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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / Digital Photo / September 2005

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Advice Needed!

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Kevin M. - 29 Sep 2005 00:40 GMT
Hi:

Not sure this is place to post a question like this, please excuse if it is
not.

Here's the issue: my wife is looking for a home use digital camera that does
not have what she calls the "annoying delay" between the time she depresses
the shutter to the time the image is recorded.

What she is referring to is her unfamilarity with depressing the shutter
partially to activate the camera sensors etc..She is used to pocket 35mm
cameras on which she could jsut fully depress the shutter in one quick
motion and take the pic.

Rather than risk being misled by some salesperson somewhere, I am tapping
into the best info base there is: end users!!

Can any one steer me to a suitable home use camera that fits her needs? Do
they even exist?

Any help greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

KM
David J. Littleboy - 29 Sep 2005 01:05 GMT
> Hi:
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> does not have what she calls the "annoying delay" between the time she
> depresses the shutter to the time the image is recorded.

That annoying delay arises because the camera uses the CCD to focus, and the
frame rate from the CCD is slow.

One solution would be the Canon 350D. However, be careful to only use lenses
with fast-focusing built-in motors, such as the Canon USM lenses. (I have
the Tamron 28-75/2.8, which is fine optically, but focusing is slow).

The 350D is a bit larger than the low-end P&S cameras, but it's really tiny
for a dSLR.

> Can any one steer me to a suitable home use camera that fits her needs? Do
> they even exist?

The Nikon D50 (or D70) is probably good as well. For the long term (since
lenses are expensive and you will want to continue using them when you buy a
new body three years from now) there's a raging angels-on-the-heads-of-pins
argument as to whether Nikon's insistence on packing insanely too many
pixels into a 1.5x sensor approach or Canon's far more expensive full-frame
sensor approach is the right way to go, but the bottom line is that both
mfrs will be offering upgrade paths to higher resolution sensors in the
future, so your lens investment won't be wasted (but if you get the Canon,
only buy one EF-S lens!).

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
alex - 29 Sep 2005 08:03 GMT
>> Hi:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> David J. Littleboy
> Tokyo, Japan

The 17-55mm lens you get the "kit" version of the 350D whilst not the best
lens in the world is a good all-rounder it seems, and I think is an EF-S
(short) lense.  I have found it fine as a starter to get used to the camera
on my 350D.

Shop around too, if you're in the UK, many places will price match ".co.uk"
sites. ;o)

Aex
Celcius - 29 Sep 2005 14:32 GMT
> > Hi:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> David J. Littleboy
> Tokyo, Japan

David,

You're absolutely right. However, the 350D is not a "point and shoot"
camera. The lag might be shortened, but the results might not be as good if
it's used as a point and shoot. I have the same camera with the 17mm -85mm
lens. I found out that there are occasions where subjects will not be in
focus. I wrote a post recently in this group and my eyes opened up to
reality. Many a time, if you shoot on automatic or even P mode, the lens
will open up optimally and speed will be set accordingly, However, when the
lens opens up, the DOP will be narrower and with "muti subjects" (people
around a table for example), some may not be in focus. The only way to
rectify this is to use aperture priotity (Av). This is hardly a point and
shoot way of doing things. My wife uses P setting on her "point and shoot"
Canon S330. She changes the WB or flash at the most, but of course, she has
the lag. Personally, I think you can't have it both ways.

Marcel
ASAAR - 30 Sep 2005 04:33 GMT
>> Not sure this is place to post a question like this, please excuse if it
>> is not.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>> She is used to pocket 35mm cameras on which she could jsut fully
>> depress the shutter in one quick motion and take the pic.

 The OP is probably looking an easy to use, relatively inexpensive
camera.  The digital equivalent of his wife's pocket 35mm camera.

 From this request you suggest much more expensive, sophisticated
equipment:

> One solution would be the Canon 350D. However, be careful to
> only use lenses with fast-focusing built-in motors, such as the
> Canon USM lenses.

> The Nikon D50 (or D70) is probably good as well.

 You then add that this isn't sufficient, since the lenses you
recommend are admittedly expensive and the camera body you're
recommending will probably be replaced before long.  Given your pro
Canon / anti Nikon bias I'm surprised to see you recommend these two
Nikon bodies, so that's nice.  But you missed a good scoring
opportunity to equate an Olympus E-300 with a pocket 35mm. :)

>  when you buy a new body three years from now) there's a raging
> angels-on-the-heads-of-pins argument as to whether Nikon's insistence
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> paths to higher resolution sensors in the future, so your lens investment
> won't be wasted (but if you get the Canon, only buy one EF-S lens!).

Oh well, why am I not surprised to see you say that the Nikon
bodies with insanely inappropriate sensors. Canon is just as guilty
but doesn't get hung with the "insane" label.  Yes, Canon does have
some Full Frame sensors, but to qualify for a non-insane purchase,
the OP now would need to buy a Canon body costing several thousands
of dollars more than the already too-expensive bodies you've already
recommended.  Were you trying to help the OP make a purchasing
decision or scare him away from asking questions in newsgroups by
referring to terms (USM lenses, 1.5x sensors, EF-S lenses) that he's
probably unfamiliar with?  Praise the camera gods, at least you
didn't get into MTF, workflow and bokeh.
paul.busse@gmail.com - 29 Sep 2005 01:28 GMT
I had this same issue--only a digital SLR will solve the problem.  I
thus went from the Canon Pro90 IS (with slight shutter lag) to the
Digital Rebel to the Digital Rebel XT (350D).  I can't imagine that I
will ever need more capabilitiy than it affords!   (But I said that
about my Apple IIgs in 1982, and was wrong!)

Paul B.
http://www.scienceteacher.biz
Jan Nademlejnsky - 29 Sep 2005 01:37 GMT
You will require very expensive camera with easy manual focus or very cheap
one with the fixed focus. When you press the shutter button the camera tries
to focus and adjust time and exposure. If the conditions are right, with
enough light and distinctive and simple edges of the subject, this lag will
be short.

Fixed focus camera does not have any moving parts related to the optics.
There is practically no delay.

Try to avoid the camera without the optical viewfinder, which is becoming a
trend now. You could follow the moving object (children, animals) when
looking through the optical viewfinder. You cannot do this with a display.
It will freeze when the button is pressed, but picture taking will happen
later on. The object will be gone from the frame. This is case with my
"expensive" camera Diamage A1, which has a special focusing feature, which
follows the moving object. But because it has only an electronic viewfinder,
you cannot see the moving object. The bottom line is that it is impossible
to take an action picture. All the other cheaper cameras (5) have optical
viewfinder resulting much better action photos.

Jan

> Hi:
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> KM
David J Taylor - 29 Sep 2005 10:33 GMT
> Hi:
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> pocket 35mm cameras on which she could jsut fully depress the shutter
> in one quick motion and take the pic.

The cheaper answer is not necessarily a DSLR, but to educate the user
about the half shutter press!  The Nikon 8400 and Panasonic FZ5 I have are
amongst the faster focusing point-and-shoot cameras, but perhaps it would
be helpful to know what style of photography and what subjects interest
your wife before recommending further.

David
Charles Schuler - 29 Sep 2005 23:26 GMT
> The cheaper answer is not necessarily a DSLR, but to educate the user
> about the half shutter press!  The Nikon 8400 and Panasonic FZ5 I have are
> amongst the faster focusing point-and-shoot cameras, but perhaps it would
> be helpful to know what style of photography and what subjects interest
> your wife before recommending further.

I agree about the FZ5.  I bought one for my wife and she has been taking
great shots with it.  We just returned from a two-week trip (we took only
the FZ5) and almost all of the shots are very good.  The response time is
good.  It's a great P&S and the long zoom along with IS provides a camera
that covers a lot of bases.
jimn - 29 Sep 2005 11:23 GMT
>Hi:
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
>KM

Read the post folks.... KM is looking for a quick small point an
shoot... "She is used to a pocket 35....)  Yes the DSLR's are quick.  My D70
is a fraction of a second from OFF to picture.   Not what KM wants.
I am not sure I can give specific advice, but I suspect some of th
better p&s cameras are getting faster.  If you live near a decent camer
store, (even a Ritz or Wolf), go in, talk to the guys and try a few and se
if they fit your bill.   You are correct, don't trust any mail orde
salesmen... even at favorite mailorder B&H.    Many of the newer camera
are much faster than those of a year ago.   Evaluate Pixels and option
against performance.  If you are making 5x7 or less or email sharing, 4
Pixels is plenty.  But evaluate carefully, the lower Megapixel camer
may be a "lesser" model and actually be slower than the a current 5
Pixel.     Google for   "point and shoot digital camera shutter lag" and yo
will come up with all kinds of reviews etc.
Good luck

--
Ji
Dan Wojciechowski - 30 Sep 2005 20:47 GMT
...
> Here's the issue: my wife is looking for a home use digital camera that does
> not have what she calls the "annoying delay" between the time she depresses
> the shutter to the time the image is recorded.
...

The problem is that the when the digital camera shutter release is pressed,
the camera needs to determine focus, metering, and white ballance before
taking the picture.  For many P&S digitals, this takes time.

What to do:
1. Learn to do the "half press" pre-focus and then snap the shot.
2. Use manual focus.  If you set this to whatever focus the pocket
35mm uses, the results will be comparable.
3. Spend a little more for one of the new generation of digital point and
shoots.  Some of them are becoming down right speedy.  Check the
reviews at www.dpreview.com or one of the competitors.
4. Engage the "full time auto-focus" mode.  It will eat more batteries,
but will shorten the focus time tremendously.

> What she is referring to is her unfamilarity with depressing the shutter
> partially to activate the camera sensors etc..She is used to pocket 35mm
> cameras on which she could jsut fully depress the shutter in one quick
> motion and take the pic.

Those things are fixed focus; that's why they are quicker.
...

Signature

Dan (Woj...)     [dmaster](no space)[at](no space)[lucent](no space)[dot](no
space)[com]
===============================
"summer has come and passed /the innocent can never last
wake me up when september ends
ring out the bells again / like we did when spring began
wake me up when september ends"

 
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