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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Film and Labs / March 2005110 negatives
Hi, Having searched all over the newsgroups to no avail, I am asking for advice in the hope that I have chosen the right group. I have many 110 negatives (mostly C41), and I would like to be able to exploit the images found on these negatives. SOLUTION 1: I am thinking buying a digital film scanner like a secondhand Minolta Dimage II, but I have not been able to ascertain whether its negative tray is able to handle 110 negatives. If somebody on this group owns such a film scanner, I would appreciate confirmation of whether it can handle such a format before I invest. SOLUTION 2: I found that GEPE makes 110 slide mounts (Product ref: 6502, 13x17 Pocket-Instamatic Anti-Newton). Simple I thought, I will slide mount the negatives and proceed with a slide scanner. However, I have been told that slide scanners can only cope with glassless mounts, but the GEPE 6502's are glass mounts. Is it really true that slide scanners cannot cope with glass anti-Newton mounts? SOLUTION 3: So if I cannot scan the glass mounted negatives (from SOLUTION 2) with a slide scanner, I could photograph them? So I am thinking of buying a slide copier attachment for a camera (digital or analogue) so that I can capture these now GEPE mounted 110 negatives with a digital or analogue camera. I found such equipment at: http://shop.store.yahoo.com/specialtyphotographic/ SOLUTION 3a - digital camera: I could use a digital camera to capture these negatives and away I go... SOLUTION 3b - analogue camera: Then I wondered what would happen if I used a slide copying attachment with my SLR to copy these negatives onto a 35mm slide film (like FUJI ASTIA) giving me E6 negatives? Logically, an E6 slide film should give a copy of the negative (complete with orange mask because that is what it 'sees') of the original 110 negative. This solution would give me enlarged 35mm negtives from the 110 negative originals. Would this work? Or am I missing something? Thanking you all in advance for your help, A >Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >such a film scanner, I would appreciate confirmation of whether it can >handle such a format before I invest. Any film scanner that does 35mm film can scan 110 film. You just have to make a mask that'll work in the 35mm film strip holder. Before I replaced my Canon FS2710, I just made a mask that blocked the area of the holder that the film didn't cover. I now use a Minolta Scan Multi with the MF glass carrier with a proper mask. >SOLUTION 2: >I found that GEPE makes 110 slide mounts (Product ref: 6502, 13x17 [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >GEPE 6502's are glass mounts. Is it really true that slide scanners >cannot cope with glass anti-Newton mounts? It shouldn't affect it, since some film scanners can use a glass carrier to hold the film to scan it. Only problem is that you have four additional surfaces to keep clean. >SOLUTION 3: >So if I cannot scan the glass mounted negatives (from SOLUTION 2) with [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >Thanking you all in advance for your help, A > >Hi, > > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > the holder that the film didn't cover. I now use a Minolta Scan > Multi with the MF glass carrier with a proper mask. Yes, I had thought about making a making a mask if the glass slide mounts were going to prove too problematic for a scanner. > >SOLUTION 2: > >I found that GEPE makes 110 slide mounts (Product ref: 6502, 13x17 [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > carrier to hold the film to scan it. Only problem is that you have > four additional surfaces to keep clean. That is good news that most scanners can accept glass slide mounts. The only scanner manual I have seen is for one of the Minolta Dimage Scanners, and it specifically mentioned that glass mounts were not recommended. Minolta's instructions made me wonder whether this was a general thing with scanners and glass lide mounts. > >SOLUTION 3: > >So if I cannot scan the glass mounted negatives (from SOLUTION 2) with [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > -- > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > Thanking you all in advance for your help, A I assume your goal is to end up with prints. Why not just put them in an enlarger and print them cenventionally? Depending on what type of enlarger negative carrier you have, you should be able to make up some sort of mask for the negs form card stock or mount board. Ken Hart My goal is art. Since photography is a hobby where I like exploring different ways of producing output, I just like trying things out. I have access to a darkroom with a suitable enlarger, and even the minilab across from town will do reprints from 110, so there's no real problem getting prints. I am simply interested in exploiting these old negative images in various ways: decorative slide backdrops for family reunions, funky retro-family Christmas cards, you name it. These old images will never be good enough to give stunning results from a purely technical standpoint, but their real value will be found in using their content appropriately. From an efficiency standpoint, I would have to be mad to try undertaking solution 3b outlined in my original post, but who knows, it may give some really wierd and interesting results, or, it may be a complete dull mess, but I will never know unless I try. > SOLUTION 1: > I am thinking buying a digital film scanner like a secondhand > Minolta Dimage II, but I have not been able to ascertain whether > its negative tray is able to handle 110 negatives. If somebody on > this group owns such a film scanner, I would appreciate > confirmation of whether it can handle such a format before I invest. The only film scanner I've been able to find that has a 16mm film holder available as an accessory is the Nikon Coolscan 9000. It's an expensive, high-end scanner. I'm told that its predecessor, the Nikon Coolscan 8000, also uses the same 16mm film holder. With any other scanner you'd have to improvise a mask, cut from dark paper or plastic, that fits into a 35mm negative holder. To get decent results from 110 negatives you need a scanner with at least 4000ppi resolution. > SOLUTION 2: > I found that GEPE makes 110 slide mounts (Product ref: 6502, 13x17 [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > mounts, but the GEPE 6502's are glass mounts. Is it really true > that slide scanners cannot cope with glass anti-Newton mounts? A glass mount might confuse a scanner's autofocus system. You'd lose some sharpness because it's focusing on the glass rather than the negative. I also don't know whether or how well infrared cleaning works with glass mounts. You might also have problems with bundled scanner software that can't accept negatives in slide mounts (in the scanner's slide holder). In that case, you can buy Vuescan, a third-party scanning application that is much more flexible. You might also want Vuescan because of its ability to restore color from negatives that are certain to be significantly faded, and to reduce the significant grain in the negatives. > Then I wondered what would happen if I used a slide copying > attachment with my SLR to copy these negatives onto a 35mm slide [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > This solution would give me enlarged 35mm negtives from the 110 > negative originals. Would this work? Or am I missing something? The resulting "negatives" would have a lot more contrast than the originals, as well as variations due to exposure and whatever distortion of color balance accrues from the way the slide film renders colors. If I were to try this approach (not that I would), I would suggest a "living fossil" Ektachrome film, such as Ektachrome 100 (I think it's called EPN) or Ektachrome 64 (EPR, I think). These films predate the current trend toward high saturation, and are supposed to render colors "naturally." Regardless, I don't think the quality of the resulting scans will be very good. You might want to have a look at this page on my Web site, http://www.tedsimages.com/text/scan110.htm Although it mostly discusses approaches to scanning 110-format Kodachrome slides (which is what almost all my 110 collection consists of), I do include some discussion of negative scanning that you might find helpful. Ted --- Non-spam e-mail: usenet{AT}tedsimages{dot}com Visit my Virtual Light Table: http://www.tedsimages.com Travel, scenic, and fine art photography I had already discovered your scan110.htm webpage from another post, and I found the information given quite useful. Have you ever tried mounting 110 negatives in GEPE glass mounts and then photographing them with a good digital camera equipped with a slide copying attachment? Because, as I mentioned in my original post, it is feasible to buy a slide copying adaptor for a Nikon Coolpix camera for example: http://shop.store.yahoo.com/specialtyphotographic/ I cannot remember the exact dimensions of the image area of a 110 negative, but let's assume it is 13mm x 17mm. If this is the case then resulting scan with a 2400dpi scanner would give the following image resolution in megapixels: Image area: 13mm x 17mm = 0.512" x 0.669" Megapixels = ( 0.512 inches x 2400 dots / inch ) x ( 0.669 inches x 2400 dots / inch ) = 1229 dots x 1605 dots = 1972545 pixels = 1.97 Megapixels So even a relatively inexpensive digital camera could match that resolution. Yes, I know that scanners are better for capturing slides because of the dense blacks etcetera, but aren't C41 negatives less dense (dynamic range already compressed?). AHix: You were misinformed about the gepe slide mounts, and the scanner : Gepe has glassless mounts for 10 x 14, 12 x 17, and 110. The Smartscan 2700 does a great job with submini negs. you just have to make an index card film holder to fit inside the 35mm mount. Enjoy!! > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > Thanking you all in advance for your help, A Al Doyle: Excellent news about the glassless GEPE mounts for 110 format. I'll contact GEPE for the product reference number and re-post. |
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