Not happy with prints from Kodak T400CN

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Phil - 26 May 2004 11:17 GMT

Hi, this is my first post to this group, so Hi everyone!
I've receantly started playing around with black and white, and as I'm
travelling it's quite hard to get to a darkroom or a decent lab so
I've been trying the C41 process films. The first lot I had developed
in a 'pro' lab and was fairly happy with, but just got contact sheets
so I could later on decide which to get printed. The second lot I had
done in a normal lab and had prints done, and they were awful! There
was no tonal variation, everything was either black, white or one
shade of grey. I'm not really expreienced enough to tell from the
negatives how they'd look printed properly.
So basically, anyone got any ideas? I'm hopeing that it's just crap
prints on cheap paper, and if they were done on B&W paper by someone
who knew what they were doing they would look ok. Or maybe it's just
my inexperience at choosing subjects (mainly landscape & buildings)
and composing. Has anyone else had decent prints done from a lab or
does getting them done properly make all the difference?
Thanks in advance,
Phil

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Michael Weinstein - 26 May 2004 15:47 GMT

> Hi, this is my first post to this group, so Hi everyone!
> I've receantly started playing around with black and white, and as I'm
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> does getting them done properly make all the difference?
> Thanks in advance, Phil

My experience with all the C41 B&W films is that unless a pro lab does
the printing on b&w paper the pictures all have a sickly off color
cast. I suppose it's possible to print true black and white on color
paper in the standard lab system, but no one seems to do it.

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Michael Weinstein | "Those who cannot remember the
Nashua, NH | past are condemned to repeat it."
-George Santayana

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Bill Tuthill - 26 May 2004 17:26 GMT

>> I've been trying the C41 process films. The first lot I had developed
>> in a 'pro' lab and was fairly happy with, but just got contact sheets
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> cast. I suppose it's possible to print true black and white on color
> paper in the standard lab system, but no one seems to do it.

T400CN is two generations ago. Kodak introduced Portra 400BW and its
amateur equivalent Select BW+ to make it easier for optical minilabs
to print on normal color paper via orange mask. The orange masks on
T400CN and especially Ilford XP-2+ aren't strong enough to support
regular RA-4 paper without color shift. Kodak recently replaced both
T400CN and 400BW with BW400CN, I believe.

Short-term answer for your remaining rolls of T400CN is to find a
digital minilab (Agfa d-Lab2, Fuji Frontier) and ask them to produce
either sepia or grayscale, whichever you prefer.

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Ron Baird - 26 May 2004 20:46 GMT

Greetings Phil,

If it were I, Phil, I would bring in the contact sheet that you liked and
tell those at the lab you are trying to duplicate to see if they can match
the quality. If they can and at a better price, all well and good. But
make sure you note your expectations as without them you are at the mercy of
lab.

If there is something wrong with the film or the exposures are off, they can
tell you quickly right up front.

Give it a try. Talk to you soon,

Ron Baird
Eastman Kodak Company

> Hi, this is my first post to this group, so Hi everyone!
> I've receantly started playing around with black and white, and as I'm
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Thanks in advance,
> Phil

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Phil - 27 May 2004 11:29 GMT

> Greetings Phil,
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Ron Baird
> Eastman Kodak Company

Thanks everyone! I'm actually flying to New Zealand tommorow so I
can't re-vist the lab which did the prints, but I'm going to find a
'pro' lab in Auckland and ask them to do some work on a couple of the
shots and see what the result is like. And from now on I think I'm
going to start using 'proper' black & white - was thinking of trying
some Ilford Delta 100 and Kodak T-max 100 to start with.
I should be in NZ for several months at least, so while I'll proberly
still have to get the negs developed in a lab, if I find a good one I
hope I can build a relationship with them and get some good results
from them. Well, within my own capabilities that is... ;-)
Thanks for your replys, if anyone is interested on the print results
from a decent lab I'll post here when I get them back.

Phil

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Norman Worth - 27 May 2004 15:25 GMT

I've had a similar experience with XP-2. The routine photofinishing prints
look terrible - muddy. My photofinisher uses black and white paper for
them, too. But when I print them at home, the results are marvelous. There
seems to be nothing wrong with the film or the negative processing. The
routine photofinishing lab just can't print them. This is probably because
they have their machines set incorrectly for this king of film.

> Hi, this is my first post to this group, so Hi everyone!
> I've receantly started playing around with black and white, and as I'm
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Thanks in advance,
> Phil

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