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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / Point & Shoot Cameras / April 2005

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Clueless newbie question

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stars - 17 Apr 2005 02:13 GMT
I have had a Canon PowerShot S100 since 2001.  By the end of 2004 the
battery wouldn't really hold a charge and the pictures came out dark, so I
decided to get a new camera.  As I had been happy with Canon & had
accessories like extra Compact Flash Cards and a card reader that would work
with a newer model, I decided to stick with Canon.  I went back and forth
between the A95 and the PowerShot s500.  After being used to the small size
of the s100, handy for travel, etc., I couldn't get used to the size of the
A95, so I wound up with the s500.

Anyway, I expected the same level of pictures as the s100, just better
quality due to more megapixels.  Apparently I am completely clueless when it
comes to this b/c now I am having the following issue:
Photos taken on my s500 look funny when viewed at a normal size onscreen
(doing a lot of photo sharing through ofoto.com, shutterfly, snapfish,
etc.).  If I increase the size of the photos the quality becomes nice and
clear - but how can I share a photo that is larger than my 17" screen??  Is
there a setting I need to change on my camera, or is it something that I
need to do once the file is downloaded onto my computer?  Is it possible to
get nice sharp pics from a 5 megapixel that look clear at a 4X6 or 5X7 size
onscreen?

Can someone advise?
Thank you in advance.
mort - 17 Apr 2005 03:09 GMT
Hi,

There are two factors here. I have an S500, and my premium paper prints are
sharp and colorful, from 4x6" on up to 8.5x11". Computer screens have a limited
sharpness, and smallish images just do not have much detail. If an image fills
the screen, then of course there will be more visible detail.

Have you tried printing 4x6" prints on good paper, either on your printer or
elsewhere?  With your camera, assuming that your camera technique is adequate,
prints should be nicely sharp and detailed from 4x6" up to 8.5x11".

Good luck.

Morton

> I have had a Canon PowerShot S100 since 2001.  By the end of 2004 the
> battery wouldn't really hold a charge and the pictures came out dark, so I
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> Can someone advise?
> Thank you in advance.
stars - 17 Apr 2005 04:13 GMT
Thanks for the quick response.  I have not tried printing any pictures yet.
I don't have a color printer here - just a b/w laser.  I usually print
through ofoto.com.  Assuming my photos print well, is there anything I can
do to get decent quality on-screen?  People's faces look funky when viewing
the photos through one of the photo-sharing sites.  Do I need to compress
the file size?  Also, I want to take pictures of a few things to sell on
ebay, so I need to be able to post clear photos.  Is this a matter of
adjusting the settings on my camera when I take a photo specifically for
this use, or do I need to compress the file after the photo is taken?

> Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
> > Can someone advise?
> > Thank you in advance.
stars - 17 Apr 2005 04:30 GMT
Replying to my own post - I think I have it figured out.  I fiddled with the
settings on my camera and I was able to shoot a photo that looks clear at a
small size. This should work for my ebay listings.

Thanks again for the help!

> Thanks for the quick response.  I have not tried printing any pictures yet.
> I don't have a color printer here - just a b/w laser.  I usually print
[quoted text clipped - 59 lines]
> > > Can someone advise?
> > > Thank you in advance.
Charles Kerekes - 17 Apr 2005 17:30 GMT
Stars,

Can you tell us what setting on your camera gave you better results?

My suggestion was going to be that you use a photo editing software and
reduce the side of your image to a maximum width of 750 pixels. This
will make your photo viewable on 800 x 600 resolution screens.

By re-sizing your photo first, you get the compression algorithm in the
resizing feature of your software to make it look better at a small
size.

Charlie

Got digital photos? Show them off!
http://FlyingSamPhoto.com
stars - 19 Apr 2005 04:29 GMT
Hi Charlie,

I dug up the manual to the camera (I know, I know...should have done that
before bothering everyone here).  Apparently for resolution I have 4
choices - Large, Medium1, Medium2, and Small.  I set the camera to "Small"
which equates to 640 X 480 pixels.  There was also a setting called
"Compression" which gave me three settings - Superfine, Fine, and Normal.  I
set the camera on Superfine.  I took a few pics of something I wanted to
sell on ebay and they came out nice and clear at a small size - perfect for
the purpose I was aiming for.

I have Adobe photoshop, but was not adept enough at reducing the image size
without sacrificing the quality.  Maybe changing the settings on my camera
is "taking the long way around", but it got me where I needed to go!

-stars

> Stars,
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Got digital photos? Show them off!
> http://FlyingSamPhoto.com
J P Scott - 19 Apr 2005 16:53 GMT
> Hi Charlie,
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> -stars

Hi Stars...

When I first got my first digital camers (Nikon Coolpix 950), I
thought it would be best to take them all medium sized so that I'd get
more photos on my memory card and they were an ideal size for showing
on the net.  But for printing them out they are just not good enough.

I soon changed my mind and now I take ALL my photos at fine quality
and then re-size them (BUT NEVER THE ORIGINAL) to send them to friends
or post them on the net.

JP
******
For a terrific place to meet, chat, share and learn, come to the
Photography Cafe!  It's free!  with 10MB space as well.
http://photography-cafe.com
MartinS - 19 Apr 2005 18:46 GMT
> "stars" <stars@vzavenue.net> wrote...
>> Hi Charlie,
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> and then re-size them (BUT NEVER THE ORIGINAL) to send them to
> friends or post them on the net.

So do I - memory cards are cheap these days. I crop/edit images for
printing, saving at 90-95% jpg quality. For posting to the net, I
reduce them to something like 640x480.

The OP seems to have found something that works for his specific
purpose, but s/he doesn't seem to understand the basic mathematics of
number of pixels, resolution and physical image size.

Signature

Martin S.

stars - 20 Apr 2005 06:33 GMT
<<snipped original message> >
> > Hi Stars...
> >
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> purpose, but s/he doesn't seem to understand the basic mathematics of
> number of pixels, resolution and physical image size.

Memory is not my issue - have plenty of memory cards around here.  Yes, I
found something that worked for my specific purpose of posting a picture to
ebay (and my item sold right away - an added bonus of that nice picture).
Is my little solution the answer to all of my hopes & dreams for my dig
photo taking? Nope.

At first I was a bit insulted by your post - who is Martin to claim I don't
have an understanding of basic mathematics?  He has no idea that my job
requires me to perform advanced calculations on my fancy calculator all day
long!  : )   However, before getting all defensive I re-read your post and
decided, that hey, you're right - I haven't bothered to learn the basics of
photography.  Call me lazy - I was looking for a quick answer.  Yes yes, I
understand that the higher the number of pixels, the clearer the image.
Monet and pointillism are not lost on me.  Yes yes, I know there is math
involved.   Feel free to point me to a good resource to read up a bit more
about digital photography & photo-editing, and rest assured I will learn all
the necessary math!

: )

-stars
(a "she")
MartinS - 20 Apr 2005 17:53 GMT
> "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote...
>> pat@photography-cafe.com (J P Scott) wrote:
<<snipped original message> >
>> > Hi Stars...
>> >
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
> bit more about digital photography & photo-editing, and rest assured
> I will learn all the necessary math!

Sorry if you felt insulted, and granted it does take a bit of time to
get the hang of it. I'm sure there are websites that will help you, but
I don't know any off-hand. Maybe others can make a recommendation, or
you could try Google, or even read the manuals for Photoshop, etc.

Irfanview is a simple, free but versatile program for doing basic
manipulation of digital images, such as cropping and resizing.

Think of the camera image as an original 35mm negative - you want to
preserve it. Do any editing, cropping and resizing from the original,
and save the result only once, especially if you want the best quality
print. Since jpeg is a "lossy" compression format, each time you edit
and re-save a file, you lose some quality. Whenever you "Save As.." a
jpeg file, there is a "quality" option which adjusts the amount of
compression (and the size of the saved file). The "fine" or "best
quality" setting on a digital camera equates to about 95% quality. For
files to be printed, use a high quality setting; for e-mail or website
display, where the file size you can send may be limited, a lower
setting of 75 or 80% will give you a smaller file with reasonable
quality.  Experiment!

Signature

Martin S.

stars - 21 Apr 2005 22:53 GMT
> > "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote...
> <<snipped original message> >
[quoted text clipped - 57 lines]
> setting of 75 or 80% will give you a smaller file with reasonable
> quality.  Experiment!

Thanks for the tips Martin.  I'm going to google up some more info and look
into Irfanview.

-stars
stars - 20 Apr 2005 06:21 GMT
> > Hi Charlie,
> >
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> Photography Cafe!  It's free!  with 10MB space as well.
> http://photography-cafe.com

JP,

Changing the settings worked for pictures to use for Ebay purposes, but what
you are saying makes sense in terms of pictures of friends/family/trips,
etc. that I will want to print out.  What program do you use for re-sizing
your photos?  I think I just need to spend a bit more time learning some
software.

thanks,
stars
Karl - 22 Apr 2005 16:21 GMT
Stars,

If I'm reading your original questions correctly, (and quite possibly I'm
not), here's what I do with my 5 megapixel digital for printing and
displaying on a monitor or web site. I always shoot my pics with the
intention of getting the best quality I can for prints up to 8x10, but
knowing I most likely will make 4x6 prints, and will want to post pics on
the web or use the pics for monitor wallpaper or to email for someone to
view on a monitor. This may be more info than you could possibly need.

I always take the pics with the largest capture size and least compression
done inside the camera itself. In your case, I think maybe that's the Large
setting and whichever the compression setting is for the least amount of
compression (either SuperFine or Normal... check the manual). This will give
you the most information/data for every pic. You can throw away some of this
data during the editing, but you can never "add" quality/data back in to
enlarge a small pic to make it a larger one.

When I transfer my pics from the memory card to my PC, I save two copies of
each pic; one copy to a folder I call "archive" and the second copy to
another folder I name corresponding to the event where the pics were taken.
I never again touch the copies in the "archive" folder. That's a safety net
folder in case I edit something horribly wrong, I can recover the original.
I always edit the pics in the second folder.

I use PhotoShop Elements for my editing program, but I'm sure you can do
this same set of procedures with whatever editing program came with your
digital camera.

I'm going to make a 4x6 print: I open the pic from the second folder with my
editing program, I choose "resize", and unclick the "resample" box; if the
pic is landscape-oriented, I choose resize the width to 6" (and the height
will be resized to 4.5"); if it's a portrait-oriented pic, set the height to
6", (and the width will be resized to 4.5"). Next, crop your pic to get that
extra 1/2" of material out of the 4.5" dimension so it'll fit onto 4x6"
print paper without the printer driver randomly cropping the pic. Once
you've done that, then go back to the "resize" menu, checkmark the
"resample" box, and then enter "300" into the dots per inch field. Now, save
this edited pic as something other than the original you started out with.
(Maybe add a number or letter to the original name when you're saving it).
More importantly, you might also want to change the file "type" from a "jpg"
file to "tiff" or "psd" format file when you save it. ("jpg" format files
are already compressed files, and every time you "save" a jpg file, you
throw away/lose clarity/detail information when the jpg compression is done
again to save the file. "jpg" format is a "lossy" format. The "tiff" and
"psd" formats are "loss-less" formats). Most all photo printers for us
consumers eat 300 dots per inch as their most efficient input. You can feed
your printer more than that, but I've found it makes no difference at all to
the quality of the print, and sometimes the extra dots per inch choke the
printer or at least slow it down. Now, you'll have terrifically clear 4x6
prints of whatever your digital camera saw. If you're going to send the
edited pics to ofoto.com or another site to have prints made, you also need
to save the final edited file in "jpg" format because I think that's the
format they want you to send to them.

Once you've done the above, and you decide you want to display the 4x6 pics
(you already edited for printing) on a monitor, go back into your editing
program to "resize", make sure the "resample" box is checked, and then put
"72" in the dots per inch window and click okay. This will have several
effects: it'll give you a significantly smaller file saved on your PC's hard
drive, it'll be a smaller file to email, and it'll be the optimum dots per
inch for displaying a 4x6" picture on a monitor or on a web site. Save this
file as yet another modified name from the (edited 4x6 print) input file. If
you're going to send it to someone to display on a monitor, save it also as
a "jpg" format file to send out, (since "jpg" is a pretty universal format
file that both Mac and PC users can display on a monitor).

Okay. Told you this was going to be more info than you needed. One last
pointer: Be sure to back up your hard drive onto floppies, CDs, DVDs, or
another hard drive in (or outside of) your PC, so in case your hard drive
hiccups, you won't have lost all your originals and your time-consuming
edited pics. Enjoy!

 ...Karl
stars - 25 Apr 2005 04:57 GMT
Intentionally top-posting - THANK YOU!!!  Yes - you read my original
questions correctly.  I solved my ebay issue by taking smaller sized/more
compressed pics, but that wasn't going to be a solution for posting pics on
the web for friends/family, etc.  I have printed out your post for
reference.  Thank you for taking the time to write all of that out - it is
appreciated.

-stars

> Stars,
>
[quoted text clipped - 70 lines]
>
>   ...Karl
 
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