Photo Forum / Digital Photography / Digital Photo / October 2006
What makes the tiny digicams lenses so good?
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Don W - 02 Oct 2006 12:55 GMT Thirty or 40 years ago I used to have a Pentax Spotmatic (printing black and white in my own darkroom) and graduated onto several other SLRs from there. I used labs for color. My pictures were never printed beyond 10 x 8 and to be honest you might call the majority of my photos as "high quality family pictures".
After years of SLRs and some higher quality 35mm compacts, I didn't really use my cameras for about 10 or 15 years.
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Then recently I got to use one of the modern digital compacts. It was a Canon Powershot SD450. (UK: Canon IXUS 55.) 5 MP. A 6 element lens in 5 groups. Max aperture of f/2.8 at full wide angle (less on telephoto)
My! Oh my! The results are really very good. I look at the tiny weeny little microscopic lens and when I see what it can do then I'm very impressed. Reviews suggest it I could get a really very decent 10 x 8 color print from this.
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Of course contrast, color, vignetting, fringing, distortion may not be 100% but they are nevertheless more than adequate for a lot of photos.
QUESTION: How does this sort of compact digital camera lens (or even those from the slightly better compacts digicams) compare to those old lenses without going to the extreme:
Takumar or Super Takumar (42mm thread) on the old Spotmatic? http://tinyurl.com/8clur
the FD lenses on the slightly later Canon AE-1 (bayonet). http://www.camerahobby.com/Review-AE1.html
the Olympus Zuikos lenses (bayonet) found on the almost as old Olympus OM-1? http://tinyurl.com/2kwss
Joseph Meehan - 02 Oct 2006 13:06 GMT > Thirty or 40 years ago I used to have a Pentax Spotmatic (printing > black and white in my own darkroom) and graduated onto several other [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > the Olympus Zuikos lenses (bayonet) found on the almost as old Olympus > OM-1? http://tinyurl.com/2kwss There are many factors, not just the lens, that go into image quality.
Since you are talking about different formats (size of film - sensor) it is really difficult to compare lenses.
Small lenses are easier to make well.
Lens design has improved over the years due to computer designs, better glass etc.
Post exposure processing has been a plus in many ways (also a scourge in others).
If you had a full size 35mm digital SLR you would have a better opportunity to compare apples to apples and I believe you would find that apples are apples. The lenses are not all that different. We still have good ones and some not so good and a few great.
 Signature Joseph Meehan
Dia duit
Evan - 02 Oct 2006 14:54 GMT Joseph and Don,
I don't mean to hijack this thread, but it might illicit some educated responses from camera afficionados out there like you.
My Kodak DX3600 is now about five years old. The resolution of 2.2mp has always been adequate, but the quality has never been so good. It's now playing up and I anticipate it will die soon.
Upon replacing it, I'd like to spend a bit to give me something that I can set up in home with some decent lighting to take nice family portraits to send abroad to the grandfolks. I've seen photos on mom's Panasonic camera that look like professional studio photographs when the lighting and backgrounds were just right by coincidence (mine has never fluked it that nice).
Let's say £300 was my budget (for divorce's sake). Is there a range of models in the UK that would produce studio-worthy photos that will satisfy a trained eye such as your own? Should I concentrate on what they're calling the "prosumer" quality range and spend a bit more?
Colin Wilson - 02 Oct 2006 18:59 GMT > Let's say £300 was my budget (for divorce's sake). Is there a range of > models in the UK that would produce studio-worthy photos that will > satisfy a trained eye such as your own? Should I concentrate on what > they're calling the "prosumer" quality range and spend a bit more? See the recent thread where the Canon S3 IS was mentioned (amongst others)
http://www.steves-digicams.com/2006_reviews/s3is.html
Evan - 03 Oct 2006 08:53 GMT > > Let's say £300 was my budget (for divorce's sake). Is there a range of > > models in the UK that would produce studio-worthy photos that will [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > http://www.steves-digicams.com/2006_reviews/s3is.html Have used Steve's Digicams before...good site. Will check out the Canon. Always hear good things about this brand.
Steven Campbell - 02 Oct 2006 21:02 GMT Joseph and Don,
>I don't mean to hijack this thread, but it might illicit some educated >responses from camera afficionados out there like you. Get yourself along to www.ephotozine.com Good bunch of folk there on the forums who will gladly answer your questions. You can also browse the gallery and see what pictures were taken with what camera. www.dpreview.com is American based but has some good guides. http://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk/index.html is a good price comparison site. SLR camera is the way to go if you can afford it.
Steven.
chrisu - 02 Oct 2006 22:20 GMT > Joseph and Don, > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Steven. There are times when a point and shhot thats fits in the pocket is just the job - I have a Ixus 60 - having said that I'm pretty impressed with my EOS400D.
 Signature 1976 Z900, 1980 Z1R, 1973 Beamish suzuki, 1976 GT250, 2000 ZRX1200
Steven Campbell - 02 Oct 2006 22:35 GMT >> Joseph and Don, >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > the job - I have a Ixus 60 - having said that I'm pretty impressed with my > EOS400D. Totally agree with you but out of curiosity, if you think your Ixus 60 does the job, why do you also have the 400D? P&S is great for convenience but no so on versatility.
Steven.
HLAH - 03 Oct 2006 00:14 GMT >>> Joseph and Don, >>> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > does the job, why do you also have the 400D? > P&S is great for convenience but no so on versatility. To butt in, I have an Ixus 60 - what a cracking little camera! but sadly, no flash level control, no aperture or shutter priority mode and no full manual mode. I can't see any reason why these features couldn't have been included - the camera uses the Digic II processor like other cameras in the Canon range and it surely wouldn't have been too difficult? Still then it would wander into the feature set realm of the S series range, not good marketing I guess.
Also other problems are, it's noisy in low light and it can fluff the focus a bit too often. The battery warning is rubbish as well.
I expect the 400D doesn't have these problems but you would have to be some fat bastard to slip one into your pocket like I can an Ixus :-)
H
chrisu - 03 Oct 2006 09:29 GMT >>>>Joseph and Don, >>>> >>>>>I don't mean to hijack this thread, but it might illicit some educated >>>>>responses from camera afficionados out there like you. snip
>>> There are times when a point and shhot thats fits in the pocket is just >>>the job - I have a Ixus 60 - having said that I'm pretty impressed with [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>does the job, why do you also have the 400D? >>P&S is great for convenience but no so on versatility. snip
> Also other problems are, it's noisy in low light and it can fluff the focus > a bit too often. The battery warning is rubbish as well. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > H who are you calling fat ????............. ;-)
as above P&S is P&S for true versatility/control you need an SLR - I do a lot of horse event photography - a DSLR gets the shot but from a safe distance.
day to day its the ixis 60 thats with me at all times.
 Signature 1976 Z900, 1980 Z1R, 1973 Beamish suzuki, 1976 GT250, 2000 ZRX1200
Evan - 03 Oct 2006 08:56 GMT > Get yourself along to www.ephotozine.com > Good bunch of folk there on the forums who will gladly answer your [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > site. > SLR camera is the way to go if you can afford it. I will certainly check these out...thanks.
I would hesitate getting an SLR because of the heavy use the camera would suffer at the hands of the whole family. I certainly don't want to have to clean dirt off the sensor.
David J Taylor - 02 Oct 2006 13:26 GMT []
> QUESTION: > How does this sort of compact digital camera lens (or even those from > the slightly better compacts digicams) compare to those old lenses > without going to the extreme: One reason is that they are no longer required to fit the SLR format, with its mirror making the lens back-focal length requirement much greater. Design and manufacture have, of course, improved over the years as well.
David
David J. Littleboy - 02 Oct 2006 13:58 GMT "David J Taylor" <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.not-this-bit.nor-this-part.uk> wrote:
> [] >> QUESTION: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > One reason is that they are no longer required to fit the SLR format, with > its mirror making the lens back-focal length requirement much greater. That's largely only an issue for superwides; since there aren't any wides in the P&S world that isn't a significant point.
One point to note, though, is that as the pixel counts have been going up, the lenses have been getting slower. It's always easier to provide good performance in a lens if it's slower.
My bet, though, is that any of the lenses the OP mentioned would cough up great images if mounted on a 5D and shot at f/8; there are several people claiming certain of the Olympus OM-1 series lenses are better than current Canon lenses on the 5D.
David J. Littleboy Tokyo, Japan
David J Taylor - 02 Oct 2006 14:18 GMT > "David J Taylor" []
>> One reason is that they are no longer required to fit the SLR >> format, with its mirror making the lens back-focal length >> requirement much greater. > > That's largely only an issue for superwides; since there aren't any > wides in the P&S world that isn't a significant point. But it's the whole thing about having to fit into last century's format! Give the optical designer more freedom and they can make better lenses (with everything else equal). Plus (as you cropped) the better design and manufacturing techniques today. Another point is that these are fixed lenses, designed specifically to suit the sensor used.
BTW: there are now quite a large number of non-SLR cameras with 23 - 28mm lenses.
David
David J. Littleboy - 02 Oct 2006 15:20 GMT "David J Taylor" <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.not-this-bit.nor-this-part.uk> wrote:
>> "David J Taylor" > [] [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Give the optical designer more freedom and they can make better lenses > (with everything else equal). Well, maybe. But they can't use it because if they get too close to the sensor, then the angle of incidence really will be a problem (normally, this complaint about digital is FUD because the dSLR lenses are all retrofocus (doh!), but it will impose about the same restriction on lens design as the mirror does).
> Plus (as you cropped) the better design and manufacturing techniques > today. Another point is that these are fixed lenses, designed > specifically to suit the sensor used. The last point is valid. But in terms of lines per height of resolution, the old Pentax lenses will cough up more than the P&S lenses. I don't have any such older 35mm lenses lying around, but the 35mm f/3.5 wide (medium-wide: 22mm equiv, but that's all you get in 645) for the Mamiya 645 is razor sharp on the 5D. And this particular lens has a pretty poor reputation for sharpness in the MF world. (Although it's not all that old a design, probably early 1980s or so, I'd guess.)
> BTW: there are now quite a large number of non-SLR cameras with 23 - 28mm > lenses. That's pretty wimpy (and 24mm is still seriously rare). Both my dSLRs have 17mm equivalent lenses, and there's the Sigma 12-24 for folks who want to have real fun.
David J. Littleboy Tokyo, Japan
David J Taylor - 02 Oct 2006 16:26 GMT > "David J Taylor" []
>> Plus (as you cropped) the better design and manufacturing techniques >> today. Another point is that these are fixed lenses, designed [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > have 17mm equivalent lenses, and there's the Sigma 12-24 for folks > who want to have real fun. Accepted that what I would call ultra-wides are not available in non-SLR cameras, although the correct use of such lenses takes a lot of care.
With digital, the need for the lens MTF changes. No longer do you want a long tail of ever decreasing MTF, but as high an MTF as you can get up to the Nyquist frequency (i.e. half the sampling rate), and then no more. I've not been involved in optical design enough to know whether of not it's easier to try and get that sort of MTF curve rather than another, but I suspect that being allowed a wider PSF (which this seems to imply) might also ease the design of lenses for strictly digital cameras (non SLR cameras where the sensor resolution is fixed).
David
Paul J Gans - 03 Oct 2006 01:39 GMT >[] >> QUESTION: >> How does this sort of compact digital camera lens (or even those from >> the slightly better compacts digicams) compare to those old lenses >> without going to the extreme:
>One reason is that they are no longer required to fit the SLR format, with >its mirror making the lens back-focal length requirement much greater. >Design and manufacture have, of course, improved over the years as well. I agree. Further, a smaller sensor fits a smaller lens. Many such cameras I believe have cast acrylic aspherical lenses which can be *very* good.
---- Paul J. Gans
Don Stauffer in Minnesota - 02 Oct 2006 14:47 GMT > QUESTION: > How does this sort of compact digital camera lens (or even those from > the slightly better compacts digicams) compare to those old lenses > without going to the extreme: One of the things that makes some lenses on smaller, cheaper cameras work so well is that they have a smaller aperture (higher min. f/#). It is always easier to design and build a lens of smaller aperture. Lenses of larger aperture (lower f/#) are more complex even stopped down.
Both the higher f/# and the shorter focal length gives you some additional depth of field. Design techniques and fab techniques have advanced in last two decades.
Note that the smaller aperture is common even on compact 35mm cams, not just digitals.
Paul J Gans - 03 Oct 2006 01:50 GMT In rec.photo.digital Don Stauffer in Minnesota <stauffer@usfamily.net> wrote:
>> QUESTION: >> How does this sort of compact digital camera lens (or even those from >> the slightly better compacts digicams) compare to those old lenses >> without going to the extreme:
>One of the things that makes some lenses on smaller, cheaper cameras >work so well is that they have a smaller aperture (higher min. f/#). It >is always easier to design and build a lens of smaller aperture. >Lenses of larger aperture (lower f/#) are more complex even stopped >down.
>Both the higher f/# and the shorter focal length gives you some >additional depth of field. Design techniques and fab techniques have >advanced in last two decades.
>Note that the smaller aperture is common even on compact 35mm cams, not >just digitals. Wait a minute here. The OP was talking about the Canon 450D. That camera has a 5.8 to 17.4 mm f/2.8 to f/4.9 lens. It certainly isn't small aperture. It runs about 5 megapixels.
On the other hand, with very short focal distances, it isn't that hard to get a fast lens.
And no, I don't have this information memorized. I just happen to have mine with me at the moment. ;-)
---- Paul J. Gans
jeremy - 02 Oct 2006 15:44 GMT > QUESTION: > How does this sort of compact digital camera lens (or even those from > the slightly better compacts digicams) compare to those old lenses > without going to the extreme: It is as bit more complicated comparing digitsl to film, because on digital the lens is not the only factor that determines the quality of the image.
I started in 35mm in 1973, with a Spotmatic IIa, which I still have, along with another dozen or so bodies. In my case, I did not want to abandon my familiar film gear, so I went with a film scanner, and I am quite content with that arrangement. My requirements are modest, and I shoot only a roll per week, if that.
I have had a 2.3MP digicam since 2000. It was prosumer when it was released, and I have always been quite pleased with its results. Nine-element, all glass lens. Remote control (great as a substitute for a cable release when camera is on a tripod). And I always have my film gear when I require higher resolution images.
The film scanner has, in a sense, turned all of my film cameras into digital cameras. Since I don't have large expenditures for film and processing, this setup works well for me.
If you still have your Spotmatics, and if you are the lower-volume shooter that your post suggests, you too might want to consider trying a film scanner, rather than starting over with digital bodies and their lenses, and paying a fortune to replicate what you already have in the film domain. This approach is probably unsuitable for people that shoot lots of images.
I rarely see reviews of lenses for digital cameras, and current software like PSP or PS can correct for things like pinsuchion and barrel distortion, digital noise reduction, chromatic aberration ("purple fringing"), and perspective correction ("falling buildings"). It can also increase or decrease sharpening, allowing you to mimic characteristics of specific lenses. So the lens itself is not longer as critical a factor as it was back in the days when shooting transparencies--when it was just the lens and the film, with no intermediate influences.
My sense is that it is easier to use less-than-stellar lenses with digital photography, since the images can be tweaked during the editing stage. It may take additional time to tweak the images, a problem for professionals for whom time is money, but we amateurs have a different set of requirements than pros do.
For family photos of 8 x 10 or smaller, your choices are broad. Most digicams are perfectly well-suited to that type of photography. I would say that your ability to exploit the features of your editing software is probably more important than your choice of camera, for such shots.
Digital P&S cameras are becoming more like commodities. Manufacturers are struggling to define niches that separate their products from the rest of the pack, but any feature of value can be easily mimiced by other manufacturers within 6 months, when the latest updated models come out. For my part, I've stopped trying to stay on top of the latest developments--my film cameras do exactly whet I want them to do, I already have lots of gear, and the film scanner enables me to take advantage of the one feature of digital imaging that means the most to ME: that of being able to have a digital darkroom where I can edit (and, hopefully, improve) my images prior to printing them. The method of capture is of no importance at all.
Takumar or Super Takumar (42mm thread) on the old Spotmatic?
> http://tinyurl.com/8clur > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the Olympus Zuikos lenses (bayonet) found on the almost as old Olympus > OM-1? http://tinyurl.com/2kwss Tzortzakakis Dimitrios - 02 Oct 2006 18:45 GMT > > QUESTION: > > How does this sort of compact digital camera lens (or even those from [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > > the Olympus Zuikos lenses (bayonet) found on the almost as old Olympus > > OM-1? http://tinyurl.com/2kwss You have a point.Many people that used to have SLRs and shot transparencies and B&W have switched over to digital and not everyone has got a DSLR.But, you're missing some practical aspects of digital photography.Economy.Convenience.Easy sharing.You won't have to wait for the 36 exp roll to fill up to have it developed.You can see your "prints" instantly, and delete the ones you don't need anymore.You can reuse and reuse the same memory card, and burning in your own computer a cd or a dvd, and send a copy to your relatives (no more fussing with lost negatives)or even email them, and allow the public to view them.I had a Nikon FM-2, complete with flash, photometer, 24mm f2.5 Tamron,50 mm 1.4 Nikkor,70-210 Sigma, several filters, close up lenses etc.and imagine what happened when I had to use the flash (a soviet vintage one, which charged with mains plug!).Usually my subject had lost patience.I gave it away, and I'm telling you,I'm better off without it.Now I have a Kodak CX 7300, (3.2 MP) which is fine for the couple of dozens of photos I shoot every 6 months.
-- Tzortzakakis Dimitrios major in electrical engineering,freelance electrician mechanized infantry reservist dimtzort AT otenet DOT gr
Carlos Moreno - 02 Oct 2006 17:16 GMT > Thirty or 40 years ago [...] > > Then recently [...] A 6 element lens [...] > > My! Oh my! The results are really very good. [...] So, to answer to the question in the subject:
Decades of research and technology advances in the design and creation of lenses -- for multiple reasons: newly- discovered (or newly-designed) materials that lead to higher-quality glass; better manufacturing processes leading to lenses with fewer and less-significant defects; better designs (partly due to computer-assisting tools available today and not available a decade or a few decades ago).
I mean, compare the quality of television 30 or 40 years ago with today's. Compare the special effects of movies 30 or 40 years ago with today's (and I mean the "final quality" of the effects -- not the "merit" and the ingeniosity involved in it). Compare the quality of cars 30 or 40 years ago with today's (again, the *technical quality* -- whether or not one may think that cars were "cooler" back in those days is not an issue here; cars were not fuel efficient, they were not nearly as safe -- in fact, they were barbarically unsafe 30 years ago -- etc. etc.)
Yes, I know that there are also counter-examples to the argument -- things in which the "mass marketing" nature of things has completely ruined products that used to be manufactured with higher standards of quality (furniture comes to mind -- although under certain point of view, one could perhaps argue that thy have improved technically -- easy to "assemble yourself", easier to move and transport, more enviro-friendly, etc.).
Carlos --
jpc - 02 Oct 2006 17:40 GMT Inexpensive high quaiity molded aspheric lens and better lens design program are among the main reasons. The lens on my newest pocket camera-an OLY 350-- has six elements of which rhree are apsherics and it's close to aberation free thruout its zoom range
jpc
>Thirty or 40 years ago I used to have a Pentax Spotmatic (printing black >and white in my own darkroom) and graduated onto several other SLRs from [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] >the Olympus Zuikos lenses (bayonet) found on the almost as old Olympus >OM-1? http://tinyurl.com/2kwss Andy - 03 Oct 2006 12:44 GMT > Inexpensive high quaiity molded aspheric lens and better lens design > program are among the main reasons. The lens on my newest pocket > camera-an OLY 350-- has six elements of which rhree are apsherics and > it's close to aberation free thruout its zoom range > > jpc Moulded lenses - that souds like a big money saver when it somes to manufacturing.
Bill Funk - 03 Oct 2006 18:02 GMT >> Inexpensive high quaiity molded aspheric lens and better lens design >> program are among the main reasons. The lens on my newest pocket [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Moulded lenses - that souds like a big money saver when it somes to >manufacturing. It is a money saver, but it also allows aspheric lens shapes, which would be prohibitively expensive if made from glass.
 Signature Bill Funk replace "g" with "a"
jpc - 04 Oct 2006 17:21 GMT >> Inexpensive high quaiity molded aspheric lens and better lens design >> program are among the main reasons. The lens on my newest pocket [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Moulded lenses - that souds like a big money saver when it somes to >manufacturing. Took a lot of upfront money to get there. But once you have the molds and the right optical grade plastics and the techniques to mold the parts without introducing so much birefringence the lens is useless you ought to be able to turn out aspherics for a couple bucks a piece as compated with a couple gand apiece back in the handwork days.
jpc
Ilya Zakharevich - 31 Oct 2006 00:31 GMT [A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to Don W <mail@mail.invalid>], who wrote in article <Xns985083882E70A74C1H4@127.0.0.1>:
> Then recently I got to use one of the modern digital compacts. It was a > Canon Powershot SD450. (UK: Canon IXUS 55.) 5 MP. A 6 element lens [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > impressed. Reviews suggest it I could get a really very decent 10 x 8 > color print from this.
> Of course contrast, color, vignetting, fringing, distortion may not be > 100% but they are nevertheless more than adequate for a lot of photos. Some of these are not a tiny bit important in digital world, since they can be 100% corrected without any (or, at least, a significant) image degradation.
The principal reason for the effect you see is that, as it turns out, lenses has very little effect in 35mm world: the quality of film in 35mm formfactor is so abysmal, that the *principal* damage comes from film, not from lens.
Replacing film by a digital sensor increases several parameters so much that a (small?) decrease in other parameters is not very noticable.
One data point: to fully exploit the image detail provided by high quality rangefinder lenses in the highest-resolution f-stop, one would need to have about 80MP digital sensor. But already a 8MP pixel provides images which (in most people's eyes) bit the quality of film images.
This gap (8MP to match film quality, vs. 80MP to match lens quality) leads to the effect that even not-a-stellar lens provides quite adequate images.
> QUESTION: > How does this sort of compact digital camera lens (or even those from > the slightly better compacts digicams) compare to those old lenses > without going to the extreme: In the view of the above, I think this question does not make a lot of sense...
Hope this helps, Ilya
bugbear - 31 Oct 2006 13:02 GMT >>Of course contrast, color, vignetting, fringing, distortion may not be >>100% but they are nevertheless more than adequate for a lot of photos. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > much that a (small?) decrease in other parameters is not very > noticable. Hmm. Since making good lenses is expensive, and since (further) some corrections fight other corrections (colour vs barrel distortion IIRC) has any manufacturer (yet...) used Mega pixels and CPU power to perform some of the corrections digitally so that the lens could be better corrected in the remaining ways (and/or cheaper to make) ?
BugBear
Chris Hills - 31 Oct 2006 14:03 GMT >>>Of course contrast, color, vignetting, fringing, distortion may not >>>be 100% but they are nevertheless more than adequate for a lot of [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >so that the lens could be better corrected >in the remaining ways (and/or cheaper to make) ? It has been suggested but most lens makers AFAIK leave that sort of processing to the RAW convertors such as DXO that wil correct for lens distortion.
The trouble is it takes TIME so it is best done on the MAC not the Camera.
 Signature \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ /\/\/ chris@phaedsys.org www.phaedsys.org \/\/\ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
bugbear - 31 Oct 2006 14:54 GMT >> Hmm. Since making good lenses is expensive, and since >> (further) some corrections fight other corrections [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > The trouble is it takes TIME so it is best done on the MAC not the Camera. Ageeed - although faster CPUs may make the time "acceptable"
Here's a special circumstance where the manufacture of "correct" lenses has already ceased, so post-capture processing and calibration is "the only way"
http://www.camerasunderwater.info/optics/lenscorrect.html
Interesting stuff, IMHO.
BugBear
Peter Lynch - 31 Oct 2006 13:33 GMT > This gap (8MP to match film quality, vs. 80MP to match lens quality) > leads to the effect that even not-a-stellar lens provides quite > adequate images. One way to assess the quality (or not) of lenses is to photograph a night sky. To do this you'll need to talk to your astronomy buddies and borrow a tracking mount. Typically stars reveal all the limitations of lenese as the subjects are effectively point sources. Unless you have some top 'o the range APO lenses, you'll see to your horror things like coma, false colours and maybe some reflections. In real-life these effects are totally masked by the continuous nature of the subject, but it is interesting to how different views can reveal faults.
Pete
 Signature .......................................................................... . never trust a man who, when left alone ...... Pete Lynch . . in a room with a tea cosy ...... Marlow, England . . doesn't try it on (Billy Connolly) .....................................
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