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Photo Forum / Photo Technique / Nature Photography / September 2004

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Landscape Round 2

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Ray Creveling - 14 Sep 2004 01:16 GMT
This weekend I was able to get back to the same spot that I had the camera
failure last time. I shot print film since that was all I had and hope they
will come out well. After reading John Shaw's Nature Photography Field Guide
I'm thinking of switching to slides. I never applied the Zone system to
color before but he makes a very convincing argument. The most interesting
part of the trip was my tripod. I brought my New/Used Benbo because it's
much lighter than my other tripods and I thought I might do some Macro. It
worked superbly though I'm glad I took some advice and always held the
camera while loosening the handle or else I would be shy 1 canon body. I'm
looking forward to reshooting the area at sunset with slides.

BTW any slide film recommendations?

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Ray Creveling
http://www.blackcatblog.com

Robertwgross - 14 Sep 2004 02:22 GMT
RAy wrote:
>This weekend I was able to get back to the same spot that I had the camera
>failure last time. I shot print film since that was all I had and hope they
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>BTW any slide film recommendations?

Velvia 50. No question.

---Bob Gross---
Ray Creveling - 14 Sep 2004 02:31 GMT
My understanding was that Velvia is very high contrast. my concern would be
as a new shooter that it's a tough film to control. would you still
recommend it?

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Ray Creveling
http://www.blackcatblog.com

> RAy wrote:
> >This weekend I was able to get back to the same spot that I had the camera
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> ---Bob Gross---
MDCORE - 14 Sep 2004 14:41 GMT
Velvia

is a very high contrast film, but isn't that hard to "control". You need to
learn which situations it works best in, and the most educational way is to try
it in different situations, and see what works.
Provia is a less contrasty and equally fine grained film. The 100 Provia has
become a standard for many people who shoot what you seem to like.
Why don't you get a few rolls of each and try them out.
Sorry if I'm actually responding here with getting too crazy- this thread,
which I've followed albeit silently, has taken more than a few wierd turns.

dukephoto
Ray Creveling - 15 Sep 2004 01:06 GMT
I'll pick up 5 & 5 with my next B&H order unless I can find some local.
maybe I 'll slip that manfrotto 3027 head in the order when the wife is not
looking :)

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Ray Creveling
http://www.blackcatblog.com

> Velvia
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> dukephoto
John Fiskio-Lasseter - 14 Sep 2004 16:25 GMT
> My understanding was that Velvia is very high contrast. my concern would be
> as a new shooter that it's a tough film to control. would you still
> recommend it?

It's true that Velvia has very high contrast, but so does pretty much
every other slide film.  Velvia has higher contrast than most everything
else, though.  You might look at Fuji's Sensia for a lower contrast,
less saturated alternative.

But really, I'd learn to shoot Velvia, especially for "magic hour"
light.  The colors are really lovely.

Some general tips to avoid the contrast blowout:

1. The tonal range is greatly compressed.  From the "neutral gray" tone
  (zone V), you half about 1 1/2 stops of usable tone both above and
  below this.  Sunlit snow, for example (the brightest tone that still
  has detail) is 1.5 to 2 stops above mid-tone.

2. Don't use an overall metering of the scene, unless the lighting is
  consistent throughout -- try to spot meter your darkest and lightest
  areas, and count the number of stops between them.  Set your exposure
  to the mid-point of this.  

  However, if the difference is more than 3, there's no exposure that
  will work.  In that case, make sure you meter correctly for the high
  areas, assume the dark areas will be rendered as black on the slide,
  and compose accordingly.

3. In full daylight, use a "sunny-16" rule with an ISO speed of 40, not
  50.  I.e., expose at 1/90s at f/11 or the equivalent.

4. It is impossible to accurately expose both shadows and sunlight areas
  with Velvia.  Expose for the sunlit areas and compose accordingly.

5. At sunset/sunrise, the difference between the sky and areas not lit
  by the sun is at least 3 stops, which is beyond the usable contrast
  range.  If you want detail in the foreground and color in the sky,
  get a split neutral-density filter:  I use a 2-stop filter, but keep
  a black card to dodge an additional stop's worth during exposures.

  Otherwise, compose with black foreground elements in mind.

Finally, three non-contrast related tips:

1. Reciprocity failure is actually quite good.  Below 4 seconds, I've
  never needed any compensation.  Between 4 and 10 seconds, I add 1/2
  stop; between 10 and 60 seconds, a full stop.  There's a noticeable
  shift to blue above 60 seconds.

2. If you're in the same lighting as the subject you're trying to shoot,
  the palm of your hand makes a good exposure reference point --
  whether you're light or dark-skinned overall, middle gray is one stop
  darker than most palms (i.e., meter your palm and add one stop).

3. Velvia doesn't render light-skinned people well, as it tends to
  over-saturate.  A good rule of thumb is to over-expose by 1/2 stop.

Anyway, I hope that's helpful.  It's well worth learning to use this
film.  It's truly wonderful.

-- John

Signature

---------------------------------------------------------
John H. E. F. Lasseter
* Phd. Student,           CIS Dept., University of Oregon
* Deschutes 234     541/346-1385    johnfl@cs.uoregon.edu
---------------------------------------------------------

Uranium Committee - 14 Sep 2004 17:05 GMT
> My understanding was that Velvia is very high contrast. my concern would be
> as a new shooter that it's a tough film to control. would you still
> recommend it?

Kodachrome 64 Professional.

> > RAy wrote:
> > >This weekend I was able to get back to the same spot that I had the
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.760 / Virus Database: 509 - Release Date: 9/10/2004
Ray Creveling - 19 Sep 2004 03:12 GMT
Thanks for all the great advice. I posted a few shots from my first foray
into nature work. http://www.flickr.com/photos/rcrev/

Signature

Ray Creveling
http://www.blackcatblog.com

> This weekend I was able to get back to the same spot that I had the camera
> failure last time. I shot print film since that was all I had and hope
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> BTW any slide film recommendations?
 
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