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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / Digital Photo / March 2010New archive DVDs...
Supposed to last for 1000 years. Instead of an organic dye, they have some mineral, and they need a special burner, that costs $5000. If you want to send the data to the company, it costs 30 euros for a DVD (4.7 GB, of course). Full story here, only in german: http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/gadgets/0,1518,661479,00.html  SignatureTzortzakakis Dimitrios major in electrical engineering mechanized infantry reservist hordad AT otenet DOT gr > Supposed to last for 1000 years. Instead of an organic dye, they have some > mineral, and they need a special burner, that costs $5000. If you want to > send the data to the company, it costs 30 euros for a DVD (4.7 GB, of > course). Full story here, only in german: > http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/gadgets/0,1518,661479,00.html I see, and if after say 5 or 6 hundred years the thing becomes non readable, do I get a refund. >> Supposed to last for 1000 years. Instead of an organic dye, they have >> some mineral, and they need a special burner, that costs $5000. If you [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I see, and if after say 5 or 6 hundred years the thing becomes non > readable, do I get a refund. lol, never thought of that. The problem would be that in a couple generations the optical drives will be obsolete to quantum drives or whatever the new technology woil be. SignatureTzortzakakis Dimitrios major in electrical engineering mechanized infantry reservist hordad AT otenet DOT gr > >> Supposed to last for 1000 years. Instead of an organic dye, they have > >> some mineral, and they need a special burner, that costs $5000. If you [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > mechanized infantry reservist > hordad AT otenet DOT gr I honestly doubt that any civilization 500 years from now would be prevented from reading a crude optical disk because specific players weren't available. >> >> Supposed to last for 1000 years. Instead of an organic dye, they have >> >> some mineral, and they need a special burner, that costs $5000. If you [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >prevented from reading a crude optical disk because specific players >weren't available. You mean like all the knowledge and wisdom that was lost during The Dark Ages and the christians' Crusades when they destroyed everything according to christians' laws? From which we still haven't recovered nor found what was lost. E.g.1 There remain hints to important herbal cures once known, but not the actual cures. I studied herbalism/herbology for over a decade looking for a cure for something that has no known cure today but there was a cure in the distant past. I always ran into the christian-created Dark Ages' brick-wall-of-ignorance in my research, no matter which avenue I used to try to uncover that knowledge. Time and time again. E.g.2 There remain hints of the Druids, but no actual writings nor factual information about their real-life existence. Any books written on them today are just author's fabrications and speculations, no matter what anyone might claim to the contrary. (This is why Druids are a favorite of historian authors, nobody can disprove what an author might conjure up about them.) E.g.3 Etc. It's not just a matter of storage-media technology, it's a huge matter of human behavior and values. In 500 years you could have TWC, "The World Corporation", wipe out access to all recorded knowledge in order to control you better. In their corporate wars they might bury the technology needed to read optical-media by generations 500 years from now (if those generations even still exist). Creating their laws that their obedient and brainwashed indentured-servants will carry out for them. That all knowledge be moved to their newly "patented" muon nano-cube storage system. All previous storage means destroyed, by law. They then edit out the pertinent parts that they don't want anyone to know, so that nobody can ever go back and reclaim the knowledge needed to undermine their self-imposed and self-declared authority over you. (No different than what christians did just before their having caused and created The Dark Ages and remain defending their actions and values to this very day.) The means to reclaim that knowledge no longer taught in schools, it's now a TWC corporate crime to do so. Punishable by death. The method to read optical data could disappear in well under 150 years. I have a box of 8" dia. floppy-disks in my storage shed (single-sided, 168k capacity). Do you have a drive, interface card, and the software to read them? This is from only 30 years ago. Yes, they could be read. But who still has the proper hardware, cables, and software readily available? Who is going to go through all that trouble and expense just to see what might be on all those unmarked floppies to try to reclaim any fading data? Some genius might have recorded the means to jump through time and space in a text-file digital journal on one of them. His intentional method of storing it that way to prevent a presently undeserving populace from having that knowledge just yet. But who's going to go look for, or even suspect that? The knowledge now lost forever due to a simple storage-media shift in less than 40 years. The hardware too difficult to find, too costly a venture, there's probably nothing interesting on them anyway even if you could recover the data on them. It's just not worth the bother. Toss them in the incinerator. Just as they might do with any old optical media of yours that they might find in another 50 years. There's too many other things going on to waste their time on your old CDs and DVDs and hard-drives. It might even be made illegal to have something like that in your possession. So you blindly obey, just as you now all blindly obey to all present corporate and religion invented laws. You've been socially programmed to do so, whether you want to believe that or not. Toss 'em, burn 'em. There's nothing interesting on them anyway and you might get in trouble with someone's laws for even wanting to see what's on them. The actual storage-media and method used is just a tiny fraction of the real problem. > So you blindly > obey, just as you now all blindly obey to all present corporate and > religion invented laws. You've been socially programmed to do so, > whether you want to believe that or not. Toss 'em, burn 'em. There's > nothing interesting on them anyway and you might get in trouble with > someone's laws for even wanting to see what's on them. Even the most remote possibility of any of them containing kiddie-porn is enough to abrogate any rights of review you might think you now have. >>I honestly doubt that any civilization 500 years from now would be >>prevented from reading a crude optical disk because specific players [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >to christians' laws? From which we still haven't recovered nor found what >was lost. If you don't want to read a deeper historical context, skip down a bit to the more on-point discusson..... ********* very brief historical context Funny, thing is, this was "the way of the world" (tm) for eons of human existence. Whole civilizations were being wiped out way before Christianity entered the picture, and even since then, it hasn't only been Christianity that's done the wiping (e.g.1, muslims have done their own share). Don't take this as any defense of the actions of some who follow Christianity, but taken in context, the world was a much different place. Our more "civil" attitudes are really, very very recent in the overall history human existence. And, in fact, in general most of human civilization placed nearly zero value on "human life" prior to Christianity (and yes, I am fully aware of that irony). Again, not saying that Christianity has saved the world, just pointing out that your blinders may be set too narrowly focused. ******* skipped brief historical context The real issue isn't that we would "forget" that knowledge, but that it would not be readily available. For example, we haven't lost the knowledge of how to read 9-track mag tapes, but most people would have a very difficult time finding a way to read one (the drives, the controllers, the drivers, etc.). And there have been probably 10 generations of magnet tape devices since them, and only the last 3 or so gens are readily accessible to anyone who would want to use them. I did an estimate for a financial institution a couple of years ago who wanted to know how much it would cost to restore 9,000 tapes, going back 7 years. They no longer had the hardware to read many of those tapes, and we'd have had to go to 3rd parties who specialized in doing that work - and even those 3rd parties didn't have some of the needed hardware and software to do the job. In some cases, they may have had to work out a contract with the Smithsonian to use some of their old stuff, I can't recall for sure. Anyway, the estimated cost just to READ all of the tapes and put the data on hard disk drives would have cost over $3.5 million (USD). >Our more "civil" attitudes are really, very very recent in the overall >history human existence. And, in fact, in general most of human >civilization placed nearly zero value on "human life" prior to >Christianity (and yes, I am fully aware of that irony). Again, not >saying that Christianity has saved the world, just pointing out that >your blinders may be set too narrowly focused. Just pointing out that more humans have been used as blood sacrifices worldwide to appease their beliefs in a christian god than any other religions known to man. Four continents worth of human lives and uncounted civilizations have been sacrificed by christians to further their self-serving beliefs. Christianity doesn't value human life, only their own lives and the lives of the unseen "soul" of others that they can sacrifice to their false-love god--love without respect for all others is false love, make no mistake about that. They've never saved anything worthwhile for humanity. Destroy, on the other hand, they're really good at that. Pagans revered life. So much so that they even decorated living trees with food for the wildlife and ornaments of spiritual power in the harshest time of year in northern climates to pay homage to all life. Christians then cut down, destroyed, those living and non-burnable trees and hid them in their homes to destroy others' holidays and customs. Now reinventing the holiday to pay homage to an imaginary life in the sky. The origin of the x-mas tree tradition today. Don't give me this sh.t that christians know more about valuing life than others, human or otherwise. Just three decades ago they were yelling the christian human-sacrifice war-cry of "Let the fags die of AIDS!" as further proof of how little they value human life and all life on earth. They only value a life after death. Their actions and behaviors are not only proven historically they still sacrifice human lives to this day to appease their beliefs in their false-god. They value nothing but their self-serving selves and their easily proved-false beliefs. > I did an estimate for a financial institution a couple of years ago > who wanted to know how much it would cost to restore 9,000 tapes, [...] > their old stuff, I can't recall for sure. Anyway, the estimated cost > just to READ all of the tapes and put the data on hard disk drives > would have cost over $3.5 million (USD). An average 389 USD per tape, which includes buying/renting really old and rare tape machines isn't exactly expensive. It would be interesting how much data (bytes) was involved. It would also be interesting why those tapes were not migrated to newer media as old systems started to become unavailable --- probably due to cost cutting by some manager who should be forced to pay the money he 'saved' by increasing costs by something like 3 million USD. -Wolfgang >> I did an estimate for a financial institution a couple of years ago >> who wanted to know how much it would cost to restore 9,000 tapes, [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > to pay the money he 'saved' by increasing costs by something like > 3 million USD. Yes-when ordinary 3 1/2" floppies started becoming obsolete, I trasferred all my floppies to a single cd rom. We still have my mum's old PC in Vori (holiday house) with a working 3 1/2 " floppy. I also have a working VCR, a record player and a tape walkman.... SignatureTzortzakakis Dimitrios major in electrical engineering mechanized infantry reservist hordad AT otenet DOT gr > In 500 years you could have TWC, "The World Corporation", wipe out access > to all recorded knowledge in order to control you better. In their [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Punishable by death. The method to read optical data could disappear in > well under 150 years. Not that you're paranoid of anything... > I have a box of 8" dia. floppy-disks in my storage shed (single-sided, 168k > capacity). Do you have a drive, interface card, and the software to read [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > it that way to prevent a presently undeserving populace from having that > knowledge just yet. LOL. It figures that you're the kind of schizophrenic nutcase who imagines that he's made major discoveries. SignatureW . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est ---^----^--------------------------------------------------------------- >> In 500 years you could have TWC, "The World Corporation", wipe out access >> to all recorded knowledge in order to control you better. In their [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >LOL. It figures that you're the kind of schizophrenic nutcase who >imagines that he's made major discoveries. Bob Larter's legal name: Lionel Lauer Home news-group, an actual group in the "troll-tracker" hierarchy: alt.kook.lionel-lauer (established on, or before, 2004) Registered Description: "the 'owner of several troll domains' needs a group where he'll stay on topic." <http://groups.google.com/groups/search?hl=en&num=10&as_ugroup=alt.kook.lionel-lauer> "Results 1 - 10 of about 2,170 for group:alt.kook.lionel-lauer." > > Supposed to last for 1000 years. Instead of an organic dye, they have some > > mineral, and they need a special burner, that costs $5000. If you want to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I see, and if after say 5 or 6 hundred years the thing becomes non > readable, do I get a refund. Only if your name is "Methuselah." SignatureCordially, John Turco <jtur@concentric.net> Paintings Pain and Pun <http://laughatthepain.blogspot.com> > Supposed to last for 1000 years. Instead of an organic dye, they have > some mineral, and they need a special burner, that costs $5000. If > you want to send the data to the company, it costs 30 euros for a DVD > (4.7 GB, of course). Full story here, only in german: > http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/gadgets/0,1518,661479,00.html If you look at the illustration on that page you'll see that it is in English, which led me to believe that the company making the thing was not German--I searched on "m-arc disc" and found http://www.millenniata.com/. Turns out that it is a Utah company founded by a professor at BYU. It's a clever concept, but I find myself wondering where the vapor produced by the etching process goes. >> Supposed to last for 1000 years. Instead of an organic dye, they have >> some mineral, and they need a special burner, that costs $5000. If [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > produced > by the etching process goes. Yes, the company is US, like all good things:-) Only the article is in german. SignatureTzortzakakis Dimitrios major in electrical engineering mechanized infantry reservist hordad AT otenet DOT gr > Supposed to last for 1000 years. So, will there be DVD readers a millenium from now? Hell, will there be DVD readers even 10 years from now?? >> Supposed to last for 1000 years. > > So, will there be DVD readers a millenium from now? > > Hell, will there be DVD readers even 10 years from now?? Who knows-a DVD could be to the archeologists of the future such a conundrum as the disc of Phaestus.... SignatureTzortzakakis Dimitrios major in electrical engineering mechanized infantry reservist hordad AT otenet DOT gr >> Supposed to last for 1000 years. > So, will there be DVD readers a millenium from now? If you care for your data, you'll copy it to another medium before DVDs in general stop being widely readable. So it'll not be any problem. > Hell, will there be DVD readers even 10 years from now?? Yes. Do you really think everyone is going to upgrade their DVD collection to the newest fad of the industry? Do you think they'll outlaw DVDs? See, the market for DVD readers will be there and hence it will be supplied. You can get a record player if you want, even today ... -Wolfgang > See, the market for DVD readers will be there and hence it will be > supplied. You can get a record player if you want, even today ... For some kitschy reason vinyl is seeing a resurgence, especially among the youth that don't fully appreciate improvements they've taken for granted all their short lives. Maybe someday film cameras will be the latest rave? <edited for brevity> > > Hell, will there be DVD readers even 10 years from now?? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > -Wolfgang Unfortunately, the only phonographs readily available nowadays, seem to be of the crude USB variety. They're designed expressly for the conversion of vinyl records into digital files, on home computers. Hence, these cheap, rudimentary turntables are mainly suited to archival purposes, and little else...audiophiles, beware! SignatureCordially, John Turco <jtur@concentric.net> Paintings Pain and Pun <http://laughatthepain.blogspot.com> ><edited for brevity> > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >Hence, these cheap, rudimentary turntables are mainly suited >to archival purposes, and little else...audiophiles, beware! ...you gotta shop around, but *good* turntables are out there...archivists in general don't recommend the usb variety...I use a good quality Music Hall that runs through a preamp and into my 'puter. You pay for what you get... cg > Unfortunately, the only phonographs readily available nowadays, > seem to be of the crude USB variety. Go to amazon and enter "turntable" http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=turntable& x=0&y=0 and you'll find lots of non-USB turntables. In fact, the first page, there are 8 non-USB record players and only 7 USB record players. Additionally, look at the prices for USB turntables there. You'll find quite a few costing well above $200, when some others sell at $70 or $100 ... do you think the expensive ones must be crude, just because they also have USB? > They're designed expressly > for the conversion of vinyl records into digital files, on home > computers. Some are, some write directly to CD. http://www.amazon.com/ION-USB-Turntable-Built-Recording/dp/B001B9SH4U/ http://www.amazon.com/Crosley-CR6001A-BK-Archiver-Turntable-Black/dp/B001IVM51C/ http://www.amazon.com/Crosley-CR2413A-BK-Memory-Master-Recorder/dp/B002P8M5FS/ Others have not only USB, but also S/PDIF ... http://www.amazon.com/Stanton-T-90-USB-TURNTABLE/dp/B000UBSY48/ > Hence, these cheap, rudimentary turntables are mainly suited > to archival purposes, and little else...audiophiles, beware! I doubt this one is. It's probably not what your oxygen-free cable audiophile wants, though, I suspect it lacks buzzwords: http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/01/16/ces.luxury.turntable/index.html Maybe you would now reconsider your position on the availability of phonographs? -Wolfgang >> Unfortunately, the only phonographs readily available nowadays, >> seem to be of the crude USB variety. [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > Maybe you would now reconsider your position on the > availability of phonographs? http://www.needledoctor.com/Clearaudio-Statement-Turntable?sc=7&category=12248 "Only" $ 150,000 and that's without an arm or cartridge! And then, you still have to get an amp/pre amp and speakers, and cd player! SignatureTzortzakakis Dimitrios major in electrical engineering mechanized infantry reservist hordad AT otenet DOT gr snip >> Maybe you would now reconsider your position on the >> availability of phonographs? >http://www.needledoctor.com/Clearaudio-Statement-Turntable?sc=7&category=12248 >"Only" $ 150,000 and that's without an arm or cartridge! And then, you still >have to get an amp/pre amp and speakers, and cd player! But the cartridge is only $10,000! > > Unfortunately, the only phonographs readily available nowadays, > > seem to be of the crude USB variety. [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > -Wolfgang Okay, Wolfgang...you made your point. My response to you (and to a couple of others, who replied to my earlier post) is that I'd qualified my statement, by writing: "readily available nowadays" You see, if one must scour the World Wide Web, in order to find current turntables of any adequacy -- well, then, the word "readily" need not apply! Here in the USA (until a few years ago), such electronic equipment was sold in common "brick and mortar" stores (e.g., Sears and Best Buy). SignatureCordially, John Turco <jtur@concentric.net> Paintings Pain and Pun <http://laughatthepain.blogspot.com> >> > Unfortunately, the only phonographs readily available nowadays, >> > seem to be of the crude USB variety. [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > sold in common "brick and mortar" stores >(e.g.,Sears and Best Buy). The pro-ject debutIII eg is readily available in most places around the world, including the USA. I bought one in March, for 420 euros IIRC with a RIAA preamp (almost all modern amps lack a phono stage). The stereo shop had it off-the-shelf, no ordering-only it was piano black, but there are other colours. My point is, if that you want a turntable, you have to go to an audiophile shop-masses buy now mp3s and plasma tvs-no more turntables in Best Buy. SignatureTzortzakakis Dimitrios major in electrical engineering mechanized infantry reservist hordad AT otenet DOT gr > >> > Unfortunately, the only phonographs readily available nowadays, > >> > seem to be of the crude USB variety. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >> first page, there are 8 non-USB record players and only 7 USB > >> record players. <edited for brevity> > >> Maybe you would now reconsider your position on the availability of > >> phonographs? [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > world, including the USA. I bought one in March, for 420 euros IIRC with > a RIAA preamp (almost all modern amps lack a phono stage). As for myself, I've noticed the cheaper A/V receivers often >do< have such "RIAA preamps." It's the more expensive models (featuring HDMI) which lack them, in recent times. For example, in November of 2008, we replaced a Panasonic SA-HE100, with a Sony STR-DG720. The costlier Sony was especially coveted, for its combo of 3 HDMI inputs/1 output. Yet, unlike its less heralded Panasonic counterpart (a March, 2005 purchase), the STR-DG720 is absent a phono jack! Manufacturers assume that "videophiles" who watch Blu-ray movies, aren't inclined to bother with old-fashioned vinyl audio discs, I suppose. > The stereo shop had it off-the-shelf, no ordering-only it was piano black, > but there are other colours. My point is, if that you want a turntable, > you have to go to an audiophile shop-masses buy now mp3s and plasma tvs-no > more turntables in Best Buy. Our first decent, stand-alone record player (Pioneer PL-590, belt-drive) was bought locally, circa 1988. A higher-end Fisher MT-275 (direct-drive) arrived in 1991, via a mail order catalogue company (Damark). (Both are black, naturally.) SignatureCordially, John Turco <jtur@concentric.net> Paintings Pain and Pun <http://laughatthepain.blogspot.com> >> >> > Unfortunately, the only phonographs readily available nowadays, >> >> > seem to be of the crude USB variety. [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > "RIAA preamps." It's the more expensive models (featuring HDMI) which lack > them, in recent times. You are talking about A/V, what I bought was a pure audio, stereo amp (Cambridge Audio azur 340 A SE-goes without saying, made in China). What does an audio A/V amp need a HDMI for, simply slecting the source to feed to the TV? > For example, in November of 2008, we replaced a Panasonic SA-HE100, with a > Sony STR-DG720. The costlier Sony was especially coveted, for its combo of > 3 HDMI inputs/1 output. Was the Pan an older one, in recent years almost everything comes without phono (although vinyl records have all but become obsolete) > Yet, unlike its less heralded Panasonic counterpart (a March, 2005 > purchase), [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > vinyl > audio discs, I suppose. Indeed, yes. I bought a record player because we had none in the '80s and I wanted to listen to my records and let my cd player "rest" while I am listening to my records. >> The stereo shop had it off-the-shelf, no ordering-only it was piano >> black, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > was bought locally, circa 1988. A higher-end Fisher MT-275 (direct-drive) > arrived in 1991, via a mail order catalogue company (Damark). My first decent is just that one, belt driven too. It has an ortofon OM 5 cartridge, too. SignatureTzortzakakis Dimitrios major in electrical engineering mechanized infantry reservist hordad AT otenet DOT gr <edited for brevity> > >> The pro-ject debutIII eg is readily available in most places around the > >> world, including the USA. I bought one in March, for 420 euros IIRC with [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > does an audio A/V amp need a HDMI for, simply slecting the source to feed to > the TV? Yes. Presently, our Sony STR-DG720 A/V receiver's lone HDMI output is connected to a Sanyo HT30744 (30" wide-screen High Definition CRT television set), and two of its three HDMI inputs are occupied by a Panasonic DMR-ES45V (VHS/DVD recorder combo deck) and a Magnavox NB500MS9 (Blu-ray player). > > For example, in November of 2008, we replaced a Panasonic SA-HE100, with a > > Sony STR-DG720. The costlier Sony was especially coveted, for its combo of > > 3 HDMI inputs/1 output. > > Was the Pan an older one, in recent years almost everything comes without > phono (although vinyl records have all but become obsolete) The Panasonic SA-HE100 was still current, when it was acquired during March of 2005. <edited> > > Manufacturers assume that "videophiles" who watch Blu-ray movies, aren't > > inclined to bother with old-fashioned vinyl audio discs, I suppose. > > Indeed, yes. I bought a record player because we had none in the '80s and > I wanted to listen to my records and let my cd player "rest" while I am > listening to my records. I'm much more of a video fan, personally. > >> The stereo shop had it off-the-shelf, no ordering-only it was piano > >> black, but there are other colours. My point is, if that you want a [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > My first decent is just that one, belt driven too. It has an ortofon OM 5 > cartridge, too. The PL-590 and MT-275 were both made in Japan, which is a good indication of their respective ages. (Back then, China wasn't nearly the manufacturing hub that it is today.) Once (in 2000), I had to change the PL-590's belt. The substitute part was ordered directly from Pioneer's U.S. branch (USD $11.34 total). Rather oddly, the damned shipping charge ($7.09) was higher than the skinny, practically weightless belt ($4.25), itself! SignatureCordially, John Turco <jtur@concentric.net> Paintings Pain and Pun <http://laughatthepain.blogspot.com> >> > Unfortunately, the only phonographs readily available nowadays, >> > seem to be of the crude USB variety. >> Go to amazon and enter "turntable" > Okay, Wolfgang...you made your point. My response to you (and to a couple of > others, who replied to my earlier post) is that I'd qualified my statement, > by writing: > "readily available nowadays" Which means *nowadays* it's just going to the next big retailer, e.g. amazon, and putting the type of thing you search into the search box. > You see, if one must scour the World Wide Web, in order to find current > turntables of any adequacy -- well, then, the word "readily" need not > apply! You see, if one has no hands, feeds, tongue, nose etc. in order to type with --- well, then, the word "readily" wouldn't apply to typing, either! But in your case it's just a case of being completely unskilled in finding things on the web --- anyone with basic skills does not need to scour the web at all. > Here in the USA (until a few years ago), such electronic equipment was > sold in common "brick and mortar" stores (e.g., Sears and Best Buy). Sears and Best Buy don't sell DSLRs, and certainly not high end DSLRs. By your logic, they are not readily available. -Wolfgang > >> > Unfortunately, the only phonographs readily available nowadays, > >> > seem to be of the crude USB variety. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > retailer, e.g. amazon, and putting the type of thing you > search into the search box. I >do< use Amazon (and several similar sites), Herr Kaiser Wolfgang. > > You see, if one must scour the World Wide Web, in order to find current > > turntables of any adequacy -- well, then, the word "readily" need not [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > in finding things on the web --- anyone with basic skills > does not need to scour the web at all. In reality, you're not quite so omniscient as you appear to be (in your own delusions of grandeur). Else, you'd know that I've made numerous online transactions, during my 14 years on the Internet. For instance, I became an eBay member, in July, 2001; I'm strictly a buyer, there, and presently have a feedback rating of 86 (100% positive). Before that, I'd bought and sold some items, by way of Usenet "forsale" groups. My best deal involved receiving $4,500 USD, for my 2,000+ comic book collection (in the summer of 1996). Also, I've downloaded countless freeware applications (among other stuff) and gleaned vast amounts of information, on various subjects. > > Here in the USA (until a few years ago), such electronic equipment was > > sold in common "brick and mortar" stores (e.g., Sears and Best Buy). [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > -Wolfgang Best Buy most definitely >does< sell DSLR's -- and even Wal-Mart and Target carry them, now. Nonetheless, I obtained my Pentax K100D (body only) from BuyDig.com <http://www.buydig.com>, in Sept. '07. Oh, yeah; the K100D is "certainly not high end," nor is it as "readily available" as its Canon and Nikon rivals. SignatureCordially, John Turco <jtur@concentric.net> Paintings Pain and Pun <http://laughatthepain.blogspot.com> >> > "readily available nowadays" >> Which means *nowadays* it's just going to the next big >> retailer, e.g. amazon, and putting the type of thing you >> search into the search box. > I >do< use Amazon (and several similar sites), Herr Kaiser Wolfgang. And you cannot find turntables? Are you sure your computer's connected to the internet? > In reality, you're not quite so omniscient as you appear to be (in your > own delusions of grandeur). Else, you'd know that I've made numerous > online transactions, during my 14 years on the Internet. And you still cannot find turntables on the internet? > For instance, I became an eBay member, in July, 2001; I'm strictly a > buyer, there, and presently have a feedback rating of 86 (100% positive). And you still cannot find turntables on the internet? > Before that, I'd bought and sold some items, by way of Usenet "forsale" > groups. My best deal involved receiving $4,500 USD, for my 2,000+ comic > book collection (in the summer of 1996). And you still cannot find turntables on the internet? > Also, I've downloaded countless freeware applications (among other > stuff) and gleaned vast amounts of information, on various subjects. And you still cannot find turntables on the internet? Now I'm impressed --- all those years, deals, downloads and information and he cannot even find trivial-to-find turntables --- even on Amazon, which he knows about! That's real dedication! > Oh, yeah; the K100D is "certainly not high end," nor is it as "readily > available" as its Canon and Nikon rivals. Which means you surely haven't found it. BTW: EOD. It's not worth my time. -Wolfgang > >> > "readily available nowadays" > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > And you cannot find turntables? Are you sure your computer's > connected to the internet? <deleted repetitive ranting> Quite certain...and I haven't been in the market for a turntable, since my 1991 mail order purchase (from Damark) of a Fisher MT-275. That was several years, before I even owned a computer or had online access. (My lower-cost version of the MT-275 didn't include a dust cover, and a few subsequent Google searches revealed very few "hits" on this particular Fisher-branded phonograph.) > BTW: EOD. It's not worth my time. > > -Wolfgang "EOD" = "end of discussion" -- you're just too cute, Corky. SignatureCordially, John Turco <jtur@concentric.net> Paintings Pain and Pun <http://laughatthepain.blogspot.com> >>>>> Unfortunately, the only phonographs readily available nowadays, >>>>> seem to be of the crude USB variety. [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > Oh, yeah; the K100D is "certainly not high end," nor is it as "readily > available" as its Canon and Nikon rivals. I was in Waterloo Records in Austin a few days ago and the had over 40 turntables (several brands) boxed and stacked on the floor; I assume they had more in their stockroom. From the sound, storage space, durability and convenience standpoints, though, I don't know why anyone would want to go back. Allen >>>>>> Unfortunately, the only phonographs readily available nowadays, >>>>>> seem to be of the crude USB variety. [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > turntables (several brands) boxed and stacked on the floor; I assume they > had more in their stockroom. From the sound, a properly stored and cleaned record sounds as good as a cd >storage space, that's a minus for records > durability and convenience standpoints, though, I strangely enough, I have many cds that are scratched, skipping but no records. For records, they are,of course, less convenient than cds. >don't know why anyone would want to go back. Indeed, it's going back. records are so much 20th century, cds are 21st. But many people are nostalgic about the '80s. But the big thing is that with the turntable-you participate in the whole thing. You pick the cartridge yourself;possibly install it. Set the tracking weight yourself; set the antiskating weight;put the turntable together, from its individually packed pieces. While, OTOH the cd player is a "black box";you don't even know how it exactly works and you have no access to its mechanism. (All turntable owners can change the stylus, but how many people can change the cd's equivalent, the laser assembly?). With the turntable, it's easy to understand its operation, a very simple principle. I understand that what I wrote does concern a small niche of people, not the general public. The average Joe doesn't give a damn if his cd player has an infrared laser or a red one, or if it's PCM modulated, all he cares is he presses play and he has music. But what makes our western countries great is freedom;I want a turntable, so I work and buy one! No chairman of the supreme Soviet decides what should the people have, everything is available. SignatureTzortzakakis Dimitrios major in electrical engineering mechanized infantry reservist hordad AT otenet DOT gr > ? "Allen" <allent@austin.rr.com> ?????? ??? ?????? <heavily edited for brevity> > > I was in Waterloo Records in Austin a few days ago and the had over 40 > > turntables (several brands) boxed and stacked on the floor; I assume they [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > antiskating weight;put the turntable together, from its individually packed > pieces. Lots o' luck, trying to find a cheap USB phonograph with a user-adjustable "antiskating weight." > While, OTOH the cd player is a "black box";you don't even know howit exactly > works and you have no access to its mechanism. (All turntable owners can > change the stylus, but how many people can change the cd's equivalent, the > laser assembly?). There's hardly any >need< to do so! A "laser assembly" is rather unlikely to wear out, during a CD player's serviceable lifetime. > With the turntable, it's easy to understand its operation, a very simple > principle. I understand that what I wrote does concern a small niche of > people, not the general public. The average Joe doesn't give a damn if his > cd player has an infrared laser or a red one, or if it's PCM modulated, all > he cares is he presses play and he has music. Why >should< he care about anything else, eh? Whether Compact Discs or vinyl records are involved, the idea is to produce "high fidelity" sound, suited to the listener's personal tastes. Knowledge of how an electronic device operates, is of no assistance toward the true goal of musical enjoyment. > But what makes our western countries great is freedom;I want a turntable, > so I work and buy one! No chairman of the supreme Soviet decides what > should the people have, everything is available. On a related note, I recall horror stories concerning Russian television sets, manufactured in the days of the former Soviet Union. It seems that those Commie "boob tubes" of old, had a terrifying propensity to catch fire...which, at the very least, was not exactly conducive to TV viewing pleasure! SignatureCordially, John Turco <jtur@concentric.net> Paintings Pain and Pun <http://laughatthepain.blogspot.com> > On a related note, I recall horror stories concerning Russian television > sets, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > to catch fire...which, at the very least, was not exactly conducive to TV > viewing pleasure! Unless one has a strange sense of humor SignaturePeter > > On a related note, I recall horror stories concerning Russian television > > sets, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Unless one has a strange sense of humor Yeah, there could've been a hot time in the ol' gulag, all right! SignatureCordially, John Turco <jtur@concentric.net> Paintings Pain and Pun <http://laughatthepain.blogspot.com> >> ? "Allen" <allent@austin.rr.com> ?????? ??? ?????? > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > Lots o' luck, trying to find a cheap USB phonograph with a user-adjustable > "antiskating weight." yeah, indeed I saw one going for 150 euros and it looked very crappy, all plastic (RichA)? >> While, OTOH the cd player is a "black box";you don't even know howit >> exactly [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > to > wear out, during a CD player's serviceable lifetime. Well, my Panasonic boombox needed one, and I waited 6 months for it to come from Japan (it's called "optical" in the repairman's jargon). >> With the turntable, it's easy to understand its operation, a very simple >> principle. I understand that what I wrote does concern a small niche of [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > records are involved, the idea is to produce "high fidelity" sound, suited > to the listener's personal tastes. The problem is that the turntable works on a relative simple principle, and the user participates, by adjusting tracking and antiskating on his own, etc. > Knowledge of how an electronic device operates, is of no assistance toward > the true goal of musical enjoyment. To you maybe not, but to many audiophiles maybe yes, because cd "red book" is quite difficult to undestand. >> But what makes our western countries great is freedom;I want a turntable, >> so I work and buy one! No chairman of the supreme Soviet decides what [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > to catch fire...which, at the very least, was not exactly conducive to TV > viewing pleasure! Well, I'm not certain whether they imploded (not exploded) but certainly some chinese did, and they were lucky to buy any TVs, because the commie countries had what the germans call "Mangelwirtschaft", starving economy. I read an article about the first McDonalds in Moscow, and it was a sensation that, for the first time in the USSR, there was a restaurant that could serve everything that was on the menu! SignatureTzortzakakis Dimitrios major in electrical engineering mechanized infantry reservist hordad AT otenet DOT gr <edited for brevity> > > Lots o' luck, trying to find a cheap USB phonograph with a user-adjustable > > "antiskating weight." > > yeah, indeed I saw one going for 150 euros and it looked very crappy, all > plastic (RichA)? RichA, >himself<, is probably made of plastic! Or, at least, his alleged "brain" is constructed of substandard material(s). <edited> > > A "laser assembly" is rather unlikely to wear out, during a CD player's > > serviceable lifetime. > > Well, my Panasonic boombox needed one, and I waited 6 months for it to come > from Japan (it's called "optical" in the repairman's jargon). 6 months? That's absolutely abysmal "service," man! Is Panasonic's parts depot located on Jupiter (instead of in Japan), perhaps? <edited> > > Whether Compact Discs or vinyl records are involved, the idea is to produce > > "high fidelity" sound, suited to the listener's personal tastes. > > The problem is that the turntable works on a relative simple principle, and > the user participates, by adjusting tracking and antiskating on his own, > etc. Because, on a phonograph, he >needs< to fiddle with settings. Whereas, with the CD player, tracking is automatic and "antiskating" mechanisms are entirely unnecessary. > > Knowledge of how an electronic device operates, is of no assistance toward > > the true goal of musical enjoyment. > > To you maybe not, but to many audiophiles maybe yes, because cd "red book" > is quite difficult to undestand. Regardless, memorizing technical terminology won't improve any music lover's listening experience. > >> But what makes our western countries great is freedom;I want a turntable, > >> so I work and buy one! No chairman of the supreme Soviet decides what [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > that, for the first time in the USSR, there was a restaurant that could > serve everything that was on the menu! Those rascally Russians finally did >something< right, eh? SignatureCordially, John Turco <jtur@concentric.net> Paintings Pain and Pun <http://laughatthepain.blogspot.com> > <edited for brevity> > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Is Panasonic's parts depot located on Jupiter (instead of in Japan), > perhaps? No, but I was 6 months without music. > <edited> > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > entirely > unnecessary. Exactly. So, the cd will always be a "black box" to me, and the record player something I completely understand and can "fiddle" with. >> > Knowledge of how an electronic device operates, is of no assistance >> > toward [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > lover's > listening experience. Indeed, yes. And after getting my degree, I have no desire to learn something that complicated, and for no reason at all. >> >> But what makes our western countries great is freedom;I want a >> >> turntable, [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Those rascally Russians finally did >something< right, eh? Yeah, if you count out ICBMs and kalaschnikows, they supplied each household with a B/W Tv, and a primus stove. SignatureTzortzakakis Dimitrios major in electrical engineering mechanized infantry reservist hordad AT otenet DOT gr <heavily edited for brevity> > >> >> But what makes our western countries great is freedom;I want > >> >> a turntable, so I work and buy one! No chairman of the supreme [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Yeah, if you count out ICBMs and kalaschnikows, they supplied each household > with a B/W Tv, and a primus stove. <edited> While I don't know what a "primus stove" is, it doesn't seem very sophisticated. Better that Muscovites "have it their way" at the local burger joint, I'd imagine. SignatureCordially, John Turco <jtur@concentric.net> Paintings Pain and Pun <http://laughatthepain.blogspot.com> > <heavily edited for brevity> > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > Better that Muscovites "have it their way" at the local burger joint, I'd > imagine. Like the famous greek "Petrogaz", named after a brand, like Xerox. It means all gas ranges, that run on a gas bottle (LPG-Liquified Petroleum Gas), which usually have two or three rings, and no oven. It was a vast improvement on the real "primus" stove, working on naptha or kerosene, and needing to pump it up every time you fired it up. So tells my mother. Or the "parastia", where you light a fire with wood (logs, small branches etc.) and cook your food, or even your coffee. SignatureTzortzakakis Dimitrios major in electrical engineering mechanized infantry reservist hordad AT otenet DOT gr > >>>>> Unfortunately, the only phonographs readily available nowadays, seem > >>>>> to be of the crude USB variety. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >> > >>> "readily available nowadays" <edited for brevity> > >>> You see, if one must scour the World Wide Web, in order to find current > >>> turntables of any adequacy -- well, then, the word "readily" need not > >>> apply! <edited> > >>> Here in the USA (until a few years ago), such electronic equipment was > >>> sold in common "brick and mortar" stores (e.g., Sears and Best Buy). <edited> > I was in Waterloo Records in Austin a few days ago and the had over 40 > turntables (several brands) boxed and stacked on the floor; I assume > they had more in their stockroom. Well, I guess a record shop >would< be a logical place, in which to find a fair range of phonograph models. > From the sound, storage space, durability and convenience standpoints, > though, I don't know why anyone would want to go back. > Allen There's no accounting for nostalgia, apparently. SignatureCordially, John Turco <jtur@concentric.net> Paintings Pain and Pun <http://laughatthepain.blogspot.com> > <edited for brevity> > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Hence, these cheap, rudimentary turntables are mainly suited > to archival purposes, and little else...audiophiles, beware! Nope. My turntable, a pro-ject debut III, is as normal a turntable as any of us 80's kids remember. Just now listening to the "1" record by the beatles. It cost 360 euros , complete with Cambridge Audio Azur 540 S moving magnet pre amp, Ortofon OM 5 MM cartridge. There are dozens of turntable manufacturers, with hundreds of models. http://www.project-audio.com/ www.cambridgeaudio.com I have a "normal" separates stereo. I do also conversion, but through the computer's sound card, with 44.1 kHz sampling and 32 bit float, results are excellent. There's a new MM preamp by NAD that has a built in USB out, for direct conversion, but it came out a couple of months after I bought my turntable:-) SignatureTzortzakakis Dimitrios major in electrical engineering mechanized infantry reservist hordad AT otenet DOT gr > > Supposed to last for 1000 years. > > So, will there be DVD readers a millenium from now? > > Hell, will there be DVD readers even 10 years from now?? 10 years, certainly. After all, DVD drives are still "backward compatible" with the venerable CD format -- and in turn, Blu-ray devices can read DVD's and CD's. SignatureCordially, John Turco <jtur@concentric.net> Paintings Pain and Pun <http://laughatthepain.blogspot.com> >> > Supposed to last for 1000 years. >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > compatible" with the venerable CD format -- and in turn, Blu-ray devices > can read DVD's and CD's. Going to ultraviolet lasers (blu-ray) is about as short of wavelength as is practical, giving the highest density in an optically read devices. I'm guessing the next wave will be some variation of flash cards with ever increasing capacity and exotic metal contacts being the challenge. >>> > Supposed to last for 1000 years. >>> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I'm guessing the next wave will be some variation of flash cards with > ever increasing capacity and exotic metal contacts being the challenge. I just read that there's a USB drive with 320 GB but it costs 890 euros. I think that optical and hard drives will be with us for a while. OTOH, who would imagine in the 80's an 8 GB thumb drive being sold for 18 euros? SignatureTzortzakakis Dimitrios major in electrical engineering mechanized infantry reservist hordad AT otenet DOT gr |
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