For myself, if I was going to buy a medium format camera for natural
light only work I would probably go with the biggest image possible, a
6x7.  I have a Mamiya RB and it's too heavy for just cruising around.
I have used Bronica and I find their build quality just a little less
than the other manufacturers.  In my personal opinion I would be
looking at the Pentax 6x7, or if using graduated filters was not a
concern a Mamiya 7.

MF equipment is plentiful on the used market, so you've got lots of choices.
Some you may be able to eliminate based on needs. For example, do you need
interchangeable film magazines? If so, the Pentax line is out. Do you need a
path to digital? Do you need digital now? I went through this excercise
about while ago, and would up with the Pentax 6456 NII. It's a wonderful
field camera, and capagle of producing absolutely top shelf images. The
lenses are excellent, and there's a broad selection. In addition to it's own
lenses, you can, via the use of an adapter, use the Pentax 67 lenses. But I
didn't care about digital, and didn't need  to change film mid-roll. I'd
like the second feature, but can easily live without it, and think it's a
fair trade for smaller size and lighter weight.

Another nice small camera is a Mamiya 7II, which is a 6x7 camera. but the
selection of useable telephotos stops at 150mm, which, for that camera, is
equivilant to a 70mm lens on a 35mm camera.Not good enough. There is a 210mm
lens available, but you can't focus it using the split image rangefinder.
Yes, nearly useless. But the lenses that are available for that camera are
excellent.

And then there's the Hassy 501CM. One of the best ever, with glass to match.
It isn't cheap, and isn't fast, but you can't beat the image quality.

The other cameras you mentioned, the Mamiya 67RZ and Bronica, are just too
damned big and heavy for me. If they're not too big for you, the image
quality from the RZ67 is incredible.

see http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/gindex.html for pros/cons on MF cameras and
hands-on review by pro photographer Danny Gonzalez

see mf/budget.html for budget MF kits, see mf/value.html for "best buys"

for landscapes, it might be worthwhile to look at cameras with movements,
such as 6x9cm http://largeformatphotography.info/roundup2x3.html or even
a 4x5" (rollfilm back option for economy)

see mf/cameras.html (camera models) and mf/index.html (related articles)

you may discover, as I have, that you need multiple cameras to do it all,
e.g., I like a panoramic (veriwide 100) 6x10cm kit for land and cityscapes
but also a short tele to pull out nice scenics (colored tree leaves..)
from a bigger landscape/cityscape, and macro for details (door knobs) etc.

hth bobm

I've had a Pentax 6x7 since 1979 and love it. It is very heavy and a
tripod is a must except for indoor flash (not your issue) and bright
light with fast film. Nevertheless, it takes beautiful pictures which
enlarge to the usual sizes with almost no cropping. If you buy a used
one, be SURE to get it with mirror lockup. Almost all those available
have it and a Pentax 67 or 67II will always have it, but the original
6x7 did not have mirror lock up on the very early models, so keep your
eyes open. Just one warning: it LOOKS like a giant 35mm but it is far
far heavier.

I just bought a Mamiya RZ67 II and it is awesome.  Got an amazing deal
at KEH used.  I used 35mm and with tha Mamiya the image quality is
amazing.  No compromises.

JR

If you don't want anything too fancy and reasonable inexpensive, look around
for a Mamiya 645 or 645 1000s.  I recently acquired an "as is- non working"
645 w/metered prism for $99.  Turned out all it needed was a new battery.
Have run test film through it and all is fine. Even the meter works.
Disadvantages - well a bit heavy, non interchangeable backs, that's if you
consider these things disadvantages.  ( My Leica M2 dosen't have
interchangable backs either :-)  )

Lots's of older 645's around - might have to replace light seals ( $35 +
materials  from authorized facility  here in Canada  - $345 for complete
system overhaul) but certainly worth a look.

Enjoy

Gordon

Having used the Pentax 6X7 for 25+ years let me just say that full
frame composition is well rewarded  in final results with a larger
negative, the "ideal" format, which prints out very closely to 8x10 etc.

Secondly, 120 = 10 shots 220 = 20. Two bodies if you are looking
for some interchangeable backs or switch from B&W to colour
or slide.

Sturdy monopod and tripod recommended.

I used to use a handheld spotmeter but now use my digital
camera in place of it. <OLY C2100UZ>

Terry

I also recommend the Pentax 67 series. I take exception with those
that say you must use a tripod, however. I've used it extensively
for city street photography as well as landscapes in daylight.
Hand holding at speeds of 1/125 or greater yields images without
noticeable camera shake. Slower speeds will require a tripod, but
that's true for any camera.
The latest model with the autoexposure pentaprism is a great addition
for hand held work.

You could get by with an old TLR, like a Mamiya or Rollei, or some of the
better folder cameras, though it depends on what your definition of "too
little" means. You could also get an old Polaroid folder, though if you
want a negative, there is only one B/W film choice.

Weston used quite a bit of what many would now call substandard cameras. I
guess that proves that even if your gear is limited, then there is still a
possibility of creating compelling images.

One issue with the closed back cameras is future digital back capability.
Another is Polaroid back capability, though that might be less an issue.

I have known many professionals with hard working Bronica ETRSi (and older)
cameras. They are mostly plastic, reasonably light, and a little noisy. I
cannot recall seeing anyone using a GS Bronica, and in the 6x7 category, I
recall more Mamiya RB/RZ 67 cameras.

I guess you are buying used to keep costs low. You should be able to get a
later Mamiya RB67 with lens and back for close to used Bronica ETRSi
prices, though the Mamiya might be slightly older. They are large and
heavy, and best on a tripod.

Since you want to do landscape, and are familiar with 35 mm gear, you may
want to investigate the Fuji line of larger rangefinder cameras. The 645
versions are somewhat too P&S like, though the larger 6x7 and 6x9
rangefinders are quite nice. Other than the G690, all these are fixed lens,
and more wide to normal focal lengths.

The Pentax 67 is fairly large and heavy, despite it looking like a 35 mm
camera in shape. Once again, no removable back, though NPC did make a
Polaroid back for these (still might). Relatively low cost compared to some
other choices, though compare to the RB67.

Rollei 6008 and 6003 are sometimes available at reasonable costs, though
these are square format cameras. It is possible to use the rotating 645
back on the older versions of these models, and there are many lenses to
choose. Rental gear is rare in the US.

You could also look into older Linhof, MPP, Horseman, and some of the
better Graflex cameras. Several of these were rangefinder equipped, and had
limited movements. Used prices are sometimes reasonable. Roll film backs
are also available used, and sometimes sold with the cameras. Slightly
heavy, mostly tripod cameras, though the Linhof with hand grip is
reasonable to hand hold.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
<http://www.allgstudio.com

Hi

I went through a similar process recently. I ended up getting a 1979
Hasselblad 500 c/m with 80mm standard lens (manual everything) on EBay. I
was agreeably surprised at
the price, which was about what I had planned to spend on a Bronica or
Mamiya. No doubt the Bronica or Mamiya that I might have bought would have
been a fair bit newer, but the results from the Hasselblad have been
excellent. For a moderate outlay I now have a 50mm lens and a 645 back as
well.

Using a completely manual MF camera of any sort is quite a discipline
compared with my 35mm kit (EOS3 and IS lenses) but it's very satisfying.

You can not find anything in the MF cameras that can beat the Hassie and
 the overwhelming number of complimentary lenses and accessories made
only for it.

Vessen Magee, Jr.
Retired Pro, 45 years in the business

((snip)

I've had a pretty complete Bronica GS-1 system for about 8 years now, and it
has served me very well indeed  I bought everything used.  I ended up with
the GS-1 because I wanted a relatively small camera for field use that
allowed interchangeable backs.  The GS-1 is the same weight as the Pentax
6x7 (fixed back), and considerably smaller than the RB/RZ models.  All are
fine cameras, though.  Pricing for used MF gear seems to be heading lower, I
supposed due to lack of demand and more equipment on the market due to pros
switching to digital.

Rick R.

Nobody has yet mentioned the dear old Mamiya C*** tlrs. Basic, easy to
use, cheap, light (for MF anyway), superb image quality with the
lenses I have, reasonable range of lenses up to 250mm. Versatile - Go
from close up flower portrait to landscape without changing lenses. I
have an RB67 but if I was forced to get rid of one I would keep the
C330F.

Rod

Rod

Weed my email address to reply
http://website.lineone.net/~rodcraddock/index.html