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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / Digital Photo / August 2006

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Saving family photos

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luk - 15 Aug 2006 16:23 GMT
I've been restoring and saving family
photos on CD-R disks.  Would a flash
drive preserve them longer?

Luk
Joseph Meehan - 15 Aug 2006 21:54 GMT
> I've been restoring and saving family
> photos on CD-R disks.  Would a flash
> drive preserve them longer?
>
> Luk

   Good question.  I don't know about life expectancy of flash drives.  I
would suggest that it would be a good idea to make at least two copies of
the CD-R  and renew them every 3-5 years.  Keep one copy with you and one
with friend or family far away, like across country.  No matter what, one is
likely to survive.

Signature

Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Paul Heslop - 15 Aug 2006 22:35 GMT
> I've been restoring and saving family
> photos on CD-R disks.  Would a flash
> drive preserve them longer?
>
> Luk

what about an external hard drive?
Signature

Paul  (Neurotic to the bone No doubt about it)  
------------------------------------------------------  
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

Sharp - 15 Aug 2006 22:48 GMT
>> I've been restoring and saving family
>> photos on CD-R disks.  Would a flash
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>what about an external hard drive?

Another thing worth considering is using the best quality CDRs you can
get. Check out the CDRs at http://www.inkjetart.com/mitsui/. They cost
more, but should last a lot more reliably than the 35 cent CDRs, which
I've had go bad on me from simple storage -- really go bad from
spending time in a car during an Alabama summer.
luk - 15 Aug 2006 23:17 GMT
> Another thing worth considering is using the best quality CDRs you can
> get. Check out the CDRs at http://www.inkjetart.com/mitsui/. They cost
> more, but should last a lot more reliably than the 35 cent CDRs, which
> I've had go bad on me from simple storage -- really go bad from
> spending time in a car during an Alabama summer.

Interesting.
As it happens, I asked at my local computer store
what CD-Rs would last the longest.  I was sent to
the tech department.  The tech department didn't
know either.  I specifically asked whether gold-
toned disks were better and they had no idea.

Luk
Paul Heslop - 16 Aug 2006 01:45 GMT
> > Another thing worth considering is using the best quality CDRs you can
> > get. Check out the CDRs at http://www.inkjetart.com/mitsui/. They cost
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Luk

many people recommend Taiyo yuden but then you have the 'is it real or
is it fake' thing.

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Paul  (Neurotic to the bone No doubt about it)  
------------------------------------------------------  
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

Mr.Bolshoyhuy - 28 Aug 2006 16:54 GMT
> Another thing worth considering is using the best quality CDRs you can
> get. Check out the CDRs at http://www.inkjetart.com/mitsui/. They cost
> more, but should last a lot more reliably than the 35 cent CDRs, which
> I've had go bad on me from simple storage -- really go bad from
> spending time in a car during an Alabama summer.

I buy TDK or HP CDRs for 0.20c each, either 50 for $10 spindle or
10 for $4 w/jewel cases.
Make 2 or more copies.
Joan - 19 Aug 2006 06:21 GMT
How old is your oldest hard drive?  Have you tried to use an old 20MB
hard drive?

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Joan
http://www.flickr.com/photos/joan-in-manly

: > I've been restoring and saving family
: > photos on CD-R disks.  Would a flash
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
:
: what about an external hard drive?
Paul Heslop - 19 Aug 2006 07:26 GMT
> How old is your oldest hard drive?  Have you tried to use an old 20MB
> hard drive?
>
> --
> Joan
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/joan-in-manly

this for the OP or me Joan?
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Paul  (Neurotic to the bone No doubt about it)  
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Stop and Look
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Joan - 19 Aug 2006 07:42 GMT
Doesn't matter really, but you suggested a hard drive.  I wouldn't
trust them for long term storage.

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Joan
http://www.flickr.com/photos/joan-in-manly

: > How old is your oldest hard drive?  Have you tried to use an old 20MB
: > hard drive?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
:
: this for the OP or me Joan?
Paul Heslop - 19 Aug 2006 10:10 GMT
> Doesn't matter really, but you suggested a hard drive.  I wouldn't
> trust them for long term storage.

Personal thing I suppose. they do fail but so do discs. In fact I am
unsure what is the absolute best way to store, so  a combination of
the things mentioned seems to be a good idea.

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Paul  (Neurotic to the bone No doubt about it)  
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Stop and Look
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Joan - 19 Aug 2006 11:09 GMT
A shoe box is an old favourite of mine ;-)

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Joan
http://www.flickr.com/photos/joan-in-manly

: > Doesn't matter really, but you suggested a hard drive.  I wouldn't
: > trust them for long term storage.
: >
: Personal thing I suppose. they do fail but so do discs. In fact I am
: unsure what is the absolute best way to store, so  a combination of
: the things mentioned seems to be a good idea.
Paul Heslop - 19 Aug 2006 11:31 GMT
> A shoe box is an old favourite of mine ;-)

Heh, we have two boxes, both huge things, containing pics from our own
kids and their kids mainly. One thing about digital, it's compact :O)

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Paul  (Neurotic to the bone No doubt about it)  
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Stop and Look
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no_name - 20 Aug 2006 04:17 GMT
>>Doesn't matter really, but you suggested a hard drive.  I wouldn't
>>trust them for long term storage.
>
> Personal thing I suppose. they do fail but so do discs. In fact I am
> unsure what is the absolute best way to store, so  a combination of
> the things mentioned seems to be a good idea.

Backup to CD/DVD (twice) and to backup hard-disk (also twice). One set
of backups stays here, the other set gets stored off site.

Is kind of a pain to keep the backup hard-disks reasonably synchronized.

Signature

These are my views. If you've got a problem with it, you can blame it on
me, but this is what I think. I am not the official spokes-person for
any Government, Commercial or Educational institution.

John

Paul Heslop - 20 Aug 2006 05:33 GMT
> >>Doesn't matter really, but you suggested a hard drive.  I wouldn't
> >>trust them for long term storage.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Is kind of a pain to keep the backup hard-disks reasonably synchronized.

now that sounds pretty much like my system... and yes, it is painful

Paul  (Neurotic to the bone No doubt about it)  
------------------------------------------------------  
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
jtur@concentric.net - 25 Aug 2006 07:45 GMT
> > Doesn't matter really, but you suggested a hard drive.  I wouldn't
> > trust them for long term storage.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Stop and Look
> http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

Hello, Paul:

DVD-RAM is the best optical storage medium, overall. It can be accessed
as easily as a hard disk or floppy and is more reliable than the other
DVD (and CD) formats, all while remaining fairly affordable.

Each of my two Pentium III PC's contains a "multiwriter" DVD drive,
which includes DVD-RAM capability. The LG Electronics GSA-4120B is
in my main machine, as it's far quieter (and less flaky), and can
read/write more formats, than my older Panasonic SW-9571 (OEM). The
latter has been demoted to a secondary role, for obvious reasons. <g>

As to DVD-RAM media, most of mine consists of Maxell, with some
Panasonic puppies thrown in. Neither brand has ever caused me any
problems -- nor should it, as a DVD-RAM disc boasts a lifetime of
100,000 rewrite cycles!

Cordially,
          John Turco <jtur@concentric.net>
Paul Heslop - 25 Aug 2006 08:16 GMT
> > > Doesn't matter really, but you suggested a hard drive.  I wouldn't
> > > trust them for long term storage.
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> Cordially,
>            John Turco <jtur@concentric.net>

Thanks John, you may have given me the spur. I have been putting them
off due to price, and not having a burner on my machine, just a
panasonic stand alone, but I bought a pack of verbatim dvd-rw and they
seemed okay until recently when i recorded something, the disc failed
and I lost some stuff I wanted to keep from the disc. I see there are
some datawrite and datasafe rams available online too, but I'll have
to take a look at getting myself a burner aswell soon. (I just write
to cdr presently)
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jeremy - 25 Aug 2006 13:34 GMT
>> DVD-RAM is the best optical storage medium, overall. It can be accessed
>> as easily as a hard disk or floppy and is more reliable than the other
>> DVD (and CD) formats, all while remaining fairly affordable.

DVDs were not engineered with as much error correction as were CDs, and are
inferior to CDs because of that reason.

For long-term archiving (by that I mean over 5-year time horizon) CDs remain
a more secure choice.
dmaster - 25 Aug 2006 14:35 GMT
> >> DVD-RAM is the best optical storage medium, overall. It can be accessed
> >> as easily as a hard disk or floppy and is more reliable than the other
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> For long-term archiving (by that I mean over 5-year time horizon) CDs remain
> a more secure choice.

My humble opinion:

No matter what mechanism you choose, *multiple* copies, preferably in
multiple locations is your best bet.  As long as your photo collection
size allows it, I recommend backing up your entire collection on one
time writeable media each time you back up.  That way, you will have
many copies of every file, and chances of at least one good copy is
pretty good.

Dan (Woj...)
jeremy - 25 Aug 2006 20:49 GMT
>> >> DVD-RAM is the best optical storage medium, overall. It can be
>> >> accessed
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Dan (Woj...)

Agreed.  Absolutely.
Neil Maxwell - 25 Aug 2006 20:30 GMT
>>> DVD-RAM is the best optical storage medium, overall. It can be accessed
>>> as easily as a hard disk or floppy and is more reliable than the other
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>For long-term archiving (by that I mean over 5-year time horizon) CDs remain
>a more secure choice.

Counting on CDRs to remain readable for 5 years is asking for complete
loss of all your data.  Many CDRs don't even last 2 years, and DVDRs
are the same.  They aren't archival media under any circumstances, and
that includes those sold as archival.

I keep all my archives on a hard disk, which is backed up to 2 other
hard disks - one local, one on the network - with all the other data I
don't want to lose.  Now and again, I dump them to DVD, and this gives
me a fresh offline copy.

--
Neil Maxwell - I don't speak for my employer
jeremy - 25 Aug 2006 20:52 GMT
>>>> DVD-RAM is the best optical storage medium, overall. It can be accessed
>>>> as easily as a hard disk or floppy and is more reliable than the other
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> --
> Neil Maxwell - I don't speak for my employer

Hard disks absolutely WILL fail eventually, so they have their shortcomings
for long-term storage.

You may be willing to store your stuff on multiple HDs, but will your
descendents?  Probably not.

An optical medium--one that does not require much maintenance--is the way to
go.  Right now, the best that consumers have is CD, and they too have their
problems.
Neil Maxwell - 30 Aug 2006 17:10 GMT
>> Counting on CDRs to remain readable for 5 years is asking for complete
>> loss of all your data.  Many CDRs don't even last 2 years, and DVDRs
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>go.  Right now, the best that consumers have is CD, and they too have their
>problems.

The problem is that there's no good consumer option for long-term
storage (more than 5 years) of digital data.

It's all about risk assessment and risk management, and everyone needs
to make their own decisions regarding the value of their data, how
much risk they're willing to accept, and what they're willing to do to
protect it.  

Personally, I'm not good at manual scheduled backups, so a multi-tier
automated HD system is far and away best for me, and has saved me
countless hours.  People who are good at manual backups can choose
differently.

Yes, all storage media fails, however, a typical HD lasts longer than
a typical burned CDR, IME, and I've been archiving data on a variety
of media for 20 years.  Much more data is lost on a HD failure, and
they cost more, but again, those are all risk management decisions.

I have a large collection of unreadable optical media.  In my case, I
have much more digital data than just photos that I want to keep, so a
networked HD backup system works very well, and my data has survived
several HD failures.  The stuff that was on CDR from before I realized
how bad it was is all gone.

It's a trade-off, as always.  Sure, a CDR or DVDR doesn't require
maintenance when burned, but if you try to read it and don't get
anything, you're out of luck.  The 'net is full of sob stories about
people trying to read their burned media and failing, and about people
who lose their HDs with no backups as well.

As I said, counting on optical media to last 5 years is asking for
loss of your data.  There's plenty of data to support this.  

As for my descendants, well, that's up to them.  There will be whole
new storage systems in 10-20 years, and today's longevity data will be
moot.  For now, a combination of HD backup and optical media is
without a doubt the best from a risk management perspective.

--
Neil Maxwell - I don't speak for my employer
Frank ess - 30 Aug 2006 17:46 GMT
<snip>

> It's a trade-off, as always.  Sure, a CDR or DVDR doesn't require
> maintenance when burned, but if you try to read it and don't get
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> moot.  For now, a combination of HD backup and optical media is
> without a doubt the best from a risk management perspective.

I've taken to external HD backups, and when (one matched pair, so far)
full, I disconnect and store them, one off-site. Seems to me a quick
USB connection is likely to be available for most home computers for a
long time.

In my nearly thirty years of using hard drives, dozens upon dozens,
there's been one drive failure, and I was ble to recover 95% of the
useful data. I have a case of Zip disks that may or may not be any
good, but the important stuff from them went on a HD a couple-three
years ago. Same for almost all of my CD-ROM and DVD-ROM stuff. If I
weren't so lazy--I mean busy--it would all be cozy on HD.

Signature

Frank ess

John Turco - 26 Aug 2006 11:00 GMT
> >> DVD-RAM is the best optical storage medium, overall. It can be accessed
> >> as easily as a hard disk or floppy and is more reliable than the other
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> For long-term archiving (by that I mean over 5-year time horizon) CDs remain
> a more secure choice.

Hello, Jeremy:

Sorry, but you're dead wrong. DVD-RAM is the optimal optical option, for
storage purposes. :-)

It has >superior< error-correction capabilities (for data), and unlike
other DVD/CD formats, requires no potentially-flaky "packet writing"
software, in order to achieve its HDD/FDD functionality.

Conversely, DVD-RAM has very sparse compatibility with the vast majority
of DVD readers and writers (both stand-alone models and PC-based ones).
Panasonic and a mere handful of additional manufacturers have been its
lone backers, thus far.

Nonetheless, on my two Panasonic stand-alone DVD recorders [DMR-E50P
(DVD-R/DVD-RAM) & DMR-E75VP (VHS/DVD-R/DVD-RAM combo unit), DVD-RAM
is perfectly suited for the "time shifting" of television programs. Due
to its random-access nature, it thoroughly demolishes tape, from a
convenience/speed standpoint; and further, it even enables certain
TiVo-like features.

To summarize, DVD-RAM is unique among its DVD counterparts, in having
been chiefly intended for data storage. It seems Panasonic had
originally championed it as the eventual successor to the similar MO
(magneto-optical) technology, but with increased capacity and lower
cost.

Incidentally, where did you hear of CD's being better than DVD's, with
respect to error correction? That's news to me, and besides, a DVD can
hold several times as much data/video as a CD.

Cordially,
          John Turco <jtur@concentric.net>
Jim - 16 Aug 2006 02:36 GMT
> I've been restoring and saving family
> photos on CD-R disks.  Would a flash
> drive preserve them longer?
>
> Luk

Kodachrome.. oops hardly an option anymore.  I am glad my earliest
memories are on Dad's Kodachrome.  They will be around for a very long
time.   That being said, most my stuff is scanned to digital or
originated as digital.  Its all stored on hard drives.  And it is
backed up to DVD every so often.  Every 6 months, I take one of the
DVD's and put in my Safe Deposit box.  every two months I take one to
work and put it in my desk (and yes, there are no photo's on that DVD
that I fear my employer finding.. at work, its the employers property).

I would not trust a flash drive. Too easy to erase, smash, lose etc.  
Make backups, often.   Keep at least two generations of backups.  Man,
life was so much easier in the days of Kodachrome or black and white
negatives.  The stuff would last forever.

In 10 years, will you be able to buy a device to read DVD's, CD's or
current hard disk file systems.. .  a question worth thinking long and
hard about.

Its not so far fetched.  In the datacenter I manage, I need to maintain
several old tape systems to manage Archives on media that is no longer
supported. Yes we copy if off, but there is still a backlog.
Signature

Jim     <jen....not....home..remvdots...@....yahoo

Mr.Bolshoyhuy - 28 Aug 2006 17:11 GMT
> In 10 years, will you be able to buy a device to read DVD's, CD's or
> current hard disk file systems.. .  a question worth thinking long and
> hard about.

considering that proprietary storage media such as Zip, Jaz, Syquest,
Orb, Shark,
LS-120, etc. are dead, I'd be worried about relying on whatever is used
today; However, the 1.44mb floppy is in all PCs, and non-proprietary
media such as CDRs/DVDs will be around for atleast 20 years.
ASAAR - 28 Aug 2006 18:33 GMT
>> In 10 years, will you be able to buy a device to read DVD's, CD's or
>> current hard disk file systems.. .  a question worth thinking long and
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> today; However, the 1.44mb floppy is in all PCs, and non-proprietary
> media such as CDRs/DVDs will be around for atleast 20 years.

 You really can't compare those devices with CDs and DVDs.  Almost
all of their owners used them for portability, transferring large
amounts of data before broadband internet became common, etc.  I own
Zip and Syquest drives and would never consider using them for
archival purposes, partly because the capacities weren't all that
great, but mainly because the media was way too expensive.  For the
price of a single 270MB Syquest disk I could buy a handful of tapes,
and each tape could easily hold more data than a dozen Syquest
disks.  Tapes were not only much faster, but had enough capacity to
backup an entire hard drive at night, unattended.  No staying by the
computer to keep feeding in one disk cartridge after another.

 The point is, those drives were not bought in large numbers by
computer owners, and that's why you don't see them today.  CDs and
DVDs on the other hand, are included with just about every new
computer sold.  That can't even be said for floppy drives, so you're
wrong there.  The HP computer I recently bought has NO floppy drive,
nor has it a bay to hold one.  If I need a floppy I'll have to buy
an external USB model.

 The CDs we use today may not be sold 30 or 40 years from now, but
their wide use has encouraged manufacturers to develop DVD drives
that can not only read, but also write to CD media.  There's the
possibility that whatever replaces today's DVD drives will continue
along the compatibility path.  This was *not* true for Zip, Syquest
and Bernoulli disk cart's.  There was some backwards *read*
compatibility, but usually no *write* compatibility.  Of course for
old archived disks, all you really need is to be able to read them,
and this is no problem because CDs and DVDs are cheap and not
intended to be reused.  Those old disk cartridges created a problem
for their owners because they were so expensive.  If they owned
several dozen of them, a new higher capacity drive meant a new a
large expenditure for a bunch of new cartridges.  CD and DVD owners
haven't yet had this problem.
Bill Funk - 28 Aug 2006 21:27 GMT
>> In 10 years, will you be able to buy a device to read DVD's, CD's or
>> current hard disk file systems.. .  a question worth thinking long and
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>today; However, the 1.44mb floppy is in all PCs, and non-proprietary
>media such as CDRs/DVDs will be around for atleast 20 years.

No, the 1.44MB drive isn't in all PCs. It's old technomlgy.
I just looked at Dell, as an example, and 3.5" floppies are listed as
available on most systems, but not included.
Signature

Bill Funk
replace "g" with "a"

Neil Ellwood - 29 Aug 2006 11:36 GMT
>> In 10 years, will you be able to buy a device to read DVD's, CD's or
>> current hard disk file systems.. .  a question worth thinking long and
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> today; However, the 1.44mb floppy is in all PCs, and non-proprietary
> media such as CDRs/DVDs will be around for atleast 20 years.
Neither my sons pc or my one has a floppy disk drive and if i Had one how
would I get even one quality photo on it ?

Signature

Neil
Delete l to reply

stauffer@usfamily.net - 16 Aug 2006 15:02 GMT
> I've been restoring and saving family
> photos on CD-R disks.  Would a flash
> drive preserve them longer?
>
> Luk

This depends a lot on the quality of the CD-R disks.  I have seen
estimates of from 2-10 years, depending on brand and specifics (and
labeling method!).  I have seen estimates of 5 years on flash.  So GOOD
CDs would be better than flash, bad CDs not as good as flash.

Our local paper has a weekly column on digital living, and this
question was discussed in today's column. The columnist advised against
storing on hard drive if drive was used frequently.  He advised buying
good quality disks, and recopying CD every five years or so.
luk - 16 Aug 2006 15:55 GMT
> This depends a lot on the quality of the CD-R disks.  I have seen
> estimates of from 2-10 years, depending on brand and specifics (and
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> storing on hard drive if drive was used frequently.  He advised buying
> good quality disks, and recopying CD every five years or so.

How do I make sure I'm buying good
quality disks?

Luk
stauffer@usfamily.net - 17 Aug 2006 14:51 GMT
> > This depends a lot on the quality of the CD-R disks.  I have seen
> > estimates of from 2-10 years, depending on brand and specifics (and
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Luk

Not easy but two suggestions- buy name brand, and in some brands they
sell "premium" longer lasting ones.  One brand has a gold plating
coating that is supposed to aid lifetime.

Also, important suggestions- be careful about labeling.  I used those
adhesive labels made for disks.  Then heard that these are bad-
adhesive leaches into disk plastic.  Sure enough, every one of the
disks I had done that way went bad in about a year.  I now buy
labelable disks for my Epson printer which will print on CDs, or use a
CD/DVD-safe marking pen, bought at computer store, for less important
disks.
luk - 17 Aug 2006 17:01 GMT
>>How do I make sure I'm buying good
>>quality disks?
>>
>>Luk

> Not easy but two suggestions- buy name brand, and in some brands they
> sell "premium" longer lasting ones.  One brand has a gold plating
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> labelable disks for my Epson printer which will print on CDs, or use a
> CD/DVD-safe marking pen, bought at computer store, for less important

I wish you had named names.  I've shopped for
CD-R disks in several stores, looking for info
about durability.  After determining that CD-Rs
are the category I'm supposed to buy, there aren't
many choices and the labels aren't helpful.

Someone wrote somewhere that gold toned disks
are a good thing.  But the only gold toned
disks I found were simply designed for labeling
convenience.  They're called LightScribe.
Like this:
http://www.memorex.com/html/products_detail.php?section=1&SID=1&PID=899&FID=129&
opento=2
#

Luk
John Turco - 19 Aug 2006 04:31 GMT
<edited, for brevity>

> Someone wrote somewhere that gold toned disks
> are a good thing.  But the only gold toned
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Luk

Hello, Luk:

Only certain, newer DVD writers can "etch" Light Scribe media. Unless
you own such a device, or intend to acquire one, there's no point in
buying these discs.

Cordially,
          John Turco <jtur@concentric.net>
One4All - 26 Aug 2006 04:14 GMT
Look into eFilm Archival Gold CD's by Delkin Devices (300 years) and
Archival Gold DVD's, also by Delkin (100 years).These have been
favorably reviewed in photo magazines.

> >>How do I make sure I'm buying good
> >>quality disks?
> >>
> >>Luk
no_name - 16 Aug 2006 23:07 GMT
> I've been restoring and saving family
> photos on CD-R disks.  Would a flash
> drive preserve them longer?
>
> Luk

Probably not. Get the best quality CD-R disks you can find & use them.

A backup external hard-disk could also be a good thing. Store the CD
"images" on it.
Kiwiski - 19 Aug 2006 07:52 GMT
> I've been restoring and saving family
> photos on CD-R disks.  Would a flash
> drive preserve them longer?
>
> Luk

One way or other we will always have to be changing medium every few
years - what a hassle.  I'm now storing things online with a company I
trust (they have a very strong reputation, the highest possible
financial strength rating - so are not about to go bust, a policy to
never ever delete anyone's images, and a back up system as strong as
any banks).  I have figured that my images are safer with them than on
any system I come up with (even if it wasn't corruptible, there is
always fire and flood!).  I won't name the company publicly as I was so
taken by it I decided to join it - (it would look too much like spam).
John
shepshep1@excite.com - 26 Aug 2006 16:59 GMT
> I've been restoring and saving family
> photos on CD-R disks.  Would a flash
> drive preserve them longer?
>
> Luk

You could use web based storage such as flickr etc...
ezza17au - 26 Aug 2006 17:40 GMT
> I've been restoring and saving family
> photos on CD-R disks.  Would a flash
> drive preserve them longer?
>
> Luk

Hi Luk,

>From what I have read in the past, CD-R disks should store your data
for quite some time. Many years, perhaps numbered in the 10s of years
(you might need to check the manufacturer's specs on the disks just to
make sure). While flash drives are very cool & reasonably stable, I
still think that as an electronic device, they're more prone to failure
than a CD disk stored safely and properly in a cover &/or case.

Plus, they're an infinitely cheaper option than a flash drive,
especially if you have LOTS of photos...

Eran
http://EranMalloch.com
Perth, Western Australia
Jeff - 27 Aug 2006 23:49 GMT
>>From what I have read in the past, CD-R disks should store your data
> for quite some time. Many years, perhaps numbered in the 10s of years
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> http://EranMalloch.com
> Perth, Western Australia

Here in the UK you can get a 300GB external HD for 100 UKP (about $180)
If my math is correct :-O that equates to about 460 CDs.

I have 2 of these for backup (inc photos) so have 3 copies of my data.
When one fails, I will replace it.
Sure, everything fails eventually but I'm inclined to believe HDs are a
more proven technology (I've had 3 or 4 branded CDs become unreadable
within 5 years but never had a HD failure in 15 years)

It also makes management of your photos easier - they're all on one disk
rather than multiple optical disks.

Well that's my thoughts anyway :-)

Best Wishes,

Jeff
Hebee Jeebes - 28 Aug 2006 05:33 GMT
CDs and DVDs are not good viable long term storage. Their life spans are
much less than marketing would like to tell you. A few years if your really
luck. Not decades. Your best bet is to back up to CD (not DVD they are even
less reliable for long term storage) and a hard drive. Do new backups to
both mediums every 6 months or so depending on how many images you
accumulate. Myself I end up with about 6,000 images a month so I do new
backups every month to both CD and hard drive. The hard drive is a USB 2
drive that is only connected and powered when I do that backup. Once the
backup is done I unhook it and put it back in the vault.

R

>>>From what I have read in the past, CD-R disks should store your data
>> for quite some time. Many years, perhaps numbered in the 10s of years
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> Jeff
John Turco - 29 Aug 2006 06:10 GMT
> "Jeff" <newjtayl@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message

<edited, for brevity>

> > Here in the UK you can get a 300GB external HD for 100 UKP (about $180)
> > If my math is correct :-O that equates to about 460 CDs.
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> R

Hello, Hebee Jeebes:

You and the previous poster ("Jeff") are deluding yourselves, if you
think hard disks are infallible. Any HDD can die, at any moment; spend
some time, in <news:comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage>, and you'll see
what I mean.

That said, for daily backups of individual files, I employ a "Backpack
154030" 30GB, external USB hard drive (from the now-defunct company,
Micro Solutions). I've used it, for three years and leave it connected,
constantly, to facilitate copying.

For other backup strategies, my two computers' internal DVD writers are
helpful. Each can record to DVD-R/DVD-RW/DVD-RAM discs, with DVD-RAM
being the best of the bunch, for various reasons.

Finally, where did you get the notion that DVD's "are even less reliable
for long term storage" than CD's? This makes no sense, whatsoever!

Cordially,
          John Turco <jtur@concentric.net>
Jeff - 29 Aug 2006 20:14 GMT
> You and the previous poster ("Jeff") are deluding yourselves, if you
> think hard disks are infallible. Any HDD can die, at any moment; spend
> some time, in <news:comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage>, and you'll see
> what I mean.

Hi John,
I didn't say hard disks are infallible ;-)  I know they're not.
That's why I have 3, one internal and 2 external.
Chances of all 3 failing at once are 'slim'

I just find it easier having all my data backed up to 2 devices rather
than a load of CDs or DVDs.

Best Wishes,

Jeff (UK)
John Turco - 31 Aug 2006 07:03 GMT
> > You and the previous poster ("Jeff") are deluding yourselves, if you
> > think hard disks are infallible. Any HDD can die, at any moment; spend
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Jeff (UK)

Hello, Jeff:

You're correct; sorry, for any misunderstanding.

Cordially,
          John Turco <jtur@@concentric.net>
 
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