> Hash: SHA1
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>a not-so-subtle metaphor, something of a consoling apparition
>regarding the dog's and your circumstances.

This observation is why I posted my earlier comment about what Dudley
is trying to do; provide an image of his dog, or provide a composition
that includes an image of the dog.  If you view it from the
"composition that includes an image of the dog", then the symbolic
arrow - formed by the trees - pointing to the heavens over a dog that
is terminally ill becomes a vital part of the composition.  If it's
intended as an image of his dog, then I feel the trees become a
distraction.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Frank ess - 14 Apr 2008 21:22 GMT
>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>> Hash: SHA1
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> composition.  If it's intended as an image of his dog, then I feel
> the trees become a distraction.

I guess you must have thought I didn't understand. That explains why
you posted this comment.

Done and done.

Signature

Frank ess
Rapidly exhausting his supply of useless F!ing posts

tony cooper - 15 Apr 2008 04:10 GMT
>>> I didn't mind the tree pointing up and away from the dog. I see it
>>> as a not-so-subtle metaphor, something of a consoling apparition
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
>Done and done.

No, I really didn't give any thought to whether or not you understood.
If anything, I assumed you did.  We're just voicing some parallel
thoughts along with some differences in reaction to the image.  Nuffin
wrong with that.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Roy Jose Lorr - 15 Apr 2008 19:55 GMT
> Crop lines, that is...
>
> http://www.geocities.com/hanks.dudley/Dima.html

Nice spruce growing from dog's head.
PinkFloyd43 - 26 Apr 2008 13:44 GMT
> Crop lines, that is...
>
> http://www.geocities.com/hanks.dudley/Dima.html
>
> Thanks,
> Dudley

Is the subject the dog or the tree, you want the
subject to be what everyone looks at within the
photo, also don't center stuff, personal thing
that although sometimes works most of the time
does not!
George Kerby - 26 Apr 2008 19:30 GMT
On 4/26/08 7:44 AM, in article msFQj.266$lc6.180@trnddc04, "PinkFloyd43"
<pinkFloyd43@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> Crop lines, that is...
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> that although sometimes works most of the time
> does not!
The above "sentence" was posted by a typical product of United States Public
Education System. Thank your local politicians for this phenomena.
Ray Fischer - 26 Apr 2008 20:00 GMT
>The above "sentence" was posted by a typical product of United States Public
>Education System. Thank your local politicians for this phenomena.

The above was posted by a typical result of listening to too much
right-wing bullshit.

Signature

Ray Fischer        
rfischer@sonic.net

George Kerby - 26 Apr 2008 20:25 GMT
On 4/26/08 2:00 PM, in article 48137be1$0$34489$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net,

>> The above "sentence" was posted by a typical product of United States Public
>> Education System. Thank your local politicians for this phenomena.
>
> The above was posted by a typical result of listening to too much
> right-wing bullshit.
Because the moron is too damn lazy to construct a sentence correctly,
doesn't care or just is unable to do so has something to do with "right-wing
bullshit"? Fish-head, your head is up your anal gland. Come up for water.
tony cooper - 26 Apr 2008 21:02 GMT
>On 4/26/08 2:00 PM, in article 48137be1$0$34489$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net,
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>> The above was posted by a typical result of listening to too much
>> right-wing bullshit.

>Because the moron is too damn lazy to construct a sentence correctly,
>doesn't care or just is unable to do so has something to do with "right-wing
>bullshit"?

Uhhh, George.   "Public Education System" should not be capped.
"Phenomena" is plural and takes the plural "these" or "this" takes the
singular "phenomenon".  The last sentence has a comma splice and is
missing some word or phrase to make sense.

The post is hardly a poster child for the US public school system.

Signature

Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Frank ess - 26 Apr 2008 21:31 GMT
>> On 4/26/08 2:00 PM, in article
>> 48137be1$0$34489$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net, "Ray Fischer"
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> The post is hardly a poster child for the US public school system.

I'll take this opportunity to express my disdain and disgust, and to
establish superiority, innit?

Thank you.

Signature

Frank ess

Blinky the Shark - 26 Apr 2008 20:06 GMT
> On 4/26/08 7:44 AM, in article msFQj.266$lc6.180@trnddc04, "PinkFloyd43"
> <pinkFloyd43@hotmail.com> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> The above "sentence" was posted by a typical product of United States
> Public Education System. Thank your local politicians for this phenomena.

Phenomenon.

Signature

Blinky T. "product of US public education system" Shark

George Kerby - 26 Apr 2008 20:26 GMT
On 4/26/08 2:06 PM, in article
pan.2008.04.26.19.06.49.894992@thurston.blinkynet.net, "Blinky the Shark"
<no.spam@box.invalid> wrote:

>> On 4/26/08 7:44 AM, in article msFQj.266$lc6.180@trnddc04, "PinkFloyd43"
>> <pinkFloyd43@hotmail.com> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Phenomenon.
No, 'fraid not, Blinky. There are *many* of these illiterate morons.

I mean, just take Fischer, for an example...
Blinky the Shark - 26 Apr 2008 22:44 GMT
> On 4/26/08 2:06 PM, in article
> pan.2008.04.26.19.06.49.894992@thurston.blinkynet.net, "Blinky the Shark"
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>> Phenomenon.
> No, 'fraid not, Blinky. There are *many* of these illiterate morons.

Then "these phenomena".  Like these dogs versus this dog.  Number.


Signature

Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Blinky: http://blinkynet.net

Peter - 27 Apr 2008 01:34 GMT
> also don't center stuff, personal thing
> that although sometimes works most of the time
> does not!

Getting back to photography,
Like many rules, that one can and should be broken, judiciously.

I think the "rule" against centering is really designed to say a centered
composition may result in a static composition. However, some images look
far more dynamic when centered. think spiral.

Similarly, the "rule" of  thirds is merely a compositional aid, not
necessarily one to be slavishly followed.

Signature

Peter
Just a mini rant about the camera club judging system.

Dudley Hanks - 27 Apr 2008 04:44 GMT
>> also don't center stuff, personal thing
>> that although sometimes works most of the time
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Similarly, the "rule" of  thirds is merely a compositional aid, not
> necessarily one to be slavishly followed.

Hey, Peter, I agree with you completely.  I've never been one to follow
rules blindly.  The reason why most of those portraits out there are
centered is because they look good centered.

I try to get a good overall mix in my pictures, some centered, some not
centered, and some even layed out a bit weirdly.  Sometimes I do it
accidentally, some times on purpose.  In the end, each shot needs to be
judged on a mixture of its overall effect and technical merits.

At present, I'm just happy when I can take a picture that has most of the
elements I'm looking for arranged somewhat pleasantly in the image.

Take Care,
Dudley
Peter - 27 Apr 2008 12:19 GMT
>  I've never been one to follow rules blindly.

Didn't think you had a choice.

Dudley, I couldn't resist a pun like that.

Signature

Peter

Dudley Hanks - 27 Apr 2008 20:14 GMT
>>  I've never been one to follow rules blindly.
>
> Didn't think you had a choice.
>
> Dudley, I couldn't resist a pun like that.

Chuckle...  I thought I'd put it out there and see if anyone picked up on
it.

Take Care,
Dudley
Peter - 27 Apr 2008 21:21 GMT
>>>  I've never been one to follow rules blindly.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Take Care,
> Dudley

I once tried to make ten people smile by telling them ten different puns.
But, no pun in ten did

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Peter

Dudley Hanks - 27 Apr 2008 05:05 GMT
>> Crop lines, that is...
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> that although sometimes works most of the time
> does not!

When you shoot a picture with only 2% of normal vision, you are just happy
to get the subject in the shot.  Trust me, I've had many images much worse
than this one.

Besides, with programs like photoshop out there, a lot can be done with an
image like this.

One of the photographers who frequents this group asked me if he could use
the original to play with, and he sent me a niceley cropped portrait he
coaxed out of about a third of the image.  He up-sized it, sharpened it up a
bit, did a bit of other magic, and I've got a beautiful portrait to hang on
my wall.  He truly did a masterful job.

I'm hoping he won't mind if I post his finished work, but I don't want to do
it without his permission.

On the flip side, if I post the cropping, I'll have to apologize to Douglas,
Paul and a couple others who told me the shot would look better tightly
cropped, but to whom I wouldn't listen.  I had wanted the trees in as a
symbol of Dima's love of the outdoors, but, when my wife saw the
Photoshopped, tightly cropped portrait oriented shot of Dima, she fell in
love with it.  I trust her taste, so, when she says it will match the shot I
have of my first guide, Bonner on the beach, I'll have to bow to the
overwhelming tide of opinion.

Take Care,
Dudley
Jeff - 05 May 2008 17:57 GMT
> Crop lines, that is...
>
> http://www.geocities.com/hanks.dudley/Dima.html
>
> Thanks,
> Dudley

 Wow, lots of comments.

  Let's go over a few almost universal rules though.

  The eye is drawn to bright ares. On this image you have white areas
on the edges of the image that take you out of the picture. Any cropping
you do should get rid of these.

  Generally with a live "action" subject you should give it some room
to move. I'm not sure what I would do here. Get a couple sheets of white
paper and crop out the image with these and see what you think. Try all
possibilities.

  The background is distracting. Do what others have already suggested.
Or open up your editor and mask off the background and do something with
it. Blur it, lower the contrast, darken it, something. Once you have a
mask you can try everything.

  You have areas in the dog that are blown out and have lost detail.
Perhaps a third of a stop less exposure might have kept them. You may
wish to clone in a bit of fur. In general, you should not have blown out
highlights (along edges is often OK) . You can always adjust the picture
in your editor to bring the image back where you want it. Caveats apply.

  Get rid of the red eye. Desaturate this in your editor and perhaps
add a catch light. Eyes are very important.

 What you really need to do is shoot more pictures. This is not a
strong image. You have a digital camera and no film cost. Take lots and
lots of images, try it with the dog moving. Try it in different places.
Then open up a slideshow and look at all of them and see what you like.

  Jeff
Dudley Hanks - 06 May 2008 05:47 GMT
>   You have areas in the dog that are blown out and have lost detail.
> Perhaps a third of a stop less exposure might have kept them.

As an all but blind photographer, this is the most useful piece of advice \i
can extract from your comments.  It tells me that the camera slightly
over-metered the lighting setup I used.  Given a similar setup in the
future, I'll set my exposure compensation to under-expose by 2/3 stop -- I
used -1/3 stop for the pic.

That bit of info is quite valuable to me.

To all of Dimaa's fans out there, I regretfully write that she passed away
on Saturday.  She held her head high till the end.\\Thanks for all your
support.

Take Care,
Dudley\
Frank ess - 06 May 2008 06:16 GMT
>>   You have areas in the dog that are blown out and have lost
>> detail. Perhaps a third of a stop less exposure might have kept
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Take Care,
> Dudley\

I'm sorry for your loss. Dima will live on in my memory.

Signature

Frank ess

Paul Furman - 06 May 2008 06:17 GMT
>>   You have areas in the dog that are blown out and have lost detail.
>> Perhaps a third of a stop less exposure might have kept them.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> on Saturday.  She held her head high till the end.\\Thanks for all your
> support.

Looks like she had a good life.

> Take Care,
> Dudley\

Signature

Paul Furman
www.edgehill.net
www.baynatives.com

all google groups messages filtered due to spam

Dudley Hanks - 06 May 2008 06:55 GMT
>>>   You have areas in the dog that are blown out and have lost detail.
>>> Perhaps a third of a stop less exposure might have kept them.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Looks like she had a good life.

Yes, she really was an incredible dog.

I'm setting up a new web site, and there will be a tribute to Dima on it,
including the picture Vance did the post processing on.

The eerie part is that, as we were taking Dima to the emergency clinic,
Norman Greenbaum provided the most appropriate soun-track imaginable via FM
radio -- his timeless classic "Spirit in the Sky."  Probably the most
surreal experience I've ever had.

Take care, Paul, maybe I'll get to do coffee with you and Vance if I end up
in San Francisco for my next guide.Dudley
Vance - 06 May 2008 21:28 GMT
> >>>   You have areas in the dog that are blown out and have lost detail.
> >>> Perhaps a third of a stop less exposure might have kept them.
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Dima's passing was inevitable, but I feel your loss for a friend that
played such a special role.  If you do get to San Francisco for your
next guide, I would love to sit down with you and Paul and have a cup
of coffee to Dima's memory.

Regards,
Vance
Jeff - 06 May 2008 11:39 GMT
>>   You have areas in the dog that are blown out and have lost detail.
>> Perhaps a third of a stop less exposure might have kept them.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> That bit of info is quite valuable to me.

It's not a hard fast rule, but generally you want to keep detail in the
highlights.

  Most cameras have histograms, and you can see if the highlights are
chopped off. Even easier, many will show clipped highlights by flashing
on and off the area that is being clipped.

 There's a lot of different ways that a camera can meter exposure, but
checking the exposure for clipping is ultimately what you want.

  With all that said, don't worry so much about technical issues. An
imperfect image that makes an emotional connection is always better than
a technically perfect image that does not. Shoot the way you see and
feel things. Shoot with the intent of showing people your life. There's
a lot of beautiful and technically correct images, there's very few
images that "tell a story".

  You are not the same as most other photographers, you do not have to
shoot the same way. Think outside the box. Think of images that please
yourself.

> To all of Dimaa's fans out there, I regretfully write that she passed away
> on Saturday.  She held her head high till the end.\\Thanks for all your
> support.

I'm sorry to hear about this loss. I buried a favorite cat about the
same time. As much as I miss "Spot", I could not have had the connection
that you had with Dimaa.

  Jeff

> Take Care,
> Dudley\
Rita Berkowitz - 06 May 2008 11:56 GMT
> To all of Dimaa's fans out there, I regretfully write that she passed
> away on Saturday.  She held her head high till the end.\\Thanks for
> all your support.

My condolences.  I'm glad you guys had a great life together and that she
was so lucky to have someone love her as much as you.  Best wishes.

Rita
George Kerby - 06 May 2008 14:46 GMT
On 5/5/08 11:47 PM, in article apRTj.770$Yp.618@edtnps92, "Dudley Hanks"
<hanks.dudley@gmail.com> wrote:

> To all of Dimaa's fans out there, I regretfully write that she passed away
> on Saturday.  She held her head high till the end.\\Thanks for all your
> support.
>
> Take Care,
> Dudley\

So sorry to hear that news.

I am sure that she was surrounded with love from you and your family. The
coming days will be rough on you, but the fond memories of Dima will keep
you strong.

Best wishes, Dudley.
Peter - 06 May 2008 23:26 GMT
>>   You have areas in the dog that are blown out and have lost detail.
>> Perhaps a third of a stop less exposure might have kept them.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> on Saturday.  She held her head high till the end.\\Thanks for all your
> support.

Even a simple pet becomes like family.
She was more than your friend and family. I wish you well in your sad time.

Signature

Peter

Tzortzakakis Dimitrios - 12 May 2008 15:27 GMT
>>   You have areas in the dog that are blown out and have lost detail.
>> Perhaps a third of a stop less exposure might have kept them.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> on Saturday.  She held her head high till the end.\\Thanks for all your
> support.

I'm very sorry about that, Dudley. I'm posting right now a nice photo of my
godmother's new puppy, Liza.
(www.esnips.com/web/dimtzortzsPhotos)
I don't have a pet right now, though.

Signature

Tzortzakakis Dimitrios
major in electrical engineering
mechanized infantry reservist
hordad AT otenet DOT gr
NB:I killfile googlegroups.

 
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