Photo Forum / General Photo Topics / UK Photography / August 2008
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Mike - 17 Jul 2008 21:12 GMT My new boss has asked me to research digital cameras before I start my job on the 1st Aug. We need a digital SLR camera which is ideal for taking photographs of furniture/interior decor in a prodominantly indoor studio enviroment (will less regularly be used to photograph pieces in a scene outdoors eg. focusing on furniture but with a landscape in background). This is a professional interior design company so high quality photographs are essential. This will require a good camera and any other necessary studio photography equiptment like reflection and flash light devices.
The budget is £1600-£2000 but this will have to cover the cost of all equiptment. My new boss already has 2x Calumet light stands so lights will need to be compatible with these. He also has paper rolls and a tripod but nothing else.
I have got the latest issue of Which camera which recommends a Nikon digital SLR but apart from that I don't know where to start.
The camera and equiptment will be used by my boss but more commonly me so it needs to be simple enough for us to learn how to use.
Any help with this mission would be very much appreciated.
Any Help Will Be Much Appreciated Linette
savvo - 18 Jul 2008 00:08 GMT > My new boss has asked me to research digital cameras before I start my > job on the 1st Aug. We need a digital SLR camera which is ideal for > taking photographs of furniture/interior decor in a prodominantly > indoor studio enviroment (will less regularly be used to photograph > pieces in a scene outdoors eg. focusing on furniture but with a > landscape in background). You also need to know how to use a digital SLR camera. Contrary to advertising / popular belief, photography is not now just a matter of buying an expensive camera and letting it work everything out for you.
> This is a professional interior design company So hire a professional photographer.
> high quality > photographs are essential. This will require a good camera and any > other necessary studio photography equiptment like reflection and > flash light devices. This will require someone with photographic competence.
> The budget is ?1600-?2000 but this will have to cover the cost of all > equiptment. My new boss already has 2x Calumet light stands so lights > will need to be compatible with these. He also has paper rolls and a > tripod but nothing else. A good two-head lighting set will set you back ~?1000. That doesn't leave much to buy SLR and lens, not to mention all those little bits and pieces to clamp stuff to other stuff, hang reflectors off etc.
Then there's the time you are going to waste shooting and reshooting trying to get things looking halfway reasonable.
> I have got the latest issue of Which camera which recommends a Nikon > digital SLR but apart from that I don't know where to start. Seriously. If your having to look in "Which Camera" for your research you really need to forget the idea and hire a photographer.
> The camera and equiptment will be used by my boss but more commonly > me so it needs to be simple enough for us to learn how to use. I think I've made my point. You won't produce any results that will reflect the professionalism of your interior design work without using a professional photographer.
> Any help with this mission would be very much appreciated. Good luck with it. I know your boss is going to refuse to hire a photographer and expect you to train yourself with whatever kit you end up with.
You will both regret it.
> Any Help Will Be Much Appreciated Hire a photographer. If you happen to be anywhere near Gateshead, hire me.
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David Kilpatrick - 18 Jul 2008 02:01 GMT >> My new boss has asked me to research digital cameras before I start my >> job on the 1st Aug. We need a digital SLR camera which is ideal for >> taking photographs of furniture/interior decor in a prodominantly >> indoor studio enviroment (will less regularly be used to photograph >> pieces in a scene outdoors eg. focusing on furniture but with a >> landscape in background).
> Hire a photographer. If you happen to be anywhere near Gateshead, hire > me. I could not agree more. Just the skill involved in understand how to compose and align interiors so that the image does not look imbalanced or skewed is something you can not learn without using a camera professionally for years - even some professionals never master it, and it helps to have done time using large format.
You won't even know how focal length affects the apparent shape and solidity of furniture (and therefore its apparent size and weight), how using lights (even only two) can create depth and texture, how to create shadows which look light real sunlight and eliminate dirty-looking shadows which look like crap studio lighting - etc etc etc.
Just to give you an example, a professional will know when to position the lights a long way from the camera and in the last place you would expect, and how to use a polariser to show the surface of materials like wood, glass, ceramics and plastics beautifully. And that polariser may not be on the camera, and it may cost more than your budget allows :-)
Use a professional - reserve your in-house camera for recording stuff which a professional can't be present to handle, like work in progress, the 'before' shots of before and after.
David
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savvo - 18 Jul 2008 11:54 GMT > <...the context fairy swoops in and leaves behind...>
>> Hire a photographer. If you happen to be anywhere near Gateshead, hire >> me. > > I could not agree more. Thankyou very much.
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Chris H - 18 Jul 2008 08:14 GMT >> My new boss has asked me to research digital cameras before I start my >> job on the 1st Aug. We need a digital SLR camera which is ideal for [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >A good two-head lighting set will set you back ~£1000. No it won't Calumet are doing some kits that are not expensive
>> I have got the latest issue of Which camera which recommends a Nikon >> digital SLR but apart from that I don't know where to start. >Seriously. If your having to look in "Which Camera" for your research >you really need to forget the idea and hire a photographer. Possibly. But it is where I started looking at the market.
>> The camera and equiptment will be used by my boss but more commonly >> me so it needs to be simple enough for us to learn how to use. > >I think I've made my point. You won't produce any results that will >reflect the professionalism of your interior design work without using a >professional photographer. Not true. You have no idea who good the OP will be when he gets his hands on a camera.
Try a Nikon D300 if you are leaning to Nikon. I am sure some one will suggest the Cannon equivalent.
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Rob Morley - 18 Jul 2008 10:44 GMT > Not true. You have no idea how good the OP will be when he gets his > hands on a camera. The basics of getting a properly exposed shot with reasonable composition aren't hard, but the subtleties of lighting can be a fair bit more demanding - I think I have quite a good eye for natural lighting but I freely admit to being pretty hopeless when it comes to using anything more complicated than a bit of fill flash.
Chris H - 18 Jul 2008 11:04 GMT >> Not true. You have no idea how good the OP will be when he gets his >> hands on a camera. >> >The basics of getting a properly exposed shot with reasonable >composition aren't hard, Very easy with modern DSLR's
>but the subtleties of lighting can be a fair >bit more demanding - This is true... also the knowledge on who to get certain effects
>I think I have quite a good eye for natural >lighting but I freely admit to being pretty hopeless when it comes to >using anything more complicated than a bit of fill flash. Me too. My product shots are mainly of electronics broads in a light tent
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John W. - 18 Jul 2008 11:47 GMT > Me too. My product shots are mainly of electronics broads in a light > tent Thanks for the smile - "electronics broads in a light tent" :-)
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Chris H - 18 Jul 2008 12:08 GMT >> Me too. My product shots are mainly of electronics broads in a light >> tent > >Thanks for the smile - "electronics broads in a light tent" :-) I know what I think I meant
PCB's my light tend it too small to get broads into. (Unless a contortionist)
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Grimly Curmudgeon - 14 Aug 2008 14:51 GMT We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember Chris H <chris@phaedsys.org> saying something like:
>Me too. My product shots are mainly of electronics broads in a light >tent Silicon sisters, well connected?
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Dave
Mike Coon - 14 Aug 2008 19:40 GMT > We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the > drugs began to take hold. I remember Chris H <chris@phaedsys.org> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Silicon sisters, well connected? And camp with it?
Mike.
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Chris H - 15 Aug 2008 07:44 GMT >> We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the >> drugs began to take hold. I remember Chris H <chris@phaedsys.org> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >And camp with it?
:-)
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savvo - 18 Jul 2008 11:52 GMT >>> My new boss has asked me to research digital cameras before I start my >>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > No it won't > Calumet are doing some kits that are not expensive Read the whole sentence. I said a _good_ two-head lighting set. Yes, you can get a cheap Interfit set for ?3-400. It _will_ fall apart after 3-4 location shoots.
>>> I have got the latest issue of Which camera which recommends a Nikon >>> digital SLR but apart from that I don't know where to start. >>Seriously. If your having to look in "Which Camera" for your research >>you really need to forget the idea and hire a photographer. > > Possibly. But it is where I started looking at the market. Yes. It's a good way to get up-to-speed with what's on the market and what some journalist thinks of it. But if it's your first port of call on a research project to set up a professional photographic studio, you'll save a lot of time, money and frustration by hiring someone to do take your photographs for you.
>>> The camera and equiptment will be used by my boss but more commonly >>> me so it needs to be simple enough for us to learn how to use. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Not true. You know, if I didn't have years of knowing, from the embedded fora, that you're quite a reasonable, intelligent chap, your recent photographic postings would be leading me to the opinion that you really are an ignorant, arrogant arse.
> You have no idea who good the OP will be when he gets his > hands on a camera. No. But I have a fair idea of what is actually involved in producing acceptable photographic images of location interiors in an acceptable timescale. Having a flair for composition is only the start of a very big job.
> Try a Nikon D300 if you are leaning to Nikon. I am sure some one will > suggest the Cannon equivalent. Or a D200, D80, EOS30D for several hundred pounds less. The choice of camera, as long as it's rugged enough to stand a bit of travelling without crapping out at the most inopportune moment, is the least of the problems at hand.
 Signature savvo orig. invib. man
Chris H - 18 Jul 2008 15:11 GMT >>>> My new boss has asked me to research digital cameras before I start my >>>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >can get a cheap Interfit set for £3-400. It _will_ fall apart after 3-4 >location shoots. I have the Interfit tungsten heads that we use for photographic work (mainly with the light tent) also for lighting at exhibitions. They are on reasonable 3 metre air damped Calumet stands not the interfit ones.
They are probably not what you need for 5 days a week studio work
>>>> I have got the latest issue of Which camera which recommends a Nikon >>>> digital SLR but apart from that I don't know where to start. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >you'll save a lot of time, money and frustration by hiring someone to do >take your photographs for you. Hmm it depends how fast you learn. Though if you are "a professional interior design company" you do need to get it right and there is more to it than just pointing a very capable automatic DSLR
It's not so much the quality of the pictures in sharpness and colour but the composition. That is an art. If you have the artistic touch you could probably get good photos from a modern DSLR.
>>>> The camera and equiptment will be used by my boss but more commonly >>>> me so it needs to be simple enough for us to learn how to use. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >photographic postings would be leading me to the opinion that you really >are an ignorant, arrogant arse. They may be able to do it. Though all the professional high end designers I know (Ok I only know a couple of people in that sort of field) would have just called a pro photographer without even thinking of doing the pics themselves. So reading between the lines horses for courses?
Of course it could he that the boss wants to buy some camera kit on the company and is simply concocting a reason why .
>> You have no idea who good the OP will be when he gets his >> hands on a camera. > >No. But I have a fair idea of what is actually involved in producing >acceptable photographic images of location interiors in an acceptable >timescale. That is usually fun I would think... many people with conflicting schedules and things to do.
> Having a flair for composition is only the start of a very >big job. That is the important thing. No matter how good the kit. The best camera in the world (a Nikon, obviously :-) will take technically good photos and in hi res, accurate colour etc but the composition and lighting is up to the person taking the shot
>> Try a Nikon D300 if you are leaning to Nikon. I am sure some one will >> suggest the Cannon equivalent. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >without crapping out at the most inopportune moment, is the least of the >problems at hand. I forget the D200.... just looked around There are some good deals on the D200 at the moment. Almost giving it away. Considering it was "the camera" a year or two back it might be worth snapping one up as a spare or upgrade from a lesser D**
As you say a D80 would probably be OK
Of course it could he that the boss wants to buy some camera kit on the company and is simply concocting a reason why
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Trev - 18 Jul 2008 11:58 GMT >>> My new boss has asked me to research digital cameras before I start >>> my job on the 1st Aug. We need a digital SLR camera which is ideal [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > Try a Nikon D300 if you are leaning to Nikon. I am sure some one will > suggest the Cannon equivalent. He is going to need a shift lens at least taking photos of furniture that you want to sell means The have to look Square not with sloping and out of proportion sides. Its a job for a technical camera with tilt and shift. giving a DSL to just anyone will not do
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Rob Morley - 18 Jul 2008 12:46 GMT > He is going to need a shift lens at least taking photos of furniture > that you want to sell means The have to look Square not with sloping > and out of proportion sides. Its a job for a technical camera with > tilt and shift. Don't you think that's a bit excessive? AIUI we're talking about stuff a couple of steps up from estate agent shots.
savvo - 18 Jul 2008 13:55 GMT >> He is going to need a shift lens at least taking photos of furniture >> that you want to sell means The have to look Square not with sloping [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Don't you think that's a bit excessive? AIUI we're talking about stuff > a couple of steps up from estate agent shots. You've obviously never seen the care taken over high-value property photography. It is a different world from the "girl from the office snapping with her digicam" treatment that most of our houses would get.
But yes. Given that this poor sap is taking on a job that requires photographic skills he has not got, a technical camera would be salt _and_ vinegar on a very large wound.
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Rob Morley - 19 Jul 2008 03:03 GMT > You've obviously never seen the care taken over high-value property > photography. It is a different world from the "girl from the office > snapping with her digicam" treatment that most of our houses would > get. I know, but if this "professional interior design business" was working at that sort of level they wouldn't be asking WHSmith what camera to buy, would they?
> But yes. Given that this poor sap is taking on a job that requires > photographic skills he has not got, a technical camera would be salt > _and_ vinegar on a very large wound. Indeed.
Roger Blackwell - 18 Jul 2008 12:34 GMT > My new boss has asked me to research digital cameras before I start my > job on the 1st Aug. We need a digital SLR camera which is ideal for [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Linette As you are a professional interior design company hiring a professional photographer would make a lot of sense. For instance, what do you think of amateur interior designers? The same principal applies. A digital SLR will produce nice sharp photos but will look somewhat 'amateur' unless you and your boss know what you are doing. It certainly would be worth comparing the cost of the two approaches and maybe buying a relatively cheap (but still good) digital SLR and getting your most important photos done professionally.
Roger
Willy Eckerslyke - 18 Jul 2008 12:49 GMT >> My new boss has asked me to research digital cameras before I start my >> job on the 1st Aug.
> As you are a professional interior design company hiring a professional > photographer would make a lot of sense. Jeez, hasn't _anyone_ bothered to read they guy's post before replying? He hasn't even started his new job yet and you're all suggesting that he tells his boss to hire someone else. FFS!
To the OP, just suggest a mid-range digital SLR kit with a zoom lens that's on the wide end of things. Eg. Olympus package a 14-42mm lens with a few of their cameras. Plonk it on a tripod. Try to get your lighting as even as possible. Learn how to correct any obvious distortions in Photoshop or whatever.
savvo - 18 Jul 2008 13:49 GMT >>> My new boss has asked me to research digital cameras before I start my >>> job on the 1st Aug. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > He hasn't even started his new job yet and you're all suggesting that he > tells his boss to hire someone else. FFS! Yes, but my real advice (run away from that job before it's too late) would have been off-topic and likely to be even more ignored than the photographic advice.
> To the OP, just suggest a mid-range digital SLR kit with a zoom lens > that's on the wide end of things. > Eg. Olympus package a 14-42mm lens with a few of their cameras. > Plonk it on a tripod. Try to get your lighting as even as possible. > Learn how to correct any obvious distortions in Photoshop or whatever. And accept that your attempts will likely never convey the professional approach you bring to your interior designs.
If this were a Taxi or garage door business or any of the other amateur looking crap that falls through our doors and fills the yellow pages I wouldn't be so bothered. But this is a design company, surely, as such, they understand the value of making the right impression upfront?
Your advice is perfect for a camera club competition entry, worthless for professional imaging.
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Chris H - 18 Jul 2008 15:13 GMT >>>> My new boss has asked me to research digital cameras before I start my >>>> job on the 1st Aug. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >Your advice is perfect for a camera club competition entry, worthless >for professional imaging. Do you have the web URL for this interior design company? One look should tel if they should DIY or go for a pro.
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Willy Eckerslyke - 18 Jul 2008 15:18 GMT > Your advice is perfect for a camera club competition entry, worthless > for professional imaging. My advice was the only practical reply that they got. Clearly their budget and apparent technical background wasn't going to produce top quality results, so a degree of compromise was called for. As an answer, that had to be less worthless than "get a man in" or "use a shift lens".
Michael J Davis - 18 Jul 2008 14:04 GMT Willy Eckerslyke <oss108no_spam@bangor.ac.uk> observed
>>> My new boss has asked me to research digital cameras before I start my >>> job on the 1st Aug. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >He hasn't even started his new job yet and you're all suggesting that >he tells his boss to hire someone else. FFS! I think 'Linette' might just be female, but I could be wrong! ;-)
>To the OP, just suggest a mid-range digital SLR kit with a zoom lens >that's on the wide end of things. >Eg. Olympus package a 14-42mm lens with a few of their cameras. >Plonk it on a tripod. Try to get your lighting as even as possible. >Learn how to correct any obvious distortions in Photoshop or whatever. Seriously, you could do what I've done throughout my career, which is to use my photo skills to take 'snaps' in order to communicate what I want to a professional photographer.
Without that, too many professionals have, IME, taken what they thought I wanted rather than working to the brief I provided. That wastes time and often their money.
A side benefit was that I learned better the advantages and disadvantages of different professional approaches.
But I don't know enough about interior design or photographing ID to make any useful recommendation.
Mike [The reply-to address is valid for 30 days from this posting]
 Signature Michael J Davis <>< Some newsgroup contributors appear to have confused the meaning of "discussion" with "digression". <><
Willy Eckerslyke - 18 Jul 2008 15:03 GMT > Willy Eckerslyke <oss108no_spam@bangor.ac.uk> observed >>> "Mike" <magnetteza@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> Jeez, hasn't _anyone_ bothered to read they guy's post before replying? >> He hasn't even started his new job yet and you're all suggesting that >> he tells his boss to hire someone else. FFS! > > I think 'Linette' might just be female, but I could be wrong! ;-) Except when she's posting as 'Mike' perhaps. It's all very confusing.
Rob Morley - 19 Jul 2008 02:55 GMT > Jeez, hasn't _anyone_ bothered to read they guy's post before > replying? He hasn't even started his new job yet and you're all > suggesting that he tells his boss to hire someone else. FFS! Having worked for one or two clueless cheapskates with unrealistic expectations, I have to say that my best advice is to start looking for a new job now.
Chris H - 20 Jul 2008 07:17 GMT >> Jeez, hasn't _anyone_ bothered to read they guy's post before >> replying? He hasn't even started his new job yet and you're all [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >expectations, I have to say that my best advice is to start looking >for a new job now. I would agree... however a job is better than no job. You may also get contacts for the next step
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80/20 - 22 Jul 2008 21:59 GMT Linette you certainly started something here!
There are two main things to ask, are you purely an interior design company or a furniture design company?
If an interior design company why are you doing "studio environment" photographs instead of location shoots?
If you can do location shoots I would recommend using ambient light - wait for the howls. Ambient lighting gives you a much more realistic feel to your shots, but you will need a camera that will be able to take exposures in excess of 30 seconds and you will also need to use a very sturdy tripod.
I regularly take indoor shots of hotel guestrooms, restaurants, bars and reception areas and never use flash. Last Thursday I was taking photographs of a restaurant area with no external light only the internal lighting - a professional photographer was taking photos of the same area but using full flash soft boxes and strobes. He had great trouble balancing the lighting so that the dark carpets and furniture didn't cause the light coloured walls to be over exposed. My photos just needed a little work in Photoshop Elements to make them fit for printing and for the web pages they will be going on.
I would recommend: A DSLR with a minimum of 10 megapixels - Canon and Nikon are good makes - look at camera review site on the web. Two good quality zoom lenses 17mm - 55mm and 80mm - 200mm Remote control release, preferably infra red or wireless so you don't have to touch the camera to fire the shutter. Very sturdy tripod - by that I mean fairly heavy and unlikely to cost less than £100.00. (You are looking for a tripod that will withstand being knocked without falling over and preferably having the ability to splay the legs for working in tight areas or uneven locations.) Photoshop Elements 6 - a lot of people will recommend full blown Photoshop, but at your level Photoshop Elements 6 is more than capable. Get yourself onto a Photographic Course and make sure the tutor knows the type of work you are undertaking.
Finally for that MUST BE RIGHT FIRST TIME shot consider a professional photographer, but expect to pay about £500/£700 per day plus out of pocket expenses.
Do not be put off by the comments in this thread, yes a professional photographer should produce better work that you just as a professional interior designer should produce better work than an amateur/hotel owners wife. I sell to both types of interior designer and I work with professional photographers as well as doing my own photos in my experience there are good and bad professionals and there are some good and bad amateurs the difference is I can normally "advise" the amateur interior designer.
Do your research and confidently put forward the case for all parts of your argument.
Geoff Berrow - 25 Jul 2008 09:15 GMT Message-ID: <i69v74p4lq908eq58ltds0q2bundl4544n@4ax.com> from Mike contained the following:
>My new boss has asked me to research digital cameras before I start my >job on the 1st Aug. We need a digital SLR camera which is ideal for [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >will need to be compatible with these. He also has paper rolls and a >tripod but nothing else. I've read all the posts in this thread so I thought I'd get back to the original and find out what was really required. Nowhere does it say anything about the expertise of the person taking the photographs (nor indeed that it is the OP).
When I hear 'prodominantly indoor studio enviroment'(sic) I'm thinking room sets. Seems to me, the camera is the least of your worries. By far the most important aspect will be creativity and lighting. The recording device, providing it has the necessary controls and is of reasonable quality, is secondary.
Better camera does not necessarily mean better pictures. In fact, in untrained hands a digital SLR will simply give you far more ways to cock things up.
If there are any worries at all in this area, I'd spend the money on training.
But if it were me, even though I know my way round an SLR and have a design background, I'd still employ a professional.
 Signature Regards,
Geoff Berrow http://slipperyhill.co.uk
savvo - 25 Jul 2008 12:53 GMT > Message-ID: <i69v74p4lq908eq58ltds0q2bundl4544n@4ax.com> from Mike > contained the following: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > anything about the expertise of the person taking the photographs (nor > indeed that it is the OP). Perhaps you missed the sentence that you left out of your quote:
>>The camera and equiptment will be used by my boss but more commonly >>me so it needs to be simple enough for us to learn how to use. And, "This will require a good camera and any other necessary studio photography equiptment like reflection and flash light devices," speaks volumes to me about the expertise of the person who says he/she has had photography added to their job description after appointment.
 Signature savvo orig. invib. man
Geoff Berrow - 25 Jul 2008 13:49 GMT Message-ID: <hfrol5-6ej.ln1@tog.savvo.co.uk> from savvo contained the following:
>> I've read all the posts in this thread so I thought I'd get back to the >> original and find out what was really required. Nowhere does it say [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >>>The camera and equiptment will be used by my boss but more commonly >>>me so it needs to be simple enough for us to learn how to use. Yes I did, but my point that we do not know the expertise of the boss or the OP still stands. Though we can make a good guess.
>And, "This will require a good camera and any other necessary studio >photography equiptment like reflection and flash light devices," speaks >volumes to me about the expertise of the person who says he/she has had >photography added to their job description after appointment. Agreed. The OP is in a difficult situation. The boss is clearly clueless, which bosses have a right to be. The OP, if they have taken notice of this discussion will be more clueful, but will still be in the position of having to carry out the bosses instructions. ("Why are these pictures awful, when we bought a really good camera?")
I'd suggest that if the OP wants to impress they do some serious study.
 Signature Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email) It's only Usenet, no one dies. My opinions, not the committee's, mine. Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/
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