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Photo Forum / Photo Technique / People Photography / April 2005

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wedding pictures

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sarah amaton - 09 Apr 2005 10:25 GMT
hello,

 My friend is getting married in a couple of weeks and she can't afford a
photographer, so I want to take some pictures of just the bride and groom
and maybe the brial party.Now I know this could be all wrong since the
wedding is so special and my pictures might not be all that,but she knows
I'm not professional and she is not paying me it's just something I would
like to do for her.

 Anyways,getting the point. I have an olympus slr om-1 with a 49mm
skylight(1b) filter.My friend's wedding is at a golf course and the
pictures will be outdoor and partly shaded.I would also like to take some
pictures that look soft and alittle fuzzy. Does anyone have any suggestions
on what kind of film and filters to use.

                                          Thanks lots,
                                               sarah
Gregory Blank - 10 Apr 2005 01:55 GMT
> hello,
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>                                            Thanks lots,
>                                                 sarah

Oh boy here we go again.

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"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

Scott Coutts - 10 Apr 2005 02:44 GMT
>>hello,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Oh boy here we go again.

How useful you have been. Good thing for all of us that you're here to
relay such insight.

Anyway...

Firstly, I'm certainly no expert, but this is what I'd do. Bear in mind
that it might be wrong (: Someone else heremight be able to help. Post
also in some other groups like rec.photo and aus.photo etc if you want
some more info.

Given that you're shooting someone's wedding, then if you're not sure
about something, then  I'd recommend sticking with the basics. At least,
stick with what you're very comfortable with. This is espeically
important if you're shooting on film where you can't check to see that
you've gotten the shots that you want. A wedding isnt the place for
testing out new methods and experimenting (: If you really want
something different, then shoot lots and lots and lots of film, bracket
your exposures etc. Shoot as many as you can, so even if you have to
throw 80% in the bin, you'll still get some good ones. I'm not saying
you're a bad photographer, I'm just saying the more you shoot the
greater your chances of success and getting a 'special' shot rather than
a snap shot. You'll only get one chance. You dont have to print them
all... get the lab to do negs only, or negs and a proof sheet. Then look
through the negs and proof sheets to find the ones you want and get only
those done.

Shoot lots of 'normal' ones and some experimental ones. Also, consider
shooting some black and white (real black and white, not C41) . They can
turn out nice, but again, do lots of bracketing, especially if you're
dealing with traditional dark shadows (suits) and bright whites
(dresses) in the same frame.

If you want 'soft' shots, you can get filters from Hoya and others that
will do it for you. They're called Hoya Softener A and Softener B.
THere's also a diffuser (it's called that) and also a filter that will
soften only the edges, and leave a sharp centre (Hoya Centre Spot).

Also, there are special films for shooting portraits that you might like
to consider, such as the Fuji NPS160. There's also high contrast
portrait film called NPC160 which can give nice high-contrast shots with
bright colours.

Do you have a flash that you know how to use well? If so, use some fill
flash if they're in the shadows. Otherwise, move them somewhere that you
can get good light (but not full blazing sun)

If you have, or can borrow, an extra camera, then that's even better,
because you can have black and white and normal film, or normal film and
portrait film going at once, and you can shoot with one camera and then
the other. Otherwise, use up an entire roll in one go, and then shoot
with another roll straight after.

Lastly, do lots of reading on the net on wedding techiniques. There'll
be lots of good tips and tricks to use, and ways to make sure you get
good shots.

Most of all, good luck. I hope you get some nice shots (:

Scott.
Al Denelsbeck - 10 Apr 2005 09:59 GMT
> hello,
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>                                            Thanks lots,
>                                                 sarah

       Scott's advice is pretty solid, but I'll add a little to it as well.

       Definitely some portrait film, Fuji NPH or Kodak Portra 400 is where
I'd aim. Excellent skin tones and pleasant contrast levels.

       Buy, beg, borrow, or scrounge a couple of extra lenses if possible,
35mm and 85mm, or as close as you can get. 35mm will give you a wider view
to do "locale" shots or small groups, 85mm or a little longer will be
better for portraits. Even 50mm, when used close to people, can distort
faces in an unflattering way. Standing back further and using a short
telephoto works a lot better. Also, it gives better control over depth-of-
field, letting the background go much softer while keeping your subject
sharp.

       Avoid mixed lighting. Contrast always increases on film, even low-
contrast film, and those soft shadows can become much darker in the prints.
Try to stay in the same lighting, and for preference, open shade. Using a
flash, even when the light seems sufficient, can help balance the light
levels, but since you may not have time to get familiar with this, shoot
with and without flash.

       Multiple shots of everything. It's that really great shot that
someone will have their eyes closed in ;-)

       Couple of key things for weddings. Remember that the classic print
size is 8x10, yet your film frame is a different ratio (8x12). Leave space
on the sides when framing your photos to account for this cropping - in
other words, think closer in terms of a square rather than using the entire
frame.

       Also, be sure to shoot quite a few full-length poses, including feet.
Get details of the dress, preferably from all sides, and as Scott says,
bracket (shoot exposures a little above and below the exposure that the
camera meter provides). White dresses and black tuxes often fool the camera
meter, which is adjusted for middle grey.

       Watch every little detail. Your eye should rove the entire background
visible in the frame, as well as every detail on the happy couple, for each
shot. It's real easy to get that annoying distraction in there that can
ruin a photo. Especially watch errant clothing, placement of hands, wilting
flowers, and so on. Photo assistants are fabulous for this - two people
knowing what to look for is always better, and one can rush forward and
smooth the dress train while you hold position.

       Soft focus. A screw-on filter would probably annoy you, since your
best bet is to shoot the same images with and without - they behave
differently in different lighting, and have the most dreamy effect with
*soft* backlighting. If you buy one, go instead for the square format
slide-in filters intended with filter holders like Cokin, and simply hold
it up in front of the lens when needed. In a pinch, you can also use a
clean piece of old nylon hose stretched over the lens, a clear filter with
petroleum jelly smeared around the outer edges, and if weather conditions
permit, a hard huff of breath can condense onto the lens or filter long
enough to work well, but you gotta move quick.

       Best bet: If you can arrange a test shoot ahead of time in the same
locale and conditions, you will learn a tremendous amount. Take notes if
necessary, but the couple of rolls you use will be wisely spent.

       Plan on failures. If you can't have a backup body, at least have
loads of batteries, and a small tool kit. Lots of film. Straight and safety
pins. Lots of lens cleaning materials. Don't let yourself get flustered -
this leads to stupid errors you'll hate yourself for. Take breathers and
think back over what you're doing, and watch the camera settings carefully.
It's easy to forget you set aperture for high depth-of-field and are now in
a situation where the shutter speed is too slow to handhold for sharp
photos.

       All that said, relax and be upbeat and even a little goofy. At least
half of the photographer's job is handling the subjects, and your emotions
will be catching, so make them work for you. The 'happy' couple will
probably be stressed out of their minds, so take control from them and do
it like you've been doing it all your life - they'll be happy to let you
handle it and much more relaxed. Have fun with it, and shoot a couple
frames just for giggles. Take the opportunity to do a couple of informals
and photojournalistic shots before and after, too.

       Hope this helps, and best of luck to you all.

    - Al.

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Whatevah - 12 Apr 2005 05:01 GMT
> hello,
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>                                            Thanks lots,
>                                                 sarah

Try to find a photography student willing to do it for cheap or for a
portfolio. Even if they haven't shot weddings before, they should have a
solid portfolio showing that they can shoot well, and artistically.  If
you live in a metropolitan area, craigslist.org is a good place to start
looking.

It may result in better pictures than you could do, and also allow you
to enjoy the wedding.

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Whatevah / Jerry Horn
Jerry {at} Whatevah.com (working address)
Freelance Photography and Web services.
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zeitgeist - 12 Apr 2005 07:33 GMT
>   My friend is getting married in a couple of weeks and she can't afford a
> photographer, so I want to take some pictures of just the bride and groom
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> pictures that look soft and alittle fuzzy. Does anyone have any suggestions
> on what kind of film and filters to use.

The first thing you want to do get the subjects in the shade, direct sun is
the definition of harsh lighting and far too contrasty for film to handle,
that means washed out noses and eyes that disappear in the shadow of the
eyebrow.    You could fill flash but would need a strong powerful flash for
the groups.  You would need f/11 for fill light with the sun as the main or
key light at f/16 using an ISO of 125 (shooting 160 film is close enough) so
your proper exposure will be similar to your flash sync speed.   Any built
in flash will not cut it, a good shoe flash may give enough but most are
made for 5-10 feet.   In open shade the lighting will be softer, much less
contrasty, if you have light coming straight down (like at mid day) then the
eyes may still be lost in shadow but since open shade is 4 stops less than
bright sun your shoe flash will have a better chance of doing its job.

and now for a gratuitous snarky comment, this is a public forum on the
internet afterall, but as for the soft and a little fuzzy, isn't that a
little redundant with that camera?  hehehe, sorry, couldn't resist.

you know it amazes me, but of all the concerns a photographer would have
shooting a wedding for the first time, of all the questions to ask, its
always 'what film?"    My question to you is, what kind of paper does your
lab run?   Film is film unless you really know exposures, have done tests to
determine your working ISO, and you can start to notice differences.  If you
don't know what your camera is doing, IE: the dial 'says' 1/125th but what
is the actual speed? then which brand of film is nearly irrelevant.

here's my best tip for you and your 'client,'  take them out for an
engagement portrait, this will do two things, give each of you a clue as to
what to expect, they will see what you can do and most importantly, they
will know what you need from them.  This one thing will help you out far
more than any other tip trick or technique you do on the wedding day.  I
mean, they will probably have a rehearsal for the ceremony, like how
difficult is it to figure out how to walk down the aisle?   do an rehearsal
for the pictures.
Marc 182 - 12 Apr 2005 09:10 GMT
> >   My friend is getting married in a couple of weeks and she can't afford a
> > photographer, so I want to take some pictures of just the bride and groom
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> that means washed out noses and eyes that disappear in the shadow of the
> eyebrow.

<snip the good advice>

Where's Randalsaurus and his manditory 4x5 box cameras for weddings?

Marc
Randall Ainsworth - 12 Apr 2005 13:48 GMT
> Where's Randalsaurus and his manditory 4x5 box cameras for weddings?

I'm still here, just mostly a lurker these days.

If you dinks want to take on wedding photography, be my guest. Through
the years I've seen enough amateur weddings to make anybody puke. What
do I care? Dust off that 35mm, stick the flash on top, and have at it.
Marc 182 - 13 Apr 2005 05:45 GMT
> > Where's Randalsaurus and his manditory 4x5 box cameras for weddings?
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> the years I've seen enough amateur weddings to make anybody puke. What
> do I care? Dust off that 35mm, stick the flash on top, and have at it.

And just as yankable as ever.
Udie Lafing - 13 Apr 2005 10:23 GMT
> > > Where's Randalsaurus and his manditory 4x5 box cameras for weddings?
> >
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> And just as yankable as ever.

And everyone knows your one of the best yanker's there is.
Signature

In my book its another pointless post from another
nameless nobody. I hope it made you feel better.
--
LOL.

Joshua Putnam - 12 Apr 2005 09:23 GMT
> >   Anyways,getting the point. I have an olympus slr om-1

> and now for a gratuitous snarky comment, this is a public forum on the
> internet afterall, but as for the soft and a little fuzzy, isn't that a
> little redundant with that camera?  hehehe, sorry, couldn't resist.

I suppose that would depend on the lens -- sure, it's not medium format,
but the OM-1 isn't a favorite of astrophotographers because it's soft
and fuzzy.  In competent hands, it's better than most autofocus
wonderbricks.

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Craig  Flory - 12 Apr 2005 13:22 GMT
  I'd like to add my two cents. I've been a profesional photographer since
1966.
I have heard of many friends who became ex-friends by trying to create
images
of someones wedding. Portraits can be re-done but weddings must be captured
well the 1st time. You would be a much better friend by hiring a pro for one
hour
of formals. But, if you must do the photos, I'd suggest that you do the
photos in NOT
shade but open shade. There is a big difference. Scout out the location
several weeks
before. Ask someone to pose for you. Use a fast film ... you do not want to
open
up the aperature. You want to use a small aperature for a good depth of
field.After
the film is developed look carefully at them to see how you did. I hope you
own
Adobe Photoshop. If so ... have digital scans done too. That way you will be
able to
make corrections.
   As for exposure ... you want to work in open shade so there will be some
detail in
the people. Use an external powerful flash on a light stand and a long flash
cord. Use a
hand held light meter. Meter for the  faces and also for the background. Use
an
exposure for the background and use enough flash power to light the faces
while
the exposure allows the background to have separation from the people. If
you can't
do all this I once again urge you to not do this. Hire someone as your
special gift.

Craig Flory
Helios35966@ayhoo.com - 14 Apr 2005 23:29 GMT
Easiest way to make a soft focus filter is to take a skylight or UV filter
(I buy ones with dented front rings for this-never paid over $2 for one) and
spray they with hairspray. If you don't get the effect you want-ie too soft
or not soft enough,just soak it in rubbing alcohol for about 2 minutes and
the hairspray washes off and you can try again.
As to film,oddly enough,my best results have been on Fuji's 200 speed
Superia film...seems there's a UV absorbing layer that pretty much stops the
problem of wedding dresses turning a very pale shade of blue.
On lenses.....buy,beg,borrow or steal a 28-80 or something in that range.
That one lens will do 90% of the pictures you'll do at a wedding. If you can
find one,the Tamron 28-80 SP is a great lens for wedding work.

> hello,
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>                                           Thanks lots,
>                                                sarah
zeitgeist - 19 Apr 2005 06:07 GMT
> Easiest way to make a soft focus filter is to take a skylight or UV filter
> (I buy ones with dented front rings for this-never paid over $2 for one) and
> spray they with hairspray. If you don't get the effect you want-ie too soft
> or not soft enough,just soak it in rubbing alcohol for about 2 minutes and
> the hairspray washes off and you can try again.

as one who went through the whole "buy top quality tack sharp lenses for my
medium format gear only to do many things to soften it" routine, hair spray
is one of those things that mushes up the focus which is not the same thing
as softening it.

GOOD soft focus retains a sharp image.  Good soft focus looks better as you
enlarge it.  Mushy focus looks ok rather small but falls apart when
enlarged.

The best cheap soft focus is two layers of cheap nylon netting, (not
expensive hosiery, the good stuff adds to much warmth to the image.)  Black
netting will absorb some light rays on a seemingly random pattern (if tight
enough and that's why you want to use two layers at least) and diffract
light passing close to the edges of each thread, that's what makes the image
partly soft.    White netting works similarly but seems to do more with the
highlights and lowers contrast more.

one trick I heard about but never tried was to take a cheap UV filter and
apply tiny dots of clear glue in a random pattern.

I eventually used Harrison Black dots (Which actually looked like someone
spit chewing tobacco between two sheets of glass) and then invested in a
real soft focus lens which I consider one of my better investments in image
gadgetry.

This reply is echoed to the z-prophoto mailing list at yahoogroups.com
Craig  Flory - 22 Apr 2005 02:02 GMT
  One thing I'd like to add. I no longer ever add soft focus over the lens
anymore. Once you add it you can never remove it. So I create images as
sharp as possible. Then I add soft focus in Adobe Photoshop I can control
how much and where it falls.I also never do double exposures anymore in the
camera. I do it in Photoshop by combining images with a layer mask. As a
professional photographer I want total control and I didn't get that doing
soft focus and double exposures in camera.

Craig Flory
 
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