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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / Digital Photo / April 2006camera with 20mm wide angle?
What is currently the best non DSLR camera with a wide angle attachment that can get the equivalent of 20mm lens or wider? This would be used for shooting house interiors. I also like to be able to see the preview LCD from the front. This is because I want to shoot with the camera against a wall (to get the widest view). And this is why a DSLR is not good for this purpose. The buying guide at dpreview is no help in screening for a camera like this. > What is currently the best non DSLR camera with a wide angle attachment > that can get the equivalent of 20mm lens or wider? This would be used for [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > because I want to shoot with the camera against a wall (to get the widest > view). And this is why a DSLR is not good for this purpose. You can get just as close to the wall if you use an angle finder on a dSLR. (Although Canon's angle finders are expensive. I found the older non-magnifying version, and used it set me back US$70 or so. It is nicely made, though.) > The buying guide at dpreview is no help in screening for a camera like > this. Nikon has a wide angle attachment that gets some of their cameras to 19mm equivalent. I think Ricoh has one that makes it to 21mm equiv. Either the Canon 10-22 or the off-brand 10-20 zoom on an APS-C dSLR would be wider and better image quality. The best tool for that job would, of course, be the Sigma 12-24 on the Canon 5D. David J. Littleboy Tokyo, Japan >> What is currently the best non DSLR camera with a wide angle attachment >> that can get the equivalent of 20mm lens or wider? This would be used for [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > David J. Littleboy > Tokyo, Japan There is also the old trick of shooting through an open doorway or a window.  SignatureNeil Delete 'l' to reply >>> What is currently the best non DSLR camera with a wide angle attachment >>> that can get the equivalent of 20mm lens or wider? This would be used [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > There is also the old trick of shooting through an open doorway or a > window. Sounds like the OP is selling real estate, not fine art prints. Coolpix 950, 990, or 995 using the WC-E63 wide angle attachment goes to about 24mm equivalent with good quality and the camera can be adjusted so that the LCD is on the _front_. There's also a fisheye (FC-E8) available that goes 8-24 equivalent. Signature--John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) >>>> What is currently the best non DSLR camera with a wide angle >>>> attachment that can get the equivalent of 20mm lens or wider? [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > adjusted so that the LCD is on the _front_. There's also a fisheye > (FC-E8) available that goes 8-24 equivalent. Nikon CP5000 (far from current, but out there) with .68x Wide Angle Adapter goes to 19mm equiv, and makes nice 5MP pictures. http://static.flickr.com/45/129735574_ef7bc5883b_o.jpg SignatureFrank ess >>>>> What is currently the best non DSLR camera with a wide angle >>>>> attachment that can get the equivalent of 20mm lens or wider? [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > Adapter goes to 19mm equiv, and makes nice 5MP pictures. > http://static.flickr.com/45/129735574_ef7bc5883b_o.jpg Doesn't meet the requirement to be able to compose the shot with it pressed against a wall though. The S4 does that but it doesn't have a threaded adapter ring so using a wide-angle adapter is problematical. The 900 I've never actually heard of anybody having. Another option with many digital cameras is to use the video out and an auxiliary LCD to compose--the auxiliary LCD can be a video camera, a portable DVD player, a handheld TV, VR glasses, or a laptop among other options. Relatively clumsy solution though. The Olympus E-330 would be another option--it allows the LCD to be used as a waist-level finder--can't compose from the front but can from the top, and there are several lenses that span the 20mm range. It also allows the use of an auxiliary display. The Canon EOS D20a (note the "a"--it's not the same as the regular D20) should also allow the use of a video monitor for preview--I haven't been able to find any categoric statement to that effect. The same should be true of the coming Panasonic DMC-L1, which shares a lot of technology with the E-330. Neither of these, however, has a tilt-out LCD. A (much) more expensive option would be a medium format (most of which have waist-level finders) and a digital back. One could also rig something with duct tape and a mirror, but I suspect that that would reflect badly on one's image. Signature--John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) > One could also rig something with duct tape and a mirror, but I suspect that > that would reflect badly on one's image. Another possibility (not too crazy with an ultrawide, for a static subject like a RE interior) is to just aim without using the viewfinder or screen, then check the shot on the LCD, and try again if needed. > > Nikon CP5000 (far from current, but out there) with .68x Wide Angle > > Adapter goes to 19mm equiv, and makes nice 5MP pictures. > > http://static.flickr.com/45/129735574_ef7bc5883b_o.jpg > Doesn't meet the requirement to be able to compose the shot with it pressed > against a wall though. Why not? The CP5000 has a flip out LCD finder that can face forward. -hank >> > Nikon CP5000 (far from current, but out there) with .68x Wide Angle >> > Adapter goes to 19mm equiv, and makes nice 5MP pictures. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Why not? The CP5000 has a flip out LCD finder that can face forward. Nikon doesn't make that very clear in the product information on their site. Sounds like it should do the job then. > -hank Signature--John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) >>>>> What is currently the best non DSLR camera with a wide angle >>>>> attachment that can get the equivalent of 20mm lens or wider? [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] >Adapter goes to 19mm equiv, and makes nice 5MP pictures. >http://static.flickr.com/45/129735574_ef7bc5883b_o.jpg And great DOF too. -Rich >>>>>> What is currently the best non DSLR camera with a wide angle >>>>>> attachment that can get the equivalent of 20mm lens or wider? [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > And great DOF too. I wouldn't expect depth of field to be an issue with a 20mm lens. Signature--John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) > Sounds like the OP is selling real estate, not fine art prints. Coolpix > 950, 990, or 995 using the WC-E63 wide angle attachment goes to about 24mm [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 8-24 > equivalent. Yup, I want to take photos for real estate agents. coolpix 990 + WC-E63 is exactly my current setup I'm not satisfied with it, mainly because it's still not wide enough. It also has too much noise, stuck pixels, barrel distortion, and chromatic aberration. Fortunately most can be taken out with photoshop. Hard to believe this 6-year old dcam is the best setup I have. The FC-E8 is still selling for > $90 on ebay; I'm not sure it's wise to keep investing in this system. > Yup, I want to take photos for real estate agents. > coolpix 990 + WC-E63 is exactly my current setup [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > is still selling for > $90 on ebay; I'm not sure it's wise to keep > investing in this system. A 350D + 10-22 + angle finder would set you back on the order of US$1500. It's wider, the image quality is a lot better, and you get some of that back in less time photoshopping (assuming your time is worth money). David J. Littleboy Tokyo, Japan > A 350D + 10-22 + angle finder would set you back on the order of US$1500. > It's wider, the image quality is a lot better, and you get some of that > back in less time photoshopping (assuming your time is worth money). Nah. Already have 20D :) The one thing that I don't like with DSLR is the difficulty of reviewing the image. If it is against the wall, I cannot see the LCD. The 10-22 you're referring to is an EF-S lens. This type of lense do not work on all EOS cameras. Since I will eventually trade the 20D for a 5D or other full-frame dslr, EF-S lense is not worth getting. When there is ample space behind the camera, I do prefer to use the 20D. E.g. when shooting exterior of the house, or in large rooms. SNIP > Nah. Already have 20D :) > > The one thing that I don't like with DSLR is the difficulty of > reviewing the image. If it is against the wall, I cannot see the > LCD. You might consider "stitching". It'll solve your FoV issue, and allows a bit less distance to the main subject so you can squeeze yourself in behind the camera. It also produces much higher resolution images because you can use longer focal lenghts. It is however a bit more work, and you may benefit from a Pano-head on your tripod. Bart > You can get just as close to the wall if you use an angle finder on a > dSLR. (Although Canon's angle finders are expensive. I found the older > non-magnifying version, and used it set me back US$70 or so. It is nicely > made, though.) That's an idea. Although I need a few inches for my head when I lean over to use the angle finder, so I can't bud the camera against the wall. > Nikon has a wide angle attachment that gets some of their cameras to 19mm > equivalent. Will investigate this route. > Either the Canon 10-22 or the off-brand 10-20 zoom on an APS-C dSLR would > be wider and better image quality. > > The best tool for that job would, of course, be the Sigma 12-24 on the > Canon 5D. When the 5D drops to $2000... It just occured to me the Olympus E330 is a D-SLR with a flip out preview LCD. Unfortunately the LCD cannot be seen from the front :( Thanks for the suggestions. >> You can get just as close to the wall if you use an angle finder on a >> dSLR. (Although Canon's angle finders are expensive. I found the older [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > That's an idea. Although I need a few inches for my head when I lean over > to use the angle finder, so I can't butt the camera against the wall. I find that by switching eyes I can get the camera nearly flush to the wall and still see what's happening. It's really very good. (Although you also need a place for your body, which might be a problem sometimes.) >> Nikon has a wide angle attachment that gets some of their cameras to 19mm >> equivalent. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > When the 5D drops to $2000... Just wait a couple of years. Maybe not even that: it's already around US$2700 with rebated. David J. Littleboy Tokyo, Japan > > That's an idea. Although I need a few inches for my head when I lean over > > to use the angle finder, so I can't butt the camera against the wall. > > I find that by switching eyes I can get the camera nearly flush to the wall > and still see what's happening. It's really very good. (Although you also > need a place for your body, which might be a problem sometimes.) Are you guys using tripods? Because with a reasonable size tripod, the legs are going to limit how close you can get the camera to the wall anyway. (Unless you use a magic-arm type attachment, which will probably get in the picture with a 20mm lens). And without a tripod, I don't see how one could realistically use the flip out VF for framing while standing in front of the camera. Unless you pointed it up to reinvent the waist-level finder, I guess; in which case the angle finder attachment ought to work as well. >> > That's an idea. Although I need a few inches for my head when I lean >> > over to use the angle finder, so I can't butt the camera against the [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > the waist-level finder, I guess; in which case the angle finder > attachment ought to work as well. The wall is the brace--press it against the wall, compose, move head out of way, shoot. The Coolpix 990 seems like it was designed with this in mind. Signature--John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) > Are you guys using tripods? Because with a reasonable size > tripod, the legs are going to limit how close you can get the > camera to the wall anyway. A tabletop tripod held against the wall can be very useful. The Leitz/Minolta type is probably the best. I use a Manfrotto which works well for me. With a wide angle lens it sometimes is a bit tricky to make sure that no part of your body gets in the picture. Peter. Signaturepirwin@ktb.net > Are you guys using tripods? Because with a reasonable size > tripod, the legs are going to limit how close you can get the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the waist-level finder, I guess; in which case the angle finder > attachment ought to work as well. I use a tripod and pull in all the legs so it works like a monopod. I press the tripod and the camera against a room corner and I curl up next to it to shoot. The camera is 2-3 inches away from the wall corner. With a 24mm equivalent lens, it's not too hard to hide myself next to the camera. Don't have 20mm yet. It may require more contortion. Would using the self-timer help so you could actually get out the room? SignatureJoan http://www.flickr.com/photos/joan-in-manly : I use a tripod and pull in all the legs so it works like a monopod. I press : the tripod and the camera against a room corner and I curl up next to it to : shoot. The camera is 2-3 inches away from the wall corner. : : With a 24mm equivalent lens, it's not too hard to hide myself next to the : camera. Don't have 20mm yet. It may require more contortion. Of course, not every room looks its best from a corner. SignatureJoan http://www.flickr.com/photos/joan-in-manly : I use a tripod and pull in all the legs so it works like a monopod. I press : the tripod and the camera against a room corner and I curl up next to it to : shoot. The camera is 2-3 inches away from the wall corner. : : With a 24mm equivalent lens, it's not too hard to hide myself next to the : camera. Don't have 20mm yet. It may require more contortion. > Of course, not every room looks its best from a corner. That's a good point. I guess I pick corners without thinking because it provides the widest view, especially for small room, and looks more dynamic (strong diagonal lines). In the future I will also try other angles. > What is currently the best non DSLR camera with a wide angle attachment > that can get the equivalent of 20mm lens or wider? This would be used for [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > The buying guide at dpreview is no help in screening for a camera like > this. Hi. Do you really want to have your own photo included in every picture of a room. You will need rather long arms if you are going to be in front of a 20mm equiv lens, and not be in the picture when you press the shutter. Tripod against the wall and use a remote release. Roy G >What is currently the best non DSLR camera with a wide angle attachment that >can get the equivalent of 20mm lens or wider? This would be used for >shooting house interiors. Can't say for sure here because it's a bit like asking who makes the best sport's car for "you"? That would depend on a lot of things known only to "you", including "your" preferences. >I also like to be able to see the preview LCD from the front. This is >because I want to shoot with the camera against a wall (to get the widest >view). And this is why a DSLR is not good for this purpose. Don't know if your going to gain that much by being able to place the camera against the wall but if you feel this will work for you but you want a live LCD display from the camera to help you aim the camera just right, I have a suggestion that may be well worth your consideration. Most P&S camera provide a live LCD display option, some even have a swivel LCD like the Canon A610 & A620 that can be swung around so you can see a live LCD view from the front of the camera. However the 2" LCD may be too small for your needs in this situation. If that's the case here is a very simple solution to that problem: Connect the camera to a portable DVD player or LCD TV which has A/V inputs. The camera comes with the cable to connect it to a TV via the A/V output jack which most people only use to display their picture as a means of instantly sharing their pictures with other, such as @ a family event. However a TV, LCD or otherwise will also act as a *very large live LCD display*. If the camera has a wireless remote shutter release, that could be used also. If the camera of your choice dose not (A610/A620 does not), you can use the self timer which should give you enough time to get out of or get into the picture. It's just a thought because this way "you" get to select the size of the live picture display by what size monitor you connect it to. Also if being tethered to the camera is OK for your needs, you may want to consider wired remote control via the USB port & use of a notebook. Most Canon P&S cameras offer this feature including most of the Axxx line & even comes with the needed software but be advised that the "A610" dose *NOT* have this feature but it's higher resolution twin, the A620 *DOES*! Don't know if anything I offered helps you but I gave it my admittedly overly long 2 cents worth in the hopes that there is some value in this to you & or others. >The buying guide at dpreview is no help in screening for a camera like this. You may want to check the A620 here: http://www.steves-digicams.com/2005_reviews/a620.html You can check out a lot of other cameras here as well. A last note which works very well for me with Canon P&S cameras when taking indoor pictures of rooms with stationary objects, is to set it to Tv mode with a shutter speed to 1.3 seconds or longer & turn off the flash, manual WB usually helps too. The reason this works is because 1.3 seconds or longer automatically activates "dark field noise reduction" which will make a big especially with P&S cameras. It's great for capturing the atmosphere/ambiance of a place with it's natural lighting. Respectfully, DHB "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 There is a new 5mp P&S Kodak out with 2 lenses, it might go to 24mm. it has a built in 180 degree panarama stitching mode, it is cheap and worth checking out. >What is currently the best non DSLR camera with a wide angle attachment that >can get the equivalent of 20mm lens or wider? This would be used for [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >The buying guide at dpreview is no help in screening for a camera like this. Do panorama shots. > What is currently the best non DSLR camera with a wide angle attachment that > can get the equivalent of 20mm lens or wider? This would be used for [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > The buying guide at dpreview is no help in screening for a camera like this. The CP5000 with the wide angle adapter is the only solution for a non-D-SLR. OTOH, if you want the best solution, use the Olympus E-330 D-SLR, with the Olympus 7-14mm zoom lens, hooked up to an external video monitor. This is the only D-SLR with live preview. The down side is that to get to 20mm, you need the 7-14mm (14-28mm) zoom lens, which is expensive. This is one of the biggest problems with the 4:3 system, the lens selection isn't great, and getting to extreme wide-angle is much more expensive than it is on Canon or Nikon. >> What is currently the best non DSLR camera with a wide angle attachment >> that can get the equivalent of 20mm lens or wider? This would be used for [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > The CP5000 with the wide angle adapter is the only solution for a > non-D-SLR. Many Nikon models will work in this range--there is a .21 wide angle adapter in addition to the .63. > OTOH, if you want the best solution, use the Olympus E-330 D-SLR, with > the Olympus 7-14mm zoom lens, hooked up to an external video monitor. > This is the only D-SLR with live preview. The Canon EOS D20a also has live preview. You don't need an external monitor with the E-330, but you would with the D20a. > The down side is that to get to 20mm, you need the 7-14mm (14-28mm) zoom > lens, which is expensive. This is one of the biggest problems with the > 4:3 system, the lens selection isn't great, and getting to extreme > wide-angle is much more expensive than it is on Canon or Nikon. Signature--John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
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