Photo Forum / Digital Photography / Digital Photo / February 2010
Nicely Posed in the Snowstorm
|
|
Thread rating:  |
M-M - 08 Feb 2010 19:41 GMT I thought this was a lucky catch:
http://www.mhmyers.com/d80/DSC_21427w.jpg
 Signature m-m http://www.mhmyers.com
George Kerby - 08 Feb 2010 19:58 GMT On 2/8/10 1:41 PM, in article nospam.m-m-D19AAC.14415208022010@cpe-76-190-186-198.neo.res.rr.com, "M-M" <nospam.m-m@ny.more> wrote:
> I thought this was a lucky catch: > > http://www.mhmyers.com/d80/DSC_21427w.jpg Would be nice to be able to see it.
M-M - 08 Feb 2010 20:03 GMT > On 2/8/10 1:41 PM, in article > nospam.m-m-D19AAC.14415208022010@cpe-76-190-186-198.neo.res.rr.com, "M-M" [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Would be nice to be able to see it. It's there. What are you getting?
 Signature m-m http://www.mhmyers.com
George Kerby - 08 Feb 2010 21:10 GMT On 2/8/10 2:03 PM, in article nospam.m-m-F736DC.15030908022010@cpe-76-190-186-198.neo.res.rr.com, "M-M" <nospam.m-m@ny.more> wrote:
>> On 2/8/10 1:41 PM, in article >> nospam.m-m-D19AAC.14415208022010@cpe-76-190-186-198.neo.res.rr.com, "M-M" [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > It's there. What are you getting? Now it's fine. The first time, it wanted a name and password for viewing.
Being a native Houstonian, I never realized the soft reflectivity factor of snow, since it is so rare here. I assume that is what is providing the light on the birds' bellies. Very interesting.
M-M - 08 Feb 2010 22:14 GMT > >>> http://www.mhmyers.com/d80/DSC_21427w.jpg
> Being a native Houstonian, I never realized the soft reflectivity factor of > snow, since it is so rare here. I assume that is what is providing the light > on the birds' bellies. Very interesting. That, but a little Photoshop helped also :)
Interesting also that when you take a photo of snow on a sunny day, it comes out blue- reflecting the sky.
 Signature m-m http://www.mhmyers.com
Observant One - 08 Feb 2010 23:00 GMT >> >>> http://www.mhmyers.com/d80/DSC_21427w.jpg > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Interesting also that when you take a photo of snow on a sunny day, it >comes out blue- reflecting the sky. Composition is pretty bad overall, but with some strong cropping you could still get a decent composition out of it because the birds posed themselves fairly nicely.
But why is it so blurry? Shot through a few panes of glass or something?
Looks more like the DOF is so shallow that only the mid-point of the twig the male cardinal is sitting on is the part in focus. Aren't those giant sensors and huge apertures wonderful?
Just checked the EXIF. Sheesh, f/5.6 and you still couldn't get both birds in focus. Yeah, I'll pass on those kinds of cameras, thanks anyway. When I'm shooting wildlife I have to make sure I have a useful image when I get back home.
M-M - 09 Feb 2010 01:40 GMT > Shot through a few panes of glass or something? That and the heat coming out of the house.
 Signature m-m http://www.mhmyers.com
Observant One - 09 Feb 2010 01:57 GMT >> Shot through a few panes of glass or something? > >That and the heat coming out of the house. Why was there heat coming out of the house? Shooting through an open window? If so, then you can't blame the glass. If it was closed then you can't blame the heat. Which is it?
The little bit of radiant heat leaving through a closed window will hardly be the cause of any air turbulence enough to cause that much blur. But as previously stated, it's not that kind of blur. It's mostly DOF blur. That wonderful bokeh that everyone prides their DSLRs in creating for them. A shame when the subjects you want in focus happen to be in that bokeh too. You got what you paid for. Right?
DanP - 09 Feb 2010 12:35 GMT > Why was there heat coming out of the house? Shooting through an open Same P&S troll.
DanP
Robert Coe - 12 Feb 2010 02:40 GMT : >> Shot through a few panes of glass or something? : > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] : window? If so, then you can't blame the glass. If it was closed then you : can't blame the heat. Which is it? ... He wasn't "blaming" anything, you stupid twerp. His is a better picture than any you ever took, and you damn well know that we all know it. ;^)
Bob
NameHere - 09 Feb 2010 01:50 GMT >>> >>> http://www.mhmyers.com/d80/DSC_21427w.jpg >> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >I'm shooting wildlife I have to make sure I have a useful image when I get >back home. Interesting. Using an online DOF calculator, if those birds were only 50 ft. away, your camera and lens would only have a useful DOF of 9.9 inches. I'm guessing that's probably pretty close to the situation, considering the blurriness and their seemingly apparent positions on the twigs. Or else they might even be closer, diminishing the DOF even further.
In order to get the same useless DOF with that focal length on a 2/3" sensor P&S camera, I would have to use a 450mm EFL at about f/0.8 (? possibly even wider). Instead, I can always get a useful DOF of about 22 inches at f/2.0. But since my favorite wildlife P&S camera only opens up to f/2.4 at that focal length (f/2.0 at shorter focal lengths), then I get 26 inches of useful DOF to adequately capture both of those birds in sharp focus. The other upside is that I can shoot at that same ISO noise-free (easily) but use a shutter speed of 1/700s instead of the 1/125s that was used, which probably also added to your image blur. What with that shutter and mirror slap and all adding to the blurriness too.
With a 1/2.5" sensor P&S camera then at widest aperture of about f/3.5 on most of them with that focal length, then you would get a 55 inch DOF at that distance with that focal length. Still a much more useful DOF and both birds would have been in sharp focus. Plus that's still 1.3 EV stops advantage, meaning it could be shot at a shutter speed of 1/320s.
Well, that was a fun thing to calculate.
1.3 to 2.3 stops aperture advantage to the $250-$350 P&S cameras and both providing a useful DOF. Then you would have come back home with a useful printable image. Rather than what you have now. One that can't even stand up to being published at 968x648 pixels, which means it can't even be printed at 3-4 inches in size horizontally. Seems that an awful lot of money was used to attain all that wonderful DSLR blur that everyone brags on. What a shame.
Boy, the cost of that thing must be really burning about now.
Thanks for providing yet another example that proves P&S camera excel for wildlife photography.
M-M - 09 Feb 2010 03:04 GMT > Thanks for providing yet another example that proves P&S camera excel for > wildlife photography. I think your P&S would have missed that shot since it would have been hunting for the focus and exposure in the time I got off 6 or 7 continuous. Or is your camera without shutter lag?
And a narrow DOF is an advantage, especially in this shot. You can have a different opinion if you like.
 Signature m-m http://www.mhmyers.com
NameHere - 09 Feb 2010 03:48 GMT >> Thanks for providing yet another example that proves P&S camera excel for >> wildlife photography. > >I think your P&S would have missed that shot since it would have been >hunting for the focus and exposure in the time I got off 6 or 7 >continuous. Or is your camera without shutter lag? Sorry to disappoint but my last P&S camera has only a 45ms shutter lag. That's faster than yours. Yours has to take time to move that mirror out of the way. I have many thousands of bird photos, some resting quietly on branches like yours are. Why you, or anyone, would need burst mode for those birds and shots is beyond me. They are clearly in roosting mode with their legs tucked up under their feathers, fluffed-up and staying perfectly still to keep warm. About all they'd do in that stance is move their heads a bit. Sorry, you can't bullshit a real wildlife photographer with your excuses. I know bird behaviors well. Most of my bird photos are in-flight shots. Try following some swifts or swallows in flight sometime with 300-450mm focal lengths. You could probably use the practice, especially if you'd need a crutch as big as any sort of burst mode for that unusable photo of unmoving birds.
btw1: How come multi-shot isn't listed in your EXIF info? All the other cameras normally list that. Does the EXIF info of "SceneType: Directly photographed" mean single-shot mode?
>And a narrow DOF is an advantage, especially in this shot. You can have >a different opinion if you like. If you consider having a photo so blurry that it can't even be printed at 3-4 inches in size as any kind of advantage, then ... I can only say that you have to be a camera salesperson's ultimate wet-dream.
btw2: Don't worry about all the lies you've tried to use for excuses so far. Most DSLR owners have to resort to that to justify their purchases to themselves. All that money they spent you know. What a bank-account heartache if they had to face up to reality. Nothing to worry about though. You're typical of most all DSLR owners and promoters.
DanP - 09 Feb 2010 10:21 GMT > Interesting. Using an online DOF calculator, if those birds were only 50 > ft. away, your camera and lens would only have a useful DOF of 9.9 inches. > I'm guessing that's probably pretty close to the situation, considering the > blurriness and their seemingly apparent positions on the twigs. Or else > they might even be closer, diminishing the DOF even further. Assuming the distance was 50ft the depth of field in that photo is 1.86ft (EXIF data Nikon D80 with 300mm and f/5.6) Narrow DOF is alway desirable. To increase it you can use always narrower aperture.
DanP
John McWilliams - 09 Feb 2010 23:35 GMT >> Interesting. Using an online DOF calculator, if those birds were only 50 >> ft. away, your camera and lens would only have a useful DOF of 9.9 inches.. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Narrow DOF is alway desirable. To increase it you can use always > narrower aperture. No, it isn't always desirable! What is desirable is the ability in a wide range of lighting conditions to be able to have shallow DoF- something only a quality DSLR and good lenses provide. Sometimes you'll want greater, sometimes lesser, DoF.
 Signature John McWilliams
M-M - 09 Feb 2010 12:46 GMT > One that can't even stand > up to being published at 968x648 pixels, which means it can't even be > printed at 3-4 inches in size horizontally. It looks very nice hanging in my office at 8.5" x 11"
 Signature m-m http://www.mhmyers.com
DanP - 09 Feb 2010 13:50 GMT > In article <n8b1n5li7827de7una11lt40bd3igsh...@4ax.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > -- > m-mhttp://www.mhmyers.com That is 88 dpi, more than what computer monitors have.
The P&S troll claims he had taken thousands of good pictures, yet he has no website to show his portofolio. He has showed once a bird on a plastic box, no crop.
He has shown he cannot calculate DOF.
Therefore I doubt he ever prints his photos.
DanP
M-M - 09 Feb 2010 14:15 GMT In article <ae5ce680-86f8-4963-9d1e-ea518e7d485d@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>,
> > > One that can't even stand > > > up to being published at 968x648 pixels, which means it can't even be [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > That is 88 dpi, more than what computer monitors have. Re: http://www.mhmyers.com/d80/DSC_21427w.jpg
The image posted was reduced to 25% of original and is not cropped, so full-scale it printed at 300 dpi.
 Signature m-m http://www.mhmyers.com
John McWilliams - 09 Feb 2010 23:36 GMT > In article > <ae5ce680-86f8-4963-9d1e-ea518e7d485d@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > The image posted was reduced to 25% of original and is not cropped, so > full-scale it printed at 300 dpi. Nobody prints at 300 dpi anymore. You probably mean the file from which it was printed was 300 ppi, no?
-=- john mcwilliams
M-M - 10 Feb 2010 00:56 GMT > Nobody prints at 300 dpi anymore. You probably mean the file from which > it was printed was 300 ppi, no? You're right. The original was 3872 x 2592 pixels, so a print at 12.9 x 8.6 inches would be 300 ppi.
 Signature m-m http://www.mhmyers.com
M-M - 09 Feb 2010 17:31 GMT In article <ae5ce680-86f8-4963-9d1e-ea518e7d485d@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>,
> The P&S troll claims he had taken thousands of good pictures, yet he > has no website to show his portofolio. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Therefore I doubt he ever prints his photos. My office is filled with prints of my photos. Here are some of the walls:
http://www.mhmyers.com/walls/prints.html
The print of the photo that is the topic of this thread is in there.
 Signature m-m http://www.mhmyers.com
Wolfgang Weisselberg - 10 Feb 2010 21:02 GMT > That is 88 dpi, more than what computer monitors have. My monitors run in excess of 120 dpi, so 88 dpi isn't really more. No, we're talking about rather old monitors ...
-Wolfgang
George Kerby - 09 Feb 2010 15:19 GMT On 2/8/10 5:00 PM, in article ha51n591hb9r2hh5pil1vtkih3fvu3k5vr@4ax.com,
>>>>>> http://www.mhmyers.com/d80/DSC_21427w.jpg >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I'm shooting wildlife I have to make sure I have a useful image when I get > back home. We ALL wish that you would "get back home".
Another day, another sock...
Robert Coe - 12 Feb 2010 02:33 GMT : >> >>> http://www.mhmyers.com/d80/DSC_21427w.jpg : > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] : I'm shooting wildlife I have to make sure I have a useful image when I get : back home. <Guffaw!!>
If simpleton trolls like you didn't exist, we might have to invent one now and then, just to remember what a hearty belly laugh feels like in these trying times.
Bob
Robert Coe - 12 Feb 2010 02:28 GMT : > >>> http://www.mhmyers.com/d80/DSC_21427w.jpg : [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] : Interesting also that when you take a photo of snow on a sunny day, it : comes out blue- reflecting the sky. Snow scenes tend to be so monochromatic that one can often set the white balance to almost any value and still get an interesting result. (Not the case with your cardinals, of course.)
Bob
Cal Rollins - 12 Feb 2010 03:33 GMT >: > >>> http://www.mhmyers.com/d80/DSC_21427w.jpg >: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Bob Adequately proving that you've never used any camera in your lifetime. In sunlight the sunlit patches of snow will be tinted to 6500 Kelvin, those in shade tinted by the blue sky, nearer to 9300K. If they are not balanced properly it will not look correct. The same two shades of white are also used by every painter who has ever painted a snow-covered house, field, or mountain. During sunrise and sunset then you also have to include hues of red, purple, and even greens. No different than clouds in a sunset due to the subtle shades occurring in the alpenglow and alpen-scheine bands in the sky, clouds present or not.
Go back to whatever other discussion groups where you can still pretend that you are fooling people with your "expertise". You'll be happier there, rather than you constantly being revealed as an ignorant troll in this one.
Cal Rollins - 12 Feb 2010 04:46 GMT >>: > >>> http://www.mhmyers.com/d80/DSC_21427w.jpg >>: [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >the subtle shades occurring in the alpenglow and alpen-scheine bands in the >sky, clouds present or not. Sample of snow colors in sunlight and shade, captured around 9am.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4052/4349907023_8b99948fca_o.jpg
If your photos are not representing snow in those warmer and cooler hues in sunlight and shade, then you should look up "white balance settings" in your camera manual. Because it's obviously something that you have overlooked or failed to implement correctly. These problems of all gray or all blue snows are mostly caused by rank-amateurs due to leaving the camera set on their snapshooter's auto-everything dependency. Using auto white-balance will tend to wipe out the important colors or shift them in error, just as it will do the same for sunrises and sunsets.
The only times where there is an exception is in the deeply packed snows of glaciers and icebergs where the natural blue color of water will be strongly apparent when light is passing through it. Contrary to the colors of surface snows with light only reflecting off of it.
To further educate the foolish trolls that will no doubt make their typical idiotic comments ... no that is not sensor noise nor hot-pixels in the example photo, that is the sunlight glinting off of snowflakes. A large percentage of them lost due to downsizing. The individual pixels of glinting snowflakes being combined into non-glinting neighbor pixels.
Jürgen Exner - 12 Feb 2010 04:50 GMT [whatever]
You are never running out of new fake names, are you?
jue
Mark L - 12 Feb 2010 05:04 GMT >[whatever] > >You are never running out of new fake names, are you? > >jue Show us your birth-certificate, you useless f.ck of a troll. Let us all know when you plan to *ever* contribute *any* valid information about photography. We'll alert all those that have long since put you in their kill-filters years ago.
Robert Coe - 14 Feb 2010 20:52 GMT : [whatever] : : You are never running out of new fake names, are you? I once met the real Carl Rollins when I was in college. (Google "Carl Rollins Yale".) So this is a particularly egregious appropriation, even though the troll didn't even manage to spell the name right.
Bob
Ken - 14 Feb 2010 21:36 GMT >: [whatever] >: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Bob Is that like spelling your name of Ken wrong when someone else's name is Kent? You're not too bright, but then that's all we can ever expect from a low-life troll, isn't it.
Robert Coe, thy name when spelled correctly be Rubber c.nt. Or should we just call you Bob Larter, a.k.a. Lionel Lauer. No. I think Rubber c.nt is a much more fitting name for you. So much more descriptive of your capabilities and station in life.
Cal Rollins - 12 Feb 2010 23:04 GMT >>>: > >>> http://www.mhmyers.com/d80/DSC_21427w.jpg >>>: [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] >percentage of them lost due to downsizing. The individual pixels of >glinting snowflakes being combined into non-glinting neighbor pixels. An interesting optical illusion, or a factual representation of the fractal nature of nature.
When this snow sample photo is inverted and a slight gaussian-blur applied to it to disguise the pointillistic effect of the individual snowflakes, except for brighter glinting snowflakes that somewhat remain, it now becomes indistinguishable from high cirrus clouds photographed with the available color temperatures of mid-morning sunlight.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4013/4352438956_931c8efa99_o.jpg
Fellow science, math, physics, art, and photography officianados might find this interesting.
Robert Coe - 13 Feb 2010 01:55 GMT : >: > >>> http://www.mhmyers.com/d80/DSC_21427w.jpg : >: [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] : that you are fooling people with your "expertise". You'll be happier there, : rather than you constantly being revealed as an ignorant troll in this one. I've lived in snowy areas longer than you've been alive, Jack, and you are as full of sh.t as a Christmas goose.
Bob
Peter - 13 Feb 2010 02:08 GMT > : >: > >>> http://www.mhmyers.com/d80/DSC_21427w.jpg > : >: [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > as > full of sh.t as a Christmas goose. Ignore the stupidity.
BTW I and some of the guys from my CC made reservations for NECCC at Amherst in July. Will you be there?
 Signature Peter
Cal Rollins - 13 Feb 2010 02:20 GMT >: >: > >>> http://www.mhmyers.com/d80/DSC_21427w.jpg >: >: [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > >Bob Perhaps you should learn to see the snow as it actually is instead of how you psychotically wish it looked. There's no sh.t about it, I posted proof. Which you and other useless trolls like you conveniently ignore. Put those blinders on and enjoy your bliss of self-induced ignorance some more, you fuckingly useless pretend-photographer idiot of troll. Wasting the time of good people who have to go around cleaning up all the piles of misinformation bullshit that you leave in your useless path through life.
Go back to whatever other discussion groups where you can still pretend that you are fooling people with your "expertise" (i.e. f.cking bullshit). You'll be happier there, rather than you constantly being revealed as an ignorant waste-of-life troll in this one.
Cal Rollins - 13 Feb 2010 02:48 GMT >: >: > >>> http://www.mhmyers.com/d80/DSC_21427w.jpg >: >: [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > >Bob Since you're so fuckingly blind, or just pathetically senile and stupid, here's that image again with 300% saturation applied to it to better show the yellows and oranges in the sunlit areas. I figured this might help your crippled senses since you're also probably far too ignorant and stupid to know how to use an editor to check the color-temperatures of those sunlit regions of snow.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2797/4352083277_dfb726411c_o.jpg
Get the hell out of this newsgroup you pathetically useless c.nt of role-playing troll. Hell, you couldn't even see how blurry that cardinal photos was. You're not only stupid, you're f.cking blind too. That goes double for anyone that might also stupidly agree with you.
Mike P - 08 Feb 2010 20:12 GMT >On 2/8/10 1:41 PM, in article >nospam.m-m-D19AAC.14415208022010@cpe-76-190-186-198.neo.res.rr.com, "M-M" [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Would be nice to be able to see it. All clear at this end :-)
Mike P
snapper@mailinator.com - 08 Feb 2010 20:26 GMT
> I thought this was a lucky catch: > > http://www.mhmyers.com/d80/DSC_21427w.jpg Shame about that vertical branch cutting the red bird in half.
Nervous Nick - 11 Feb 2010 01:23 GMT > I thought this was a lucky catch: > > http://www.mhmyers.com/d80/DSC_21427w.jpg > > -- > m-mhttp://www.mhmyers.com Very nice capture. Sweet! Needs cropping to vertical.
-- YOP...
Robert Coe - 12 Feb 2010 02:23 GMT : I thought this was a lucky catch: : : http://www.mhmyers.com/d80/DSC_21427w.jpg Yeah, I guess. But you have to help make your own luck by being there.
Very, very nice.
Bob
|
|
|