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Photo Forum / General Photo Topics / UK Photography / January 2004

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Wow - this Canon EF300mm f2.8 IS is a beast!!

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Sorby - 24 Jan 2004 21:45 GMT
I arranged to hire this 300mm lens from Calumet and went to their Birmingham
office to collect it yesterday.
Unfortunately head-office had sent the wrong lens (300mm f4.0 as opposed to
f2.8).
All credit to them for arranging to have the correct lens posted to my home
address by 9am today. They also let me take the f4.0 with me just in case
the f2.8 didn't turn up.

Happily the f2.8 item did arrive this morning.and boy what a monster! After
removing the comical lens cover and tentatively fitting the hood I set it
down on the table and circled it pensively as it sneered back at me - almost
saying "Don't waste my time, amateur!!"

Just handling a lens of that size requires skill and dexterity. I'm
conscious that its weight might but a large amount of strain on the camera
body if not supported correctly.

My weedy budget tripod & monopod groan under the combined weight of lens,
camera & battery/grip.

And all this before I even shoot a frame!

I've had a play with it quite a bit today and am realising that, despite the
excellent IS, *I* can't hand-hold it and expect great results. So I'm going
to have to rely on the 'pods for the horse-jumping event tomorrow.

A very nice feature of this lens is the ability to have the lens memorise a
focal distance and revert to that focal distance at the twist of a ring
(just in front of the manual focussing ring).

My fears for tomorrow are obviously that I might end up with a load of crap
shots - from selecting too slow a shutter speed or too wide an aperture
setting.
The rule of thumb 1/focal length will help me select my shutter speed
(perhaps going to 1/250th  or 1/125th? since I'll have the IS on mostly) but
I need to work out what aperture setting to use such that I get sufficient
DOF.  Once I've determined these two values I guess the final bit of the
jigsaw is choosing the ISO speed. I'm hoping I won't have to go above 800 as
1600 gives noticeable (but not nasty) grain.

Anyone else here got the 300mm f2.8 and/or would care to offer some
last-minute advice?

Cheers

Signature

Sorby

John - 24 Jan 2004 22:13 GMT
I don't have a 300/2.8 IS but would like to point out that you must consider
your subject when choosing the shutter speed, rather than your ability to
hold the lens. That is, you might be able to hand hold such a lens as low
1/60th but your subject (fast moving horses) require a minimum of 1/250th to
be rendered sharply. This is a bit of a trap with IS, yes you can use low
shutter speeds but your subject may not allow it. On the other hand you can
also achieve fantastic pans with such a slow shutter speed, allowing some
blur in the subject and background, to show drama, but hopefully a sharp
enough subject (see any good car magazine to see what I'm talking about).
JJ
> I arranged to hire this 300mm lens from Calumet and went to their Birmingham
> office to collect it yesterday.
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
> --
> Sorby
Sorby - 24 Jan 2004 22:24 GMT
Thanks JJ - good point - unfortunately I've never shot horses before so I'll
be flying by the seat of my pants tomorrow. Hopefully it won't take me too
long to find a minimum shutter speed that works.

Happily I've done quite a bit of panning as my usual subjects are
motorbikes. However, my extended family are real horse people but *every*
photograph I've ever seen of one of them on a horse has been totaly static -
i.e. no motion blur.
To a large extent this is very common with motorcycle trackday photography.
Perhaps it's a niche market? Or maybe nobody wants it?

Thanks again

Signature

Sorby

> I don't have a 300/2.8 IS but would like to point out that you must consider
> your subject when choosing the shutter speed, rather than your ability to
[quoted text clipped - 64 lines]
> > --
> > Sorby
Ren? Ernst Nielsen - 24 Jan 2004 22:37 GMT
However, my extended family are real horse people but *every*
> photograph I've ever seen of one of them on a horse has been totaly static -
> i.e. no motion blur.
> Thanks again

Here is a little inspiration:

http://www.popphoto.com/assets/download/1142004111233.pdf
Sorby - 24 Jan 2004 23:30 GMT
> However, my extended family are real horse people but *every*
> > photograph I've ever seen of one of them on a horse has been totaly
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> http://www.popphoto.com/assets/download/1142004111233.pdf

Thanks Ren? !   That winning shot is fantastic but I doubt I'll risk getting
quite so close to the action!

Signature

Sorby

Povl H. Pedersen - 24 Jan 2004 23:00 GMT
> Just handling a lens of that size requires skill and dexterity. I'm
> conscious that its weight might but a large amount of strain on the camera
> body if not supported correctly.

Cameras are not designed to carry heavy lenses. But heavy lenses are
designed to carry cameras. So fit the lens rather than the camera
to the tripod.

> My fears for tomorrow are obviously that I might end up with a load of crap
> shots - from selecting too slow a shutter speed or too wide an aperture
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Anyone else here got the 300mm f2.8 and/or would care to offer some
> last-minute advice?

Do NOT use IS on a tripod, unlkess the tripod moves all the time.
IS is NOT designed for use on tripods.

Since you want action pics, stay at 1/250 or faster. Or if on a
10D or 300D, remember the 1.6 factor, and try to stay at 1/500s.
Sorby - 24 Jan 2004 23:36 GMT
> > Just handling a lens of that size requires skill and dexterity. I'm
> > conscious that its weight might but a large amount of strain on the camera
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> designed to carry cameras. So fit the lens rather than the camera
> to the tripod.

Thanks Povl - luckily I alread knew that! :o)

> > My fears for tomorrow are obviously that I might end up with a load of crap
> > shots - from selecting too slow a shutter speed or too wide an aperture
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Do NOT use IS on a tripod, unlkess the tripod moves all the time.
> IS is NOT designed for use on tripods.

Ok - I didn't know that - but I suppose it makes sense.

> Since you want action pics, stay at 1/250 or faster. Or if on a
> 10D or 300D, remember the 1.6 factor, and try to stay at 1/500s.

I'm not so sure that the 1.6 factor increases the minimum shutter speed
required.
The CMOS sensor is no further away from the subject than the film would be.

Can anyone confirm?

Signature

Sorby

Tim Hobbs - 25 Jan 2004 00:01 GMT
>I'm not so sure that the 1.6 factor increases the minimum shutter speed
>required.
>The CMOS sensor is no further away from the subject than the film would be.
>
>Can anyone confirm?

I know what you are thinking...  

A movement of, say 1mm, will have identical effects on the small
sensor as on the larger film area.  If you crop a photograph it
doesn't increase the camera shake, and that is all that the 10D is
effectively doing.

However, that movement amounts to a much greater percentage of the
frame area, so I would say you DO need to take account of the 1.6
factor.

HTH

--
Tim Hobbs

Barcoding?  http://www.bartec-systems.com
Land Rovers?  http://www.seriesii.co.uk
Neil Barker - 25 Jan 2004 10:26 GMT
> Happily the f2.8 item did arrive this morning.and boy what a monster!
> After removing the comical lens cover and tentatively fitting the hood I
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> My weedy budget tripod & monopod groan under the combined weight of lens,
> camera & battery/grip.

That's not surprising. Such can be a weighty combination.

After a day spent at Donington Park carrying a pair of D1Hs around with a
Nikon 300mm F2.8 AFSII and a 70-200 F2.8 VR lens, my arms generally know
it. It's something you do get used to though, with practise.

Mind you, modern lens design and materials make the current breed of 300mm
lenses and upwards actually lighter than their predecessors. The Nikon
AFSII lens that I have is constructed with Magnesium alloys to make it
lighter than the older 300mm lenses.

Next, you want to try holding a body with a 600mm F4 fitted to it....

Signature

Neil Barker

Peter Robinson - 26 Jan 2004 14:44 GMT
So...

are we going to see the results Sorby?

Peter

--
Sorby - 26 Jan 2004 16:15 GMT
> So...
>
> are we going to see the results Sorby?

Heh - of course..   www.dunsford.org

I'm not overly delighted with the results - but I've learned a lot.

I'll post again later today when I've more time - it was quite an eventful
day!

Signature

Sorby

Freemale - 27 Jan 2004 03:11 GMT
> > So...
> >
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> --
> Sorby

Experience always seems to cost money. Hope it never cost you any never
again to be repeated photos !
Peter Robinson - 27 Jan 2004 15:14 GMT
> Heh - of course..   www.dunsford.org

Pretty good, especially for a first attempt. I've seen a lot worse from
experienced 'professionals'. Your view point seems a bit high. Were you
in a stand or something?

Your galleries could do with sorting though. You have grey ponies in the
bay gallery, mostly bays in the black gallery and mostly bays in the
chesnut gallery as well (in the horsey world, chesnut is the usual
spelling rather than chestnut). Chesnuts have the same colour mane and
tail as the body, bays have darker manes and tails. Blacks are often
called greys so you could put the black ones in the grey gallery.

Do you see what I mean about exposure and dark coloured horses?

A good job. Are you planning to do some more?

--
Sorby - 27 Jan 2004 22:03 GMT
> > Heh - of course..   www.dunsford.org
>
> Pretty good, especially for a first attempt. I've seen a lot worse from
> experienced 'professionals'. Your view point seems a bit high. Were you
> in a stand or something?

Thanks Peter. Yes - the 300mm lens forced me to shoot from the top of a
bank. The other 3 boundaries consisted of messy high hedges & trees.
Do you think the high viewpoint is undesirable? [1]

> Your galleries could do with sorting though. You have grey ponies in the
> bay gallery, mostly bays in the black gallery and mostly bays in the
> chesnut gallery as well (in the horsey world, chesnut is the usual
> spelling rather than chestnut). Chesnuts have the same colour mane and
> tail as the body, bays have darker manes and tails. Blacks are often
> called greys so you could put the black ones in the grey gallery.

Thanks for the tips - it still seems as clear as mud though!
It was such a shame the day wasn't organised a bit better - half the
entrants weren't issued with numbers and there was no Tannoy speaker system
so I couldn't hear any names read out. So grouping the horses by colour
seemd the best option.

> Do you see what I mean about exposure and dark coloured horses?

Yes. I used centre-weighted metering which obviously caused some
over-exposure at times.

> A good job. Are you planning to do some more?

Thanks. Yes! I've been asked to shoot two more at the same venue and a few
people asked me if I'd visit them at home to shoot some candid shots of
their kids & horses.

Now I just need to decide whether to keep on renting decent lenses or push
the boat out and buy something.  The 70-200mm f2.8 L IS USM seems like a
better bet for these sort of fairly informal, small-scale events.

Signature

Sorby

Peter Robinson - 28 Jan 2004 08:57 GMT
> Thanks Peter. Yes - the 300mm lens forced me to shoot from the top of a
> bank. The other 3 boundaries consisted of messy high hedges & trees.
> Do you think the high viewpoint is undesirable? [1]

Without seeing the result, I would have said yes, but in fact, it's
helped to eliminate some of that 'messy' background. I still think you
would be better off in the ring using a shorter lens though.

Peter

--
Mike Groves - 28 Jan 2004 09:40 GMT
>Now I just need to decide whether to keep on renting decent lenses or push
>the boat out and buy something.  The 70-200mm f2.8 L IS USM seems like a
>better bet for these sort of fairly informal, small-scale events.

How much was the 70-300mm lens to hire?

Mike
Sorby - 28 Jan 2004 10:17 GMT
> >Now I just need to decide whether to keep on renting decent lenses or push
> >the boat out and buy something.  The 70-200mm f2.8 L IS USM seems like a
> >better bet for these sort of fairly informal, small-scale events.
>
> How much was the 70-300mm lens to hire?

Hi Mike

The lens I hired was a 300mm f2.8 telephoto lens. It cost ?71.25 + ?9.26
(insurance) + VAT - so ?94.60 in total.

This is basically 1.5x their daily rate - which isn't bad considering I
could have picked the lens up any time on Friday and returned it before 10am
on Monday.

They don't hire out a 70-300mm lens - did you mean 70-200? They do both the
f4.0n (?19.00 per day) & f2.8 (?27.50 per day) but not with IS.

You can see all their hire charges here in the following .pdf file..
http://www.calumetphoto.com/resources/images/pdfs/RentalCat_UK.pdf

I don't think I'll make a habit of renting lenses as it certainly eats into
the profits!  I'm glad I did it for this first event though.
I think Calumet (and other places) give you 50% of your hire charge back if
you buy the product (presumably not the used hire model) within 14 days. Not
a massive incentive, granted.

I've also used London Camera Exchange (LCE) in Southampton before and been
very satisfied.

Signature

Sorby

Sorby - 26 Jan 2004 23:12 GMT
<snip stuff about hiring a 300mm lens for a show jumping event>

> Anyone else here got the 300mm f2.8 and/or would care to offer some
> last-minute advice?

Thought I'd share my self-debrief with you after shooting the show jumping
event :

Who was it that said the 300mm lens would be too long?

I turned up at the equestrian centre on time, found the organiser,
introduced myself politely and asked if she had any rules about where I
could or couldn't shoot from. I asked for an entry list and copy of the
programme so I could see how the day was going to pan out.  The first
problem was that, despite being told the event was to be held outdoors the
organiser insisted it was being held indoors. It seemed criminal on such a
lovely sunny day. I wasn't *too* worried as I knew I could go to 1600 (and
even 3200) with my 10D.  But when I got inside the arena I my heart sank -
it was dismally dark with the odd sliver of extreme sun-light puncturing the
gloom.  Not only that but 3 of the 4 arena boundaries were high walls with
no access - so I was limited to shooting from one end of the arena.  My
concerns were compounded after I set my kit up when I realised the 300mm
lens (480mm with the 1.6 focal magnification) meant I couldn't get even the
furthest fence into the frame.

Out came my consumer lenses whose woeful maximum aperture meant that I
couldn't use a fast enough shutter speed to freeze the action - even at ISO
1600! At 3200 the grain was evident even in the tiny 1.8" LCD screen so I
knew that was a non-starter.

I realised it was a waste of time and resolved to pack up after a
polystyrene cuppa.

I was surprised that my sister-in-law hadn't arrived with her horse-box so I
phoned her, partly out of concern and partly to break the news that I
wouldn't be shooting anything else today.

"Where are you?" I asked.
"We're here! At the event. Where are you?" she replied.
"I'm here too - but I can't see your wagon anywhere!" I exclaim.
"Oh well. I'm sure we'll bump into you soon enough.  Taken lots of good
photos?"
"No - you told me the event was outdoors but, as you now know, it's indoors,
so it's too dark too shoot."
"INDOORS? Nooo! It's outdoors - there isn't an indoor arena here!"
"But... I'm in the arena now!"
"Where are you Rob?!"
"I'm at <riding school X>"
"WHAT?!! You're supposed to be at <riding school Y> !!"

So - yes, my 300mm lens was too long - but also too short - by about 25
miles. :o)

I raced over to the proper venue to find the event well under way, outdoors,
bathing in glorious sunlight.
Unfortunately news of my ineptitude travelled faster than my car and even
the gigglinh staff on the car-park gate had heard about me and ushered me to
a space with an urgency and efficiency more deserving of an ambulance or
fire-engine!

The rest of the day passed fairly uneventfully.  I discovered it's very
difficult to concentrate on the job in hand when grown men with lens-envy
keep coming up to you and asking questions and wanting a look through the
viewfinder!

Since uploading the photos late this afternoon I've had several decent
orders and offers of other events to shoot.

Thanks to you lot for your supportive & sagely advice.

p.s. I mentioned in another post that I wasn't overly happy with the
resulting photos. Basically I found that once I'd transferred the images to
my home PC many weren't quite as sharp as the camera's LCD display would
suggest.  I put this down to subconciously sacrificing shutter speed for
focal depth.   The IS on the hired 300mm lens is a dream - but perhaps it
lulled me into a false sense of security ?
I also learnt that both the tripod & monopod were useless and spent most of
the day hand-holding.  This wasn't quite as bad as I'd been lead to believe
and I didn't feel particularly uncomfortable.

Signature

Sorby

 
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