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Photo Forum / Photo Technique / Nature Photography / August 2005southwest: delta 400 or fp4+?
this saturday morning i'll leave to go to southwest usa with my wife. we'll be visiting some nat'l parks and will hike here and there. in the past i was happy about delta 100, but have never printed them more than 8x10". considering the beauty of places we'll see, i'd like to print them up to 20x24" --or more, if i'm able to find larger paper--. the problem coming at this point is that the shop i usually buy film at has no more delta 100, then i have to decide between what's available *now*. unfortunately, in italy there is almost no way to buy online films and have them delivered at home in 1 day. options are: 1. delta 400, which is t-grain, but relatively high sensitivity and in grand canyon, monument valley and so on may even become a problem 2. fp4+, which is older and seems to offer richer range of greys, but probably has bigger grain: i don't know *how bigger* it is can you please give me some advices --if you have any--? thank you in advance.  SignatureGianni Rondinini (30, tanti, RA) VBR - Vero Birro Romagnolo Hai capito, scelf? > this saturday morning i'll leave to go to southwest usa with my wife. > we'll be visiting some nat'l parks and will hike here and there. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > thank you in advance. Why don't you just take what you can get in Italy and then buy film once you get to the US? Call up the hotel you're going to be staying at, have them look in the local phone book and see if there are any camera stores in town. They might even do the calling around for you if you explain to them exactly what you want and that you are overseas. If they can find somebody carrying what you want, you could probably have the hotel call or email you with the phone number, call the camera store, pay for the film by credit card in advance and have them hold it for you. SignatureAngela M. Cable Paint Shop Pro 9 Private Beta Tester Neocognition, digital scrapbooking source: http://www.neocognition.com/ PSP Tutorial Links: http://www.psplinks.com/ 5th Street Studio, free graphics, websets and more: http://www.fortunecity.com/westwood/alaia/354/ >Why don't you just take what you can get in Italy and then buy film once >you get to the US? Call up the hotel you're going to be staying at, have i thought about this, but hadn't find any photo store in advance. i asked in avlv group if they had any suggestions about big photo shops in las vegas --we'll land there and immediately move away after picking up our car-- and they gave me a couple of addresses, but our plane lands at 17.30 and i'm not sure that we'll arrive at those shops before they close. during our trip we'll sleep in small towns: bryce, moab, blanding, page, cortez, kayenta, st. george. i'm not sure i'll be able to find such "rare" films like deltas or similar. this is why i'd sleep better if i leave italy with my films. talking about such slow films should avoid me the risk of having them damaged by x-rays, too. thank you. bye! SignatureGianni Rondinini (30, tanti, RA) VBR - Vero Birro Romagnolo Hai capito, scelf? >>Why don't you just take what you can get in Italy and then buy film once >>you get to the US? Call up the hotel you're going to be staying at, have [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > plane lands at 17.30 and i'm not sure that we'll arrive at those shops > before they close. Okay, well if you can find a store by phone, can pay by credit card and explain the situation, maybe the store could drop the film at the hotel for you? I've never been to Vegas, I don't know how friendly folks are there or how willing they'd be to do such a thing. It would probably be no problem where I live, but it's a small town. > during our trip we'll sleep in small towns: bryce, moab, blanding, > page, cortez, kayenta, st. george. i'm not sure i'll be able to find > such "rare" films like deltas or similar. St. George isn't that small a town. All of these towns sit right near National Parks. There will be at least one photography store in most of these places. They may not have the specific film that you want, but there will be someplace to buy film. > this is why i'd sleep better > if i leave italy with my films. talking about such slow films should [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > bye! SignatureAngela M. Cable Paint Shop Pro 9 Private Beta Tester Neocognition, digital scrapbooking source: http://www.neocognition.com/ PSP Tutorial Links: http://www.psplinks.com/ 5th Street Studio, free graphics, websets and more: http://www.fortunecity.com/westwood/alaia/354/ [SNIP] > Okay, well if you can find a store by phone, can pay > by credit card and explain the situation, maybe the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > thing. It would probably be no problem where I live, > but it's a small town. Sahara Camera might do it - but only if you paid them for the service... > > during our trip we'll sleep in small towns: bryce, > > moab, blanding, page, cortez, kayenta, st. george. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > may not have the specific film that you want, but > there will be someplace to buy film. I've been surprised at how difficult it is to get film in places like these actually: you'll have no trouble getting Kodacolor Gold, but might find no B&W film at all, even in Moab or Blanding. > > this is why i'd sleep better if i leave italy with my > > films. talking about such slow films should avoid > > me the risk of having them damaged by x-rays, > > too. I quite like FP4+ (actually, I like HP5 too, but maybe not for 16x20 landscapes). At that size FP4 certainly won't be grainless, but I find its grain structure to be quite attractive. But for a special trip it would certainly be best to use a film that you are already familiar with - so maybe trying to get a store in Vegas to delive Delta 100 to your hotel would be the best idea. Hope the trip goes well, Peter > [SNIP] > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Sahara Camera might do it - but only if you paid them for the service... I called a few places down there today and emailed the OP off list, Sahara only has 10 rolls of 35 mm and 8 rolls of 120 in stock right now. Casey's Camera says they always have it in stock, I didn't think to ask how much they had on hand. Both places close at 6 on weekdays and 5 on Saturday, not open at all on Sunday. I couldn't get Ritz to answer the phone, must be pretty busy there, but I would guess that they might be the one place that has later hours. It occurred to me later that it might be possible to talk the *hotel* into sending somebody over to grab the order. I guess it depends on how fancy the hotel is. Maybe if all else fails he could have the camera store just put the film in a box and mail it to the hotel. >>St. George isn't that small a town. All of these towns >>sit right near National Parks. There will be at least [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > actually: you'll have no trouble getting Kodacolor Gold, but might find no > B&W film at all, even in Moab or Blanding. I've never looked for B&W film in any of these places. I guess I don't really see the point of going there with all the gorgeous color and shooting B&W. Not that I think a person couldn't get great shots, just not something I would do. I'll say though that even Wal-Mart carries B&W film. It's crappy B&W film (Kodak C41 ISO 400), but they do have it. They used to carry Tri-X, but I've not seen that in a while on the shelves. SignatureAngela M. Cable Paint Shop Pro 9 Private Beta Tester Neocognition, digital scrapbooking source: http://www.neocognition.com/ PSP Tutorial Links: http://www.psplinks.com/ 5th Street Studio, free graphics, websets and more: http://www.fortunecity.com/westwood/alaia/354/ >I've never looked for B&W film in any of these places. I guess I don't >really see the point of going there with all the gorgeous color and >shooting B&W. Not that I think a person couldn't get great shots, just >not something I would do. I'll say though that even Wal-Mart carries B&W >film. It's crappy B&W film (Kodak C41 ISO 400), but they do have it. >They used to carry Tri-X, but I've not seen that in a while on the shelves. first of all, thank you *very* much for your email. i think b&w is just different from color, not more beautyful nor less. i'll be shooting 135 format velvias all the time, but also wanted to carry with me my rolleiflex to take some b&w shoots in 120 format of the most impressive sights --plus, having some coloured filters with us i should be able to get very different shots of the same place--. b&w has some magic in it, due to its being so far from reality, and 6x6 format is awesome. i'm going to call casey's in vegas later today to ask them if they're going to ship the films to st. george and i'll call my motel to know if they're going to accept a parcel shipped to me at their address. let's cross our fingers :) bye! SignatureGianni Rondinini (30, tanti, RA) VBR - Vero Birro Romagnolo Hai capito, scelf? >>I've never looked for B&W film in any of these places. I guess I don't >>really see the point of going there with all the gorgeous color and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > first of all, thank you *very* much for your email. No problem. With my cell phone plan, calling Las Vegas doesn't cost me anything. > i think b&w is just different from color, not more beautyful nor less. It's not that I don't like B&W, there's a lot of stuff that I think looks best in B&W. I just probably would not do it in that part of the country. I've been to Moab (Arches, Canyonlands-Islands in the Sky, Dead Horse State Park) a couple of times and the area around Zion National Park once, I had B&W film with me, just never loaded any up because I was having too much fun shooting color I guess. While I'm thinking of it, here are some links: National Weather Service, type in the city and state like, "St. George, UT" for the weather forecast: http://www.nws.noaa.gov/ Make sure the air conditioning in whatever vehicle you're renting is working and working really well before you leave the rental place. It's boiling hot there this time of year in normal years and they've been having a heat wave in that part of the country. Stop at a store when you get to wherever you're staying and buy one of those large, round, plastic water coolers with a spigot on it. Fill that up with ice from the hotel's machine in the morning before leaving the hotel and top it off with water to take with you. That ice will all melt before the day is through, but trust me, you'll be glad that you have it. National Park Service, not sure where all you'll be going: Zion: http://www.nps.gov/zion/index.htm Bryce: http://www.nps.gov/brca/index.htm Arches: http://www.nps.gov/arch/index.htm Canyonlands: http://www.nps.gov/cany/index.htm Cedar Breaks: http://www.nps.gov/cebr/index.htm Mesa Verde: http://www.nps.gov/meve/index.htm All parks on a geographic map: http://data2.itc.nps.gov/parksearch/geosearch.cfm A list of Utah's State parks: http://www.stateparks.utah.gov/visiting/visiting.htm Dead Horse Point State Park and Kodachrome Basin are in the areas that I think you are going to. Oh, here's a better link, it has the parks shown on a map of the state: http://www.stateparks.utah.gov/visiting/tour.htm Here's one for Colorado: http://parks.state.co.us/default.asp?action=search&search=park > i'll be shooting 135 format velvias all the time, but also wanted to > carry with me my rolleiflex to take some b&w shoots in 120 format of [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > let's cross our fingers :) Got mine crossed :-) Good luck and have a wonderful time on your trip. SignatureAngela M. Cable Paint Shop Pro 9 Private Beta Tester Neocognition, digital scrapbooking source: http://www.neocognition.com/ PSP Tutorial Links: http://www.psplinks.com/ 5th Street Studio, free graphics, websets and more: http://www.fortunecity.com/westwood/alaia/354/ >> i think b&w is just different from color, not more beautyful nor less. > >It's not that I don't like B&W, there's a lot of stuff that I think >looks best in B&W. I just probably would not do it in that part of the >country. I've been to Moab (Arches, Canyonlands-Islands in the Sky, Dead well, if i had to decide wether to shoot color or b&w, i'd have gone color; but i took with my my rolleiflex and had the possibility to go on shooting my beloved velvias --i'm sorry: i like 100f's :)-- and kept my rolleiflex for b&w. i think that many things look great in b&w when you talk about landscapes. using filters lets you modify grey values corresponding to different colors and it's another thing you can do. i hope i was able to get good shots: this wednesday i'll go into my darkroom to develop the rolls... >Make sure the air conditioning in whatever vehicle you're renting is >working and working really well before you leave the rental place. It's it was working, but the weather has been so bad during almost all our holiday --excluding the days we've spent in vegas, 98 to 108 degrees, my ford said-- that we've kept it almost always off. >off with water to take with you. That ice will all melt before the day >is through, but trust me, you'll be glad that you have it. fortunately, we found motels with fridge for most of the nights we've spent in usa. we had some aluminium bottles with thick exterior padding that kept our gatorades cool until evening. >Got mine crossed :-) Good luck and have a wonderful time on your trip. we had it, even if we got quite bad weather :) i'll post a report of our trip on rec.travels.usa-canada: i'll let you know when it'll be online. regards, SignatureGianni Rondinini (30, tanti, RA) VBR - Vero Birro Romagnolo Hai capito, scelf? > I've never looked for B&W film in any of these places. I guess I don't > really see the point of going there with all the gorgeous color and > shooting B&W. Have you seen Ansel Adam's pictures shot in the Southwest? I've got the book, and it inspired me to convert some of my scanned slides of the area to B&W in Photoshop. :-))) Slainte Liz SignatureVirtual Liz now at http://www.v-liz.com Kenya; Tanzania; Namibia; India; Seychelles; Galapagos Photo blog of Make Povery History rally in Edinburgh 2 July 2005: http://www.v-liz.com/g8rally/protest.htm >>I've never looked for B&W film in any of these places. I guess I don't >>really see the point of going there with all the gorgeous color and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > slides of the area to B&W in Photoshop. > :-))) Yes, I've seen them. I also realize that I am no Ansel Adams :-) I do shoot B&W, just generally not with scenics. I did fool around with infrared B&W a few of years ago, couple of rolls of mostly scenic, and got some stuff that I think is probably not terrible. The times I've been down in that area though, I've never thought, "Gee, wish I'd brought more B&W film". SignatureAngela M. Cable Paint Shop Pro 9 Private Beta Tester Neocognition, digital scrapbooking source: http://www.neocognition.com/ PSP Tutorial Links: http://www.psplinks.com/ 5th Street Studio, free graphics, websets and more: http://www.fortunecity.com/westwood/alaia/354/ >> I've never looked for B&W film in any of these places. I guess I don't >> really see the point of going there with all the gorgeous color and [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Liz You can always shoot chromes and enlarge them onto internegs if you want B-&-W down the road. I used to do that a lot back when all I pretty much shot was slide. SignatureJohn - www.puresilver.org -- John - www.puresilver.org > You can always shoot chromes and enlarge them onto internegs if you want > B-&-W down the road. I used to do that a lot back when all I pretty much > shot was slide. I think I heard Kodak has discontinued interneg film. Still available from Fuji?? SignatureLF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 >> You can always shoot chromes and enlarge them onto internegs if you want >> B-&-W down the road. I used to do that a lot back when all I pretty much >> shot was slide. > > I think I heard Kodak has discontinued interneg film. Still available > from Fuji?? I haven't taken any time to look into it as I no longer shoot chromes. Delta 100 should work as well as SO239 if developed in D-23. SignatureJohn - www.puresilver.org >Have you seen Ansel Adam's pictures shot in the Southwest? i got the "small" one, in square format, this time. it's really nice. regards, SignatureGianni Rondinini (30, tanti, RA) VBR - Vero Birro Romagnolo Hai capito, scelf? >> St. George isn't that small a town. All of these towns >> sit right near National Parks. There will be at least [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > actually: you'll have no trouble getting Kodacolor Gold, but might find no > B&W film at all, even in Moab or Blanding. There was a pretty good *small* photo shop just off the main street in Moab which was the only place *I found* on my SW trip which sold Provia film, (and it was kept in a fridge), and I'm pretty sure it had B&W film at that time too. Mind you, that was in 2001. Alternatively, would a company like B&H in NYC not ship out to a specified address in short order? Slainte Liz SignatureVirtual Liz now at http://www.v-liz.com Kenya; Tanzania; Namibia; India; Seychelles; Galapagos Photo blog of Make Povery History rally in Edinburgh 2 July 2005: http://www.v-liz.com/g8rally/protest.htm > Alternatively, would a company like B&H in NYC not ship out to a > specified address in short order? I'd never count on one of the stores in NYC such as B-&-H. They're great on the price-point but I'd much rather pay Calumet a few extra dollars and know that I'm going to have my supplies in a few days. SignatureJohn - www.puresilver.org > > Alternatively, would a company like B&H in NYC not ship out to a > > specified address in short order? > > I'd never count on one of the stores in NYC such as B-&-H. They're great > on the price-point but I'd much rather pay Calumet a few extra dollars and > know that I'm going to have my supplies in a few days. Guys, it's time to let this thread die. The original poster has flown from Italy, is now on safari into the wilds of Zion NP on the park shuttle, either with or without his Delta 100 in 120 format. Hopefully, he will follow up with a report on whether he solved his last minute film supply problem and if so, how. > Guys, it's time to let this thread die. Who cares. SignatureLF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 >> Guys, it's time to let this thread die. > > Who cares. Agreed SignatureJohn - www.puresilver.org >Alternatively, would a company like B&H in NYC not ship out to a >specified address in short order? i called them, but they didn't accept a foreigner credit card by phone. regards, SignatureGianni Rondinini (30, tanti, RA) VBR - Vero Birro Romagnolo Hai capito, scelf? >>Alternatively, would a company like B&H in NYC not ship out to a >>specified address in short order? > > i called them, but they didn't accept a foreigner credit card by > phone. Ah, thanks for the information: I've thought of ordering stuff from them myself to be delivered out when I'm Stateside. Ah well! Slainte Liz SignatureVirtual Liz now at http://www.v-liz.com Kenya; Tanzania; Namibia; India; Seychelles; Galapagos Photo blog of Make Povery History rally in Edinburgh 2 July 2005: http://www.v-liz.com/g8rally/protest.htm >> i called them, but they didn't accept a foreigner credit card by >> phone. > >Ah, thanks for the information: I've thought of ordering stuff from >them myself to be delivered out when I'm Stateside. a german boy i've been talking with was able to have something shipped by b&h to las vegas, but there's quite a bit of trick to do. the best is if you drop b&h a phone call and ask how you can do it --i had no time to fax them my monthly bill, a copy of my passport and so on, before leaving--. regards, SignatureGianni Rondinini (30, tanti, RA) VBR - Vero Birro Romagnolo Hai capito, scelf? >this saturday morning i'll leave to go to southwest usa with my wife. >we'll be visiting some nat'l parks and will hike here and there. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >thank you in advance. > If you want to make 20 x24 prints, you would do better with ISO 100 film than ISO 400. fp4+ is ISO 125 is it not? Do you mean HP5+, which is ISO 400? As between t-grain films and traditional films, the t-grains are generally finer grain for the same speed. The film curve of T-grains is more straight line than that of the traditional films, which tends to have more of a foot and a shoulder. If you expect to be in intense daylight (which the Southwest USA has in abundance) then a slower film with fine grain and a long straight line segment of the curve would be my choice. Hence, Delta 100. Or Kodak TMX. I also suggest buying the film in the USA. It will go through one less x-ray examination. I do not know how prices compare between Italy and America, but you should be able to locate, in advance, camera stores in one of the cities you go through in the USA in order to get a decent selection at a decent price. Francis A. Miniter > America, but you should be able to locate, in advance, camera stores in > one of the cities you go through in the USA in order to get a decent > selection at a decent price. Qwest has online yellow and white pages, now that I think about it: http://www.dexonline.com/ Using "photography" in the first box seems to turn up the best results. SignatureAngela M. Cable Paint Shop Pro 9 Private Beta Tester Neocognition, digital scrapbooking source: http://www.neocognition.com/ PSP Tutorial Links: http://www.psplinks.com/ 5th Street Studio, free graphics, websets and more: http://www.fortunecity.com/westwood/alaia/354/ >If you want to make 20 x24 prints, you would do better with ISO 100 film sure. >than ISO 400. fp4+ is ISO 125 is it not? Do you mean HP5+, which is no, i'm talking about fp4+, which is 125. here at home i have delta 400 and fp4 125. >are generally finer grain for the same speed. The film curve of >T-grains is more straight line than that of the traditional films, which >tends to have more of a foot and a shoulder. If you expect to be in ok, i understand. until now, i've taken bw shots expecially at live jazz concerts and in situations in which a delta3200 was the best i could desire --thick grain, strong contrast, very high speed...--, but national parks are something completely different, so i'm a little bit messy... >slower film with fine grain and a long straight line segment of the >curve would be my choice. Hence, Delta 100. Or Kodak TMX. i used a couple of tmx rolls in 135 format and i didn't like it very much. delta 100 seemed to be better for my likes. >x-ray examination. I do not know how prices compare between Italy and >America, but you should be able to locate, in advance, camera stores in >one of the cities you go through in the USA in order to get a decent >selection at a decent price. well, i've seen that (big online stores apart) american film prices are higher than italian ones, but film price is a very little part of what you spend for holidays and then spending a couple of dollars more per roll wouldn't be a problem. if we think at the beauty of what i'm going to photograph, film price isn't an issue at all. i'll use the link angela suggested me to look in the town we'll sleep if i can locate some stores. i know of a couple of big ones in vegas, but chances are that they'll close in the evening before i'll be able to get there. thank you for your help. bye! SignatureGianni Rondinini (30, tanti, RA) VBR - Vero Birro Romagnolo Hai capito, scelf? > well, i've seen that (big online stores apart) american film prices > are higher than italian ones, but film price is a very little part of > what you spend for holidays and then spending a couple of dollars more > per roll wouldn't be a problem. if we think at the beauty of what i'm > going to photograph, film price isn't an issue at all. Bill Rogers Camera 918 South 4th Street Las Vegas, NV 89101 (702) 382-8736 Product lines: Film Cameras B & C Camera 4521 W. Sahara Las Vegas, NV 89102 (702) 871-1100 Product lines: Binoculars, Digital SLR, Film Cameras, Digital Point & Shoot Lambs Camera 4229 W. Sahara Las Vegas, NV 89102-3713 (702) 876-0966 Product lines: Film Cameras Cashman Photo 3660 Cinder Lane Las Vegas, NV 89103 (702) 871-8300 Product lines: Digital SLR, Film Cameras, Digital Point & Shoot Sahara Camera Center 2305 E. Sahara Las Vegas, NV 89104 (702) 457-3333 Product lines: Binoculars, Digital SLR, Film Cameras, Film Medium Format, Digital Point & Shoot Gordons Photo Service 1227 E. Carson St. Carson City, NV 89701 (775) 883-3078 Product lines: Binoculars, Digital SLR, Film Cameras, Digital Point & Shoot Inkley's 2715 Argent Avenue, #9 Gateway Center Elko, NV 89801 775-738-8608 Product lines: Film Cameras, Digital SLR, Digital Point & Shoot Good Guys #110 621 Mall Ring Circle Henderson, NV 89014 (702) 451-7790 Product lines: Binoculars, Digital SLR, Film Cameras, Digital Point & Shoot Sport Chalet 701 Marks Street Henderson, NV 89014 (702) 451-1211 Product lines: Binoculars Wolf Camera 675 Mall Ring Circle The Galleria at Sunset Henderson, NV 89014 702-450-7405 Product lines: Film Cameras, Digital SLR, Digital Point & Shoot Ritz Camera 1300 Sunset Road Galleria at Sunset, #2511 Henderson, NV 89014 702-435-8840 Product lines: Film Cameras, Digital SLR, Digital Point & Shoot R. C. Willey 20 No. Stephanie Drive Henderson, NV 89074 (702) 858-8032 Product lines: Digital SLR, Film Cameras, Digital Point & Shoot SignatureLF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 |
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