Photo Forum / Film Photography / Large Format / March 2005
Back in Time
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Gregory Blank - 26 Mar 2005 21:53 GMT I wonder how many people that read this group, would go back in time if they could? To what era and for what purpose? Personally to the late 1800's -1880-1890 when big cameras were really big :-)
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"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918
John Bartley - 27 Mar 2005 00:21 GMT >I wonder how many people that read this group, would >go back in time if they could? To what era and for what >purpose? Personally to the late 1800's -1880-1890 when >big cameras were really big :-) Well, I was born in '58, so I don't remember much before about '62, but I "think" I'd like to live in the early to mid '60's. Fuel was never going to run out. Nobody had you on their database, medical technology was doing pretty good, you could kiss a girl without getting aids, criminals were punished - not rehabilitated, a kid could hitchhike without fear of getting murdered (most of the time) and drivers could pick up a hitchhiker without the same fear, newspapers were about as fast as TV's for getting the news to you, so you didn't live in a "real time" newsworld.
Bottom line - it was slower - maybe less stressfull? - you had to wait for your pictures - there was no digital to provide the "instant gratification" that's demanded today.
Todays generation? - I call them, all ages of them, the "me, first, NOW!" generation. I dropped out of that bunch a long time ago.
cheers
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John Bartley 43 Norway Spruce Street Stittsville, Ontario Canada, K2S1P5
( If you slow down it takes longer - does that apply to life also?)
jjs - 27 Mar 2005 00:55 GMT > Well, I was born in '58, so I don't remember much before about '62, but I > "think" I'd like to live in the early to mid '60's. [...]
> Bottom line - it was slower - maybe less stressfull? Vietnam, the Draft, the Civil Rights conflicts, the death of JFK, riots in Chicago, Detroit, California, political assassinations, yeah, less stressful. Sure.
John Bartley - 27 Mar 2005 03:28 GMT >Vietnam, the Draft, the Civil Rights conflicts, the death of JFK, riots in >Chicago, Detroit, California, political assassinations, yeah, less >stressful. Sure. > About the only thing that I personally remember about the early '60's was watching JFK's funeral on TV. It was in B&W as we didn;t have a colour set then. In fact we didn't have colour for another 15 years after that.
I guess that we could all look at any year that we lived and find a ton of bad things, but I don't think we've made great strides in "quality of life" in the last 40 years. I think we've mostly speeded things up a lot.
cheers
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John Bartley 43 Norway Spruce Street Stittsville, Ontario Canada, K2S1P5
( If you slow down it takes longer - does that apply to life also?)
Jean-David Beyer - 27 Mar 2005 04:45 GMT >> Vietnam, the Draft, the Civil Rights conflicts, the death of JFK, >> riots in Chicago, Detroit, California, political assassinations, yeah, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > of bad things, but I don't think we've made great strides in "quality of > life" in the last 40 years. I think we've mostly speeded things up a lot. Well, as Ansel Adams once said (in a slightly different context) "Why is it that, with so much progress, there is so little improvement?"
 Signature .~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642. /V\ PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A Registered Machine 241939. /( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org ^^-^^ 22:40:00 up 1 day, 12:56, 3 users, load average: 4.09, 4.19, 4.17
jjs - 27 Mar 2005 04:55 GMT > Well, as Ansel Adams once said (in a slightly different context) "Why is > it that, with so much progress, there is so little improvement?" There you go again, injecting on-topic material into an irrelevant thread.
:) jjs - 27 Mar 2005 04:47 GMT >>Vietnam, the Draft, the Civil Rights conflicts, the death of JFK, riots in >>Chicago, Detroit, California, political assassinations, yeah, less >>stressful. Sure.
> About the only thing that I personally remember about the early '60's was > watching JFK's funeral on TV. It was in B&W as we didn;t have a colour set > then. In fact we didn't have colour for another 15 years after that. > > I guess that we could all look at any year that we lived and find a ton of > bad things, Yeah, for your generation the bad things were what, besides Disco? :)
Shelley - 27 Mar 2005 13:31 GMT I'd like to go back about three years, to the days when there were a lot of knowledgeable and helpful people in this group who actually posted questions and answers that dealt with large format photography equipment. Unfortunately they have been driven away by the small handful of people who still regularly post here and who seem to regard this group is their own personal vehicle for whatever kind of irrelvant inanity they choose to post.
> >Vietnam, the Draft, the Civil Rights conflicts, the death of JFK, riots in > >Chicago, Detroit, California, political assassinations, yeah, less [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > cheers John Bartley - 27 Mar 2005 14:15 GMT >I'd like to go back about three years, to the days when there were a lot of >knowledgeable and helpful people in this group who actually posted questions [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >their own personal vehicle for whatever kind of irrelvant inanity they >choose to post. When you took your pills this morning, you got your grumpy pills by mistake and then took too many anal pills to boot :-)
I hear lives are on sale at Walmart, maybe you can afford one now?
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John Bartley 43 Norway Spruce Street Stittsville, Ontario Canada, K2S1P5
( If you slow down it takes longer - does that apply to life also?)
John - 28 Mar 2005 17:57 GMT >I'd like to go back about three years, to the days when there were a lot of >knowledgeable and helpful people in this group who actually posted questions [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >their own personal vehicle for whatever kind of irrelvant inanity they >choose to post. Quite right.
Regards,
John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.puresilver.org
wayne99@fastmail.fm - 30 Mar 2005 03:13 GMT > I'd like to go back about three years, to the days when there were a lot of > knowledgeable and helpful people in this group who actually posted questions > and answers that dealt with large format photography equipment. Hey, I remember those days!
Gregory Blank - 30 Mar 2005 03:27 GMT > > I'd like to go back about three years, to the days when there were a > lot of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Hey, I remember those days! I do too I liked those days, I'll never forget one of the best people who ever welcomed and encouraged me to participate on these forums and the internet. There used to be lots of good people contributing here.
A gentleman by the name of John Rudiak.
Here's a little about him ----R.I.P John-. "A very good guy IMOP".
He died in Taos the very year I went there for the first time,...I never realized that until just now.
John Rudiak received a BS in Chemistry in 1973 and an MFA in Photography from the Rhode Island School of Design in 1977, studying with Harry Callahan and Aaron Siskind.
He then became a faculty member in the Photo Department at RISD where he taught all levels of photography until moving to Taos, NM in 1990. While in Rhode Island he worked as a photochemist for Sprint Systems of Photography developing original formulas and procedures for contemporary and antique photo processes, as well as writing technical literature. He formed Alchemy Printmaking in 1988, producing portfolios for other photographic artists in alternative printmaking media such as platinum and albumen.
In 1993 he was named contributing technical editor and writer for View Camera Magazine, which published two of his articles on platinum printing in 1994. Recent projects produced by Alchemy include the Jazz Portfolio, ten photographs of jazz musicians taken in the 60's and 70's by San Francisco photographer Jim Marshall, and a Landscape Portfolio by photographer Douglas Busch. John worked on two major platinum portfolios for Baron Wolman and Terry Heffernan, and taught antique processes at the University of New Mexico. John also wrote a chapter (Enlarged Negatives) for the textbook "Coming Into Focus". John died in a motorcycle accident in Taos, New Mexico in 2000
 Signature LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918
Gregory Blank - 30 Mar 2005 03:43 GMT > He died in Taos the very year I went there for the first time,...I never
> John died in a motorcycle accident in Taos, New Mexico in 2000 I stand corrected I was there in 1998, my father died in 2000. Oh well.
 Signature LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918
Lloyd Erlick - 27 Mar 2005 19:04 GMT >I wonder how many people that read this group, would >go back in time if they could? To what era and for what >purpose? Personally to the late 1800's -1880-1890 when >big cameras were really big :-) mar2705 from Lloyd Erlick,
I'd be satisfied if I could just look. Here's an invention for someone to work on (I'm sure there's a Nobel Prize in it ...) -- a video camera - maybe even digital! ... - that peers wherever the user wants, any place, any time in the past. So much for privacy, I guess. History might never be the same.
regards, --le
 Signature ________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. voice: 416-686-0326 email: portrait@heylloyd.com net: www.heylloyd.com ________________________________
John - 28 Mar 2005 16:50 GMT >I wonder how many people that read this group, would >go back in time if they could? To what era and for what >purpose? Personally to the late 1800's -1880-1890 when >big cameras were really big :-) 1920's~1930's. I'd like to have worked at Kodak during that timeframe.
Regards,
John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.puresilver.org
John Bartley - 28 Mar 2005 19:15 GMT > 1920's~1930's. I'd like to have worked at Kodak during that >timeframe. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.puresilver.org > I'm not so sure that you would have wanted to "work", unless you could be other than the average blue collar employee. Engineering, business management, the "office" positions might have been ok but....you might however (as per Lloyd Erlick)
>I'd be satisfied if I could just look. I have a feeling that the working conditions on the whole were pretty crummy, especially during the thirties. I wonder what the average worker in a chemical based industry absorbed thru' skin contact or inhaled.
It would however be nice to be a "decades long" spectator and see the photographic processes as they were developed and see the changes in the technology as well as the changes in the manufacturing processes.
cheers
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John Bartley 43 Norway Spruce Street Stittsville, Ontario Canada, K2S1P5
( If you slow down it takes longer - does that apply to life also?)
jjs - 28 Mar 2005 21:23 GMT >> 1920's~1930's. I'd like to have worked at Kodak during that >>timeframe. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I'm not so sure that you would have wanted to "work", unless you could be > other than the average blue collar employee. Kodak was the first company to have employee profit sharing and he went out of his way to be sure his employees were the better paid, and well accomodated.
John Bartley - 28 Mar 2005 22:47 GMT >Kodak was the first company to have employee profit sharing and he went out >of his way to be sure his employees were the better paid, and well >accomodated. I believe that. I've worked for companies where the pay was not just good, but great, where historically the employees were well treated, where good accomodations, medical care etc....were all provided, but where simply because of a lack of "knowledge" not a lack of caring, some groups of employees either dies young, or suffered thru' old age as a result.. It's not always the companies fault but rather a lack of understanding. Twenty five years ago I worked with guys who were my age now (47), who coughed steady from silicosis or couldn't feel anything with their always-cold fingers from capillary damage. Today that doesn't have to happen in civilised workplaces. Imagine what it was like even just 40 years ago, never mind 80 ?
As I said - I'd love to be able to "see" the first negative, the first print, the first radio set, the first TV, but if I could choose to live in a different age, I'd still pick the early sixties. What's it like to be able to walk to your local photo or chemistry store and buy D23 "mixings" right off the shelf? It must be nice. How long is it going to be before we all need to take a course, pass an exam and have a license just to buy those same chemicals?
 Signature regards from ::
John Bartley 43 Norway Spruce Street Stittsville, Ontario Canada, K2S1P5
( If you slow down it takes longer - does that apply to life also?)
jjs - 28 Mar 2005 23:18 GMT > As I said - I'd love to be able to "see" the first negative, the first > print, the first radio set, the first TV, but if I could choose to live in > a different age, I'd still pick the early sixties. What's it like to be > able to walk to your local photo or chemistry store and buy D23 "mixings" > right off the shelf? I see you are Canadian - therein is the difference. I'd really not want to repeat the sixties in the USA.
David Starr - 29 Mar 2005 00:05 GMT >I believe that. I've worked for companies where the pay was not just >good, but great, where historically the employees were well treated, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >have to happen in civilised workplaces. Imagine what it was like even >just 40 years ago, never mind 80 ? I started at GM in Jan, 1965, in the Buick Foundry. You could walk up to a 200 watt light bulb and count the number of turns in the filament without even squinting. It was that dirty. You literally couldn't see 20 feet. Anyone that wore a dust mask was a "sissy". Houses and cars along the dtreet east of the foundry were all rust colored due to the crud coming out of the cupola stacks. When the foundry shut down in 1980, there were emission systems on the cupolas and nothing but steam came out the top. Inside, most areas were quite clean.
When the foundry closed in 1980, the building was converted to a machining plant. We've made all the 245mm torque converters GM uses since then. No sand or coke dust, but I've often wondered if the daust was as bad as all the mist from metal working compounds in the air.
Anyway, I retired Feb 1, and since then my hearing's gotten a bit better, and my sense of smell is improving too. Not that you need either one for photography, but thet're nice to have. :-)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dave Starr, Senior Shop Rat Emeritus: 14,647 days in a GM plant. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
John Bartley - 29 Mar 2005 01:02 GMT >I started at GM in Jan, 1965, in the Buick Foundry. ...snipped... > >Anyway, I retired Feb 1, and since then my hearing's gotten a bit >better, and my sense of smell is improving too. Not that you need >either one for photography, but thet're nice to have. :-) Speaking of photography in workplaces we were NOT permitted cameras in the mines. This photo (this is not LF - I do apologise) was taken by an "exchange" mining engineer from the UK who was at our site during 1979 and 1980
April 1980 - 3750' - 2506 stope - Dome mines
http://www3.sympatico.ca/oldrad/Photo/Digital/2506StopeCrew.jpg
If you weren't management (I wasn't) or didn't have written permission, bringing a camera underground was cause for termination of employment. I would love to be able to take my 4x5 underground and get photos with real detail of the places that I worked. It would be a lot of work. The lighting would ALL be artificial. There is NO natural light at -3750'.
Photos of workplaces are something I'm always interested in. This is an email notice that I rec'd yesterday :
> We had advertised the sale of 40+ glass slides of 1929/35 vintage showing > various tube production processes and other photos at RCA I've sent a message asking if Icould print these before they get sold. I'm assuming that they're glass plates.
cheers
 Signature regards from ::
John Bartley 43 Norway Spruce Street Stittsville, Ontario Canada, K2S1P5
( If you slow down it takes longer - does that apply to life also?)
joe smigiel - 29 Mar 2005 04:20 GMT David,
Was that in Flint? That's where I hail from. I worked for awhile at AC including the Industrial Avenue plant before they shut it down. Only 3 of us on the night shift in the entire plant. You could see where forktrucks had fallen through the floors, etc.
I was thinking about the factory the other day. I'm going to start doing LF wetplate collodion (to get back on topic) and am wondering how one might acquire potassium cyanide for the process in this day? (Probably need some sort of permit that will get you on a well-scrutinized list somewhere.) Back at AC I used to sweep up 50-pound bags of the stuff on the plating department floor that the forktrucks had either dropped or ran over.
Personally, I think I'd fit photographically in 1907. My favorite photos are in Camera Work that year and a lot was changing in the art scene. Imagine what it would be like to be on the scene with the likes of Steichen, Seeley, Steiglitz, White, Picasso, Mattisse, etc.
Joe
>>I believe that. I've worked for companies where the pay was not just >>good, but great, where historically the employees were well treated, [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > Dave Starr, Senior Shop Rat Emeritus: 14,647 days in a GM plant. > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Gregory Blank - 29 Mar 2005 04:57 GMT > David, > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Joe Someone said this is non relevant thread,...anyway :-)
I think you could possibly mean potassium ferricyanide?
Try http://www.artcraftchemicals.com
its $14.00 a pound.
 Signature LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918
Peter Irwin - 29 Mar 2005 05:39 GMT >> David, >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I think you could possibly mean potassium ferricyanide? Potassium Cyanide (or Sodium Cyanide) was often used as fixer in wet plate processing. The advantage over Hypo is speed. Cyanide fixes very quickly and takes only one minute to wash out. Hypo was also in common use, but it takes longer to fix, and the plate must be washed for several minutes. If speed of processing isn't a big concern, then non-toxic fixers are a good idea.
Charles Dodgson (Lewis Caroll) used Hypo (See Hiawatha's Photography), and his wet plate negatives seem to have survived quite well, so it appears the only advantage to cyanide is speed in processing.
Sodium Cyanide is listed at $35/pound at <http://www.jdphotochem.com/>, it is VERY poisonous. It is a very effective and rapid fixer, but I wouldn't want any of it in my darkroom.
Peter.
 Signature pirwin@ktb.net
joe smigiel - 29 Mar 2005 13:35 GMT >>>David, >>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Peter. As I understand it, the action of potassium cyanide is more efficient not only in terms of speed but also in degree. KCN is used for ambrotypes which need a very clear emulsion to be be viewed properly. Hypo is used for the negatives where a bit of base fog is inconsequential, but for the positives KCN is apparently the preferred fixer.
Joe
David Starr - 30 Mar 2005 00:13 GMT >David, > >Was that in Flint? That's where I hail from. I worked for awhile at AC >including the Industrial Avenue plant before they shut it down. Only 3 >of us on the night shift in the entire plant. You could see where >forktrucks had fallen through the floors, etc. Yup. Remember Buick? Everything from Hamilton to Leith is gone - leveled - and the demo guys are slowly working their way North. I worked midnights for several years and took a 35mm in there once. The guy at the lab I took them to said they went nuts trying to balance fluorescent, incandescent, mercury vapor and sodium lighting. :-)
I'd love to take my 4x5 back in there. There'd be some interesting shots of the machinery. The iron pouring in the foundry would have made for some spectacular shots.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dave Starr, Senior Shop Rat Emeritus: 14,647 days in a GM plant. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
jjs - 30 Mar 2005 02:49 GMT When I was a child the smell of coal and the haze of burning it was predominate. It was a heartening smell because it meant we were keeping ourselves warm, and made a ritual of washing our white collared clothes quite often. It was not a good thing to bring to bare the consequences of our efforts to be comfortable. Of course, my impression is local, not global. Many decades later the smell of wood burning had a similar effect, however with a different scent of politics; almost certainly unjustified.
Chris Brown - 29 Mar 2005 12:28 GMT >I wonder how many people that read this group, would >go back in time if they could? To what era and for what >purpose? Personally to the late 1800's -1880-1890 when >big cameras were really big :-) Well, if I were to choose the period in which I could live (not quite the question you aksed, I appreciate), I think it would be a choice between living in Imperial Rome at the height of its powers, provided I had money, or London in around 1880, provided I had money. ;-)
rafe bustin - 29 Mar 2005 13:29 GMT >>I wonder how many people that read this group, would >>go back in time if they could? To what era and for what [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >living in Imperial Rome at the height of its powers, provided I had money, >or London in around 1880, provided I had money. ;-) "Provided you have money" is a big if, and generally makes any time better, including right now. It's (always) good to be king.
rafe b. http://www.terrapinphoto.com
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