Photo Forum / Film Photography / Film and Labs / July 2003
C-41 Black & White film
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Denny B - 25 Jul 2003 03:37 GMT Is C-41 B&W film truly a B&W film just like the non C-41 or is it inferior. I have never seen a print. In years gone by I used to develop and print my own B&W and as I look at decades old B&W prints they are like the day they were made, no faded colours. I am again taking an interest in B&W prints and only yesterday was told by a fellow that there are C-41 B&W films. Will somebody who uses this film please explain the qualities compared to the non C-41 B&W film. Also do you have the same problems as you do when printed by inexperienced photofinishers that you have with colour negative film.
Thanks in advance Denny B
Comrade - 25 Jul 2003 03:44 GMT > Is C-41 B&W film truly a B&W film just like > the non C-41 or is it inferior. I have never seen > a print. it is a dye based product, subject to far more fading over time
 Signature Comrade see my ROAD TO THE UNITED FRONT http://www.mysolution.ws the aristocracy was the problem in 1776, the aristocracy is the problem today http://www.aclu.org/dissentreport Arisocrats CRUCIFIED Jesus we must close the door by which aristocracy arises
Statements of supposed science, without statistics, are just as much religion, and ONLY statements of faith as any religion, or statement of faith, except they profess the supposed scientist is God, even more dangerous than religion or God. There is no science, without a statement of statistics, AND any statement without statistics, is a conjecture of faith by the professor of such statement, and the "believer". An ethical house cleaning of science and government is in order.
"Does God want goodness? or the choice of goodness? Is the man who chooses bad, somehow better, than the man who has the good forced upon him?" a quote from the movie, A Clockwork Orange, Kubrick
Enlightenment is man's release from his self-incurred tutelage. Tutelage is man's inability to make use of his understanding without direction from another. Self-incurred is this tutelage when its cause lies not in lack of reason but in lack of resolution and courage to use it without direction from another. Sapere aude! "Have courage to use your own reason!" - that is the motto of enlightenment. Kant -- What Is Enlightenment? 1784
"It all sums up into one single purpose, the abolition of dog-eat-dog under which we live... and I traveled the United Front road to get it." -- Roger Baldwin, Co-Founder ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union)
"Timothy Leary's dead, No No No No, He's outside, looking in Timothy Leary's dead, No No No No, He's outside, looking in" MOODY BLUES
"Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."--Matthew 16:6 (religious and political leaders that are hypocrites)
(leaven is yeast, AIR IN BREAD, bullshit, fluff, marketing, snake oil - HYPOCRISY)
"How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."--Matthew 16:11-12
"But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in."--Matthew 23:13
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."--Matthew 23:14
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."--Matthew 23:15
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."--Matthew 23:23
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess."--Matthew 23:25
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness."--Matthew 23:27
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,"--Matthew 23:29
"And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod."--Mark 8:15
"And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,"--Mark 12:38
see my ROAD TO THE UNITED FRONT http://www.mysolution.ws
Mark A - 25 Jul 2003 04:20 GMT > > Is C-41 B&W film truly a B&W film just like > > the non C-41 or is it inferior. I have never seen > > a print. > > it is a dye based product, subject to far more fading over time As long as you store the negatives properly (not in an attic), the stories about fading are exaggerated, However if you want your negatives to remain exactly the same for 50 years, then don't use it (and don't use color film).
C-41 films can be printed at a one-hour lab, but for best results you should scan them or print with traditional B&W wet process. But don't use Kodak Porta B&W for printing with regular B&W processes, that's what T400CN and Ilford XP2 is for. Porta B&W has a deep orange tint and is for printing at a color lab, but the results are mediocre, and worse is that there is no creative control of the printing process.
Comrade - 25 Jul 2003 04:27 GMT > As long as you store the negatives properly (not in an attic), the stories > about fading are exaggerated, However if you want your negatives to remain [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > color lab, but the results are mediocre, and worse is that there is no > creative control of the printing process. the dyes are also designed to be seen by RA4 paper, not B&W paper or a scanner
 Signature Comrade see my ROAD TO THE UNITED FRONT http://www.mysolution.ws the aristocracy was the problem in 1776, the aristocracy is the problem today http://www.aclu.org/dissentreport Arisocrats CRUCIFIED Jesus we must close the door by which aristocracy arises
Statements of supposed science, without statistics, are just as much religion, and ONLY statements of faith as any religion, or statement of faith, except they profess the supposed scientist is God, even more dangerous than religion or God. There is no science, without a statement of statistics, AND any statement without statistics, is a conjecture of faith by the professor of such statement, and the "believer". An ethical house cleaning of science and government is in order.
"Does God want goodness? or the choice of goodness? Is the man who chooses bad, somehow better, than the man who has the good forced upon him?" a quote from the movie, A Clockwork Orange, Kubrick
Enlightenment is man's release from his self-incurred tutelage. Tutelage is man's inability to make use of his understanding without direction from another. Self-incurred is this tutelage when its cause lies not in lack of reason but in lack of resolution and courage to use it without direction from another. Sapere aude! "Have courage to use your own reason!" - that is the motto of enlightenment. Kant -- What Is Enlightenment? 1784
"It all sums up into one single purpose, the abolition of dog-eat-dog under which we live... and I traveled the United Front road to get it." -- Roger Baldwin, Co-Founder ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union)
"Timothy Leary's dead, No No No No, He's outside, looking in Timothy Leary's dead, No No No No, He's outside, looking in" MOODY BLUES
"Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."--Matthew 16:6 (religious and political leaders that are hypocrites)
(leaven is yeast, AIR IN BREAD, bullshit, fluff, marketing, snake oil - HYPOCRISY)
"How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."--Matthew 16:11-12
"But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in."--Matthew 23:13
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."--Matthew 23:14
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."--Matthew 23:15
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."--Matthew 23:23
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess."--Matthew 23:25
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness."--Matthew 23:27
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,"--Matthew 23:29
"And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod."--Mark 8:15
"And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,"--Mark 12:38
see my ROAD TO THE UNITED FRONT http://www.mysolution.ws
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