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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Medium format / August 2004

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Electronic Shutters - A Whole Bunch Better?

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Dan Quinn - 24 Aug 2004 23:06 GMT
I'm a 99% convert to electronic camera shutters. Should I be?
Is one brand of electronics as good as the next?
Do they remain accurate? How durable are they?           Dan
Bob Monaghan - 24 Aug 2004 23:37 GMT
yes and maybe? ;-) I like electronic shutters for their accuracy, and for
the often stepless variation they permit when shooting slides etc.

the bad news is that in medium format (this NG), older electronic shutters
such as in my Bronica EC used electronic devices which are no longer
readily available as replacements. So with a mechanical shutter, the usual
problems are just cleaning, maybe a weak spring or whatever, all of which
can be replaced. But the electronic chips or parts may be lots harder to
find, esp. for proprietary chips used in some electronic shutter designs.

A related example is my Nikon FE, which uses a flexible circuit strip with
components no longer available from Nikon (no surprise, older camera etc.)
the only source now is another donor body Nikon FE (which is why I have
bought some with dented prisms and other faults, but working flex
circuits. It is cheaper to buy a used FE now, than to buy the flex circuit
from repair shops that have any, and lots cheaper vs. cost of installing
and repairing your camera.

so they may be great while they work, but problematic when they get older
and you need to replace proprietary or other hard to find parts...

hth bobm
Signature

***********************************************************************
* Robert Monaghan POB 752182 Southern Methodist Univ. Dallas Tx 75275 *
********************Standard Disclaimers Apply*************************

Vincent Becker - 24 Aug 2004 23:43 GMT
> so they may be great while they work, but problematic when they get older
> and you need to replace proprietary or other hard to find parts...

Even early Leica R4 (which had a very unreliable electronic shutter)
aren't repaired today, while much older mechanical Leica II or III can
still be serviced by a decent repairman.
Signature

Vincent Becker
Photographies et appareils anciens - Photography and classic cameras
<URL:http://www.lumieresenboite.com

Stacey - 25 Aug 2004 07:10 GMT
> I'm a 99% convert to electronic camera shutters. Should I be?
> Is one brand of electronics as good as the next?
> Do they remain accurate? How durable are they?          

I've never had any problems with the electronic shutter cameras I own. The
mechanics are really simple and, especially the manual speed type, is
simple electronically as well.

Signature


 Stacey

Winfried Buechsenschuetz - 25 Aug 2004 12:38 GMT
> I've never had any problems with the electronic shutter cameras I own. The
> mechanics are really simple and, especially the manual speed type, is
> simple electronically as well.

It depends... a circuitry with analog shutter speed control can be
built very simply. I once tried to repair a Paratronic shutter on an
Agfa rangefinder camera and found an IC inside that obviously once was
available for the public, too - at least I found some data on it in a
public library. They did not need more than four or five resistors, a
variable resistor and a capacitor (plus a solenoid, of course) for the
control circuitry.

However, most shutter control circuits are built with custom-made ICs.
You can see this evolution on the Yashica Electro rangefinder cameras.
The very early models had a circuit composed from three or four
transistors and some resistors. In later years they first switched to
a moulded module which could be swapped as a whole only, and the last
models had their custom-made IC - and therefore will be unrepairable
if this guy fails.

Another issue are electro-mechanical problems, like wear and/or
corrosion on switch contacts, resistor tracks etc. The more of these
you put into a camera, probably the less reliable it will be (even
many of the early Yashica Electros suffer from slide switch problems).

There are quite a few mechanical cameras out there which have worked
for decades. I once checked the shutter speeds of a 1931 Zeiss Ikonta,
and they were dead on after a little cleaning of the innards. I have
severe doubts that any of todays electronic cameras will still work in
70+ years from now.

Winfried
jjs - 25 Aug 2004 16:01 GMT
> I'm a 99% convert to electronic camera shutters. Should I be?

Sure, if you have a backup and can be sure it can be repaired and you don't
wander in the Arctic cold with it. :)

The Sinar LF electronic shutter is awesome, repairable, great for studio
work... but that's LF.
Bob Salomon - 25 Aug 2004 16:19 GMT
> Sure, if you have a backup and can be sure it can be repaired and you don't
> wander in the Arctic cold with it. :)

Too bad you didn't tell that to Neelon Crawford who did Antartica with
the Rollei 6008 or to the RAF who was flying the 6006 in an unheated pod
under the wing of a Jaguar fighter for air to air work at -20C.

Depends on the shutter and how you protect the power supply to keep it
warm.

Since the Rollei shutter is magnetic and has no lubrication it was no
problem to keep it running.

But if you don't put the proper lubrication in a mechanical system you
can have all kinds of problems in extreme cold or heat.

When you talk about electronic shutters you can mean several different
things. For instance some cameras have a mechanical shutter that is
electronically timed. Others, like the Rollei Linear Motor Shutter for
medium and large format cameras have only 7 or 8 moving parts, no
springs, + the blades and are electronically driven and controlled and
timed.

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jjs - 25 Aug 2004 16:39 GMT
>> Sure, if you have a backup and can be sure it can be repaired and you
>> don't
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> the Rollei 6008 or to the RAF who was flying the 6006 in an unheated pod
> under the wing of a Jaguar fighter for air to air work at -20C.

Too bad your personal style is still so humorless. Let's not go there again,
Mister "Linhof will mail a catalog to anyone but I won't post the address on
the network." (While HP Marketing maintains a crappy web presence).

Okay, back to the issue. Quick question, please. Was Crawford's battery pack
a factory stock unit?

> But if you don't put the proper lubrication in a mechanical system you
> can have all kinds of problems in extreme cold or heat.

Was Crawford's camera specially lubed or are Rollei 6008's all lubed for
Arctic conditions?
Bob Salomon - 25 Aug 2004 17:06 GMT
> a factory stock unit?

Yes, bought from Ken Hansen.

> > But if you don't put the proper lubrication in a mechanical system you
> > can have all kinds of problems in extreme cold or heat.
>
> Was Crawford's camera specially lubed or are Rollei 6008's all lubed for
> Arctic conditions?

You would have to ask Neelon what, if anything, was done to the
lubrication on his equipment.

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Bob Salomon - 25 Aug 2004 17:10 GMT
> Too bad your personal style is still so humorless. Let's not go there again,
> Mister "Linhof will mail a catalog to anyone but I won't post the address on
> the network." (While HP Marketing maintains a crappy web presence).

Isn't this a bit OT and of no interest in a medium format group?

if you have suggestions for the Linhof web site simply pass them on to
the factory via their web site, www.Linhof.de. Their contact information
can be found at http://www.linhof.de/english/index.html

If you have comments on our web site www.hpmarketingcorp.com you might
send us specific suggestions rather then a shotgun message approach. If
you want online brochures Linhof simply has not posted them. But mailed
ones are free.

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jjs - 25 Aug 2004 19:04 GMT
>> Too bad your personal style is still so humorless. Let's not go there
>> again,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Isn't this a bit OT and of no interest in a medium format group?

Yes, I guess it is.
Richard Fateman - 25 Aug 2004 16:48 GMT
I think that people assume that their mechanical
shutter speeds are (a) accurate and (b) repeatable.
If you actually measure (electronically) the speed of
your shutters you may find substantial variations.
In my experience, electronic shutters are far more
accurate and repeatable.

Acceptable variation (after adjustment!) in
mechanical shutter speeds may be 15%-30%.  (maybe someone
has standards on this?), if you actually care about your
exposure that much, you may want to think about using
electronic shutters.

Anyway, if you care, there is an article about testing
here.. http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/shutterspeed.html

(Also includes discussion on leaf shutters' opening-time
and f/stop affecting "actual" speed versus "effective"
speed. It takes finite time to open the shutter fully,
especially if f/stop is wide.)

RJF
Dan Quinn - 25 Aug 2004 23:57 GMT
> I think that people assume that their mechanical
> shutter speeds are (a) accurate and (b) repeatable.
> If you actually measure (electronically) the speed of
> your shutters you may find substantial variations.
> In my experience, electronic shutters are far more
> accurate and repeatable.

 I've looked at a few time tests of the mechanical type over the
years and have not been impressed. I'd guess their repeatability
scores are higher than their accuracy scores.

> Acceptable variation (after adjustment!) in
> mechanical shutter speeds may be 15%-30%.  (maybe someone
> has standards on this?), if you actually care about your
> exposure that much, you may want to think about using
> electronic shutters.

 "Acceptable variation ... may be 15%-30%."   How ever will
I Zone test my used RB67? I'll take a look at that testing
link.

> Anyway, if you care, there is an article about testing
> here.. http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/shutterspeed.html
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> speed. It takes finite time to open the shutter fully,
> especially if f/stop is wide.)

 That needed mentioning; "...and f/stop affecting..."  I use
a Tobias Transmission densitometer. Using my method when testing
for nine zones I overlap at zone five with a change in f/stop.
I've detected no change while using my ETRSi; same density
zone five to zone five. Exposure times are no more than
1/4 and no less than 1/125 seconds.                          Dan
john - 26 Aug 2004 01:44 GMT
>I think that people assume that their mechanical
> shutter speeds are (a) accurate and (b) repeatable.

"T" is perfectly reliable.
Jeremy - 25 Aug 2004 18:45 GMT
> I'm a 99% convert to electronic camera shutters. Should I be?
> Is one brand of electronics as good as the next?
> Do they remain accurate? How durable are they?           Dan

With today's emulsions, which typically are more forgiving than those of the
past, might the question of pinpoint shutter accuracy be less important than
before?

If you are planning to use your equipment for many years, rather than
trading in after just a few years, you might have better access to repairs
if you stick with a manual shutter.  Unless you require extreme precision,
the electronic shutter approach may be unimportant.

Lots of fine photographs were taken on cameras with mechanical shutters . .
.
jjs - 25 Aug 2004 19:04 GMT
>> I'm a 99% convert to electronic camera shutters. Should I be?
>> Is one brand of electronics as good as the next?
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> than
> before?

:) Color transparency exposures are still critical.
Q.G. de Bakker - 25 Aug 2004 19:15 GMT
> > With today's emulsions, which typically are more forgiving than those of
> > the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> :) Color transparency exposures are still critical.

Which is why fewer and fewer people are using transparancy film.
Which in turn means that the answer to"With today's emulsions [etc.]" could
well be affirmative.
john - 26 Aug 2004 01:47 GMT
>> :) Color transparency exposures are still critical.
>
> Which is why fewer and fewer people are using transparancy film.

Unfortunately, art show coordinators, distributors and good graduate program
portfolios still require transparencies.

Just last Friday I had to document a large show in 6x6 transparencies - with
their electronic flashes - and my flash meter broke. :) Bracket, bracket -
worked out great. At $100 a slide, film is cheap.
Q.G. de Bakker - 26 Aug 2004 18:40 GMT
> [...] At $100 a slide, film is cheap.

:-)
Jeremy - 25 Aug 2004 19:18 GMT
> :) Color transparency exposures are still critical.

Yep!  I agree.

I was merely suggesting that, for many or most users that are shooting
negative film, the older mechanical shutters may be much better tolerated by
today's film, and thus are not as much of a compromise as they were
previously.
Bob Salomon - 25 Aug 2004 19:15 GMT
> > I'm a 99% convert to electronic camera shutters. Should I be?
> > Is one brand of electronics as good as the next?
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Lots of fine photographs were taken on cameras with mechanical shutters . .
> .

Jeremy,

I will give you one practical comparison example.

There was a company that made cameras to photographic traffic
intersections for cars that went too fast or disregarded red lights or
RR signals.

They made their own camera and back and originally used Hasselblad 150mm
Sonnar lenses. However they needed a true shutter speed of 1/500 so they
had to add more tension to the springs in the shutter so they could
actually achieve 1/500. When they did this the average number of
exposures they could get out of a lens with the Prontor Hasselblad
shutter was 150 shots.
Of course the camera might have to take that many shots per day so this
was not acceptable. The lens had to have a leaf shutter as each shot was
exposed with a high output flash unit since no one new what ambient
lighting would be like at the time of each exposure.

They then started using Rollei 150mm Sonnar lenses (same 150mm Sonnar
lens) but with the Rollei PQS high speed shutter. The average number of
exposures was well in excess of 150,000 between downtimes shooting at
speeds of 1/500 and higher. They even got this number of exposures out
of cameras that ran in the desert areas of Australia as well as those in
the US.

The repeatability, reliability and control of this type of shutter is
simply not achievable with a mechanical shutter. The shutters they used
has shutter speeds in 1/3rd steps from 30 seconds to 1/1000 with full
flash synch at all speeds (it is a leaf shutter) and apertures in 1/3rd
stops as well. The view camera version of this shutter has aperture
control in 1/10th stop intervals. So do some other electronic view
camera shutters.

As for repairs, Zeiss has already discontinued shutter manufacture at
Prontor Werke so the Compur and Prontor shutters have not been made for
several years now. As parts run out the possibility for repairs with new
parts will become impossible. So only scavanged parts will be available
at some future time. Old Copal shutters don't use all the same parts as
current Copal shutters, Seiko shutters have not been made in years.

All of these shutters, mechanical and electronic will become
unrepairable to some extent - depending on parts and the availability of
people with the know how and experience to repair them in the future.

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Mike - 25 Aug 2004 20:01 GMT
> In article <if4Xc.3649$Y%3.339@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
>  As for repairs, Zeiss has already discontinued shutter manufacture at
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> unrepairable to some extent - depending on parts and the availability of
> people with the know how and experience to repair them in the future.

As a repair tech parts were and are not available to me for any of the
shutters used in Bronica lenses.  The only option if a part has failed is to
replace the entire shutter which is the only option available for many older
mechanical shutters.  The down side to all of this is the cost of the
replacement shutter, upwards of $300.00.
Mike
Bob Salomon - 25 Aug 2004 20:07 GMT
> The only option if a part has failed is to
> replace the entire shutter which is the only option available for many older
> mechanical shutters.  The down side to all of this is the cost of the
> replacement shutter, upwards of $300.00.

Not to mention the lack of shutters from Compur and Prontor and Seiko.

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Gordon Moat - 25 Aug 2004 20:51 GMT
> > The only option if a part has failed is to
> > replace the entire shutter which is the only option available for many older
> > mechanical shutters.  The down side to all of this is the cost of the
> > replacement shutter, upwards of $300.00.
>
> Not to mention the lack of shutters from Compur and Prontor and Seiko.

How does that price compare to the cost of repairing a modern Rollei lens
currently? While 150000 exposures seems impressive, I would imagine some failing
much sooner than that. Thanks for any information.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
<http://www.allgstudio.com
Mike - 25 Aug 2004 21:10 GMT
> > > The only option if a part has failed is to
> > > replace the entire shutter which is the only option available for many older
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Gordon Moat

Gordon I don't service Rollies however I can tell you that with older RB
shutters, I can strip it down to the shutter blades clean all the parts,
reassemble, lube and time it for $110.00.  Where I am stuck is if the
governor or main spring are broken or worn out.  Sometimes I can repair the
governor but there is nothing I can do if the main spring is broken.  There
are plenty of parts available for Mamiya's new shutters.  I can also tell
you that the assembly of the newer 791 and 800 series shutters is more time
consuming than the older shutters.
Mike
Gordon Moat - 26 Aug 2004 21:16 GMT
> > > > The only option if a part has failed is to
> > > > replace the entire shutter which is the only option available for many
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> shutters, I can strip it down to the shutter blades clean all the parts,
> reassemble, lube and time it for $110.00.

Sounds very reasonable.

> Where I am stuck is if the
> governor or main spring are broken or worn out.  Sometimes I can repair the
> governor but there is nothing I can do if the main spring is broken.  There
> are plenty of parts available for Mamiya's new shutters.  I can also tell
> you that the assembly of the newer 791 and 800 series shutters is more time
> consuming than the older shutters.

Quite a good assessment. I have thought of going back to Mamiya RB67 or RZ67
gear, though some bad experiences with unreliable Mamiya 645 gear have kept me
away. I would imagine they are much better now, than ten years ago. The size of
the large Mamiya RB/RZ cameras, and the fact that I do mostly hand held shots,
probably put me off more than anything else. Anyway, thanks for the
information.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
<http://www.allgstudio.com/gallery.html> Updated!
Bob Salomon - 25 Aug 2004 21:22 GMT
> > > The only option if a part has failed is to
> > > replace the entire shutter which is the only option available for many
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> A G Studio
> <http://www.allgstudio.com>

No idea. You would have to ask Rollei service.

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Mike - 25 Aug 2004 21:11 GMT
> > The only option if a part has failed is to
> > replace the entire shutter which is the only option available for many older
> > mechanical shutters.  The down side to all of this is the cost of the
> > replacement shutter, upwards of $300.00.
>
> Not to mention the lack of shutters from Compur and Prontor and Seiko.

True enough Bob.
Dan Quinn - 28 Aug 2004 09:17 GMT
> The only option if a part has failed is to
> replace the entire shutter which is the only option
> available for many older mechanical shutters.

 I suppose I've gotten used to the long lived solid state. I'll
have to take my OM1n out for a test. Bought in the mid 80s it was
working when last used in 1999.
 What about Bronica's electronic line-up; those from the
early 90s and latter? I've an ETRSi.                          Dan
Mike - 28 Aug 2004 16:46 GMT
> > The only option if a part has failed is to
> > replace the entire shutter which is the only option
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>   What about Bronica's electronic line-up; those from the
> early 90s and latter? I've an ETRSi.                          Dan

There are no repair parts available for the shutters in your Bronica lenses.
john - 28 Aug 2004 17:04 GMT
> There are no repair parts available for the shutters in your Bronica
> lenses.

That's a daunting issue for Bonica mavens, isn't it.   I see so much Bronica
hardware going cheap that I wonder if we haven't some false sense of a
bargain. I simply don't know.

Mike, since you have the expert insight on these matters, can you comment on
availability for Hasselblad 500 series bodies, lenses, etc.?
Mike - 28 Aug 2004 18:51 GMT
> > There are no repair parts available for the shutters in your Bronica
> > lenses.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Mike, since you have the expert insight on these matters, can you comment on
> availability for Hasselblad 500 series bodies, lenses, etc.?

It's a daunting issue for many *older* shutters not just Bronica.  Shutter
manufactures will redesign their shutters and cease manufacturing parts for
the older ones. Sooner or later a repair means the shutter will have to be
replaced.
I don't service Hasselblad equipment so I can't comment on availability of
parts for older equipment.  I do know a few people who do service
Hasselblad, I'll ask them.
Q.G. de Bakker - 29 Aug 2004 00:36 GMT
> I don't service Hasselblad equipment so I can't comment on availability of
> parts for older equipment.  I do know a few people who do service
> Hasselblad, I'll ask them.

Service of older equipment is no problem.
The supply of spare parts for the old Synchro-Compur shutters appear to be
at an end. But there are still plenty "donor" shutters from which parts can
be taken.
Older bodies and magazines can be repaired, if need be using parts from
current models.
The only real problem seems to be with the shutter of 2000 (not 200 !)
series cameras, of which the FC and FC/M models appear to be most affected,
the FCW models less so.

Even the 1948 to 1957 models can be serviced (though not en-masse, and not
all repairs are still psosible) by David Knapman in Sweden, former factory
repair instructor.
Mike - 29 Aug 2004 00:53 GMT
> > I don't service Hasselblad equipment so I can't comment on availability of
> > parts for older equipment.  I do know a few people who do service
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> all repairs are still psosible) by David Knapman in Sweden, former factory
> repair instructor.

The problem with donor shutters, is of course replacing broken or worn parts
with used parts and no one can tell how long the used parts will last.   My
point in all of this is that for many shutters *new* parts have not been
available for years.  I work on Mamiya Press and TLR shutters as well as
Rapid Omega and Kowa shutters. For most of these shutters new parts are not
available.
Key parts such as main springs for the older RB shutters are not available
from Mamiya.
Just part of growing older I suppose.
john - 26 Aug 2004 01:49 GMT
> I will give you one practical comparison example.
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> exposures they could get out of a lens with the Prontor Hasselblad
> shutter was 150 shots.

Indeed. I've never found a 1/500th or 1/400th leaf shutter more than a bit
faster than the next speed down, and that one was closer the next down ...
:)

BTW, I did some similar work and we didn't require any high-speed shutter.
Used IR film and IR filtered flash. The flash did all the exposure. Why
didn't they do the same?
Bob Salomon - 26 Aug 2004 09:59 GMT
> Used IR film and IR filtered flash. The flash did all the exposure. Why
> didn't they do the same?

You would have to ask the company that made them and the jurisdiction
that used the images to ticket violators and the courts and Attorneys
that used the images.

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Jim Phelps - 26 Aug 2004 06:45 GMT
> They then started using Rollei 150mm Sonnar lenses (same 150mm Sonnar
> lens) but with the Rollei PQS high speed shutter. The average number of
> exposures was well in excess of 150,000 between downtimes shooting at
> speeds of 1/500 and higher. They even got this number of exposures out
> of cameras that ran in the desert areas of Australia as well as those in
> the US.

FWIW,  The Rollei PQS lens shutter blades are made from carbon fiber and
therefore self lubricating and very temperature stable.  Not sure if anyone
else in MF is using the same material for their [in lens] shutters.  The
Rollei PQ lens shutter blades are not carbon fiber but metal (aluminum?).
john - 26 Aug 2004 08:14 GMT
> FWIW,  The Rollei PQS lens shutter blades are made from carbon fiber and
> therefore self lubricating and very temperature stable.

I don't know of any CF that has self lubricating qualities, but they have
the virtue of not oxidizing like steel does so they don't need lubrication.
OT, but a very successful and durable material for aperture blades before
they had to move fast (auto apertures) was paper. Talk about modern
materials, eh? :)
Winfried Buechsenschuetz - 26 Aug 2004 11:55 GMT
> FWIW,  The Rollei PQS lens shutter blades are made from carbon fiber and
> therefore self lubricating and very temperature stable.  Not sure if anyone
> else in MF is using the same material for their [in lens] shutters.  The
> Rollei PQ lens shutter blades are not carbon fiber but metal (aluminum?).

Usually leaf shutter blades are made from springy steel sheet which is
precisely sanded. Some manufacturers use a special plating process to
incorporate MoS2 (moly) particles in the surface to reduce friction.

Winfried
Q.G. de Bakker - 26 Aug 2004 18:49 GMT
> As for repairs, Zeiss has already discontinued shutter manufacture at
> Prontor Werke so the Compur and Prontor shutters have not been made for
> several years now.

Bob, this is absolute nonsense.
I don't know how you came up with this piffle. Maybe we can guess why?
Let's hope your "advise" is more accurate when you're talking about products
your company is hoping to sell.

"Zeiss" is still making Prontor shutters. Compur shutters were made in the
same factory since the early seventies of the last century.
Bob Salomon - 26 Aug 2004 21:08 GMT
> "Zeiss" is still making Prontor shutters.

Not for view cameras.

They make Prontor Magnetic shutters for industrial uses.

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Mike - 26 Aug 2004 21:39 GMT
> > "Zeiss" is still making Prontor shutters.
>
> Not for view cameras.
>
> They make Prontor Magnetic shutters for industrial uses.

All the new view camera shutters I have seen are Copal not a Compur among
them.
Q.G. de Bakker - 26 Aug 2004 21:48 GMT
> > "Zeiss" is still making Prontor shutters.
>
> Not for view cameras.
>
> They make Prontor Magnetic shutters for industrial uses.

And they still make Prontor mechanical shutters for medium format lenses.
Mike - 26 Aug 2004 21:51 GMT
> > > "Zeiss" is still making Prontor shutters.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> And they still make Prontor mechanical shutters for medium format lenses.

If I may ask, who is using new Prontor shutters?  In all the stores I have
been in ( in the US)  that carry view cameras and lenses all I see are Copal
shutters.  I have a number of view camera lenses come through my shop each
year, for the most part they are mounted to Copal shutters though a few
older lenses are mounted on Compur shutters.
I can't remember the last time I saw a Prontor shutter.
Q.G. de Bakker - 26 Aug 2004 22:28 GMT
> > And they still make Prontor mechanical shutters for medium format lenses.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> older lenses are mounted on Compur shutters.
> I can't remember the last time I saw a Prontor shutter.

Zeiss is still putting mechanical Prontor shutters in the lenses they sell
to Hasselblad.

Remember that Bob was talking about the Hasselblad vs Rollei version of the
150 mm Sonnar?
And that we're still in a MF-group? ;-).
Remember too that Bob's view is extremely biased towards the product range,
past and present, of the company he works for, and that anything he ever
says about products that are not in that range is to be taken with a
shipload of salt.
Mike - 26 Aug 2004 22:55 GMT
> > > And they still make Prontor mechanical shutters for medium format
> lenses.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Zeiss is still putting mechanical Prontor shutters in the lenses they sell
> to Hasselblad.

That explains why I havent seen any new Prontors, I don't service
Hasselblad.

> Remember that Bob was talking about the Hasselblad vs Rollei version of the
> 150 mm Sonnar?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> says about products that are not in that range is to be taken with a
> shipload of salt.
Bob Salomon - 26 Aug 2004 23:04 GMT
> Remember too that Bob's view is extremely biased towards the product range,
> past and present, of the company he works for, and that anything he ever
> says about products that are not in that range is to be taken with a
> shipload of salt.

The only MF we sell is made by Linhof and that is the only MF we have
sold since 1998.

What I stated was simply the truth. Not biased as we have no
association, in any form, with any other MF camera manufacturer.

We do market lenses from Rodenstock, however, and offer all of the
currently available shutters.

Signature

To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.

Q.G. de Bakker - 27 Aug 2004 18:35 GMT
> [...]
> What I stated was simply the truth. [...]

Oh dear...
" Zeiss has already discontinued shutter manufacture at Prontor Werke so the
Compur and Prontor shutters have not been made for several years now." ???
Bob Salomon - 26 Aug 2004 23:07 GMT
> > > > "Zeiss" is still making Prontor shutters.
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> older lenses are mounted on Compur shutters.
> I can't remember the last time I saw a Prontor shutter.

No one for view cameras directly.

There are prototypes of a Prontor Magnetic that could be sold under the
Linhof and under the Schneider name but they may not be marketable yet.
The difference was the controller being offered by each company. Both
version were shown at the 2002 Photokina so we will see what may come of
them next month at Photokina.

Signature

To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.

Bob Salomon - 26 Aug 2004 23:08 GMT
> > > "Zeiss" is still making Prontor shutters.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> And they still make Prontor mechanical shutters for medium format lenses.

Not for lenses for view camera lenses. Some camera manufacturers may be
offering them in lenses for their specific camera.

Signature

To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.

Q.G. de Bakker - 27 Aug 2004 18:39 GMT
> > And they still make Prontor mechanical shutters for medium format lenses.
>
> Not for lenses for view camera lenses. Some camera manufacturers may be
> offering them in lenses for their specific camera.

Yes indeed.
However, those "some manufacturers" include the ones offering the lens you
(!) were talking about.
So how about that "Zeiss has already [etc.]"? Nonsense, right?
 
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