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Photo Forum / Photo Technique / Nature Photography / September 2004

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Northern Arizona trip recommendations

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Rodney Boles - 19 Aug 2004 04:53 GMT
I just made a reservation at Phantom Ranch for September 23 (thurs)
this past weekend. I'm starting to throw together plans for the entire
week. I'll probably fly into Las Vegas on either Friday night or Sat
morning and head  up I-15 to 89. From there, I have no idea at this
point until I get to the Grand Canyon (South Rim) the night before my
hike down. Was thinking of doing either Antelope Canyon or Betatakin
on Wednesday so I'd be close to the South Rim afterwards to sightsee
on the rim before crashing early before my big hike down.

The things I MUST do between Saturday morning and Wednesday are
Antelope Canyon, Monument Valley, and Betatakin. I'd also really like
to spend some time exploring 89 West of Page (the Paria/Vermillion
Cliffs area). I've been to the Utah National Parks, so don't plan on
doing those again, exept perhaps stopping by the Kolub Canyon area of
Zion (skipped that last time).

I'm really interested in Canyon de Chelly, the various sites between
Mexican Hat and Blanding, and Mesa Verde. The latter seems too far to
easily fit in, so I've all but ruled it out. I don't want to be
driving a ton (unless the drive is drop dead stunningly beautiful).

Please help with days 1-4:

1) Depart Vegas, then what? Kolob Canyon? Vermillion Cliffs? Paria?
Drive all day to somewhere?

2, 3, 4) Open

Would like to arrive at Monument Valley one afternoon and camp
overnight with plenty of time next AM for photos.

4) Need to camp somewhere convenient to Antelope Canyon or Betatakin.

The last part of the trip, I feel like I've got a good grip on where
I'll be (due to my firm plans on day 6):

5) Betatakin hike or Antelope Canyon in morning. Drive to South Rim.
sunset photos then early bed
6) Hike to Phantom Ranch via South Kaibab. overnight at PR
7) Return hike via Bright Angel trail. probably stay at South Rim
again? Don't know that I'd be up for driving far after the hike.
8) (SATURDAY) Drive back to Vegas. Visit Hoover Dam on the way. gamble
and drink
9) either return home or maybe one more night in Vegas

Oh, one more thing. I LOVE hiking, but don't want to overdue it before
Thursday. Some short hikes 2-3 miles are fine most days, but don't
want to be doing big hikes every day. The Betatakin hike sounds too
good to pass up, though. I'll mainly be taking in the beauty and
snapping photos. Really want to relax and focus on the camera and
getting the "perfect" shot. Maximizing good light will be VERY
important to me.

Also, looking for any good tent camping suggestions. Love staying at
scenic campgrounds (Kodachrome SP in Utah was perfect, for instace).

MUCH thanks for any advice.

Rodney
Wolfgang Kieckbusch - 19 Aug 2004 09:42 GMT
> 5) Betatakin hike or Antelope Canyon in morning.

Antelope Canyon you better visit between 11 am and 1 pm.
Only at this time you can make very god photographs!
Greetings from Germany
Wolfgang
Bill Hilton - 19 Aug 2004 16:13 GMT
>> 5) Betatakin hike or Antelope Canyon in morning.

>From: "Wolfgang Kieckbusch" wolfgang.1.kieckbusch@spamgourmet.com
>
>Antelope Canyon you better visit between 11 am and 1 pm.
>Only at this time you can make very god photographs!

This is pretty much true for upper Antelope, but lower Antelope is good all
day.
Doug McDonald - 19 Aug 2004 17:16 GMT
>>5) Betatakin hike or Antelope Canyon in morning.
>
> Antelope Canyon you better visit between 11 am and 1 pm.
> Only at this time you can make very god photographs!

He's got that backwards: it's hard to get really good photos
between 11 am and 1 PM, becuase the sun shines down far into
the canyons and the contrast is simply too great for any film.

At other times the contrast is less, and you will get great
photos ... but you will need a tripod since the exposures
will range in the 1/4 to 10 second range.

If you have to use a hand held camera, especially  a cheapie
one, you may be stuck near noon if you want any picture
at all.

Doug McDonald
Bill Hilton - 20 Aug 2004 00:22 GMT
>> Wolfgang Kieckbusch wrote:
>>
>> Antelope Canyon you better visit between 11 am and 1 pm.
>> Only at this time you can make very god photographs!

>From: Doug McDonald mcdonald@scs.uiuc.edu
>
>He's got that backwards:

No, he's right for UPPER Antelope.

> it's hard to get really good photos
>between 11 am and 1 PM, becuase the sun shines down far into
>the canyons and the contrast is simply too great for any film.

Upper AC is about 60 ft deep, the walls are pretty dark and the crack at top is
narrow.  Because of this the light is just too dim and low contrast to get good
images except when the sun is well over-head, as Wolfgang says.  The good
images from upper AC are usually taken between 11 and 2.

On the other hand, a quarter mile north at Lower Antelope the canyon is not as
deep, the sandstone is much lighter and the opening is much wider so you get
good reflected light in there most of the day, with some burnout around noon as
you mention.

Bill
Rodney Boles - 20 Aug 2004 03:39 GMT
> >>5) Betatakin hike or Antelope Canyon in morning.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Doug McDonald

I'll be shooting digital with a camera that only gets about 5 stops of
dynamic range. Definitely will have tripod and cable release. was leaning
towards a 9-11am trip. sounds like i'll get a good variety of light over that
time.
Doug McDonald - 20 Aug 2004 15:01 GMT
> I'll be shooting digital with a camera that only gets about 5 stops of
> dynamic range. Definitely will have tripod and cable release. was leaning
> towards a 9-11am trip. sounds like i'll get a good variety of light over that
> time.

That would have been a good time when I was there a month ago. If
you want sun at the bottom now you might need to stay a bit longer.

Doug MCDonald
Mindy - 19 Aug 2004 11:50 GMT
Monument Valley.....what a beautiful place to see and visit.....the Navajo
Nation holds truly one of the crown jewels of the west......this is a Navajo
Nation Park, not a national park, where the Navajo or Dine Nation has done a
fine job to service this area for your visit and tourist traffic......I was
some what leery as to what would be there, we all have seen the countless
pictures of the huge rock formations called the Mittens as well as many
movies or commercials filmed there.....but to actually visit and see this
vast area is truly awesome.....I am not sure of the exact cost of much of
the
things such as park entrance and camping fees, me being Navajo, I didn't get
charged these fees..... but they were very small compared to many National
Parks such as Mesa Verde and such.........

We camped at the Monument Valley camp ground which is right there at the
park
entrance.....from each camp pad you have a fantastic view of the top half of
the main Mitten formations towering above the canyon rim....soft powdery
sand make tent sites feel good for sleeping.....each site has a covered
picnic table and a fire pit or grill.....located within walking distance of
all sites
is a large bath house with hot water, showers and toilets....also
provided is a sink area for cleaning camp dishes with running hot
water too.....as well as tent camping there are RV pads there also, in fact
quite a number of pads are available for all types of camping....the only
problems I found to be is that you must first purchase tokens to work the
showers at the main park gift shop, a quarter machine would have been nicer
for the early riser or late night bather when the park shop is
closed......and it is dark, real dark in the camping area even with moon
light...of course this is excellent to be blanketed with a brilliant star
field above, just don't be tricked into believing this is adequate light to
find your way back from the bathhouse late at night...Gouldings Lodge and
Trading Post has been located about 10 miles west of the park entrance for
more than a century and a half..they offer rooms and pads for RV or tent
camping ..located also there is an old western movie studio from yester
year..the closest city is Keyenta, about 25  miles south of the park...here
are the major hotel chains such as Best Western and Holiday Inn...grocery
stores and gas available here too...this is a good place to fill up you
vehicle due to no other gas stations can be found for hours in either
direction...

Traveling in a Jeep Grand Cherokee 4x4, we didn't feel we would have any
problems on the roads down in the valley it self.....you drop several
hundred feet down a winding switchback road to a rough, rutted and sometimes
washed out road on the valley floor.. this road which winds thru this valley
can be hard on some low slung cars though I saw some cars and vans down
there navigating quite well.....but for the most part the road is fine, just
dusty.....but don't fear not being able to drive the valley, there are four
wheel drive trucks with seats on back which you can pay a small fee to a
Navajo guide service to travel the beaten path as well as hidden gems
forbidden to the general public traffic.....these guides are truly friendly
guys, joking and laughing with the passengers as well as giving information
on each stop about the formations around them.....there are a lot of sacred
places out there, even the huge Mitton formations are
sacred to the Navajo and that is why you must keep to the road or have a
guide show you other formations deep in the valley.....I wish I could paint
a mental picture to all about the many magnificent sights to be seen, yet
even
photos can't relay the feeling one gets enveloped by this beautiful
valley....

Highlights were stopping at John Ford's Lookout Point where you can gaze out
on the valley with the same perspective that Ford's countless western films
conveyed to the movie goer, even though the screen actors often refered that
they are
in Texas and such.LOL....here they have a couple of Navajo guys that will
help
you up on a horse, place a cowboy hat on your head and a fake rifle to
cradle in your arms so they can take a picture of you with this magnificent
background for a small fee....this is hilarious, European or Japanese
tourist trying to be cowboys
and attempting to climb on a horse....down right entertaining to say the
least.....actually the whole area is a Kodak moment, we shot 4 rolls of film
down there....I ran into a special Navajo photo guide who drove his cliental
around
in a fine new Suburban.....he or others like him are great to hire for the
serious photographer......he was kind enough to give me pointers and
perspectives as well....all in all, everyone goes out of their way to serve
the tourist as I saw it......

The Navajo sell jewelry at many outlooks.....please take time to look over
these beautiful items and know you are purchasing quality items from the
craft's person themselves.....this is important in that the money goes to
them and not to a dealer that pays them pennies on the dollar value.....they
are proud of their work and need this income to continue their craft and
every day expenses...

All in all, I am proud of my Navajo Nation....they have turned a beautiful
area into a financial resource that supplements many while it serves to
introduce thousands of visitors to our beautiful land and culture......

Just after I had photoed the sun emerging in all its glories colors and
saying my prayers out on the balcony of the visitor center, one of the
Navajo guides there who had been watching asked me what was I doing there,
acting like a tourist.....I replied " This place is even more beautiful than
my area of the rez outside of Gallup that starts the Painted Desert....I'm
an engineer in Dallas Fort Worth area now, where everything beautiful there
is man made..from the architecture, arts, even the trees that are planted,
everything has man's artificial touch to make something beautiful...I just
had to see with my own eyes the beauty the Holy Ones created for the Dine
people, a place where harmony envelopes all my senses..I have been away from
home too long "  ..the guide smiled, a knowing nod of his head told me he
knew exactly what I meant...

> I just made a reservation at Phantom Ranch for September 23 (thurs)
> this past weekend. I'm starting to throw together plans for the entire
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
>
> Rodney
Rodney Boles - 20 Aug 2004 03:40 GMT
Mindy, thanks for such an inspiring write-up on Monument Valley.
I can't wait to experience it!
TranSurgeon - 20 Aug 2004 14:31 GMT
Rodney;

If you have a choice of routes into MV, may I suggest:

UT-95 from just south of Blanding to Natural Bridges NM, then backtrack a
bit to UT-261

About 25 miles south on 261 you come to the 'Mokee Dugway', where the road
descends the side of the plateau in a series of 6 or 7 switchbacks.......

you drop something like 1300 ft in 3 miles to the floor of Monument Vallet;
the road bring you out to Rt 163 about 3-4 miles east of Mexican Hat

It's a great drive

Enjoy

G

> Mindy, thanks for such an inspiring write-up on Monument Valley.
> I can't wait to experience it!
Bill Hilton - 20 Aug 2004 16:14 GMT
>From: "TranSurgeon" nobulltrans@mchsi.dotcom

>About 25 miles south on 261 you come to the 'Mokee Dugway', where the road
>descends the side of the plateau in a series of 6 or 7 switchbacks.......
>
>you drop something like 1300 ft in 3 miles to the floor of Monument Valley;
>the road bring you out to Rt 163 about 3-4 miles east of Mexican Hat

This is NOT "the floor of Monument Valley", instead it's the Valley of the
Gods, which has some interesting rock formations but doesn't have the long
horizons that Monument does.  Monument Valley is about 30 miles south of here.

If you do this route pause at the top of the Dugway and drive off a bit to your
right to Muley Point, which has one of the best panoramic views anywhere.  In
the distance you can see all the main Monument Valley formations plus El
Capitan near Kayenta.
Andi Ferguson - 19 Aug 2004 12:33 GMT
[snip]
> I'm really interested in Canyon de Chelly, the various sites between
> Mexican Hat and Blanding, and Mesa Verde. The latter seems too far to
> easily fit in, so I've all but ruled it out. I don't want to be
> driving a ton (unless the drive is drop dead stunningly beautiful).

There are so many great places to hike between Las Vegas and Monument
Valley it's difficult to know what to suggest. The Cedar Mesa area and
the Grand Staircase Escalante have dozens of great places to hike. I'd
suggest buying Hiking the Grand Staircase-Escalante and the Glen
Canyon Region by Ron Adkison. One possibility that fits your short
hike requirement is Mule Canyon, which is a pleasant, easy hike with
several ruins to visit.

You say you've gone to Utah's National Parks but if you happen to have
missed the Needles district of Canyonlands, you should definitely
reconsider.

> Please help with days 1-4:
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> 7) Return hike via Bright Angel trail. probably stay at South Rim
> again? Don't know that I'd be up for driving far after the hike.

If you are mostly used to short hikes, the hike up Bright Angel is
going to be pretty hard on you so don't plan on doing much afterwards
besides collapsing.

> 8) (SATURDAY) Drive back to Vegas. Visit Hoover Dam on the way. gamble
> and drink
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Rodney
Rodney Boles - 20 Aug 2004 03:48 GMT
> There are so many great places to hike between Las Vegas and Monument
> Valley it's difficult to know what to suggest. The Cedar Mesa area and
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> hike requirement is Mule Canyon, which is a pleasant, easy hike with
> several ruins to visit.

I saw this book last time I was there. I'll definitely try to pick it
up, as I like the
series.

> You say you've gone to Utah's National Parks but if you happen to have
> missed the Needles district of Canyonlands, you should definitely
> reconsider.

I didn't get to see the Needles last time. It does sound wonderful.
Until I booked
the Phantom Ranch night, by plan was to just go to Moab and stay a
whole week
with that as a base. I still think I'll do that, just not this time.
(If I could figure out
how to make equivalent money to my engineering job, I'd move to Moab
in a
heartbeat.).

> > 6) Hike to Phantom Ranch via South Kaibab. overnight at PR
> > 7) Return hike via Bright Angel trail. probably stay at South Rim
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> going to be pretty hard on you so don't plan on doing much afterwards
> besides collapsing.

I've done plenty of long hikes. My only concern is my knees (and
blisters).
Was having problems with them a few years ago, but started doing yoga
and
working out more. Haven't had problems since. I think I'll start doing
yoga
again from now till the trip.
Andi Ferguson - 20 Aug 2004 13:11 GMT
[snip]

> > You say you've gone to Utah's National Parks but if you happen to have
> > missed the Needles district of Canyonlands, you should definitely
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> in a
> heartbeat.).

The Needles district is much closer to Blanding and Monticello than it
is to Moab (Island in the Sky is the district that is near Moab) --
that's why I mentioned it for this trip since you mentioned looking
for hikes in the Blanding area.

[snip]
> I've done plenty of long hikes. My only concern is my knees (and
> blisters).
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> yoga
> again from now till the trip.

The knees probably won't bother you that much going up on Bright Angel
but they definitely get beat up going down the South Kaibab. Actually,
Bright Angel trail isn't that bad until near the end when it gets
quite steep.
Doug McDonald - 20 Aug 2004 14:52 GMT
> [snip]
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>>
>>I didn't get to see the Needles last time. It does sound wonderful.

It is ... I was there about three weeks ago. It was hot but
thankfully there is plenty of shade to rest in while hiking.
Interestingly, as far as I could tell I was the only person hiking
there before 3 pm, since mine were the only tire tracks
on the dirt road leading to the trailhead.

I do recommend, however, if possible, go at a cooler time!

Doug McDonald
Paula - 02 Sep 2004 05:17 GMT
rboles@jetstream.com (Rodney Boles) wrote in message
> > > 6) Hike to Phantom Ranch via South Kaibab. overnight at PR
> > > 7) Return hike via Bright Angel trail. probably stay at South Rim
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> yoga
> again from now till the trip.

I would recommend trekking poles to save your knees.  It's an odd
thing - hiking down - camping - then hiking up (since most backpackers
do the exact opposite!).  Your body kind of freaks out using your
muscles backwards!  It's good that you do yoga, but make sure your
cardio is good, too (it will be hot in the canyon at that time of
year).  I did my hike in early November and the weather was chilly at
the Rim but great at the bottom.

Have you reserved your meals at Phantom Ranch, too?  They suck for the
price, but it sure beats hauling the food and cooking equipment on
your hike.

Reserve a room at the Best Western just outside the park for the day
you hike up the Bright Angel.  They have suites with jet tubs.  That's
what my husband and I did and it was AWESOME!  I was good to go the
next day after a relaxing soak in the jet tub!  We camped in the
canyon, so we were also dirty and had an uncomfortable sleep.

You're itinerary sounds great!  I spent a year working in Phoenix and
doing side trips to Northern AZ and didn't do half the stuff you are
doing in one trip.

Have fun!
Paula
Russ Kozerski - 19 Aug 2004 13:52 GMT
Sounds like a fun trip, Rodney. I don't know as much about the area as
others, but I visited for a couple of weeks last summer. I did Canyon de
Chelly and Monument Valley in a day, and was glad to have seen them.

At Canyon de Chelly, there's only one short trail that you can hike
unescorted. You can also take a truck tour of the canyon with a guide, which
could take from a few hours to all day. I drove one of the rim roads, and
stopped at every viewpoint, then did the hike on the White House Trail (2.5
mi. round trip). My whole stay lasted maybe 4 hours. I certainly could have
enjoyed a longer visit, but it gave me a taste of the place and will hold me
over until I can return for an extended visit.

I likewise only spent a few hours at Monument Valley. I don't know about any
hiking trails. But you can see a lot of spectacular scenery on the Valley
Drive. It's a dirt road, a bit less than 20 miles long if I remember
correctly, that loops through the area. It will take you a couple of hours
just to do the drive.

Have a great time!

> I just made a reservation at Phantom Ranch for September 23 (thurs)
> this past weekend. I'm starting to throw together plans for the entire
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
>
> Rodney
Juliana L Holm - 19 Aug 2004 14:00 GMT
In rec.travel.usa-canada Rodney Boles <rboles@jetstream.com> wrote:
> 5) Betatakin hike or Antelope Canyon in morning. Drive to South Rim.
> sunset photos then early bed
> 6) Hike to Phantom Ranch via South Kaibab. overnight at PR
> 7) Return hike via Bright Angel trail. probably stay at South Rim
> again? Don't know that I'd be up for driving far after the hike.

The hike into the canyon (did it in 1999) is not a terrible hike difficulty
or length wise (7 miles in, 9 out with your plan).   But the hike down can
be very hard on the knees; the constant down then followed by constant up.
I think hanging out the extra day is a good idea.  Plus this way you get to see
the canyon from the Rim at sunrise.

Phantom Ranch is a great place.

Julie

> 8) (SATURDAY) Drive back to Vegas. Visit Hoover Dam on the way. gamble
> and drink
> 9) either return home or maybe one more night in Vegas

> Oh, one more thing. I LOVE hiking, but don't want to overdue it before
> Thursday. Some short hikes 2-3 miles are fine most days, but don't
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> getting the "perfect" shot. Maximizing good light will be VERY
> important to me.

> Also, looking for any good tent camping suggestions. Love staying at
> scenic campgrounds (Kodachrome SP in Utah was perfect, for instace).

> MUCH thanks for any advice.

> Rodney

Signature

Julie
**********
Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm

Caveat - 19 Aug 2004 18:59 GMT
<snippage>

>... Was thinking of doing either Antelope Canyon...

It's gotten very commercial (and crowded) there. (Bring lots of
money.) I prefer the Corkscrew section of Antelope to the upper,
shallower Crack section (despite the new staircases in the former).

http://www.americansouthwest.net/slot_canyons/antelope_canyon/

>... or Betatakin...

There is free entrance and camping at the Navajo National Monument.
The short walk to the Betatakin overlook is nice, but if the trail
down has been cleared you can also do a ranger-guided trip to these
ruins. But the best trip, IMO, is to Keet Seel, but it's a vigorous
17-mile dayhike. (Reservations required, but you can camp there.)

http://www.nps.gov/nava/pphtml/activities.html

> ...I'd also really like
>to spend some time exploring 89 West of Page (the Paria/Vermillion
>Cliffs area). I've been to the Utah National Parks, so don't plan on
>doing those again, exept perhaps stopping by the Kolub Canyon area of
>Zion (skipped that last time).

Personally, I have always believed Kolob Canyons to be overrated
compared to the offerings in the main section of Zion.  (My tip: If
you've already done Zion Narrows and Angel's Landing, try a dayhike to
The Subway. Make a next-day reservation at the Zion Visitor's Center
BCO because a permit is now required to go there).

http://www.climb-utah.com/Zion/subway.htm

Paria is a really great area. You can do dayhikes into Wire
Pass/Buckskin (no permit required) or the Wave (IF you can get a
permit--reserve online or be prepared to stand in line at the Paria
Ranger Station). The sections of the upper and lower Paria Canyon that
you can get to on a dayhike aren't that interesting, compared to the
middle section.

https://www.az.blm.gov/paria/
http://azwww.az.blm.gov/asfo/recreate/backpack_trails.htm#coyote
http://climb-utah.com/Escalante/buckskin.htm

>I'm really interested in Canyon de Chelly...

...another place with a free campground within a National Monument.
The best way to see the Canyon de Chelly (and Del Muerto) is with a
Navajo guide (and vehicle, unless you rent a 4WD).

>..., the various sites between Mexican Hat and Blanding...

Take the Moki Dugway (261) route to Natural Bridges (numerous awesome
sights enroute) and good dayhikes there. Grand Gulch is one of my
favorite areas but requires multi-day backpacking to get to the best
stuff. (Stop at the Kane Gulch Ranger Station for info on shorter
dayhikes. Bullet Canyon is tougher than Kane Gulch, but worth it.)

http://www.nps.gov/nabr/hiking.htm

>...and Mesa Verde. The latter seems too far to
>easily fit in, so I've all but ruled it out...

Far, and not all that interesting compared to other areas you'll be
going through. Canyonlands is much more interesting--especially the
Island-in-the-Sky, and the Needles sections. Less crowded, too.

http://www.nps.gov/nava/pphtml/activities.html

And don't forget the dayhike options around Escalante -- Spooky Gulch,
Peekaboo, etc. Plus, Lake Foul is now down about 120' -- so there are
awesome hikes available into slot canyons that have been underwater
for a long time... (Beware of flash floods in all these areas, BTW)

Others here have also offered some good comments. FWIW, I've been
hiking all  these areas for about 50 years, so feel free to ask if you
have more questions about any of the above recommendations.

(But rather than cross-posting, perhaps we should stick to the
alt.rec.hiking group?)

Cheers,

Caveat
cm - 19 Aug 2004 23:33 GMT
Rodney,

If you are in Blanding stop by and see Sumner Patterson at the Purple Sage
Trading Post. He knows the area as well as anyone and can send you in the
right direction.

AZCRAIG

www.azcraig.us

> I just made a reservation at Phantom Ranch for September 23 (thurs)
> this past weekend. I'm starting to throw together plans for the entire
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
>
> Rodney
Hank Sniadoch - 20 Aug 2004 00:07 GMT
Would Sumner know where the movie was filmed ??
> Rodney,
>
[quoted text clipped - 65 lines]
> >
> > Rodney
John McManus - 20 Aug 2004 02:42 GMT
> I'm really interested in Canyon de Chelly, the various sites between
> Mexican Hat and Blanding, and Mesa Verde. The latter seems too far to
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Rodney

I just did a 4 corners trip last month, starting with Canyon de Chelly.  I
did the whole day tour but if I did it again I would do the half day
tour.  9 hours is a long time to be bouncing around in the back of that
truck.  Also, if you are going to eat in Chinle, the restaurant in front
of the Best Western is the best of the 3 in town.
While in Monument Valley, I took one of the guided tours from in front of
the visitor center.  2.5 hours and we went to many places you can't go in
your own vehicle.  I would definitely recommend taking a guided tour at
both MV and Canyon de Chelly.  If your going to be in Mexican Hat then you
should go to Goosenecks State Park.  A very unique and impressive
formation.  I couldn't begin to describe it but it is a must see if you
are in the area.
Finally, Hovenweep National Monument is nearby and some very good ruins
from centuries ago.  I did MV, Goosenecks and Hovenweep in one day and
that was starting from Chinle.

john
Peter D. Tillman - 30 Aug 2004 16:28 GMT
> 4) Need to camp somewhere convenient to Antelope Canyon or Betatakin.

The Navajo NM CG is pleasant enough, & unlikely to be crowded in late
Sept. Alternately, you can camp on the slickrock just outside the park
entrance, which is only really practical if you have a 4x4 & sleep in
your vehicle. But it's free, no neighbors & great views ;-)

Cheers -- Pete Tillman
Santa Fe
Caveat - 30 Aug 2004 19:55 GMT
>> 4) Need to camp somewhere convenient to Antelope Canyon or Betatakin.
>
>The Navajo NM CG is pleasant enough, & unlikely to be crowded in late
>Sept. Alternately, you can camp on the slickrock just outside the park
>entrance, which is only really practical if you have a 4x4 & sleep in
>your vehicle. But it's free, no neighbors & great views ;-)

Excuse me, but  "just outside the park entrance" happens to be on
Navajo Nation land. Camping on Navajo land is not only illegal without
a Navajo permit (and you can't get one to camp there) but is extremely
offensive to the Navajo people upon whose good will we depend to get
access to, and for us to operate, a US National Monument in the middle
of their Nation.

The US Department of the Interior long ago made an agreement (sealed
with a handshake) with the Navajos to protect the Betatakin ruins, to
have access across Navajo land, and to use a small portion of the area
for visitor services. This includes free camping, which was part of
the deal (and why it is free). There is not only a paved campground
with tables, water, and flush toilets there, but also a free overflow
area on a short gravel spur to the north of the main campground. I
have never seen both of these campgrounds full, but if you ever do,
PLEASE don't camp illegally on Navajo land.

Because of past unauthorized intrusions onto Navajo backcountry lands,
they have been increasingly limiting access to non-Navajos. Even
driving on the unpaved roads in that area (e.g. Tsegi Canyon) in now
banned for non-residents. And the magnificent nearby Inscription House
ruins have been closed to all public access because of past offensive
visitor behavior. There are now only a very few areas on the huge
Navajo Nation where outsiders can still get permission to hike or
visit because of these past abuses.

Several years ago the only north access road into Chaco Canyon had to
be closed, and later rerouted, because the local Navajos were so fed
up with outsiders taking unreasonable liberties on their lands that
they started shooting at visitor's cars. These people take their land
and privacy very seriously.

Similar transgressions by outsiders on the Hopi Nation lands more than
30 years ago resulted in the complete closing of several of the
stunning Hopi Mesa villages just to the south. Once visitors realized
their loss, they eventually adjusted their behavior to show more
respect for these people and their lands. I recommended similar
sensitivity to everyone here if they want to continue to have access
to these unique places.

Caveat
Randy Stewart - 31 Aug 2004 03:25 GMT
Having enjoyed the access and hospitality of the Navajo tribe in these years
on many trips, I'll second the comments below.  It is easy for a vistor to
forget that many of the areas we like to visit and photograph are the "back
yards" of the local people, and these people place a strong cultural value
on their privacy. I wonder that they permit the extent of outsider intrusion
which they allow.  They certainly aren't making a fortune on their fees.

If you visit Canyon de Chelly, Monument Valley, Antelope Canyon(s), or the
many other areas not so popularly known, please take the time to review the
tribal access and usage regulations, get the permits if required, and honor
the restrictions.  It's still one of the best and least expensive
experiences you can find.

> >> 4) Need to camp somewhere convenient to Antelope Canyon or Betatakin.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
>
> Caveat
 
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