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Photo Forum / Photo Technique / People Photography / February 2005

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People in Casinos

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McWave - 19 Jan 2005 02:39 GMT
Here are some photos taken in casinos in Las Vegas. I tried to capture the
modes and actions of people.

1. Around table
http://www.pbase.com/mcwave/image/38759660

2. Adding stakes
http://www.pbase.com/mcwave/image/38759672

3. Drawing
http://www.pbase.com/mcwave/image/38714060

4. Drinking alone
http://www.pbase.com/mcwave/image/38714093

The gallery is at http://www.pbase.com/mcwave/lasvegas. Please click on
"original" if the photos are not sharp.

Welcome to share your comments!
Seymore - 19 Jan 2005 15:53 GMT
I'm really surprised they allowed you to take a 300D inside!!!

> Here are some photos taken in casinos in Las Vegas. I tried to capture the
> modes and actions of people.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Welcome to share your comments!
me - 19 Jan 2005 19:59 GMT
> Here are some photos taken in casinos in Las Vegas. I tried to capture the
> modes and actions of people.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Welcome to share your comments!

If you didn't have permission you may have a problem. You might have needed
a signed property release to take photos on their property. I recommend you
remove the photos until such time as you can get permission/release from the
casinos.
Good Luck,
me

PS: If you attempt to sell these photos for commercial purposes without a
release you may (probably?) be sued.
McWave - 20 Jan 2005 03:22 GMT
Are you sure about this? For example, if I take pictures inside some private
properties such as a hotel or a restaurant, will I meet problems?

Thanks

>> Here are some photos taken in casinos in Las Vegas. I tried to capture
>> the
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> PS: If you attempt to sell these photos for commercial purposes without a
> release you may (probably?) be sued.
Inaccessible - 20 Jan 2005 03:29 GMT
> Are you sure about this? For example, if I take pictures inside some private
> properties such as a hotel or a restaurant, will I meet problems?
>
> Thanks

> > PS: If you attempt to sell these photos for commercial purposes without a
> > release you may (probably?) be sued.

Anon is correct. & I am really surprised that the casinos even let you
do them, I am surprised since its not a public but private property
that you didn't get bounced beat up or arrested.

You could also be shot. Think about who goes to casinos, stranger things
have happened.
McWave - 20 Jan 2005 04:14 GMT
OK. I think you guys are right. Although it is not a big problem to shoot in
many private places such as restaurants or hotels, casinos may be really
unwilling to see their photos published. I have removed all photos involving
people gambling or slot machines. Hope now they are OK.

http://www.pbase.com/mcwave/lasvegas

Thanks

>> Are you sure about this? For example, if I take pictures inside some
>> private
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> You could also be shot. Think about who goes to casinos, stranger things
> have happened.
Doug Greenwald - 20 Jan 2005 04:19 GMT
My wife and I go to Vegas a lot (went this past weekend, in fact).

There used to be signs posted that cameras are not allowed on the casino floor, but I did not notice them this past trip.  I'm still not gutsy enough to find out if cameras are no longer officially taboo - casino security has a lot of leeway on the Vegas strip :-)

My understanding is that yes - you need permission to photograph inside the casino itself as you are taking a picture of private property from private property.  When you capture people in the image, you require model releases from anyone identifiable unless editorial use can be shown, which would be difficult.

This applies to any private property, to answer your question directly.  I take pictures of the Christmas lights in a couple of neighborhoods every year.  I can take as many pictures of the houses that I want from the sidewalk or public street, but I can not take a picture from a driveway unless I have prior permission from the homeowner (which I get from as many as I can).  I can't sell the images without property releases - I find conflicting opinions, but I'm inclined to believe that any building built recently (last 20 years or so) is automatically covered by copyright.

I wouldn't recommend selling the images without permission, both from the property owner and from any/all identifiable people.  These images were shot on private property and editorial use does not extend to the commercial sale of the images.

That's my understanding - I'm not an attorney - your mileage may vary - batteries not included - void where prohibited.

Signature

Doug Greenwald
Keeper of the Bad Attitude
fsgreen@email.uophx.edu
doug.greenwald@gmail.com

 In article <csn855$qb8$1@news.ks.uiuc.edu>, "McWave" <guest@mail.com>
 wrote:

 > Are you sure about this? For example, if I take pictures inside some private
 > properties such as a hotel or a restaurant, will I meet problems?
 >
 > Thanks

 > > PS: If you attempt to sell these photos for commercial purposes without a
 > > release you may (probably?) be sued.

 Anon is correct. & I am really surprised that the casinos even let you
 do them, I am surprised since its not a public but private property
 that you didn't get bounced beat up or arrested.

 You could also be shot. Think about who goes to casinos, stranger things
 have happened
McWave - 20 Jan 2005 04:31 GMT
Actually many casinos are very beautiful inside, such as Paris, Venetian, and New York New York. So it may be very common for tourists to take pictures inside, and casinos are not against this. For example, I have seen many photos about the lions in MGM. However, casinos might be really unwilling to see photos about people gambling, and they have the right to prevent such photos from being published online.

Hope my understanding is correct.
 My wife and I go to Vegas a lot (went this past weekend, in fact).

 There used to be signs posted that cameras are not allowed on the casino floor, but I did not notice them this past trip.  I'm still not gutsy enough to find out if cameras are no longer officially taboo - casino security has a lot of leeway on the Vegas strip :-)

 My understanding is that yes - you need permission to photograph inside the casino itself as you are taking a picture of private property from private property.  When you capture people in the image, you require model releases from anyone identifiable unless editorial use can be shown, which would be difficult.

 This applies to any private property, to answer your question directly.  I take pictures of the Christmas lights in a couple of neighborhoods every year.  I can take as many pictures of the houses that I want from the sidewalk or public street, but I can not take a picture from a driveway unless I have prior permission from the homeowner (which I get from as many as I can).  I can't sell the images without property releases - I find conflicting opinions, but I'm inclined to believe that any building built recently (last 20 years or so) is automatically covered by copyright.

 I wouldn't recommend selling the images without permission, both from the property owner and from any/all identifiable people.  These images were shot on private property and editorial use does not extend to the commercial sale of the images.

 That's my understanding - I'm not an attorney - your mileage may vary - batteries not included - void where prohibited.

 --
 Doug Greenwald
 Keeper of the Bad Attitude
 fsgreen@email.uophx.edu
 doug.greenwald@gmail.com

   "Inaccessible" <pandemonium@pitchedpipes.com> wrote in message news:pandemonium-B3BAFB.22342219012005@news.verizon.net...
   In article <csn855$qb8$1@news.ks.uiuc.edu>, "McWave" <guest@mail.com>
   wrote:

   > Are you sure about this? For example, if I take pictures inside some private
   > properties such as a hotel or a restaurant, will I meet problems?
   >
   > Thanks

   > > PS: If you attempt to sell these photos for commercial purposes without a
   > > release you may (probably?) be sued.

   Anon is correct. & I am really surprised that the casinos even let you
   do them, I am surprised since its not a public but private property
   that you didn't get bounced beat up or arrested.

   You could also be shot. Think about who goes to casinos, stranger things
   have happened
Doug Greenwald - 20 Jan 2005 05:22 GMT
By casino I mean the actual casino - where the gambling takes place.  All other spaces within a Vegas property are considered part of the hotel.

Within the hotel/resort grounds, yes, the Venetian and the Bellagio (and others) are absolutely stunning properties.  Snapshots are not frowned upon.  But I'm willing to bet if I set up both my tripods (one for the digital camera, one for the film camera) in a lobby or other "interior" space of a hotel and started walking around taking light meter readings, I'll be approached and questioned.  They may allow me to continue, but it won't go unnoticed :-)

I've been approached by resort security while taking pictures from the sidewalk so I know they are paying attention.

Putting them online in a personal gallery is unlikely to draw much attention regarding rights of use.  It's selling them where we need to cover ourselves with property and/or model releases.

Again - I'm no attorney and this is just my understanding of our rights and responsibilities as photographers.

Signature

Doug Greenwald
Keeper of the Bad Attitude
fsgreen@email.uophx.edu
doug.greenwald@gmail.com

 Actually many casinos are very beautiful inside, such as Paris, Venetian, and New York New York. So it may be very common for tourists to take pictures inside, and casinos are not against this. For example, I have seen many photos about the lions in MGM. However, casinos might be really unwilling to see photos about people gambling, and they have the right to prevent such photos from being published online.

 Hope my understanding is correct.
   "Doug Greenwald" <fsgreen@cox.net> wrote in message news:8jGHd.12876$ru.1685@fed1read07...
   My wife and I go to Vegas a lot (went this past weekend, in fact).

   There used to be signs posted that cameras are not allowed on the casino floor, but I did not notice them this past trip.  I'm still not gutsy enough to find out if cameras are no longer officially taboo - casino security has a lot of leeway on the Vegas strip :-)

   My understanding is that yes - you need permission to photograph inside the casino itself as you are taking a picture of private property from private property.  When you capture people in the image, you require model releases from anyone identifiable unless editorial use can be shown, which would be difficult.

   This applies to any private property, to answer your question directly.  I take pictures of the Christmas lights in a couple of neighborhoods every year.  I can take as many pictures of the houses that I want from the sidewalk or public street, but I can not take a picture from a driveway unless I have prior permission from the homeowner (which I get from as many as I can).  I can't sell the images without property releases - I find conflicting opinions, but I'm inclined to believe that any building built recently (last 20 years or so) is automatically covered by copyright.

   I wouldn't recommend selling the images without permission, both from the property owner and from any/all identifiable people.  These images were shot on private property and editorial use does not extend to the commercial sale of the images.

   That's my understanding - I'm not an attorney - your mileage may vary - batteries not included - void where prohibited.

   --
   Doug Greenwald
   Keeper of the Bad Attitude
   fsgreen@email.uophx.edu
   doug.greenwald@gmail.com
Doug Greenwald - 20 Jan 2005 05:25 GMT
BTW - you've got some nice work in your galleries.

When I clicked on the direct picture links in your original post it told me I had to log in as you to view the image.  But it let me view the gallery via the links at the top of the page.

Signature

Doug Greenwald
Keeper of the Bad Attitude
fsgreen@email.uophx.edu
doug.greenwald@gmail.com

 Actually many casinos are very beautiful inside, such as Paris, Venetian, and New York New York. So it may be very common for tourists to take pictures inside, and casinos are not against this. For example, I have seen many photos about the lions in MGM. However, casinos might be really unwilling to see photos about people gambling, and they have the right to prevent such photos from being published online.

 Hope my understanding is correct
Xiaoxin Yin - 20 Jan 2005 07:36 GMT
Thank you. I hide the photos about the gambling people, and other photos (most are scenic ones) are still publicly available. Hope there is not a bug in pbase that allows people to see those casino photos via some links.
 BTW - you've got some nice work in your galleries.

 When I clicked on the direct picture links in your original post it told me I had to log in as you to view the image.  But it let me view the gallery via the links at the top of the page.

 --

 Doug Greenwald
 Keeper of the Bad Attitude
 fsgreen@email.uophx.edu
 doug.greenwald@gmail.com

   "McWave" <guest@mail.com> wrote in message news:csnc61$ril$1@news.ks.uiuc.edu...
   Actually many casinos are very beautiful inside, such as Paris, Venetian, and New York New York. So it may be very common for tourists to take pictures inside, and casinos are not against this. For example, I have seen many photos about the lions in MGM. However, casinos might be really unwilling to see photos about people gambling, and they have the right to prevent such photos from being published online.

   Hope my understanding is correct
me - 20 Jan 2005 04:11 GMT
> >> Here are some photos taken in casinos in Las Vegas. I tried to capture
> >> the
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>
> Thanks

If you are on private property you should always seek permission *before*
taking photos. Getting permission/release avoids problems and is ethically
correct. If you obtain a release you have the opportunity to use your photos
for commercial purposes. You may also need a release from anyone whose face
is recognizable if the photo will be used for commercial purposes.
Good Luck,
me
McWave - 20 Jan 2005 04:19 GMT
Thank you for your advices. Sure it is necessary to get permissions before
using anyone's photo for commercial purposes. But for non-commercial
purposes, it is OK. Actually there are millions of people's faces shown on
different photos taken on streets, parks, beaches, etc.

Thanks

> If you are on private property you should always seek permission *before*
> taking photos. Getting permission/release avoids problems and is ethically
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Good Luck,
> me
me - 20 Jan 2005 17:08 GMT
> > If you are on private property you should always seek permission *before*
> > taking photos. Getting permission/release avoids problems and is ethically
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> different photos taken on streets, parks, beaches, etc.
> Thanks

I myself am *very* cautious about how I use photos of people without a
release. I also consider it to be a point of ethics, I ask myself "How would
I want my face used?" YMMV and it obviously does. This is a slippery slope
that I fear to go down without good legal and moral justification.
Good Luck,
me

PS: Thanks for turning off the HTML!
George - 22 Feb 2005 04:12 GMT
> Are you sure about this? For example, if I take pictures inside some private
> properties such as a hotel or a restaurant, will I meet problems?
>
> Thanks

YES.  Did you know that photographers have been sued for photographing the
famous
"Lone Cypress" tree in Carmel, CA?  You do not have a right to photograph
private property
for personal gain.  I am REALLY surprised that you got a camera into and out
of a casino.
Many people DO NOT want to be seen gambling and casinos don't want to
discourage
anyone from dropping a bundle there, so they have very strict rules about
photography.

George
Marc 182 - 22 Feb 2005 08:51 GMT
> > Are you sure about this? For example, if I take pictures inside some
> private
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> anyone from dropping a bundle there, so they have very strict rules about
> photography.

All of that is true.  However, couple of years ago I shot a wedding at
Las Vegas's Bellagio Casino. Nice place. What happens several times a
day there is that the elevator doors open and a bride and her party will
burst out and start a mad dash through the slot machines and tables to
the wedding chapel.  This is met with enthusiastic cheering from the
casino crowd.

I shot this part by running ahead of the party, squatting to a three-
point shooting position, and taking a shot.  Run ahead and repeat. I
even shot a couple in natural light, pulling the zoom to streak and blur
all the flashy gambling lights on either side of the bridal party.

While I was doing this I fully expected a heavy hand to land on my
shoulder, and we were anything but sly or subtle. To the contrary, I saw
security clearing folks away ahead of our path. Obviously they see this
kind of thing a lot. Not something you can rely on, but that's how it
played out.

Marc
Gregory Blank - 24 Feb 2005 01:30 GMT
> All of that is true.  However, couple of years ago I shot a wedding at
> Las Vegas's Bellagio Casino. Nice place. What happens several times a
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Marc

Now all the OP has to do is hire a bride and groom to be all his
pictures ;-)

Signature

LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

 
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