Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
PhotoKB Home
Discussion Groups
Digital Photography
Digital PhotoDSLR CamerasZLR CamerasPoint & Shoot Cameras
Film Photography
35 mmLarge FormatMedium formatDarkroomFilm and LabsOther Equipment
Photo Technique
Nature PhotographyPeople PhotographyTechnique General
General Photo Topics
General TopicsAustralian PhotographyUK Photography
DirectoryPhoto Clubs

Photo Forum / Photo Technique / Nature Photography / August 2005

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Wildflower Paparazzi

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
bogus - 25 Jul 2005 17:58 GMT
Just returned from photographing wildflowers in Colorado, and I find
myself, for the first time, very unhappy with an aspect of photography
that seems to assume carte blanche to trash the environment just
because we carry cameras.  Probably the best example is American
Basin.  Within one week, the flowers have been trampled by numerous
photographers looking for that perfect shot.  It breaks my heart to
see this pristine environment, which includes dozens of species, so
trashed.

And it is having a long term effect.  Old-timers tell me that Yankee
Boy isn't even worth visiting any more. The columbines no longer grow
where they used to, because of soil compaction.

I saw, on my last visit to Maroon Bells, a good example of this
change.  Much of what used to be covered in a great variety now shows
very few species.  

Most of the photos shot in these places will be tossed as outtakes, or
left in a drawer.  Not much of an honor for so much destruction.

So, fellow nature photographers, just what are our ethics on this
issue?

Jack
Norm Dresner - 25 Jul 2005 22:27 GMT
> Just returned from photographing wildflowers in Colorado, and I find
> myself, for the first time, very unhappy with an aspect of photography
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> Jack

How long a macro lens do you carry?

   Norm
bogus - 26 Jul 2005 00:15 GMT
Which brings up another point:

Why would anyone drive 22 miles on a rough, 4wd road to do macro work
on a columbine that they could just as easily see in a nursery in
Denver?

>> Just returned from photographing wildflowers in Colorado, and I find
>> myself, for the first time, very unhappy with an aspect of photography
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
>    Norm
Norm Dresner - 26 Jul 2005 00:45 GMT
> Which brings up another point:
>
> Why would anyone drive 22 miles on a rough, 4wd road to do macro work
> on a columbine that they could just as easily see in a nursery in
> Denver?

Well, I'm not the OP but I'll give you my answer:

   It's quite likely that there was much more there , even if just
background scenery, than just one kind of flower.

Norm
Dean Van Praotl - 26 Jul 2005 01:06 GMT
bogus <bogus@bogus.ru> apparently said:

>Which brings up another point:
>
>Why would anyone drive 22 miles on a rough, 4wd road to do macro work
>on a columbine that they could just as easily see in a nursery in
>Denver?

That's simple:  because it's not in Denver, nor in
any other overpopulated, overpolluted, concrete
rabbit warren.
bogus - 26 Jul 2005 01:18 GMT
Well, that's what we photographers are doing to it. Making it
overpopulated and polluting it.  

Listen:

I am a photographer. I'm not just trolling here.  This is a serious
issue, in my mind, because we serve as an example.  If ma and pa
snapshooter see us out there trampling the flora, then won't they,
because they also have cameras and want that"best shot" feel empowered
to do the same?

>bogus <bogus@bogus.ru> apparently said:
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>any other overpopulated, overpolluted, concrete
>rabbit warren.
Dean Van Praotl - 26 Jul 2005 22:15 GMT
bogus <bogus@bogus.ru> apparently said:

> If ma and pa
>snapshooter see us out there trampling the flora, then won't they,
>because they also have cameras and want that"best shot" feel empowered
>to do the same?

I 'spect they will.  I gotta run; I want to get there afore they do.

It sounds like you're suggesting that we should all just stay
home, secure in the knowledge that there are beautiful places
out there even if we can't go see them?  The sad news for you,
is that the idiots who trample everything into mud will do so
with or without someone in front of them.  People are born
ignorant, and without education they grow up stupid.  Maybe
a few more of us should be out there showing some respect
for the environment as an example. I try to leave the landscape
in as good, or better, condition than I find it.

If it is the destiny of our wild places, to be stomped to death
by hoards of nature lovers, my presence or absence will make
little difference.
Jer - 27 Jul 2005 02:49 GMT
> bogus <bogus@bogus.ru> apparently said:
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> by hoards of nature lovers, my presence or absence will make
> little difference.

True, but our overt concern and consideration witnessed by others will.
 Education is often best served through demonstration.

Signature

jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'

Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark) - 26 Jul 2005 04:39 GMT
> Just returned from photographing wildflowers in Colorado, and I find
> myself, for the first time, very unhappy with an aspect of photography
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> Jack

Jack,
Just this afternoon I returned from a week in the Colorado
mountains hiking and photographing wildflowers.  I live in the
Denver area and have been photographing wildflowers in
Colorado for over 20 years.  See:
          http://www.clarkvision.com
My most serious wildflower photography began when I started
with large format (4x5), about 15 years ago.

I was in the San Juans the last few days, as I am most summers,
as well as many other areas around the state, and I am very
aware of the species of flowers in different areas and how they
change from year to year.  And I must say, the species
appearing in the same spot has varied a lot over the last few
years.  We have been in a drought for several years until
this last winter.  This spring was very wet and the winter
was a larger than average snow pack.  It was looking like it
might be a record year for wildflowers (the last was 1997).
June was the second wettest June on record in Denver.
But then it dried out.  The snow was still crushing any
vegetation in the high country (areas I visited in early
July that normally would be carpets of wildflowers were
either covered in snow as deep as 6 feet or the vegetation
was still smashed into the ground from the heavy snow pack).

The last month of dry weather smashed hopes of a great
or even good wildflower year.  Places I visited in the San Juans
in the last week had 1/4 to 1/8 the wildflowers seen in a
normal year.  I've been to multiple basins multiple times
including American and Yankee Boy basins.  Over the last
6 years, wildflower populations have changed dramatically
all across the state.  Flowers that were there one year
were not the next, nor the next.  This year there has been
very little color: mostly little white flowers (a couple
of varieties I need to look up).

While I do not doubt that people, including photographers,
can have an impact on an area, what you have seen this year
is most likely not due to people, but the heavy and late melting
snow pack combined with years of drought.  Yankee Boy basin
can be very crowded, and I would not blame any trampling
of vegetation solely on photographers (amateur or pro), but
by the shear mass of people tromping all over the area.

Personally, I no longer identify specific basins, but will only
specify the mountains (like "San Juans").  There are so
many basins with great wildflowers that one need not go solely
to Yankee Boy or American basin.  The basins I visited on this
trip had 1 to 2 dozen people, mostly 4-wheelers and hikers,
and only a couple of photographers.  In general, it is my opinion
that they had little impact compared to what the snow pack did,
the drought, or the month of virtually no rain.

When I photograph wildflowers, I try and find local bare
spots to put my gear down, and to stand in bare spots
while photographing (my back usually hurts from contorted
positions in the usual 45-minute session for one 4x5 scene).
But no matter how hard I try, some vegetation gets smashed
to the ground.  When I leave, I try and ruffle (if that is
the right word) the vegetation so it does not remain smashed
to the ground.  It should recover in a day or so, given some
rain.  It is no different than when deer or elk bed down
for the night.  Some vegetation gets smashed, but will recover.

So, in summary, the change in wildflowers you've observed is
natural due to changing conditions.  High mountain basins
are just now emerging from heavy snow pack and the vegetation is
still smashed to the ground in many areas, especially near
or above treelike.

"Old Timers" who say Yankee Boy isn't worth visiting any more
don't understand the ecosystem, or are annoyed with the crowds.
I rarely go to Yankee Boy any more but mostly because I
want to explore new areas.  Areas like American Basin are so
large that I suspect if you paid 100 people to spend 10 hours
per day trying to trample it down for a week, they couldn't
do it.

Here is a good example of the compaction issue due to the heavy
snow, and change in flowers:

Wildflowers in a drought year, July 4, 2002:
http://clarkvision.com/galleries/gallery.wildflowers/web/indian_peaks_wilderness
c07.04.2002.L4.07c-600.html


Same spot this year, on July 2, 2005:
http://www.clarkvision.com/tmp/JZ3F1588-b-700.jpg

Notice only a few white flowers in 2005, but many varieties in
2002, including bluebells near the top of the stream.
This has NOTHING to do with people impact.

Roger
J. P. Scott - 28 Jul 2005 17:06 GMT
> Here is a good example of the compaction issue due to the heavy
> snow, and change in flowers:
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Roger

Roger, I so enjoyed your website.  Just spent some time there.  I
notice you're into astro photography.  We're trying to introduce it to
our site and so far we have one article that you might enjoy reading
here:

http://www.photography-cafe.com/forum/index.php?topic=527.0

We'd love to have more input from folks like you.

Pat

* * * * *
Join us at Photography Cafe!
http://photography-cafe.com
J. P. Scott - 28 Jul 2005 17:17 GMT
> Here is a good example of the compaction issue due to the heavy
> snow, and change in flowers:
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Roger

Roger, I so enjoyed your website.  Just spent some time there.  I
notice you're into astro photography.  We're trying to introduce it to
our site and so far we have one article that you might enjoy reading
here:

http://www.photography-cafe.com/forum/index.php?topic=527.0

We'd love to have more input from folks like you.

Pat

* * * * *
Join us at Photography Cafe!
http://photography-cafe.com
J. P. Scott - 28 Jul 2005 17:21 GMT
Jack, I understand your concern about trampling flowers down.
Sometimes it's impossible though to miss some of the flora when getting
from Point A to Point B in certain areas.

I tend to just stay on the trails through our nature areas and that
seems to work quite well but it's not Colorado!  ;)

Pat
bogus - 05 Aug 2005 16:15 GMT
Thanks, All, for your thoughtful responses. It's given me something
more to think about.  And thanks, Roger, for sharing your excellent
website

Jack

>Jack, I understand your concern about trampling flowers down.
>Sometimes it's impossible though to miss some of the flora when getting
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Pat
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2008 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.