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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Large Format / July 2004

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Arca-swiss Discovery GG and Fresnel arrangement

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metchikabool - 21 Jul 2004 02:28 GMT
Hello, Group

I use a newly-purchased arca-swiss discovery that has the gg mounted
behind the fresnel; in other words, the fresnel is toward the lens.  I
bought this camera slightly used. Perhaps the first owner set it up
this way. Don't know.

A fellow photographer who is considerable more advanced than I am
commented that it seemed like a weird arrangement. He felt that the
fresnel should be behind the gg, not in front. He didn't see how I
could get a valid focus.

Any comments on this arrangement from users with this setup?

many thanks

Jack
Tom - 21 Jul 2004 03:32 GMT
The ground surface needs to be exactly at the film plane. All the other
considerations can be adjusted as the designer chooses. Several cameras are set
up just as yours is. Others are set up differently. However, it needs to be set
up the way that particular camera was designed to be set up (best to check with
the manufacturer on that) or focus will be off.

> Hello, Group
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Jack
Richard Knoppow - 21 Jul 2004 09:04 GMT
> The ground surface needs to be exactly at the film plane. All the other
> considerations can be adjusted as the designer chooses. Several cameras are set
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> >
> > Jack

 An added word. The ideal position is as in the Graflok and
other backs with the fresnel lens on the lens side of the
ground glass with its lenticulated sufface against the
ground surface of the GG. The Graflok is designed for this,
and the Arca may be the same. When adding Fresnel lenses to
cameras designed for plain ground glass the fresnel is used
on the viewer side of the glass with the lenticules facing
the ground glass. The other method reduces internal
reflections and puts the lens close to the light source.
However, the performance is not much different in practice.
The arrangement MUST be correct for the camera as Tom points
out for focus to be accurate.

Signature

---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix.netcom.com

jjs - 21 Jul 2004 17:00 GMT
>   [...] When adding Fresnel lenses to
> cameras designed for plain ground glass the fresnel is used
> on the viewer side of the glass with the lenticules facing
> the ground glass. [...]

Richard, is it then safe to put the fresnel on the viewing side when in
doubt?
Richard Knoppow - 21 Jul 2004 21:41 GMT
> >   [...] When adding Fresnel lenses to
> > cameras designed for plain ground glass the fresnel is used
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Richard, is it then safe to put the fresnel on the viewing side when in
> doubt?

  It depends on the camera design. For instance, Graflok
backs depend on the fresnel for spacing of the ground glass.
The reference surface faces out so that if a ground glass is
put in alone, or is put in closest to the lens it is too
close causing a substantial focusing error. This can not be
corrected by any adjustments because the distance of lens to
ground glass no longer matchs the distance to the film.
  On cameras which were NOT designed for a built-in fresnel
it MUST be placed on the viewing side.
  One can check the coincidence of the ground glass surface
with the film surface on any camera witht a removable back.
It may even be possible to check by removing the lens board
but is more difficult that way. Measure the distance from a
reference surface (it doesn't matter what as long as it is
stable) using a depth micrometer. then insert a film holder
with a sheet of film in it. Measure again, the two
measurements should be identical. If there is a fresnel lens
in place in front of the ground glass the distance to it
should measure a little too short by approximately the
thickness of the fresnel. If it measures the same distance
as the film the ground glass surface will be too far away
and the camera is not designed for this set up.
  In theory the effective thickness of the fresnel will be
its physical thickness devided by the ratio of its index of
refraction to that of air (approximately 1.0). Since most
fresnel lenses are made of rather low index plastic the
physical distance is probably close enough, certainly close
enough to tell you if its in the wrong place.

Signature

---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix.netcom.com

jjs - 21 Jul 2004 22:37 GMT
> [... it's about Fresnel placement...]

Thanks, Richard. My question concerned placement of a fresnel on a camera
that never had one. So, I'll place mine on the film side of the glass, with
the lens expressions against the glass. All I really need in this camera is
a quicker means to frame the image. (Old eyes, you see). I'll remove it to
do critical focusing.
 
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