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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / Digital Photo / December 2009Fall Back, U.S.A!
Hello, my fellow Americans...did you remember to move all of your timepieces, back an hour? Daylight Saving Time ended, early on Sunday morning (November 1, 2009), in our country. I, personally, needed to reset my wristwatch, several clocks, various electronic devices, a number of digicams and my lone DSLR (Pentax K100D); initially, I forgot a few of the devices (including some cameras), and did them later.  SignatureCordially, John Turco <jtur@concentric.net> Paintings Pain and Pun <http://laughatthepain.blogspot.com> > Hello, my fellow Americans...did you remember to move all of your > timepieces, back an hour? Daylight Saving Time ended, early on Sunday [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > K100D); initially, I forgot a few of the devices (including some > cameras), and did them later. Fortunately almost all my clocks set themselves and even recognize the DST flag encoded by NIST, this includes all my wall clocks, the GPS, one shortwave receiver (eton E1), a couple Casio G-shock wrist watches, as well as the computer. All I'm left with is the on board timestamp clock in the Canon, and the clock in the microwave oven. > > Hello, my fellow Americans...did you remember to move all of your > > timepieces, back an hour? Daylight Saving Time ended, early on Sunday [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > well as the computer. All I'm left with is the on board timestamp clock > in the Canon, and the clock in the microwave oven. I'd only allowed my three "atomic" units (a Casio wristwatch, two SkyScan clocks and an Acurite 00594W wireless weather station) to reset themselves for DST. My main PC (running Windows XP) did the job, itself; also, XP synchronizes to a U.S. government atomic clock's Web site, every Friday, while I'm online. All of my other devices needed to be adjusted, anyway, as they'd drifted off the mark, since DST had started, in March; most of those non-atomic puppies are lacking in precision, unfortunately. SignatureCordially, John Turco <jtur@concentric.net> Paintings Pain and Pun <http://laughatthepain.blogspot.com> > My main PC (running Windows XP) did the job, itself; also, XP > synchronizes to a U.S. government atomic clock's Web site, every Friday, > while I'm online. > All of my other devices needed to be adjusted, anyway, as they'd drifted > off the mark, since DST had started, in March; most of those non-atomic > puppies are lacking in precision, unfortunately. That's why NTP exists and software using it can generate and apply adjustment terms to internal computer clocks. It's even possible to measure and counteract the drift of the hardware realtime clocks on computer mainboards. -Wolfgang >> My main PC (running Windows XP) did the job, itself; also, XP >> synchronizes to a U.S. government atomic clock's Web site, every [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > -Wolfgang NTP for Windows => http://www.meinberg.de/english/sw/ntp.htm Cheers, David >>> My main PC (running Windows XP) did the job, itself; also, XP >>> synchronizes to a U.S. government atomic clock's Web site, every [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > NTP for Windows => http://www.meinberg.de/english/sw/ntp.htm Uh, all NT-derived versions of Windows (that's NT, Windows 2000, XP, Vista, and Windows 7) have native NTP support--no need to tack some third party stuff onto them. For setting up 2K and XP, see http://tf.nist.gov/service/pdf/win2000xp.pdf. The machine I'm on now, that's running Vista Home Premium, was using NTP right out of the box. Note that Microsoft has their own ntp server, time.windows.com, presumably set up so that all the millions of windows boxen out there that come preconfigured for NTP don't bomb somebody else's server. > Cheers, > David [] >> NTP for Windows => http://www.meinberg.de/english/sw/ntp.htm > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > For setting up 2K and XP, see > http://tf.nist.gov/service/pdf/win2000xp.pdf. Most Windows out-of-the-box do not have NTP, instead they have an SNTP client, which by default syncs once a week to a single server in the US. So between syncs the PC could be minutes out! NTP is a much more sophisticated protocol than SNTP, which not only alters the clock time, decides between multiple available servers on the basis of their timekeeping performance, but compensates for clock rate variations as well. Microsoft's "NTP" does not conform to the NTP protocol, and does not interwork with the standard NTP tools. For example, one cannot attach reference clocks like radio or GPS sources to it. > The machine I'm on now, that's running Vista Home Premium, was using NTP > right out of the box. Note that Microsoft has their own ntp server, > time.windows.com, presumably set up so that all the millions of windows > boxen out there that come preconfigured for NTP don't bomb somebody > else's > server. How well does time.windows.com work? As it doesn't respond to NTP query commands, one cannot tell. If the timekeeping you get is good enough for you, that's fine, but if you want accurate timekeeping - say to within couple of seconds - Microsoft's "NTP" is simply not good enough, and we have to be grateful to folk like those at Meinberg who have made it possible to run a port of the standard NTP software on Windows. Cheers, David > [] >>> NTP for Windows => http://www.meinberg.de/english/sw/ntp.htm [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > Meinberg who have made it possible to run a port of the standard NTP > software on Windows. Why the confrontational attitude? Did Bill Gates run over your dog or something? [] > Why the confrontational attitude? Did Bill Gates run over your dog or > something? Sorry it comes across like that, it's not intended to as such. It's just that Windows does not include NTP, at least as far as the protocol authors understand it, and that /far/ better performance and management can be obtained with the free Windows port of the reference implementation. As I indicated, if you are happy with what you have, that's fine, but please don't call it NTP because it isn't. No multiple servers, no comparison of server quality, no reference clocks, no network management tools etc. etc. Cheers, David > Why the confrontational attitude? Did Bill Gates run over your dog or > something? The amount of damage done by Microsoft is very hard to describe or to understand, as everyone seems used to the flaws and regards them as either facts of life or totally normal and expected. It's as if the whole world was used to unsharp, washed out 4x6 prints with terrible barrel distortions --- and regarding a beautiful 8x12 print of high quality as "too large, too sharp, overly neon coloured, looking strange and unnatural" and so on. And you cannot get through to these people, and those you get through just say, "Well, it's not good, but you must learn to live with it ..." So when someone tells us that Microsoft does NTP when in fact it does something incompatible, vastly inferior, with single points of failure and no sanity checks and so on and so on and so on, how should one react to yet another assault on sanity and senibility? It's not like sorely tried patience is endless ... -Wolfgang >> Why the confrontational attitude? Did Bill Gates run over your dog or >> something? [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > how should one react to yet another assault on sanity and > senibility? It's not like sorely tried patience is endless ... Yeah, hallelugha. SignatureW . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est ---^----^--------------------------------------------------------------- > > My main PC (running Windows XP) did the job, itself; also, XP > > synchronizes to a U.S. government atomic clock's Web site, every Friday, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > -Wolfgang Clarification: By "non-atomic puppies," I'd simply meant my regular clocks and wristwatches, which all lack computer interfaces. SignatureCordially, John Turco <jtur@concentric.net> Paintings Pain and Pun <http://laughatthepain.blogspot.com> > Hello, my fellow Americans...did you remember to move all of your > timepieces, back [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > initially, I forgot > a few of the devices (including some cameras), and did them later. I leave my cameras on UTC - much other stuff is automatic these days. Cheers, David >> Hello, my fellow Americans...did you remember to move all of your >> timepieces, back [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >Cheers, >David I leave my camera on Eastern (U.S.) Standard Time. > > Hello, my fellow Americans...did you remember to move all of your > > timepieces, back an hour? Daylight Saving Time ended, early on [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Cheers, > David Oh, I don't know how DST applies to your homeland (Scotland), or to Britain in general. I was just making a "public service" announcement, reminding Americans to adjust their digital cameras, if necessary. Naturally, some people hijacked this thread and turned it into a debate over the pros and cons of DST! That goes right along with the raging controversies concerning politics, religion, anarchism, driving habits and numerous other blatantly non-photographic issues. SignatureCordially, John Turco <jtur@concentric.net> Paintings Pain and Pun <http://laughatthepain.blogspot.com> [] > Oh, I don't know how DST applies to your homeland (Scotland), or to > Britain in general. I was just making a "public service" announcement, > reminding Americans to adjust their digital cameras, if necessary. Yes, there is a summer-time/winter-time adjustment throughout Europe, although on a different weekend to the US. I choose /not/ to adjust my camera. > Naturally, some people hijacked this thread and turned it into a debate > over the pros and cons of DST! That goes right along with the raging > controversies concerning politics, religion, anarchism, driving habits > and numerous other blatantly non-photographic issues. Always happens, John! Cheers, David > Hello, my fellow Americans...did you remember to move all of your > timepieces, back [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I forgot > a few of the devices (including some cameras), and did them later. Hi John! I'm a fellow Canadian, but thanks anyway. I thought of everything ... except the cameras ;-))) DONE! Thanks, Marcel > > Hello, my fellow Americans...did you remember to move all of your > > timepieces, back an hour? Daylight Saving Time ended, early on Sunday [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Thanks, > Marcel You're most welcomed, my fellow North American. SignatureCordially, John Turco <jtur@concentric.net> Paintings Pain and Pun <http://laughatthepain.blogspot.com> > Hello, my fellow Americans...did you remember to move all of your > timepieces, back an hour? Daylight Saving Time ended, early on Sunday [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > K100D); initially, I forgot a few of the devices (including some > cameras), and did them later. Another four million man-hours down the crapper! > Another four million man-hours down the crapper! I think you underestimate by an order of magnitude or more. >> Another four million man-hours down the crapper! > > I think you underestimate by an order of magnitude or more. Just a quick back of the envelope thing - you're probably right. >>> Another four million man-hours down the crapper! >> >> I think you underestimate by an order of magnitude or more. > >Just a quick back of the envelope thing - you're probably right. Before time can be considered to be wasted, you have to determine that the time would be otherwise better spent on some more useful activity. If it takes a person five minutes to change the necessary clocks, and if that person would have spent those five minutes watching Jerry Springer or Oprah if there wasn't a need to change the clocks, then there is no waste. If the person multi-tasks, as most of us do, while changing the clocks, there is no wasted time. Who here didn't have time to do something important Sunday because they had to divert that time to changing the clocks? Don't all raise your hands at once. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>>> Another four million man-hours down the crapper! >>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Don't all raise your hands at once. Wait til they get to work! > Who here didn't have time to do something important Sunday because they > had to divert that time to changing the clocks? My clocks all set themselves, leaving me free to do the nothing of importance stuff that happens at that time of the morning. >> Who here didn't have time to do something important Sunday because they >> had to divert that time to changing the clocks? > > My clocks all set themselves, leaving me free to do the nothing of > importance stuff that happens at that time of the morning. So you either don't live in an area doomed by DST, or you don't own a camera, microwave oven, car with a clock, long case clock, or watch. SignatureRegards, Savageduck >>> Who here didn't have time to do something important Sunday because >>> they had to divert that time to changing the clocks? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > So you either don't live in an area doomed by DST, or you don't own a > camera, microwave oven, car with a clock, long case clock, or watch. SoCal is indeed plagued with DST, and I did have to set the microwave at a later non-critical time. The G-Shock 'solar-atomic' watches both set themselves. ...and the Canon will get updated whenever I'm in the mood, I don't use the EXIF anyway. > If it takes a person five minutes to change the necessary clocks, and > if that person would have spent those five minutes watching Jerry > Springer or Oprah if there wasn't a need to change the clocks, then > there is no waste. If the person multi-tasks, as most of us do, while > changing the clocks, there is no wasted time. But almost no one can multi-task that just think theyv can, what a person does is time-slice adn proiratorise even teh eye does that as only about 15% of our total vision is active at any one point the brain captutes the view then the eye scans another area and captures that and the brain joins it and pretends it's one picture, which is how and why magitians can perform their tricks. They use this time-slicing to make sure we don;t 'see' what they are doing. > Who here didn't have time to do something important Sunday because > they had to divert that time to changing the clocks? > > Don't all raise your hands at once. Nah most of mine change themselves, the others I do when I have 'free time' ;-) In there's one that I don't change from year to year. >> If it takes a person five minutes to change the necessary clocks, and >> if that person would have spent those five minutes watching Jerry [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >their tricks. >They use this time-slicing to make sure we don;t 'see' what they are doing. When I say "multi-task", I don't mean re-setting the clocks and doing neurosurgery at the same time. I can watch a football game on TV as I reset the clocks and I'm multi-tasking. >> Who here didn't have time to do something important Sunday because >> they had to divert that time to changing the clocks? >> >> Don't all raise your hands at once. > >Nah most of mine change themselves, the others I do when I have 'free time' I have no clocks that re-set themselves. I have clock displays in electronic devices - computer, telephone, cable box, etc - that self-adjust, but my alarm clocks and wall clocks don't. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>> If it takes a person five minutes to change the necessary clocks, and >>> if that person would have spent those five minutes watching Jerry [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > neurosurgery at the same time. I can watch a football game on TV as I > reset the clocks and I'm multi-tasking. That's still not multi-tasking. And if you are resetiing the closck you usully have to watch at least one digit change and while you're watching that you can;t be watching the football. You might think you're watching it in the same way you might think you're watching a magitains every move while they do a card trick on you. >>> Who here didn't have time to do something important Sunday because >>> they had to divert that time to changing the clocks? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > electronic devices - computer, telephone, cable box, etc - that > self-adjust, but my alarm clocks and wall clocks don't. Pity, I've even brought wall clocks for work that re-set themselves, they receive a time signal and the hands move forward in large increments until the time is reached. In theory this also keeps then accurate. >> When I say "multi-task", I don't mean re-setting the clocks and doing >> neurosurgery at the same time. I can watch a football game on TV as I [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >watching >a magitains every move while they do a card trick on you. Have you ever watched a football game on TV? Ninety percent of the time there's nothing happening to watch. It's the plays that happen in the other ten percent of the time that keep us interested. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>> When I say "multi-task", I don't mean re-setting the clocks and doing >>> neurosurgery at the same time. I can watch a football game on TV as I [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> > Have you ever watched a football game on TV? I try not to, > Ninety percent of the > time there's nothing happening to watch. It's the plays that happen > in the other ten percent of the time that keep us interested. Rarely keeps me interested, but there are some interesting moments but they don;t always include football. >>>> When I say "multi-task", I don't mean re-setting the clocks and doing >>>> neurosurgery at the same time. I can watch a football game on TV as I [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >don;t always >include football. I think Tony means American Football... not Football or Aussie Rules Football or Rugby Football Union which are faster games with fewer pauses. However in another photographic forum some one was asking what he should charge for getting two pictures of a US Football game for the local paper (a 16 page weekly) . He said he was not intending to stay for the whole game just long enough to get a couple of good photos...... He went berserk (usual rant and swearing at the rest of us and his worst photos would be better than our best etc) when it was pointed out you would have to stay for the whole match as you never knew when the good action would occur. For some one taking pictures for a newspaper you want to be at the match ( a small local affair) about an hour before to an hour after. The Hot dog stand catching fire would be a good photo if not page 1 or 2 for the paper. :-) Signature\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ >>>>> When I say "multi-task", I don't mean re-setting the clocks and doing >>>>> neurosurgery at the same time. I can watch a football game on TV as I [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > dog stand catching fire would be a good photo if not page 1 or 2 for the > paper. :-) I was planning on doing a gig photos for a friends band, but it was the other side of London so I decided to give it a miss, pity really as I found out that a member of another band accidentally (through stupidity) sprayed foam on to the bass players suit. The other guitarist decide that this was outa-order so jumped up on stage and punched him in the face starting a fight, that'd made some great band photography specially as my fiends band has now been banned from that venue. <edited for brevity> > However in another photographic forum some one was asking what he should > charge for getting two pictures of a US Football game for the local [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > dog stand catching fire would be a good photo if not page 1 or 2 for the > paper. :-) Here in the U.S.A., our sports teams (football, et el) play >games<, not "matches." Besides, playing with matches is dangerous! SignatureCordially, John Turco <jtur@concentric.net> Paintings Pain and Pun <http://laughatthepain.blogspot.com> > "whisky-dave" >>> When I say "multi-task", I don't mean re-setting the clocks and doing [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >time there's nothing happening to watch. It's the plays that happen >in the other ten percent of the time that keep us interested. 10%? I don't think so. 2% maybe. :-) (But then I like baseball) SignatureRay Fischer rfischer@sonic.net <edited for brevity> > >Have you ever watched a football game on TV? Ninety percent of the > >time there's nothing happening to watch. It's the plays that happen [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > (But then I like baseball) In that case, the amount of real action drops to .02%. SignatureCordially, John Turco <jtur@concentric.net> Paintings Pain and Pun <http://laughatthepain.blogspot.com> > >> When I say "multi-task", I don't mean re-setting the clocks and doing > >> neurosurgery at the same time. I can watch a football game on TV as I [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > time there's nothing happening to watch. It's the plays that happen > in the other ten percent of the time that keep us interested. Being a Britisher, I believe that "whisky-dave" actually meant soccer, instead of North American "gridiron" football. SignatureCordially, John Turco <jtur@concentric.net> Paintings Pain and Pun <http://laughatthepain.blogspot.com> > Hello, my fellow Americans...did you remember to move all of > your [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > some > cameras), and did them later. As someone living in a country where DST is not used, I have never been able to understand the logic behind the practice or how it's considered to be worth all the disruption and adjustments it makes necessary. By adjustments, I mean not just the twice-a-year resetting of clocks, but also adjusting life (personal, business, time-critical management, etc.) to the new timings. But I'm not blindly criticising something I don't understand. I'm open to enlightenment. >> Hello, my fellow Americans...did you remember to move all of >> your [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > timings. But I'm not blindly criticising something I don't > understand. I'm open to enlightenment. The idea is that in summer (because Winter time is closer to true time) more evening activities can take place in daylight. In other words, this takes daylight hours in the very early morning (when most people are still asleep) and puts them in the evening. Of course, if the offices of government and big companies, schools, daycare centers, shops, all started the day at 7am and finished it at 4pm, this would have about the same effect. SignatureBertrand >>> Hello, my fellow Americans...did you remember to move all of your >>> timepieces, back an hour? Daylight Saving Time ended, early on Sunday [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > daycare centers, shops, all started the day at 7am and finished it at 4pm, > this would have about the same effect. Hello guys. The UK first used Summer Time during World War One to help to increase productivity. The UK also tried to keep on Summer Time all through the winter. Nice experiment but not liked by those who voiced their opinion. > Hello guys. > > The UK first used Summer Time during World War One to help to increase > productivity. I thought the most recent excuse for todays time change was something to do with kids going to school o the dark and accidents when driving . > The UK also tried to keep on Summer Time all through the winter. Nice > experiment but not liked by those who voiced their opinion. I only discovered a couple of weeks ago thatr india has 1/2 hour times zones i.e not 24 hours but and extra increment. I discovered this using Apples world clock on New Delhi where my friend is currently staying. I'd always thought that time zones were all 1 hour steps. >> As someone living in a country where DST is not used, I have >> never been able to understand the logic behind the practice or [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > it at > 4pm, this would have about the same effect. That's what's done over here. As the days grow shorter with the approach of winter, working hours are simply shortened, usually from mid-October. Government office timings are changed from 9-5 to 9:30-4, and revert to 9-5 in spring. Businesses also make similar adjustments. I feel that this causes fewer complications than DST. >>> Hello, my fellow Americans...did you remember to move all of >>> your [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >daycare centers, shops, all started the day at 7am and finished it at >4pm, this would have about the same effect. They started changing the time for switchover recently to save ENERGY. That has put more students in the dark. I liked the change overall. greg >>>> Hello, my fellow Americans...did you remember to move all of >>>> your [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >They started changing the time for switchover recently to save ENERGY. >That has put more students in the dark. I liked the change overall. I might add, light until 9:30 PM in the summer is wonderfull. Its even brighter on the west coast USA. Dark at 6:00 sucks. greg >>In article <4aef0d78$0$23472$426a74cc@news.free.fr>, >>o.f.n.u.t.s@la.poste.net [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > greg So in the winter we change back so it gets dark earlier - makes sense > By adjustments, I mean not just > the twice-a-year resetting of clocks, but also adjusting life > (personal, business, time-critical management, etc.) to the new > timings. It's no different than moving to another time zone one hour off. Nothing changes except the clocks. Fall-back is my favorite day of the year. You get an extra hour to do with as you please! Signaturem-m http://www.mhmyers.com >> Hello, my fellow Americans...did you remember to move all of your >> timepieces, back an hour? Daylight Saving Time ended, early on Sunday [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > to the new timings. But I'm not blindly criticising something I don't > understand. I'm open to enlightenment. No logic to it at all. It's claimed it saves energy, but a study in Indiana (a 'split' state) showed that to be totally bogus. It's psychological - that's all. And a huge waste of resources, resetting all the damned clocks twice a year. It should certainly be abolished - would make life simpler all the way around. >>> Hello, my fellow Americans...did you remember to move all of your >>> timepieces, back an hour? Daylight Saving Time ended, early on Sunday [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >the damned clocks twice a year. It should certainly be abolished - would >make life simpler all the way around. I reset two automobile clocks, two alarm clocks, one wrist-watch, and one wall clock yesterday. It took about as much resources to do as sneezing. It's far less complicated than figuring out if the Customer Service phones will be answered by companies in other time zones when I'm making calls early in the morning or late afternoon. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>>> Hello, my fellow Americans...did you remember to move all of your >>>> timepieces, back an hour? Daylight Saving Time ended, early on Sunday [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > one wall clock yesterday. It took about as much resources to do as > sneezing. Great - now multiply the time it took to do it by 300,000,000 people in the US. And don't forget the microwave, the oven, the VCR, . . . > It's far less complicated than figuring out if the Customer Service > phones will be answered by companies in other time zones when I'm making > calls early in the morning or late afternoon. Particularly when you don't know if they're in Arizona, California or New Mexico (for example) all of whom have different ideas of the time. As I understand the Chinese get around the whole damned problem by having one time zone for the entire country. > Great - now multiply the time it took to do it by 300,000,000 people in > the US. And don't forget the microwave, the oven, the VCR, . . . But you don;t need to change the microwave, or cooker time do you ? Cokoing time doesn't change depending oin time of year. VCR yes if you still have such an antique device my DVD recorder changes itself ;-) >> It's far less complicated than figuring out if the Customer Service >> phones will be answered by companies in other time zones when I'm making [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > understand the Chinese get around the whole damned problem by having one > time zone for the entire country. And India splits it in to 30 min times zones. >> Great - now multiply the time it took to do it by 300,000,000 people >> in the US. And don't forget the microwave, the oven, the VCR, . . . [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > VCR yes if you still have such an antique device my DVD recorder > changes itself ;-) Yes, you do have to set the microwave--it has a clock, if you don't reset it then you're going to look at it one day forgetting that you didn't reset it and end up missing an important appointment. The real pisser is the idiots changing the date, so that some things now need to be reset _four_ times, twice when official change occurs, and twice more to unset the change that was programmed into them at the factory using the old dates. And no, they don't all have USB ports. >>> It's far less complicated than figuring out if the Customer Service >>> phones will be answered by companies in other time zones when I'm [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > And India splits it in to 30 min times zones. >>> Great - now multiply the time it took to do it by 300,000,000 people >>> in the US. And don't forget the microwave, the oven, the VCR, . . . [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > twice more to unset the change that was programmed into them at the > factory using the old dates. And no, they don't all have USB ports. A real corker for me is the older digital clocks that can only be set back an hour by advancing it 23 hours. >>>> It's far less complicated than figuring out if the Customer Service >>>> phones will be answered by companies in other time zones when I'm [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> >> And India splits it in to 30 min times zones. >>>> Great - now multiply the time it took to do it by 300,000,000 >>>> people in the US. And don't forget the microwave, the oven, the [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > A real corker for me is the older digital clocks that can only be set > back an hour by advancing it 23 hours. Yep. The next time they mess with the daylight savings time they need to put in a provision that no legislator may instruct a family member or staffer to reset his clocks, he must do it for himself. Maybe if they have to set their own clocks they'll figure out what a pain in the butt it is. What we really need is a constitutional amendment stating that any legislation that a reasonable man considers to be a pain in the a.s is null and void. > The next time they mess with the daylight savings time they > need to [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > a.s > is null and void. I would have thought that the physical task of setting clocks is a passing and relatively minor inconvenience. I expect that someone unused to DST would experience a more extended period of adjusting one's biological clock, rather like jet lag. You suddenly have to get to work an hour early while the clock says that it's still the same 9 AM. I also wonder about the amount of adjustments necessary to certain things that have to be scheduled according to the actual passage of time. Like medication that has to be taken at strictly spaced intervals. And is the daily evening flight changed from 7 pm on October 31st to 6 pm the next day? The collective workload and the psychological adjustments needed must be enormous. >I would have thought that the physical task of setting clocks is >a passing and relatively minor inconvenience. I expect that >someone unused to DST would experience a more extended period of >adjusting one's biological clock, rather like jet lag. You >suddenly have to get to work an hour early while the clock says >that it's still the same 9 AM. That is my main problem with DST. My biological clock is set to standard time, and I'm an insomniac. All DST means to me is that I spend a good chunk of the year on (an even larger) sleep deficit since I have to get up an hour earlier than I would otherwise, and I never seem to adjust to it. >>I would have thought that the physical task of setting clocks is >>a passing and relatively minor inconvenience. I expect that [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I have to get up an hour earlier than I would otherwise, and I never > seem to adjust to it. Amen! >>>I would have thought that the physical task of setting clocks is >>>a passing and relatively minor inconvenience. I expect that [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Amen! Glad to know there are some fellow sufferers! >>>> I would have thought that the physical task of setting clocks is >>>> a passing and relatively minor inconvenience. I expect that [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Glad to know there are some fellow sufferers! You can add me to your list. I f.cking hate DST! SignatureW . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est ---^----^--------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> I would have thought that the physical task of setting >>>>> clocks is [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > You can add me to your list. I f.cking hate DST! Now that's an unequivocal statement :-) This thread has been an eye opener. The number of posters represents a tiny percentage of those who have to live with DST, but still, I'm quite surprised at the overwhelming majority of anti-DST posts. It's gratifying in a way because it indicates that I have not simply been too obtuse to see how the benefits of DST outweigh its disadvantages. >>>>>> I would have thought that the physical task of setting >>>>>> clocks is [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >in a way because it indicates that I have not simply been too >obtuse to see how the benefits of DST outweigh its disadvantages. Just to present a view on the other side, I'm in favor of DST. The clock-changing aspect is a inconsequential inconvenience compared to the benefit of an additional hour of daylight recreation. Golf after work, for example. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>>>>>> I would have thought that the physical task of setting >>>>>>> clocks is [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >the benefit of an additional hour of daylight recreation. Golf after >work, for example. Well, as I indicated in my earlier post, the clock changing aspect has nothing to do with it from my perspective. For me it's a matter of feeling like hell for most of the DST period. > On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 23:41:56 +0530, "mianileng" > <mianileng@invalid.com> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > after > work, for example. I expected that there would be those in favor of DST, otherwise it would have been abolished long ago. I respect your right to have a viewpoint that differs from mine, and I indicated in an earlier post that I consider the clock-setting aspect to be a relatively minor part of the overall consequences of DST. However, the rescheduling of working and leisure hours in actual time (not clock time) can be done, and *is* done in many countries, simply by notification. I guess it's something like an acquired taste for certain foods. You get to like it after you've become accustomed to it, while others never get used to it. I do feel, however, that if an otherwise intelligent and civilized person who's never had to keep time were to be suddenly forced to choose between the two systems, he'd go for no DST. >> On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 23:41:56 +0530, "mianileng" >> <mianileng@invalid.com> [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >time (not clock time) can be done, and *is* done in many >countries, As a former owner of a business, there's no way that I would want to change the business's hours during the year. In the different countries I've visited, *all* of the business's have traditional hours and early closing days, but they are based on years of tradition. >simply by notification. I guess it's something like an >acquired taste for certain foods. You get to like it after you've [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >civilized person who's never had to keep time were to be suddenly >forced to choose between the two systems, he'd go for no DST. What do you think happened in the US? At some point in the past, the decision to opt for DST or not to was made. More places did than didn't. It was local option. The original concept was Benjamin Franklin's, by the way. Some here have mentioned trouble because their sleep patterns are disturbed. How do these people travel to different time zones and survive? They would not want to be elected as a congressman from some state on a different time zone than Washington because of the need to travel back and forth from DC to their home state. On the trips I've made to other time zones, my sleep pattern has never suffered. However, my stomach stays on my own time for several days. Not so much a problem staying in the US, but trips to Europe and Africa have resulted in being hungry at odd hours. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>> Great - now multiply the time it took to do it by 300,000,000 people >>> in the US. And don't forget the microwave, the oven, the VCR, . . . [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > it > and end up missing an important appointment. No I am not, I hardly look at the clock(s), same with my oven clock. I tend not to be in the kitchen when I need to know what the time is for an important appointment. If I'm in the kitchijngn the clock is used to tell me how many minutes I'm nuking my food for. Most peole I know if you ask them the time they'll get their mobile phone out, not say hang on I'll just go in to the kitcen. :) > The real pisser is the idiots changing the date, so that some things now > need to be reset _four_ times, twice when official change occurs, and [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >> >> And India splits it in to 30 min times zones. >> Great - now multiply the time it took to do it by 300,000,000 people in >> the US. And don't forget the microwave, the oven, the VCR, . . . > > But you don;t need to change the microwave, or cooker time do you ? > Cokoing time doesn't change depending oin time of year. VCR yes if you > still have such an antique device my DVD recorder changes itself ;-) Well, you don't NEED to change any of the damned things. I routinely leave my watch set as it is and mentally subtract an hour (or is it add one?) during the summer. But equally obviously, if they'd leave the system alone no one would need to change a damned thing! >>> It's far less complicated than figuring out if the Customer Service >>> phones will be answered by companies in other time zones when I'm [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > And India splits it in to 30 min times zones. [] > Well, you don't NEED to change any of the damned things. I routinely > leave my watch set as it is and mentally subtract an hour (or is it add > one?) during the summer. But equally obviously, if they'd leave the > system alone no one would need to change a damned thing! ... and try to have a good apology for when you're an hour late, and miss the flight, or meeting your lady! <G> A risky policy....in other words. An hour early and you could take some photos! Cheers, David As someone living in a country where DST is not used, I have never been able to understand the logic behind the practice or how it's considered to be worth all the disruption and adjustments it makes necessary. By adjustments, I mean not just the twice-a-year resetting of clocks, but also adjusting life (personal, business, time-critical management, etc.) to the new timings. But I'm not blindly criticising something I don't understand. I'm open to enlightenment. On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 04:14:06 -0800 (PST), ?????????????? ?????????????? wrote: > As someone living in a country where DST is not used, I have > never been able to understand the logic behind the practice ... Just as you never understood the logic behind proper quoting on usenet. > "ray" <ray@zianet.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > And India splits it in to 30 min times zones. Actually, India uses a uniform standard time throughout the country, 5 1/2 hours ahead of UT. It's much smaller than the USA but it's still a pretty large country. Between where I live on the eastern side and Mumbai in the west, there's a 20° difference and almost 1 1/2 hrs in local solar times. It's about 30° and 2 hrs between the two extreme ends of the country. > > "ray" <ray@zianet.com> wrote in message > >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > and almost 1 1/2 hrs in local solar times. It's about 30° and 2 > hrs between the two extreme ends of the country. Yes, India is smaller than the U.S., geographically; whereas, the former nation has a much larger population. SignatureCordially, John Turco <jtur@concentric.net> Paintings Pain and Pun <http://laughatthepain.blogspot.com> >> Great - now multiply the time it took to do it by 300,000,000 people in >> the US. And don't forget the microwave, the oven, the VCR, . . . > >But you don;t need to change the microwave, or cooker time do you ? >Cokoing time doesn't change depending oin time of year. If you set it to cook your food 1 hour before you get home, you do. Or warm last-night's coffee just before you get up. (Doesn't anyone talk about cameras and photography anymore?) >VCR yes if you still have such an antique device my DVD recorder changes >itself ;-) [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >And India splits it in to 30 min times zones. >> Great - now multiply the time it took to do it by 300,000,000 people in >> the US. And don't forget the microwave, the oven, the VCR, . . . [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >VCR yes if you still have such an antique device my DVD recorder changes >itself ;-) You want the clock on the microwave oven to be correct if you use any type of automatic timed cooking. >>> It's far less complicated than figuring out if the Customer Service >>> phones will be answered by companies in other time zones when I'm making [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >And India splits it in to 30 min times zones. >>> Hello, my fellow Americans...did you remember to move all of your >>> timepieces, back an hour? Daylight Saving Time ended, early on Sunday [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >the damned clocks twice a year. It should certainly be abolished - would >make life simpler all the way around. Maybe it doesnt matter to the piss a.s small northeastern US states, but it matters alot to those who live in the large mountain western states like Utah, Nevada, Colorado etc... >No logic to it at all. It's claimed it saves energy, but a study in >Indiana (a 'split' state) showed that to be totally bogus. Not so. The study was done by a team from the University of California, Santa Barbara. It showed an increase in the use of electricity. Many people claimed that this demonstrates that the energy saving claims were bogus based on this. However, the study didn't take into account the increased use of home air conditioners. They compared the southwest corner of Indiana (no dst) with the rest of the state. The area was, except for Evansville, a rural area. It was taken at a time when new homes were being built with central air and older houses were adding window units. Air conditioners, in that era, were not "energy efficient". It was the study that was bogus. Any "scientific" study that doesn't take something this obvious into account is without merit. I grew up in Indiana, and never lived in an air conditioned house. The first time I lived in an air conditioned house in Indiana is when I moved back there in 1966. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >> No logic to it at all. It's claimed it saves energy, but a study in >> Indiana (a 'split' state) showed that to be totally bogus. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > The first time I lived in an air conditioned house in Indiana is when > I moved back there in 1966. I'd like to see the supporting evidence for the claim that the difference in energy consumption for two adjacent areas was due to increased use of air conditioners in _one_ of them. >>> No logic to it at all. It's claimed it saves energy, but a study in >>> Indiana (a 'split' state) showed that to be totally bogus. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >energy consumption for two adjacent areas was due to increased use of air >conditioners in _one_ of them. You aren't thinking it out. The figures for pre-change to DST and post-change were compared. Energy consumption increased post-change in both areas, but at a lesser rate in the area that didn't change. The southwest corner of Indiana that did not change is mostly rural and small towns. The largest population center is Evansville. The rest of Indiana contains larger cities and areas where the population was growing. More new homes, more affluent areas, and more modernization. Hence, more air conditioning units installed. The study made no attempt to track data in comparable areas. Had the study been limited to the southwest part of Indiana, and just the southeast part of Indiana, it would have been a more reliable indicator. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida snip >As someone living in a country where DST is not used, I have >never been able to understand the logic behind the practice or >how it's considered to be worth all the disruption and >adjustments it makes necessary. snip Believe me, many of us who live in countries (well, in the U.S. at any rate) that have DST don't get it either. Supposedly by allowing for more daylight in the afternoons and evenings, people use less resources on indoor lighting, etc. But most studies of actual usage have shown that this is not really the case. > snip > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > resources on indoor lighting, etc. But most studies of actual usage > have shown that this is not really the case. It's the silliest idea yet, in a world of silly ideas. During a part of WWII we had _double_ DST, One-hour advance at all times, and, if I recall correctly, two-hour change in summer. I remember I was in my high school band and we had marching practice before school began. Flashlights, anyone? A really crazy mess at one time: in 1955 and 1956 I was in Pittsburgh slowing the takeover of the US steel industry by the Koreans. At that time in Pennsylvania DSL was a local option by township. For those who don't know, a township is a tract of land four miles by four miles square. This led to such things as bars across the street from each other, or even possibly next to each other, having different closing times. If we are going to continue this mess, every little speck of the US should be required to participate. There is an old story about an old man saying that it was like cutting a foot-wide strip off a blanket and sewing it on the other end. Allen > Hello, my fellow Americans...did you remember to move all of your > timepieces, back [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > initially, I forgot > a few of the devices (including some cameras), and did them later. Damn. I forgot to reset my Nikon F. Oh, wait. It doesn't have a clock. Or a battery. Or a sensor. Just uses whatever's newest. Like Ektar. And Velvia. And whatever's left of my Kodachrome. SignatureMichael Yet another reason why I'm glad I live in Arizona. We don't change. > Hello, my fellow Americans...did you remember to move all of your > timepieces, back [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I forgot > a few of the devices (including some cameras), and did them later. > Hello, my fellow Americans...did you remember to move all of your > timepieces, back [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > initially, I forgot > a few of the devices (including some cameras), and did them later. We move around so much that I may just set my clocks to Zulu and be done with it. SignatureWaddling Eagle World Famous Flight Instructor |
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