Which digicam best fits the bill?

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Reestit Mutton - 27 Jan 2004 14:46 GMT

Hi,

I've just got rid of my Nikon Coolpix 2500 with a view to upgrading.
Things that annoyed me most about the Nikon were:

(1) redeye problems
(2) annoying red-eye reduction implementation (3 flashes which always
put the subject off- they think the photo's already taken when it isn't)
(3) no focus assist

So my new camera has to have the following:

(1) Minimum 4MP resolution
(2) minimum 3x optical zoom
(3) focus assist lamp
(4) noise reduction
(5) manual control (aperture/exposure)
(6) decent redeye-reduction flash implementation
(7) small size (one thing I really liked about my Nikon was its ability
to be slipped into your pocket - it got a lot more useage that way).
(8) must come packaged with a rechargeable battery (with charger).

Now, my budget is approx. £250. I know it's a tall order but what do you
guys think the best options are at this price point that meet the above
spec.

I've looked at a number of obvious sites for contenders and I think I've
narrowed it down to an Olympus C40/C50 or Canon S45/S50 - does anyone
have any views on which of these is the better camera? Or...are there
other suitable options that I've overlooked?

BTW...before you point me in that direction, I've already looked at the
obvious camera review sites before coming to the above conclusions.

ta,
RM

Signature

Nikon Coolpix 4300 (4MP) digital camera --- only £238.99
Where can I find this deal?
http://www.lauriem.plus.com/bargain_basement.html

Reply to this Message

Povl H. Pedersen - 27 Jan 2004 17:09 GMT

> So my new camera has to have the following:
>
> (1) Minimum 4MP resolution
> (2) minimum 3x optical zoom

Both are standard

> (3) focus assist lamp

Why ? You can always add a mall LED lamp to the camera.
Better cameras like the Canon EOS 300D uses the flash as FA.

> (4) noise reduction

You already had that in the 2500 as far as I know (just bought one of
those brand new for £90 at a sale as backup/pocket camera)

> (5) manual control (aperture/exposure)

Then you are starting to et into trouble.

> (6) decent redeye-reduction flash implementation

Most Canons has problems here.

> (7) small size (one thing I really liked about my Nikon was its ability
> to be slipped into your pocket - it got a lot more useage that way).
> (8) must come packaged with a rechargeable battery (with charger).

Probably only option if you want compact.

Try the buying guide at http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare.asp

Only current options I can find according to your criteria are both
approx $400. And they are Coolpix 4300 and Canon S45.
Not sure about FA light in either.

> Now, my budget is approx. £250. I know it's a tall order but what do you
> guys think the best options are at this price point that meet the above
> spec.

Best price at www.ciao.co.uk for the CP 4300 is £285,15
For the S45 it is £346,44.

> I've looked at a number of obvious sites for contenders and I think I've
> narrowed it down to an Olympus C40/C50 or Canon S45/S50 - does anyone
> have any views on which of these is the better camera? Or...are there
> other suitable options that I've overlooked?

Nikon CoolPix 4300.
The Olympus has the shortest range zoom, only 2.8x. Uses smartmedia,
so you can't use existing memory. Uses normal batteries (2xAA, not included).

> BTW...before you point me in that direction, I've already looked at the
> obvious camera review sites before coming to the above conclusions.

If you like zoom, the Olympus 730/740/750 are also interesting cameras.

I have the 2500 for backup (downgrading from CP 4500 which I liked a lot
apart from size), and Canon EOS 300D as primary.

Reply to this Message

Reestit Mutton - 27 Jan 2004 17:42 GMT

>>(3) focus assist lamp
>
> Why ? You can always add a mall LED lamp to the camera.
> Better cameras like the Canon EOS 300D uses the flash as FA.

I don't want to faff around when the photo needs to be taken.

>>(4) noise reduction
>
> You already had that in the 2500 as far as I know (just bought one of
> those brand new for £90 at a sale as backup/pocket camera)

really...I never saw any mention of it and, being the cynic that I am, I
belive no mention of it means it isn't there.

>>(5) manual control (aperture/exposure)
>
> Then you are starting to get into trouble.

Why? I don't *have* to use them but it would be nice to experiment with 'em.

> Probably only option if you want compact.
>
> Try the buying guide at http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare.asp

Thanks, but I've looked at this site already and just wanted some
further reassurance/guidance from users based on my criteria and initial
camera choice.

> Only current options I can find according to your criteria are both
> approx $400. And they are Coolpix 4300 and Canon S45.
> Not sure about FA light in either.

The S45 was one of my choices.
Does the 4300 have manual controls and noise reduction?

>>Now, my budget is approx. £250. I know it's a tall order but what do you
>>guys think the best options are at this price point that meet the above
>>spec.
>
> Best price at www.ciao.co.uk for the CP 4300 is £285,15
> For the S45 it is £346,44.

Actually, the CP4300 best price is a shade under £240 (from Camers 2 U)
or, failing that, Jessops currently has it for under £250. Surprisingly,
the cheapest price for a S45 is only about £270 from Digital Depot.

Ironically, I advertised the price of the 4300 in the sig of my OP (as
it happens, I maintain a webpage full of consumer technology bargains,
including digital cameras)

>>I've looked at a number of obvious sites for contenders and I think I've
>>narrowed it down to an Olympus C40/C50 or Canon S45/S50 - does anyone
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> The Olympus has the shortest range zoom, only 2.8x. Uses smartmedia,
> so you can't use existing memory. Uses normal batteries (2xAA, not included).

How do the Nikon and Canon compare in the size/shape stakes? - I was
never sure about the styling of the 4300 in terms of ease of pocketability.

> I have the 2500 for backup (downgrading from CP 4500 which I liked a lot
> apart from size), and Canon EOS 300D as primary.

BTW...where did you get your 2500 for under £100 from? If it's available
on teh web (and new) I'd like to add it to my bargains site as I think
it's a very good camera for the money!

regards,
RM

Signature

Memory Stick --- 128MB = £31, 256MB = £55, 512MB = £150
Where can I find this deal?
http://www.lauriem.plus.com/bargain_basement.html

Reply to this Message

Stephen Leslie - 27 Jan 2004 22:06 GMT

Hi RM,

If you can find a helpful Jessops assistant, they may be able to trace a
Canon S40, which when I finished working there last week was at ?199.90 new.
The only thing is finding out if there are actually any left in the company
and getting one transferred to your local branch.

Cheers,
Stephen

> >>(3) focus assist lamp
> >
[quoted text clipped - 72 lines]
> Where can I find this deal?
> http://www.lauriem.plus.com/bargain_basement.html

Reply to this Message

Reestit Mutton - 27 Jan 2004 22:47 GMT

> Hi RM,
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Cheers,
> Stephen

Thanks Stephen...very interesting.

I know I can probably look this up with a bit of effort but...can you
tell me what improvements (if any) have been made by Canon in the S45
model. I'd like to be able to judge whether the differences are worth
the additional £60-£70.

It's also worthy of a footnote on my webpage for other peoples ebenfit.

regards,
RM

Signature

xD memory --- 128MB = £37, 256MB = £75, 512MB = £128
Where can I find this deal?
http://www.lauriem.plus.com/bargain_basement.html

Reply to this Message

Povl H. Pedersen - 27 Jan 2004 22:59 GMT

>> Why ? You can always add a mall LED lamp to the camera.
>> Better cameras like the Canon EOS 300D uses the flash as FA.
>
> I don't want to faff around when the photo needs to be taken.

My Canon CP 4500 was better without AF lamp than quite a few Canon models
with it. So I was happy. Would focus at the light of one candle indoor.
There might be unit to unit differences as others have complained.

>>>(4) noise reduction
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> really...I never saw any mention of it and, being the cynic that I am, I
> belive no mention of it means it isn't there.

Checked the manual. Requires slow shutter (like on most digicams),
so night landscape / night portrait modes only. Generally it is there,
but on small CCD digicams it sucks compared to larger sensors. The new
Sony F828 is an example. And it has a list price of $899.

>>>(5) manual control (aperture/exposure)
>>
>> Then you are starting to get into trouble.
>
> Why? I don't *have* to use them but it would be nice to experiment with 'em.

I liked it a lot on my CP 4500. But it is still considered a higher end
feature. On my 300D I am in Apterture Priority most of the time.

>> Probably only option if you want compact.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> further reassurance/guidance from users based on my criteria and initial
> camera choice.

Generally, Canon and Nikon is good. Had one Minolta for a few days,
and returned it. Did not like the colors. It was the S400, which was
fast. Olympus has good rep too. And Sony usually leaves out most manual
settings, as they expect lower end buyers.

>> Only current options I can find according to your criteria are both
>> approx $400. And they are Coolpix 4300 and Canon S45.
>> Not sure about FA light in either.
>
> The S45 was one of my choices.
> Does the 4300 have manual controls and noise reduction?

Both. But all that noise reduction does on digicams is eliminate
hotpixels. Real noise elimination is done on the PC in Noise Ninja
or Neat Image.

> Actually, the CP4300 best price is a shade under £240 (from Camers 2 U)
> or, failing that, Jessops currently has it for under £250. Surprisingly,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> it happens, I maintain a webpage full of consumer technology bargains,
> including digital cameras)

You might also consider buying used. Might get you more memory,
bag etc included for lower cost.

>>>I've looked at a number of obvious sites for contenders and I think I've
>>>narrowed it down to an Olympus C40/C50 or Canon S45/S50 - does anyone
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> How do the Nikon and Canon compare in the size/shape stakes? - I was
> never sure about the styling of the 4300 in terms of ease of pocketability.

The Canon S-series is somewhat larger than the Ixus. The Canon 4300
is fairly small, but more square rather than long like the Canon S45
or the CP 2500 you know.

>> I have the 2500 for backup (downgrading from CP 4500 which I liked a lot
>> apart from size), and Canon EOS 300D as primary.
>
> BTW...where did you get your 2500 for under £100 from? If it's available
> on teh web (and new) I'd like to add it to my bargains site as I think
> it's a very good camera for the money!

I am living in Denmark. A large Radio/TV chain called FONA (owned
by Thorn EMI) sold it for DKK 998 incl. 25% VAT = 92.57 pounds.
Clearing their stock. Couldn't say no at that price, and all were sold
out in the first couple days.

Reply to this Message

Simon Waldman - 27 Jan 2004 23:46 GMT

> Why ? You can always add a mall LED lamp to the camera.
> Better cameras like the Canon EOS 300D uses the flash as FA.

I don't see this as a good thing - it annoys the subjects if they're
expecting it, it alerts them if they're not, and it prevents autofocus
in darkish environments where you can't use flash.

Give me an infra-red LED any day :-)
(I have been known to walk around with a flashgun attached to my EOS 300
simply for the IR illuminator and not use the flash)

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