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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / Digital Photo / June 2005

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Canon Powershot Pro 1 Vs. Olympus C-8080 Wide Zoom

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°..Jan Plexy..° - 29 Jun 2005 20:51 GMT
Which of theese two cameras is better choice?

Thanx
Alfred Molon - 29 Jun 2005 22:33 GMT
> Which of theese two cameras is better choice?

It depends...

The reviews say that the 8080 has the better lens. The Pro 1 is more
compact and has more zoom range. Personally I went for the camera with
the better lens.
Signature


Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus 4040, 5050, 5060, 7070, 8080, E300 forum at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
Olympus E300 resource - http://myolympus.org/E300/

Rick - 30 Jun 2005 00:49 GMT
Bottom line:  8MP on a 2/3" sensor results in horrid purple
fringing and excessive noise, regardless of the manufacturer
or lens.  If you really need that kind of resolution go for a
6MP (or higher) dSLR.

In article <d9uu4j$1ve$1@sunce.iskon.hr>, °..Jan Plexy..° says...
> Which of theese two cameras is better choice?

It depends...

The reviews say that the 8080 has the better lens. The Pro 1 is more
compact and has more zoom range. Personally I went for the camera with
the better lens.
Signature


Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus 4040, 5050, 5060, 7070, 8080, E300 forum at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
Olympus E300 resource - http://myolympus.org/E300/

Alfred Molon - 30 Jun 2005 02:27 GMT
> Bottom line:  8MP on a 2/3" sensor results in horrid purple
> fringing and excessive noise, regardless of the manufacturer
> or lens.  If you really need that kind of resolution go for a
> 6MP (or higher) dSLR.

That's not my experience with the 8080. Purple fringing is quite low and
noise low enough, if you shoot al lowest ISO (which is the ISO at which
a camera with a 2/3" should be operated).
Signature


Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus 4040, 5050, 5060, 7070, 8080, E300 forum at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
Olympus E300 resource - http://myolympus.org/E300/

chrlz@go.com - 30 Jun 2005 07:24 GMT
Rick said:
>Bottom line:  8MP on a 2/3" sensor results in horrid purple fringing and
>excessive noise, regardless of the manufacturer or lens.  If you really
>need that kind of resolution go for a 6MP (or higher) dSLR.

'Bottom line'?  Anyone who uses 'bottom line' as their introduction,
and then offers generalisations such as those above, should maybe get
out more - or at least offer some explanation and justification.

The Oly 8080 has very little problem with any purple fringing - it has
*never* been obvious in any of my prints, and I often push it to 13"
x19" if the image justifies it.  Just look for yourselves at the image
samples at dpreview and other places, and also check for comparisons
that show the 8080's ZOOM against DSLR's *prime* lenses, eg here:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos20d/page27.asp

Can you point to the purple fringing?  Perhaps Rick has only seen the
Sony and Nikon 8Mp efforts..

What little fringing there *is*, is demonstrated here:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympusc8080wz/page16.asp

and in their summary of the lens/sensor performance it doesn't even
rate a mention, amongst these comments "Great lens...mature image
processing...good color balance...all amounts to a very good
performance from the C-8080. In this case the lens really has made the
camera...Thanks to smart noise reduction the C-8080 also keeps noise at
higher sensitivities in check...something not all eight megapixel
digital cameras can achieve... had no major complaints about the
C-8080's image quality and found no specific issues which needed
further analysis...."

Also look here - compared to Canon DSLRs fitted with 50/1.4 prime
lens....

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos20d/page26.asp

Here, dpreview also says "It's not as silky smooth as the EOS 20D
(despite being set to ISO 50) but it's certainly not noisy."  For me,
who shoots almost everything at ISO50 and has little use for higher
ISO's, noise is not an issue, but I don't claim to be everyone.  IF
your style involves low-light shooting, then yes, the noise at ISOs
over 100 may be an issue.  Purple fringing is definitely NOT *horrid*
with the 8080 - in fact the Nikon and Canon DSLR kit lenses are far,
far worse in this regard.

The 8080 isn't the greatest camera ever built, but it has some very
good points.  I don't particularly like it's menu operation, and there
are other annoyances - like poor battery-life indication and the silly
way it changes the display from EVF to LCD when you least want it..

But purple fringing?  Nope.
Noise problems?  Yes, *could* be an issue if you shoot low-light and
print large.  But is the Canon better in either area?  No, it has worse
(yes Rick, *worse!*) purple fringing despite only being a 5Mp, and the
noise at ISO400 looks very similar to me.  And of course you are
comparing a 5Mp with an 8Mp, so the Oly will outresolve it by a
comfortable margin and give more 'headroom' for effective noise
reduction..  But if you never print beyond 11x8, that might be a moot
point.

That's *my* bottom line.
Rick - 30 Jun 2005 07:49 GMT
> Rick said:
> >Bottom line:  8MP on a 2/3" sensor results in horrid purple fringing and
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos20d/page27.asp

From your own reference:

Purple Fringing (Chromatic Aberrations)

"As noted in our other eight megapixel reviews almost all cameras
which use this 2/3" type eight megapixel CCD exhibit some amount
of purple fringing. And while it was possible to force visible fringing
from the C-8080 on our standard test chart we struggled to find an
everyday shot which demonstrated strong fringing, so overall the
C-8080 seems to have purple fringing at least under control."

Well, if those test shots qualify as "under control", "under control"
simply means the C-8080 is not quite as horrid as other 8MP 2/3"
sensor cameras.  The fact is, those images SUCK compared to a
6MP dSLR, or even a 5MP 2/3" sensor camera such as the Sony
F717.

Again, 8MP is simply too many pixels for that size sensor.  These
cameras are designed from the ground up for people who simply
want to brag about how many MP their cameras have, and who
don't really give a damn about image quality.
chrlz@go.com - 30 Jun 2005 11:44 GMT
Rick said...
>From your own reference..

..and from yours..

".. we struggled to find an everyday shot which demonstrated strong
fringing.."

Shall we compare that to *your* comment - 'horrid purple fringing'.
You think that reference backs up your words?  Please show me a
dictionary reference of horrid that fits in with that description.  Or
are you more into quick headlines and the 'DSLRs rule, everything else
is sh.t' attitude that gives away some folk's photographic approach,
bias, and knowledge level..?

"The fact is, those images SUCK compared to a 6MP dSLR."
They suck.. in capitals even, do they?  That's so cool, ya know, I jus
luv dude-speak.  SUCK is so much more descriptive than links, examples,
and images.  It's so much easier than actually pointing out the flaws
or looking at comparisons and making judgements.  As you seem to have a
problem with anything of that complexity, perhaps others can help you
actually refer to the links I posted, and then point out the SUCKiness
- in English.  I'm afraid that term just doesn't seem to appear in my
photographic dictionary.  Me, I'll stick to the sort of language used
by camera reviewers.  You don't like Phil Askey and dpreview.. ok, how
about imaging resource..?

"Olympus really seems to have gotten most things right in the C-8080
Wide Zoom. It's a powerful photographic tool with a fluid and effective
user interface and excellent image quality all around."

I repeat - 'excellent image quality all around...'..  Or you - 'it
SUCKs'.  Hmm - who to believe?  Could someone be exaggerating?

By the way, I note you didn't comment about kit lenses on the DSLR's,
and that they might actually be far worse (why, even 'horrid'),
compared to the Olympus?  Nor did you comment about the performance
comparison to a dslr with 50mm prime.  You are very fixated on the
purple fringe and noise issues..  I would prefer a balanced approach
that measured all of the competing quality and convenience
considerations, and also took into account that the OP did not ask
about DSLR's.  Did you notice that?  Gee, perhaps he had a reason...

But.. that's just me.  Maybe I need to get a DSLR, so I can spit on all
those stupid prosumer owners, and tell them they don't give a damn
about image quality...   (O;  Trouble with DSLR's is this - I don't
think any of them are *good enough* yet.  I want at least 8Mp (prefer
12), along with in-camera IS, *and* some sort of automatic sensor
cleaning.  Then I'll jump.  At the moment I can only get 2 out of 3.

>Again, 8MP is simply too many pixels for that size sensor.
I agree, it is pushing it *just* a little further than the optimum,
but...

>These cameras are designed from the ground up for people
>who simply want to brag about how many MP their cameras have
.. now that's just a bit silly and insulting, don't you think?  You
truly believe that I, along with the many other 8mp prosumer owners
(fools!!!), just go around bragging about Mp size?  Or could it be just
slightly possible that I actually might have done my research to find a
camera that suited what I wanted to achieve, and what I wanted to
carry..? (And in this case, it was for just *one aspect* of my work! -
Do you think this is my *only* camera?)

Do you think your needs/wants are the *only* ones?  Are you the centre
of the known universe?

>..and who don't really give a damn about image quality.

OK, them's fighting words - I call your bluff.  You say I don't give a
damn about image quality.  So walk the walk - *post some examples of
**your** image quality*.  Here's a little gallery of my stuff, that was
taken not with the Oly, but another of your hated 8Mp cameras (and it's
even the one with the worst purple fringing in it's class..)  On the
day it arrived at my work, I took the Sony F828 out for a quick test
drive to see how it would handle some late afternoon light at the local
marina, just using the default settings.  It proved to be
over-contrasty (easily adjusted, but some of these images show blown
highlights because of that setting), but overall I was happy with these
as my first play with an 8Mp...

http://community.webshots.com/album/131033374bWiBJm
(sorry about popups, webshots *sucks* (grin), I'll be moving the
gallery shortly)

Yes, that gallery is only small images, BUT feel free to pick one that
you reckon would show bad purple fringing or noise, and then I'll post
the full size original.  But that will be AFTER you have proven you
will do the same by posting some of *your* work.  I'm also happy to
post Olympus samples if anyone is genuinely interested.  And yes, I use
*both* of these cameras extensively, along with Pentax and Minolta film
slrs, and Bronica medium format..  I also regularly print my work to
13" x 19" and larger, both in-house and at a lab nearby.  But Rick says
I don't give a damn about image quality. He would know... I guess...

PS - I even used to own the DSC-F717.  The Olympus runs rings around it
for sheer image quality and enlargability, although I admit I miss the
Sony's ease of use and the nifty laser focussing.  Noise level at
200ISO on the Oly is pretty well identical to that at 400 on the Sony,
but both cameras give effectively noiseless prints at ISO 100 or less.
And like I said, some of us weird folk actually aren't interested in
shooting at high ISOs.  So it's a non-issue.  Unless, of course, you
are digitally challenged and don't know how to print properly...

But Rick will refuse to believe all that, and thinks I just ignore the
noise and fringing so I can brag about my megapixels. OK.  whatever...

But just to make you feel vindicated - here you go..  "Nyer nyer, I've
got 8Mp and my prosumer out-resolves your DSLR - so THERE!"
stratus46@yahoo.com - 30 Jun 2005 05:44 GMT
> Which of theese two cameras is better choice?
>
> Thanx

OK, I have a Pro 1 so there is my bias.

I have spent (too) many hours looking at the 'red brick building' on
Steve's Digicams. Look at the mortar between the vertically mounted
bricks. The spiral wrapped cable at the top of the frame is worth
noting. Check the red letters on the 'no parking' sign. Check the
street sign and the number on the dumpster. Now compared to a DSLR,
they have room to improve but they're both some of the better P&S.

When I got this camera and took a picture of my little girl, my wife
said 'now THAT looks good' and then kind of took it over.

On the negative side, the macro function doesn't work too well. Manual
focus is a little cumbersome. I read that the battery life is a problem
but it hasn't been a problem for me. It doesn't do too well with a lens
filter (casts shadows with the flash).

BUT, I would buy it again.
Glenn Gundlach
Doug Leal - 30 Jun 2005 13:16 GMT
I'm with Mr. Stratus on this one..

The FL lens on the Pro 1 is terrific and I have *never* found any fringing
in my images.
I have taken some incredible macro shots, battery life goes on forever
(well.. a hell of a long time anyway) - It's a very nice compact camera that
has everything.

Doug

°..Jan Plexy..° wrote:
> Which of theese two cameras is better choice?
>
> Thanx

OK, I have a Pro 1 so there is my bias.

I have spent (too) many hours looking at the 'red brick building' on
Steve's Digicams. Look at the mortar between the vertically mounted
bricks. The spiral wrapped cable at the top of the frame is worth
noting. Check the red letters on the 'no parking' sign. Check the
street sign and the number on the dumpster. Now compared to a DSLR,
they have room to improve but they're both some of the better P&S.

When I got this camera and took a picture of my little girl, my wife
said 'now THAT looks good' and then kind of took it over.

On the negative side, the macro function doesn't work too well. Manual
focus is a little cumbersome. I read that the battery life is a problem
but it hasn't been a problem for me. It doesn't do too well with a lens
filter (casts shadows with the flash).

BUT, I would buy it again.
Glenn Gundlach
Matti Vuori - 30 Jun 2005 14:00 GMT
> I have taken some incredible macro shots, battery life goes on forever
> (well.. a hell of a long time anyway) - It's a very nice compact
> camera that has everything.

Of course it is, most of them are. But the question is, is it better than
the Olympus, and whether you know any answers to that comparison.

Signature

Matti Vuori, <http://sivut.koti.soon.fi/mvuori/index-e.htm>

David J Taylor - 30 Jun 2005 09:03 GMT
> Which of theese two cameras is better choice?
>
> Thanx

For what application - what sort of photos do you want to take?

I looked at both of these cameras but bought a Nikon 8400 because of its
very wide angle zoom lens (24mm focal length without adapters, 18mm with).
Excellent image quality.

For long zoom work, I think that image stabilisation offers significant
advantages, so if you must have an 8MP camera then the Nikon 8800 should
be on your list (although I prefered the lighter and cheaper 5MP Panasonic
FZ5).

Cheers,
David
 
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