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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / Digital Photo / December 2005

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I hesitate to ask... Canon Rebel XT or Nikon D50

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Moi - 28 Dec 2005 23:12 GMT
Hi!

While I've pretty much made up my mind on which camera to go with, and
I've read pages upon pages on the internet, I still have niggling doubts.

One difference between the two that I have read about is how the images
with the Canon Rebel XT tend to be softer than those with the Nikon D50.
 Excuse the newbie question here, but isn't that a matter of the lens
rather than the camera itself?

While the Canon Rebel XT has more features that I want, the Nikon D50
felt so good in my hands. I couldn't believe the feel alone would sway
me so much! It wasn't that the Rebel felt bad, but when compared side by
side with the D50, I liked the solid feel of the Nikon much better.

Other differences that swayed me...I found both in commentaries and in
image comparisons that the Canon had a truer colour representation than
the Nikon; the Canon has a mirror lock-up; the Nikon has a spot meter;
the Nikon ISO starts at 200, whereas the Canon starts at 100; and
lastly, there is that difference in MP and accompanying software
packages although these last two are not as critical for me as other
features - desirable yes, but not a deal-breaker.

I would especially appreciate hearing from anyone with experience using
both cameras, although I would like opinions from users of each camera
as to why they love (or hate) their particular choice.

In the end I know the key things are personal likes and dislikes along
with the user's abilities, but I guess I'm hoping for one statement that
will help me make a definitive choice. I know I found that one statement
when I was trying to determine if I should go for a slightly higher end
choice (Canon 20D vs. Nikon D70) or a more affordable choice (Canon
Rebel XT vs. Nikon D50).

Thanks to all with helpful responses!

Deb
Smudger - 28 Dec 2005 23:19 GMT
> Hi!
>
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>
> Deb

Deb - the Nikon is the better camera - better build, better quality for your
money.  With respect the softness of the images you'll find that most DSLRs
will produce JPEG images softer than you'll be used to if you've used a
consumer digicam.  You can sharpen your images in quite sophisticated ways
using Photoshop (lab sharpening is the best but it's a bit fiddly to do).
pixel_a_ted - 28 Dec 2005 23:32 GMT
Each camera manufacturer also decides on the default level of softness
for its images. This can usually be adjusted via camera menu as well as
with imaging software.

I'm curious as to what that "one statement" was that made you decide on
the XT/D50 rather than the 20D/D70.
Moi - 29 Dec 2005 05:59 GMT
Hi pixel_a_ted!

To answer your question, I suppose what it boiled down to for me was
cost. The 20D and D70 were a little more than I felt I could afford, but
 I was willing to do it if I could find evidence that either of these
had a significant superiority to their less expensive counterparts. Then
I read the following:

"If you're considering what camera to get (Nikon d70 or canon
rebel XT) a word of advice that helped me tremendously is
that don't think about what camera it is you're getting right
now because you'll outgrow your camera and upgrade to
something better that suits your needs in the future. these
two cameras are entry level (granted, they could give a run
for the money of their more expensive siblings) you should
look at what you see yourself owning in terms of lenses,
flashes and other accessories in the future. these camera
bodies will come and go but the accessories are your
investment."

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home;jsessionid=Dzfkfqb5pB!1424249442
?O=NavBar&A=getItemDetail&Q=&sku=371189&is=REG&si=rev#anchorToReadReviews


This statement made me realize the purpose I had behind getting an entry
level digital SLR -- to learn about the art of photography and to learn
about lighting using a format (digital) that would allow me to see
instant results. I already have a film SLR (Minolta), but I don't know
enough about photography to know if the shots I'm taking will yield a
decent photograph. With digital you can at least have a good idea. For
instance, a city skyline shot I took with my Minolta turned out entirely
different than I had anticipated due in large part to the lighting. I
shot it as dusk was approaching and I expected a much more vibrant shot
than I ended up with, which was a darker, blurred picture. (I didn't
have a tripod, but I did have a an object I was able to set the entire
camera body on. I think I would have been better off doing a hand held
shot because even though the camera was on a relatively flat surface, I
likely moved the camera when I pressed the shutter.) With a digital
post-view display image, I would have seen the problems before I left
the site.

To make a long story short - why spend more when I'm still a novice? I
got caught up in some of the features of the D70 and 20D, which I
realized after reading this guy's comments. At my level of knowledge,
I'd likely be better off spending the difference in cost on better
lenses and extras, which I could then use with a future camera. It makes
sense, don't you think? :)

Deb

> Each camera manufacturer also decides on the default level of softness
> for its images. This can usually be adjusted via camera menu as well as
> with imaging software.
>
> I'm curious as to what that "one statement" was that made you decide on
> the XT/D50 rather than the 20D/D70.
bj286@scn.org - 31 Dec 2005 06:19 GMT
Canon's 50/1.4 is better than its 50/1.8, while Nikon's 50/1.8 is
better than its 50/1.4.

Canon does not have 85/1.4. Its 85/1.2 is of course more expensive.

Pentax has more affordable 14/2.8 and 24/2.

http://digitcamera.tripod.com/#slr
Floyd Davidson - 31 Dec 2005 07:55 GMT
>Canon's 50/1.4 is better than its 50/1.8, while Nikon's 50/1.8 is
>better than its 50/1.4.
>
>Canon does not have 85/1.4. Its 85/1.2 is of course more expensive.

Might note that the Nikon 85mm f/1.8 lens is one of the best
lenses ever made.  It has a long history, and the current AF
model is the best ever.

>Pentax has more affordable 14/2.8 and 24/2.
>
>http://digitcamera.tripod.com/#slr

--
Floyd L. Davidson           http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)                      floyd@apaflo.com
Bruce Hoult - 29 Dec 2005 00:25 GMT
> In the end I know the key things are personal likes and dislikes along
> with the user's abilities, but I guess I'm hoping for one statement that
> will help me make a definitive choice. I know I found that one statement
> when I was trying to determine if I should go for a slightly higher end
> choice (Canon 20D vs. Nikon D70) or a more affordable choice (Canon
> Rebel XT vs. Nikon D50).

When I was looking recently, it seemed that about 80% of the price
difference between the D50 and the D70s could be explained by the better
kit lens on the D70s.

Signature

Bruce |  41.1670S | \  spoken |          -+-
Hoult | 174.8263E | /\ here.  | ----------O----------

GTO - 29 Dec 2005 01:07 GMT
If you have no expensive collection of Nikon glass, get the 350D. It offers
more for less. If you need a camera that is better built, get the 20D or the
D200. - What will be the next Canon, I wonder?

Gregor

> Hi!
>
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>
> Deb
Peter A. Stavrakoglou - 29 Dec 2005 02:11 GMT
> If you have no expensive collection of Nikon glass, get the 350D. It
> offers more for less. If you need a camera that is better built, get the
> 20D or the D200. - What will be the next Canon, I wonder?

How does the Rebel XT offer more for less?  The 2MP advantage in the sensor
is not as big a difference as some would think.  The D50 is better built and
costs less.
GTO - 29 Dec 2005 03:53 GMT
The 350D supports better auto-focus, has a professional MLU and offers a
battery grip for folks who want to shoot long sequences without the fear of
running out of gas. The 350D has support for DSLR type memory cards (compact
flash). (SD cards are for point&shoot digicams.) Last but not least, the
350D supports very low noise at ISO 100. The D50 does not. Today, the 350D
is the best low-cost DSLR you can get.

Gregor

>> If you have no expensive collection of Nikon glass, get the 350D. It
>> offers more for less. If you need a camera that is better built, get the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> sensor is not as big a difference as some would think.  The D50 is better
> built and costs less.
Peter A. Stavrakoglou - 29 Dec 2005 11:13 GMT
> The 350D supports better auto-focus, has a professional MLU and offers a
> battery grip for folks who want to shoot long sequences without the fear
> of running out of gas. The 350D has support for DSLR type memory cards
> (compact flash). (SD cards are for point&shoot digicams.) Last but not
> least, the 350D supports very low noise at ISO 100. The D50 does not.
> Today, the 350D is the best low-cost DSLR you can get.

What this really means is that the 350D offers more for "more", not less.
There are some areas in which the D50 has advantages over the 350D besides
price.
Bill Funk - 29 Dec 2005 11:50 GMT
>The 350D supports better auto-focus, has a professional MLU and offers a
>battery grip for folks who want to shoot long sequences without the fear of
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Gregor

I think you're going a little overboard when you say, "The 350D has
support for DSLR type memory cards (compact flash). (SD cards are for
point&shoot digicams.)"
Where did you get this from? CF and SD do the same thing, just using
different form factors.

Signature

Bill Funk
Replace "g" with "a"
funktionality.blogspot.com

Joan - 29 Dec 2005 12:25 GMT
Plus one more thing:  my Toshiba laptop has an SD reader and no CF reader.
This may be because Toshiba invented the SD card.

Signature

Joan
http://joan.colley.name:85

> I think you're going a little overboard when you say, "The 350D has
> support for DSLR type memory cards (compact flash). (SD cards are for
> point&shoot digicams.)"
> Where did you get this from? CF and SD do the same thing, just using
> different form factors.
David J Taylor - 29 Dec 2005 12:35 GMT
> Plus one more thing:  my Toshiba laptop has an SD reader and no CF
> reader. This may be because Toshiba invented the SD card.

The same is true of my Acer laptop.  I wish all my cameras used SD!

David
Skip M - 29 Dec 2005 15:25 GMT
> Plus one more thing:  my Toshiba laptop has an SD reader and no CF reader.
> This may be because Toshiba invented the SD card.

That's ok, my Sony Vaio laptop has a Memory Stick reader, but not a CF or SD
card reader.  I wonder why that is? ;-)

Signature

Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com

Bill Funk - 29 Dec 2005 19:44 GMT
>Plus one more thing:  my Toshiba laptop has an SD reader and no CF reader.
>This may be because Toshiba invented the SD card.

My 'new' (about 1 year old) HP laptop has one of those "many in two"
card reader setups, but no CF slot. We've figured it has to do with
space considerations; a CF slot is as big as those two slots.
So, I have a Cardbus CF adapter.

Signature

Bill Funk
Replace "g" with "a"
funktionality.blogspot.com

ASAAR - 29 Dec 2005 21:00 GMT
> My 'new' (about 1 year old) HP laptop has one of those "many in two"
> card reader setups, but no CF slot. We've figured it has to do with
> space considerations; a CF slot is as big as those two slots.
> So, I have a Cardbus CF adapter.

 HP only puts CF slots in their "Pro" laptops.  Yeah, that's the
ticket.

:)
Skip M - 29 Dec 2005 15:24 GMT
>>The 350D supports better auto-focus, has a professional MLU and offers a
>>battery grip for folks who want to shoot long sequences without the fear
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Where did you get this from? CF and SD do the same thing, just using
> different form factors.

One might also point out that the Canon 1D mkIIn uses both CF and SD cards,
and there aren't many cameras more "professional" than that one...

Signature

Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com

Peter A. Stavrakoglou - 29 Dec 2005 15:37 GMT
> One might also point out that the Canon 1D mkIIn uses both CF and SD
> cards, and there aren't many cameras more "professional" than that one...

My wife's Fuji S7000 uses xD and CF cards. both can be inserted and when the
xD card is full the camera writes to the CF card.  Since it uses the
"professional" type of CF memory then it must be a professional camera.
Wow, all this time I just thought it was a very good prosumer camera.
U-Know-Who - 29 Dec 2005 03:53 GMT
> Hi!
>
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>
> Deb

Buy the camera that you like. Your questions are pointless. You have made up
your mind. Sure, the XT has more capabilities, but if you like the feel of
the Nikon, pull your wallet/purse out.
Moi - 29 Dec 2005 06:06 GMT
Hi U-Know-Who,

Thanks for your response, but although you view my questions as
pointless, for me they aren't because I like BOTH cameras. If I had
money to fritter away I'd buy both. And between the Rebel XT and the
D50, it's the D50 that is actually cheaper in price. Although I am
leaning towards one, there is still enough doubt in my mind to wonder if
I'm making the right decision. Many sites with comments about both
cameras state that either way I can't lose, so I don't think it will be
a disaster with either one, but right now I can't help feel very indecisive.

Deb

> Buy the camera that you like. Your questions are pointless. You have made up
> your mind. Sure, the XT has more capabilities, but if you like the feel of
> the Nikon, pull your wallet/purse out.
Derek Fountain - 29 Dec 2005 10:45 GMT
> Many sites with comments about both
> cameras state that either way I can't lose, so I don't think it will be
> a disaster with either one, but right now I can't help feel very
> indecisive.

You're worrying a little too much. Both are fine cameras and you've
clearly done enough research to see that either will make you happy. You
need something to swing it, and you have that: the Nikon felt right in
your hands. That's a way bigger plus than any technical difference
between two very similar and very capable cameras.

Go buy the Nikon, you won't be disappointed.
Bruce Graham - 30 Dec 2005 01:33 GMT
>  > Many sites with comments about both
> > cameras state that either way I can't lose, so I don't think it will be
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Go buy the Nikon, you won't be disappointed.

The advice above and that from RoseW in another post is correct.  Feel is
important (and both of these cameras and systems will do your job well,
once you learn the systems).  

I have the Canon (the decision was a no-brainer for me because I already
had 5 EF Canon lenses) and initially I disliked the small feel of the
350D.  I quickly got used to it, but you should act on your *own*
feelings.  If you are still unsure, try both again and promptly buy the
one you like, then spend your time learning it rather than worrying about
which camera..
Mikko Harjula - 29 Dec 2005 12:32 GMT
> think it will be a disaster with either one, but right now I can't help feel
> very indecisive.

You wisely said earlier that you go for an entry level body because the lenses
are the real investment.  So don't base your decision on features of the entry
level body but the selection, price and quality of lenses you will want in the
future.

Signature

Mikko Harjula                   puh. 010-525 1555
mikko.harjula@mediware.fi       gsm  040-778 6669

Bill Funk - 29 Dec 2005 11:52 GMT
>> Hi!
>>
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>your mind. Sure, the XT has more capabilities, but if you like the feel of
>the Nikon, pull your wallet/purse out.

I agree.
If neither one has a feature set that, to you, makes one better than
the other, then choose the one that just feels better.
In this case, that means the Nikon.

Signature

Bill Funk
Replace "g" with "a"
funktionality.blogspot.com

RoseW - 29 Dec 2005 05:29 GMT
| Hi!
|
| While I've pretty much made up my mind on which camera to go with, and
| I've read pages upon pages on the internet, I still have niggling doubts.
| While the Canon Rebel XT has more features that I want, the Nikon D50
felt
| so good in my hands.
| Thanks to all with helpful responses!
|
| Deb

Of all your thoughts posted the line that stood out for me was 'While
the Canon Rebel Xt has more features that I want, the Nikon D50 felt so
good in my hands'
If you are going to be using the camera frequently then each and every
time will the observation come into your conscious thought  as to how it
feels?  Previous to the Rebel Xt I picked up the model 300 and
immediately the feel in my hands was not right and I put the camera
down, walked away. I really wanted to get that range of camera. A year
later the Rebel Xt came out and the moment I held it, the thing 'FIT'
into my hands and it has been a fit ever since.
So if the Nikon D50 felt like part of your hands then it will be used in
an unconscious manner and you will likely use it up to its maximum.
Fumbling around with a cumbersome object in your hand may forecast a
'dust collector'.
Rose
Moi - 29 Dec 2005 06:44 GMT
Hi Rose!

Thanks for your insight! It wasn't that the Canon felt wrong. In fact,
when I picked it up I was excited about it because I was worried how it
would feel after reading all of the negative comments on how light and
small of a camera it is. All my worries were put to rest. But when I
held the Nikon it just felt like a "real" camera to me in comparison to
the Canon. I was really surprised that the feel of a camera could make
such a difference.

What you said about this observation coming into my conscious thought as
to how it feels is part of what concerns me if I get the XT.

I still remain undecided though. *sigh*

Deb

> Of all your thoughts posted the line that stood out for me was 'While
> the Canon Rebel Xt has more features that I want, the Nikon D50 felt so
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> 'dust collector'.
> Rose
bj286@scn.org - 29 Dec 2005 05:51 GMT
Minolta 5D: Anti-Shake
Pentax DS: TTL Flash
Nikon D50: 1/500s X Sync
Canon 350D: 8MP

http://digitcamera.tripod.com/#slr
GTO - 29 Dec 2005 07:11 GMT
You may add the MLU to the Canon 350D. A lot of people try to use their
D50/D70 with available light for close-up photography and find themselves
easily fighting the problem that their equipment "does not focus". Actually,
it does focus. But what they see in their pictures is blur due to the mirror
slap. It's amazing to see how many amateurs want to use their cameras for
close-up photography without a flash. So, the available MLU is a great plus.
One which the D50 and D70 lack. BTW, Nikon added it to "my upcoming" D200
;-)

Gregor

> Minolta 5D: Anti-Shake
> Pentax DS: TTL Flash
> Nikon D50: 1/500s X Sync
> Canon 350D: 8MP
>
> http://digitcamera.tripod.com/#slr
Skip M - 29 Dec 2005 15:29 GMT
> You may add the MLU to the Canon 350D. A lot of people try to use their
> D50/D70 with available light for close-up photography and find themselves
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>>
>> http://digitcamera.tripod.com/#slr

The only thing is, MLU is so buried in the menus/custom function labyrinth
that few have the patience to burrow their way down to it.  I know I don't,
and I've been fiddling with Canon's MLU for years.  I miss the simplicity of
the old FD series cameras.

Signature

Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com

Philip Homburg - 29 Dec 2005 17:07 GMT
>You may add the MLU to the Canon 350D. A lot of people try to use their
>D50/D70 with available light for close-up photography and find themselves
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>One which the D50 and D70 lack. BTW, Nikon added it to "my upcoming" D200
>;-)

I wonder how much of this blur is due to the use of a cheap tripod or the
lack of a remote shutter release.

It seems to me that you can usually close the aperture a bit more (or
add a ND filter or block the light a bit, etc.) to reach shutter speeds of
1 second or more.

Making sure that the subject (for example a flower) doesn't move also tends
to be a problem.

Signature

That was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it
could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done
by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make.
    -- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency

per - 29 Dec 2005 11:29 GMT
The D70s design is an older generation than the D50 or the 350, which shows
in more noise at high ISO compared to the others.
Mening that D50 is newer and better than the D70s, only lacking some
features that you may or may not miss.
The differences between lenses will be greater than the difference between
the D50 or the 350.
But, the cheap 18-55 kit lenses do not show the full potential of either.
The Nikon 18-70 lens is the most cost effective way to get quality pics.
Go for that one if you do not plan to spend big $ on pro Nikon or Canon
L-lenses.
Peter A. Stavrakoglou - 29 Dec 2005 15:50 GMT
> The D70s design is an older generation than the D50 or the 350, which
> shows in more noise at high ISO compared to the others.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Go for that one if you do not plan to spend big $ on pro Nikon or Canon
> L-lenses.

There's also the third-party lenses, some of them being very good choices
for less money than the camera manufacturer's counterparts.  I bought my D50
without a lens and opted for a Tokina 28-70mm F2.8 ATX PRO lens for
starters.  It's very good, built like a tank, and I have no regrets from
what I've seen thus far.  I also have a Sigma DSLR and the Sigma EX lenses I
use give excellent results - the 50mm EX, 105mm EX, and the 24-70mm EX.  I
haven't used any Tamron lenses but I'm willing to try a few with my D50.
k-man - 31 Dec 2005 06:57 GMT
D50 "better" than the D70s?  Define "better."  Depends on the
photographer's requirements.

I agree...  the Nikon 18-70mm is a very nice lens for the money.  Not
very fast aperture-wise (though it's not terribly slow either), it's
tack sharp and nice and contrasty.

I bought the D70s kit, which, at the time I bought it, was only $100
more than the D70s body alone.  The 18-70mm for essentially $100 seemed
like a steal.

For the XT, I've seen kits offered for only $20 more than what the same
store asked for the body alone.  For $20, take whatever lens comes with
the camera and run with it.  Could probably pull in more than $20 for
it on eBay if you don't like it! :)
per - 31 Dec 2005 12:25 GMT
> D50 "better" than the D70s?  Define "better."
Lower noise from the D50 than the D70s is probably the most important
difference.
/per
k-man - 31 Dec 2005 16:28 GMT
Thanks.  I agree.  Particularly for higher ISO's.  I myself shoot 200
90% of the time anyway.  The D70s offers in-camera noise-reduction.
Though, Nikon recommends using it for shots greater than 30 seconds
exposure.
k-man - 30 Dec 2005 06:24 GMT
Hi Deb:

I consider myself an amateur photographer.  I shot with a Minolta 600si
35mm film camera for the last 7 years and moved to digital only a few
months ago.  Since then, I've shot a wedding with a Nikon D70s, a
Baptism with a Nikon D50, a backyard party with a Canon 20D and some
basic indoor shots with a Canon Rebel XT (while demonstrating
photography 101 to a friend (who had just gotten the Rebel XT)).

In the end, photography is all about the pictures and the Nikon D70s,
Nikon D50, Canon 20D and Canon Rebel XT all can take great pictures.
Don't worry about how this camera's sharper or how that camera's got
this kind of color.  One thing I loved about my 600si was that I turned
it on, set the aperture and maybe the metering (spot vs. full, etc.)
and took a picture.  That was it.  I did color adjustments, etc. after
scanning in the developed film.  In fact, for digital, I started out by
turning all of the automated color, sharpening, toning, etc. features
OFF.  Only after experience did I turn on what I felt I needed to turn
on.  For example, during post-processing, I found myself bumping up the
saturation for nearly every shot.  So, because of my own preference, I
decided to save myself some time and have the camera bump up the
saturation on all shots for me so that I didn't have to worry about it
during post processing.

What you should worry about is what you want to do as a photographer.
Do you want to shoot sports?  Landscapes?  Screaming babies?  Birds?

In terms of a camera, think about the features you think you'll need
(example: for sports, you'll want many frames per second and fast
buffering).  For night scenes requiring you to shoot at a higher ISO
range, you'll want something with low noise (the Canon 20D has very low
noise at higher ISO ranges compared to the Nikon D50 or D70 (or D70s)).

In terms of lenses, think about the focal lengths and apertures you
think you'll most need.  Check out what Nikon and Canon have to offer.
Consider price and other features.  For example, maybe you would like
something with image stabilization (Canon) or vibration reduction
(Nikon's system).  If so, then are those features offered in your price
range?  If so, then do those lenses offer the performance you desire?
Which MFR offers what?

If you find that both camera systems offer similar features and prices,
then, yeah, if you have a choice, consider which camera feels better in
your hands!  One of the things I loved about my Minolta 600si was the
weight (nice and heavy) and ergonomics.  Looking through that giant
viewfinder was great and hearing that nice mechanical shutter-clink
followed by the sound of the film advancing was music to my ears and
made taking pictures a blast.  Ease of use was great too.  I could
change settings as quickly as I could snap off a shot.  Enough about my
600si.

All in all, I went with a Nikon D70s.  My brother's got a Canon 20D.
And even though I could share his nice, expensive lenses, I went with
Nikon anyway.  First, I'm narrow minded and just had to have a Nikon
since that's just the brand I've always wanted.  Second, I wanted to
get into flash photography and prefer Nikon's flash system.  I liked
that the D70s could act as a commander and fire off a slave flash
(which allowed me to buy the SB-600 (vs. SB-800), which free'd up some
money for some other stuff, like an IR remote, nicer UV filter, bigger
CF card).  (D50 cannot do commander mode).

My opinion about the D50?  Great camera.  Compared to D70s, the D50
cannot do commander mode and I prefer the D70s' build quality and size.
I think the feature set is otherwise similar.

My opinion about the XT?  It takes great pictures.  However, I don't
like it in my hands.  Too small for me.  I can't hold it very well and
I have trouble quickly accessing the features.  With a big lens on it,
it's off balance for me.  Not very comfortable for me.

My opinion about the 20D?  Beautiful camera.  Low noise at higher
ISO's.  And the 5 FPS is great for increasing your odds of getting a
good picture while chasing around kids at a birthday party. :)

My opinion about 6 MP vs. 8 MP?  Don't fall into the trap of the MP
wars.  Unless you plan on doing a lot of heavy cropping and/or a lot of
very large prints, you won't notice the difference (besides the
additional filesize).  I've gotten a beautiful 12 X 18-inch print from
a 3.2 MP point-and-shoot.

Kevin
Moi - 31 Dec 2005 11:33 GMT
Hi Kevin,

Thanks so much for your insights!

Regarding what I want to do as a photographer...well I see myself using
my camera primarily for landscapes. I'm hoping to do a bit more
travelling in the future. Even without travelling I have a lot of
subject matter right here in Hawai`i, where I currently reside. Aside
from the usual beach stuff, palm trees, sea turtles and marine life
(whales and dolphins -- underwater stuff is something for the future), I
also want to be able to photograph the active volcano both during the
day and after dark. I've seen the volcano after dark and aside from the
glow of the flowing lava it is a black atmosphere -- there are no lights
around. This is what made me wonder about the mirror lock-up, if this
might be an advantage, or if all I need is a high ISO. (Depending on
where you're at, the lava does ooze at an incredibly slow pace.) I also
like taking macro shots of flowers. Don't ask me why, but it's something
that holds a certain amount of appeal for me.

Excuse the question but, what is the difference between image
stabilization (that you mentioned the Canon has) versus vibration
reduction (that you said Nikon has)?

> Looking through that giant
> viewfinder was great and hearing that nice mechanical shutter-clink
> followed by the sound of the film advancing was music to my ears and
> made taking pictures a blast.

I completely agree! I remember the Pentax ME I had as a kid. The
difference is that I seem to recall having to advance the film manually.
I don't believe it was automatic. It was just recently that I decided I
needed to get back into photography, with the exception of learning more
this time. It's been a long time, but I'm excited over the prospect.

> First, I'm narrow minded and just had to have a Nikon
> since that's just the brand I've always wanted.

I can understand that. When I bought the Minolta, I lusted after the
Nikon, but given my financial situation at the time and the fact I'm
still a photo novice, I opted for a less expensive entry level film SLR.

I've read about the 6 MP versus the 8 MP situation and I'm aware that
the advantage is primarily with regards to cropping.

The one feature that bothers me about the Nikon is the fact it starts at
200 ISO. Why not 100? If I remember correctly, there is a difference in
grain with film camera, so isn't it noticeable with digital?

Thanks again for your comments!

Deb
WDYVET - 30 Dec 2005 07:08 GMT
>Hi!
>
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>
>Deb

Both good cameras, Canon in menu allows u to sharpen the picture. Canon has
more features (if U need them) U will not see any difference in picture
quality (ok a little maybe) going from the Rebel to the 20d, U will see a big
difference on the 2 models from Nikon. I would advise getting the cheaper
Canon but if U want the Nikon I would move up, there were alot of changes
from the D50 to the d70. 8 vs 6 is a difference U have that much more for
croping, adjusting the exposure etc. Also depending if U want larger pictures.
This was an old argument when Nikon had nothing to compete with a lower end
camera with the megapixels, Now they do stop using this argument.  If U can
wait about 2 months canon is annousing the replcement for the 20d so 20d will
come down in price. I think. I have a 20d, the 5d and had the rebel. I would
also look at the menu system how easy to use etc. Higher ISO Canon does
better, Canon makes their sensors Nikon buys from Sony. Nothing wrong with
that but Canon was able to build the sensor for higher ISO. Dont get me wrong
I think Nikon is a very good camera too. I stayed with Canon because of my
lenses, thats why most people select one vs the other then try and justify.
But I will say more Nikon users are moving to Canon than canon users to Nikon.
Watch football on Sunday and see canon. U cant go wron with either choice.
good luck!

Signature

reheien@sbcglobal.net

Rich - 30 Dec 2005 22:44 GMT
The Rebel XT with a decent lens instead of the kit lens.
-Rich
cjcampbell - 31 Dec 2005 08:53 GMT
> One difference between the two that I have read about is how the images
> with the Canon Rebel XT tend to be softer than those with the Nikon D50.
>   Excuse the newbie question here, but isn't that a matter of the lens
> rather than the camera itself?

Not necessarily. All digital cameras have sharpening algorithms in
their software. Some of these algorithms are more agressive than
others. It comes down to a matter of personal preference.

In the case of these two cameras, though, it hardly matters at all, as
you can set sharpening to match your own taste, or not at all. I always
use no sharpening, preferring to do my own sharpening in
post-processing.

> While the Canon Rebel XT has more features that I want, the Nikon D50
> felt so good in my hands. I couldn't believe the feel alone would sway
> me so much! It wasn't that the Rebel felt bad, but when compared side by
> side with the D50, I liked the solid feel of the Nikon much better.

Ain't it the truth. Nikon does a lot better job with ergonomics; Canon
is more innovative. For me, there were no features that Canon offered
that I could not live without, so I went with Nikon. And, as you note
below, this is only the beginning of it.

> Other differences that swayed me...I found both in commentaries and in
> image comparisons that the Canon had a truer colour representation than
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> packages although these last two are not as critical for me as other
> features - desirable yes, but not a deal-breaker.

Yes. And then there is menu accessibility and button location. Nikon
likes to make almost everything available from a rocker button and a
couple dials all accessible with your thumb. I really like that. Canon
scatters buttons and dials all over the place. Does that mean I could
not learn to use a Canon? Of course not. But it does make the learning
curve a little steeper.

Given the choice between mirror lock-up and spotmeter, it is a toss. I
think I would use one about as often as the other. If the exposure is
so long that you need mirror lock-up, you are likely to have other
vibrations that are going to affect the picture more -- few cameras are
operated in a vacuum. Trucks drive by, gusts of wind come up, etc., so
maybe mirror lock-up is not nearly as critical as people think. OTOH, I
never use the spotmeter, either. If the subject is backlit or has some
other problem that would seem to mandate a spotmeter, I find the
problem is easier to fix in Photoshop. The lower limit on ISO is not
real, either.

> In the end I know the key things are personal likes and dislikes along
> with the user's abilities, but I guess I'm hoping for one statement that
> will help me make a definitive choice.

I guess you have to choose between ergonomics and the bleeding edge of
technology. :-) Heck, I like both of these cameras a lot. I really
don't see how you could go very wrong with either one of them.
 
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