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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / Digital Photo / January 2007Help, I need your feedback!
Hey guys, I work for a software company and we’re making a we based product that lets you manage your photography business/studi online. Essentially the product has scheduling, contacts, invoicing reports, sales and preview software, and a bunch of other things bu you get the idea. Oh, and I think it looks absolutely gorgeous but might be a little biased What I need to know is what features would you, as a photographer, lov to see? For example, would you want to be able to use it on your cel phone? Would you want your background image to be a flickr group tha changes daily? Would you want a built in rss reader so you could rea photography articles in your spare time? What would be valuable to yo or just plain fun? -- JenniS Hey guys, I work for a software company and we’re making a we based > product that lets you manage your photography business/studi online. > Essentially the product has scheduling, contacts, invoicing reports, sales > and preview software, and a bunch of other things bu you get the idea. Oh, > and I think it looks absolutely gorgeous but might be a little > biased What I need to know is what features would you, as a photographer, > lov to see? For example, would you want to be able to use it on your > cel phone? Would you want your background image to be a flickr group > tha changes daily? Would you want a built in rss reader so you could > rea photography articles in your spare time? What would be valuable to > yo or just plain fun? -- JenniS One thing we would want to see is for you to post using a usenet capable piece of software that doesn't use all sorts of illegal characters.  SignatureYou need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence. -- Charles A. Beard > One thing we would want to see is for you to post using a usenet > capable piece of software that doesn't use all sorts of illegal > characters. I've been scratching my head over this one; what do you mean by illegal characters? Thanks! >> One thing we would want to see is for you to post using a usenet >> capable piece of software that doesn't use all sorts of illegal >> characters. > > I've been scratching my head over this one; what do you mean by illegal > characters? Thanks! Perhaps the "we’re" in the OP > >> One thing we would want to see is for you to post using a usenet > >> capable piece of software that doesn't use all sorts of illegal [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Perhaps the "we’re" in the OP No, that's just a misformed html-rendering of a high-bit character. I was referring to all the empty square boxes that are disoplayed instead of the non-legal 7 bit characters for which all newsservers by convention are required to process - yes, many (most) do 8-bit characters, but not all, and they can get stripped en route. The original article (and my reply) had many illegal characters (which showed up as the "empty box" character that many fonts use for an unrecongnized charater, and that appeared at places that one would expect a <LF> character or a <CR><LF> combination. I can't copy-paste them here, because my software is smart enough to not accept them as legal characters that can be entered by typing or pasting, but it DID copy them in the quoted text when I did a "Reply". Perhaps yours is stripping them out on your end. Here's what it looked like: <http://www.nwconcessions.com/characters.jpg> SignatureYou need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence. -- Charles A. Beard > > >> One thing we would want to see is for you to post using a usenet > > >> capable piece of software that doesn't use all sorts of illegal [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Perhaps yours is stripping them out on your end. Here's what it looked > like: <http://www.nwconcessions.com/characters.jpg> Yes, except for the previously mentioned <we’re> the post appears perfectly normal on my computer. For what it's worth. <shrug> >> >> One thing we would want to see is for you to post using a usenet >> >> capable piece of software that doesn't use all sorts of illegal [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >No, that's just a misformed html-rendering of a high-bit character. I And that was embedded in the file, rather than being an artifact of font/display issues with a newsreader. >was referring to all the empty square boxes that are disoplayed instead >of the non-legal 7 bit characters for which all newsservers by >convention are required to process - yes, many (most) do 8-bit >characters, but not all, and they can get stripped en route. Empty squares are indicative that the font being used does not have a character defined for the numerical code. >The original article (and my reply) had many illegal characters (which >showed up as the "empty box" character that many fonts use for an >unrecongnized charater, and that appeared at places that one would >expect a <LF> character or a <CR><LF> combination. This is interesting... I've downloaded the body of that article from both news.newsguy.com and news.supernews (directly, using telnet to access the NNTP server, not through a news reader), and what I get has no high bit characters. But... the headers for that article says the article has *1* line. Clearly it has more... I note that your Line: header also does not match the line count in the article. This suggests that the article began life with something wrong (which would appear to be having high bits set on at least NL characters), and that at least one server is filtering those before passing it on. It is possible that both Newsguy and Supernews are filtering, but more likely that they get it from a common server that has done that. The Path: headers show that they both got the article from "postnews.google.com", and a quick check on google seems to indicate no high bit characters (I'm not sure I can really tell, using google groups though). What does the Path: header for that article look like from your NNTP server? Here is what Newsguy shows: Path: news1.newsguy.com!extra.newsguy.com!postnews.google.com! news4.google.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com! local01.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.newsgroupbanter.com! news.newsgroupbanter.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Do you have either google or giganews in the path to your server? SignatureFloyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson> Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com > >> >> One thing we would want to see is for you to post using a usenet > >> >> capable piece of software that doesn't use all sorts of illegal [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > And that was embedded in the file, rather than being an artifact of > font/display issues with a newsreader. Right. > >was referring to all the empty square boxes that are disoplayed instead > >of the non-legal 7 bit characters for which all newsservers by [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Empty squares are indicative that the font being used does not have > a character defined for the numerical code. As I noted after a followup question. > >The original article (and my reply) had many illegal characters (which > >showed up as the "empty box" character that many fonts use for an [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > telnet to access the NNTP server, not through a news reader), > and what I get has no high bit characters. See <http://www.nwconcessions.com/characters.jpg> for a screenshot of what it looked like on my end. > But... the headers for that article says the article has *1* > line. Clearly it has more... [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > characters), and that at least one server is filtering those > before passing it on. That's what it looks like - high bit filtering, and the patterning makes it look like it's either on <LF> or <CR> or both - neither of which should EVER be sent with the high-bit on. At least not for news. > It is possible that both Newsguy and Supernews are filtering, > but more likely that they get it from a common server that has > done that. I agree - both of them DO pass 8-bit characters just fine, as do _most_ news servers - but not all. > The Path: headers show that they both got the > article from "postnews.google.com", and a quick check on google [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > What does the Path: header for that article look like from your > NNTP server? It appears to originate with newsgroupbanter.com, which I am not familiar with: Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local01.nntp.dca.giganew s.com!nntp.newsgroupbanter.com!news.newsgroupbanter.com.POSTED!not-for-m ail > Here is what Newsguy shows: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Do you have either google or giganews in the path to your server? Yeah, I use giganews, so it's definitely going to be there. :^) As I get it from giganews, and it's next in line after newsgroupbanter.com's machines, it would appear that it must be in newsgroupbanter's machines that the bits are being stripped, but that still overlooks the fact that the poster's news software is posting high-bit characters like that in the first place, which it shouldn't be. High bits are generally OK, but the news transmision protocol specifications don't require them to be recognized, so any news reader/poster should always _post_ with lowest common denominator, no matter what it will accept to _view_ with. Remember, there's still a lot of people out there using shells, text-based, and non-graphical interfaces to read news. SignatureYou need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence. -- Charles A. Beard >> What does the Path: header for that article look like from your >> NNTP server? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >s.com!nntp.newsgroupbanter.com!news.newsgroupbanter.com.POSTED!not-for-m >ail Well, that pretty much means that Google is filtering it. You are getting the original file, with the high bit set characters, from giganews.com, and I don't see the high bit characters on any of Supernews, Newsguy or Google. Google of course is the common link. >> Here is what Newsguy shows: >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >newsgroupbanter.com's machines, it would appear that it must be in >newsgroupbanter's machines that the bits are being stripped, but that If gnewsgroupbanter was stripping them, you wouldn't see them. But you do... >still overlooks the fact that the poster's news software is posting >high-bit characters like that in the first place, which it shouldn't >be. Yes. That is far more disgusting than having Google strip them. >High bits are generally OK, but the news transmision protocol >specifications don't require them to be recognized, so any news >reader/poster should always _post_ with lowest common denominator, no >matter what it will accept to _view_ with. Remember, there's still a >lot of people out there using shells, text-based, and non-graphical >interfaces to read news. And the newsreaders that are graphical can all be different too. There just is no *standard* that will work for everything, except 7-bit ASCII. Unfortunately a lot of folks that have written news reading software don't have a great deal of experience with Usenet, or with the Internet for that matter. SignatureFloyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson> Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com <snip of repetitious parts> > >As I get it from giganews, and it's next in line after > >newsgroupbanter.com's machines, it would appear that it must be in > >newsgroupbanter's machines that the bits are being stripped, but that > > If gnewsgroupbanter was stripping them, you wouldn't see them. > But you do... You're right of course, I was not thinking clearly on that one. I was (for some reason) considering the source news spool, not the stripper. > >still overlooks the fact that the poster's news software is posting > >high-bit characters like that in the first place, which it shouldn't > >be. > > Yes. That is far more disgusting than having Google strip them. Agreed. Which is why I made the original comment that started this all, as in "One thing we would want to see is for you to post using a usenet capable piece of software that doesn't use all sorts of illegal characters." > >High bits are generally OK, but the news transmision protocol > >specifications don't require them to be recognized, so any news [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > written news reading software don't have a great deal of > experience with Usenet, or with the Internet for that matter. Again, agreed - 100%. Many of them don't even understand even the very basics of usenet posting conventions, and merely take the bare "ability" to post to and read from usenet as some sort of achievement - hell, I can do that "on the metal" direct to a server using NNTP commands and my keyboard, that doesn't make *me* a newsreader. :^) Conventions like not defaulting to top posting, etc., or knowing that words surrounded by "*" characters means *boldface*, words surrounded by "_" characters means _underlined_, and words surrounded by "/" characters means that the word is meant to be /italicized/ in emphasis by thhe original poster, all of which make subtle differences in communication. They're more worried about translating little graphical smileys from text ones. Good newsreaders detect those things and actually do to the text what was intended in the first place, and you never see the actual "code" characters - kind of like the old embedded "dot" commands for printers. And so a whole generation of users of those softwares have no clue what those "silly characters" surrounding words mean when they see it, if their reader doesn't actually boldface, underline, or italicize the words... all they see is *some* _sort_ of /emphasis/, but they lose the nuances, nor do they know how to use those situations when they'd be useful from their end. SignatureYou need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence. -- Charles A. Beard |
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