Borders / framing

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Peter Chant - 30 May 2008 02:32 GMT

Chaps,

what are your thoughts? What do you do?

I want to print out a picture or two to put in a clip frame, however, image
is square (MF group!) and I fancy keeping it square. The frame I am using
is not. Therefore in software (not too good at traditional printing) I
produced a thin white ink line around the image followed by a dark red
border (to match a rug in the room but that is not important for this
discussion).

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gallery/april-2008/ - top two images

I have produced a border this way on another print previously and a friend
made a comment "it looks like you bought a poster / print in a shop".
While flattering in one way - it must be at least slightly competent
technically, I see what he means - can't really put it in words - perhaps
the title I added does it.

Any other ideas? What do you do? I definitely do not want to do anything
tacky looking - found some horrendous stuff with a Google search. Cheesy
beveled effects or images of gilt picture frames! A lot of people seem to
like the brush stroke or large format polaroid torn away edge type
effects - I think I'll stay away for that reason.

Did wonder about just printing the image as a square across the full frame
and just leaving one thick border at the bottom.

Thoughts?

Quick additional question - which of the two images do you prefer, the
original or the crop (top image). I'm wavering between the two.

Thanks,

Pete

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krishnananda - 30 May 2008 04:10 GMT

> Chaps,
>
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>
> Pete

Fraid I can't help you directly as the above link is broken. In medium
format I shoot 6x6, 6x7, 6x9, and 6x12. Traditional black and white.

For square shots I generally use a vertical format paper, such as
11"x14". I either center the image on the page with wide borders top and
bottom and skinny borders left and right. I always use a ground-out
negative carrier (or a glass holder) and print with a thin black border
around the image, sometimes including the edge markings of the negative.

How this translates to digital printing I have no idea, but if you fix
the link I'd be glad to look at your stuff.

--k

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Peter Chant - 30 May 2008 08:41 GMT

> For square shots I generally use a vertical format paper, such as
> 11"x14". I either center the image on the page with wide borders top and
> bottom and skinny borders left and right. I always use a ground-out
> negative carrier (or a glass holder) and print with a thin black border
> around the image, sometimes including the edge markings of the negative.

I assumed if printing a square image on rectangular paper a vertical format
would look better than horizontal. Don't fancy putting 'fake' edges on
existing prints. Suppose I could see if I could try to devise a neg
carrier so I could scan the edges...

> How this translates to digital printing I have no idea, but if you fix
> the link I'd be glad to look at your stuff.

Cheers. The white ink line I suppose is a straighter version of your thin
black border - I suspect more regular than the edge from your neg carrier.
Don't fancy generating a more uneven border digitally - would seem a bit
dishonest to me.

Perhaps I should just fire up the enlarger. However, I'm not good at
printing and it does not help for colour!

Thanks.

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krishnananda - 30 May 2008 17:11 GMT

> Cheers. The white ink line I suppose is a straighter version of your thin
> black border - I suspect more regular than the edge from your neg carrier.
> Don't fancy generating a more uneven border digitally - would seem a bit
> dishonest to me.

These are very nicely done -- I like the red with the black and white. I
think I forgot to mentioned that besides absolute centering there is
optical centering, which you have done very well.

I think the white line adds to the composition. As a digital print I
would think "proving" the print is full-frame by including the black
border would detract from it.

--k

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Ken Hart - 30 May 2008 22:50 GMT

>> Chaps,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>> border (to match a rug in the room but that is not important for this
>> discussion).

snip

> Fraid I can't help you directly as the above link is broken. In medium
> format I shoot 6x6, 6x7, 6x9, and 6x12. Traditional black and white.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> --k

Here's an easy way to optically print thin black borders without dealing
with modifying neg holders....
Assume you are printing 8x8" on 11x14" paper. Take a piece of 11x14 opaque
paper or card stock and cut an 8x8 hole in it (the "mask"). Assuming you
want to black border to be 1/8" thich, cut 1/8" off each side of the cut-out
piece (or 1/4" from two adjacent sides!).
Compose the image in the 8x8 hole, and print with the mask in place. Remove
the negative from the enlarger, put the cutout in the center of the opening
and weight it down (set the grain focuser on it). Expose for about the same
amount of time as the image. Process normally.

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Peter Chant - 30 May 2008 08:28 GMT

> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gallery/april-2008/ - top two images

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/peter.chant/gallery/april-2008/

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Q.G. de Bakker - 30 May 2008 16:07 GMT

Peter Chant asked:

> Chaps,
>
> what are your thoughts? What do you do?

I put square prints in square frames.
;-)

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Peter Chant - 30 May 2008 16:38 GMT

> Peter Chant asked:
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> I put square prints in square frames.
> ;-)

Ah ha - so when I mess up and get vignetting do I need to get round frames?!

:-)

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Q.G. de Bakker - 30 May 2008 23:43 GMT

>> I put square prints in square frames.
>> ;-)
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> :-)

Why, yes!

But don't stock up on them, else you will be forced to mess up more often
than you perhaps might like to.
Though on the other hand... being forced to mess up - so you can fill those
frames - is a good excuse for messing up.

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Noons - 31 May 2008 12:17 GMT

Q.G. de Bakker wrote,on my timestamp of 31/05/2008 8:43 AM:

>>> I put square prints in square frames.
>>> ;-)
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Though on the other hand... being forced to mess up - so you can fill those
> frames - is a good excuse for messing up.

what a mess!

<g,d&r>

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Ken Hart - 30 May 2008 22:34 GMT

> Chaps,
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> like the brush stroke or large format polaroid torn away edge type
> effects - I think I'll stay away for that reason.

There are certain rules in mounting and framing that absolutely, positively
must never be broken-- unless you think the picture looks better when you
do!

Generally, the top and side margins should be equal and the bottom margin
wider. Putting a white line around the image 'contains' the eye on the
image. Using a border/matte that coordinates with another part of the room
ties the picture to the room, however there should be a contrasting border
(frame) around that matte to 'anchor' the image.
If the picture had been a lighter/brighter image, then a dark line around it
instead of a white line would be more effective. In this case the white line
is best.
I'm not sure about the line under the name; I think that may be approaching
tacky-- my opinion only, if you like it, ignore.

> Did wonder about just printing the image as a square across the full frame
> and just leaving one thick border at the bottom.

IMHO, that would look like you made a mistake. By putting the border all
around, it looks like that's how it's supposed to be. You could have gone
with a narrower border, but I think it needs to be on all four sides.
You could have centered it both vertically and horizontally, but it
definately needs the border on all four sides.

> Thoughts?

If the image were strong as a horizontal, you could have turned the frame
sideways and centered the image in both directions, but this image is
definately a vertical. Or if the image were horizontal (but square) and
strong on one side, you could frame it horizontally with the border equal on
top, bottom, and stronger side and wide on the weak side.

> Quick additional question - which of the two images do you prefer, the
> original or the crop (top image). I'm wavering between the two.

I prefer the second one, but not because of the crop-- because it is a
little lighter and the tree stands out from the sky a bit better, especially
to the left.

> Thanks,
>
> Pete

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