Photo Forum / Digital Photography / Digital Photo / June 2005
Canon Powershot Pro 1 Vs. Olympus C-8080 Wide Zoom
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°..Jan Plexy..° - 29 Jun 2005 20:51 GMT Which of theese two cameras is better choice?
Thanx
Alfred Molon - 29 Jun 2005 22:33 GMT > Which of theese two cameras is better choice? It depends...
The reviews say that the 8080 has the better lens. The Pro 1 is more compact and has more zoom range. Personally I went for the camera with the better lens.
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Alfred Molon ------------------------------ Olympus 4040, 5050, 5060, 7070, 8080, E300 forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/ Olympus E300 resource - http://myolympus.org/E300/
Rick - 30 Jun 2005 00:49 GMT Bottom line: 8MP on a 2/3" sensor results in horrid purple fringing and excessive noise, regardless of the manufacturer or lens. If you really need that kind of resolution go for a 6MP (or higher) dSLR.
In article <d9uu4j$1ve$1@sunce.iskon.hr>, °..Jan Plexy..° says...
> Which of theese two cameras is better choice? It depends...
The reviews say that the 8080 has the better lens. The Pro 1 is more compact and has more zoom range. Personally I went for the camera with the better lens.
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Alfred Molon ------------------------------ Olympus 4040, 5050, 5060, 7070, 8080, E300 forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/ Olympus E300 resource - http://myolympus.org/E300/
Alfred Molon - 30 Jun 2005 02:27 GMT > Bottom line: 8MP on a 2/3" sensor results in horrid purple > fringing and excessive noise, regardless of the manufacturer > or lens. If you really need that kind of resolution go for a > 6MP (or higher) dSLR. That's not my experience with the 8080. Purple fringing is quite low and noise low enough, if you shoot al lowest ISO (which is the ISO at which a camera with a 2/3" should be operated).
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Alfred Molon ------------------------------ Olympus 4040, 5050, 5060, 7070, 8080, E300 forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/ Olympus E300 resource - http://myolympus.org/E300/
chrlz@go.com - 30 Jun 2005 07:24 GMT Rick said:
>Bottom line: 8MP on a 2/3" sensor results in horrid purple fringing and >excessive noise, regardless of the manufacturer or lens. If you really >need that kind of resolution go for a 6MP (or higher) dSLR. 'Bottom line'? Anyone who uses 'bottom line' as their introduction, and then offers generalisations such as those above, should maybe get out more - or at least offer some explanation and justification.
The Oly 8080 has very little problem with any purple fringing - it has *never* been obvious in any of my prints, and I often push it to 13" x19" if the image justifies it. Just look for yourselves at the image samples at dpreview and other places, and also check for comparisons that show the 8080's ZOOM against DSLR's *prime* lenses, eg here:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos20d/page27.asp
Can you point to the purple fringing? Perhaps Rick has only seen the Sony and Nikon 8Mp efforts..
What little fringing there *is*, is demonstrated here:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympusc8080wz/page16.asp
and in their summary of the lens/sensor performance it doesn't even rate a mention, amongst these comments "Great lens...mature image processing...good color balance...all amounts to a very good performance from the C-8080. In this case the lens really has made the camera...Thanks to smart noise reduction the C-8080 also keeps noise at higher sensitivities in check...something not all eight megapixel digital cameras can achieve... had no major complaints about the C-8080's image quality and found no specific issues which needed further analysis...."
Also look here - compared to Canon DSLRs fitted with 50/1.4 prime lens....
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos20d/page26.asp
Here, dpreview also says "It's not as silky smooth as the EOS 20D (despite being set to ISO 50) but it's certainly not noisy." For me, who shoots almost everything at ISO50 and has little use for higher ISO's, noise is not an issue, but I don't claim to be everyone. IF your style involves low-light shooting, then yes, the noise at ISOs over 100 may be an issue. Purple fringing is definitely NOT *horrid* with the 8080 - in fact the Nikon and Canon DSLR kit lenses are far, far worse in this regard.
The 8080 isn't the greatest camera ever built, but it has some very good points. I don't particularly like it's menu operation, and there are other annoyances - like poor battery-life indication and the silly way it changes the display from EVF to LCD when you least want it..
But purple fringing? Nope. Noise problems? Yes, *could* be an issue if you shoot low-light and print large. But is the Canon better in either area? No, it has worse (yes Rick, *worse!*) purple fringing despite only being a 5Mp, and the noise at ISO400 looks very similar to me. And of course you are comparing a 5Mp with an 8Mp, so the Oly will outresolve it by a comfortable margin and give more 'headroom' for effective noise reduction.. But if you never print beyond 11x8, that might be a moot point.
That's *my* bottom line.
Rick - 30 Jun 2005 07:49 GMT > Rick said: > >Bottom line: 8MP on a 2/3" sensor results in horrid purple fringing and [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos20d/page27.asp From your own reference:
Purple Fringing (Chromatic Aberrations)
"As noted in our other eight megapixel reviews almost all cameras which use this 2/3" type eight megapixel CCD exhibit some amount of purple fringing. And while it was possible to force visible fringing from the C-8080 on our standard test chart we struggled to find an everyday shot which demonstrated strong fringing, so overall the C-8080 seems to have purple fringing at least under control."
Well, if those test shots qualify as "under control", "under control" simply means the C-8080 is not quite as horrid as other 8MP 2/3" sensor cameras. The fact is, those images SUCK compared to a 6MP dSLR, or even a 5MP 2/3" sensor camera such as the Sony F717.
Again, 8MP is simply too many pixels for that size sensor. These cameras are designed from the ground up for people who simply want to brag about how many MP their cameras have, and who don't really give a damn about image quality.
chrlz@go.com - 30 Jun 2005 11:44 GMT Rick said...
>From your own reference.. ..and from yours..
".. we struggled to find an everyday shot which demonstrated strong fringing.."
Shall we compare that to *your* comment - 'horrid purple fringing'. You think that reference backs up your words? Please show me a dictionary reference of horrid that fits in with that description. Or are you more into quick headlines and the 'DSLRs rule, everything else is sh.t' attitude that gives away some folk's photographic approach, bias, and knowledge level..?
"The fact is, those images SUCK compared to a 6MP dSLR." They suck.. in capitals even, do they? That's so cool, ya know, I jus luv dude-speak. SUCK is so much more descriptive than links, examples, and images. It's so much easier than actually pointing out the flaws or looking at comparisons and making judgements. As you seem to have a problem with anything of that complexity, perhaps others can help you actually refer to the links I posted, and then point out the SUCKiness - in English. I'm afraid that term just doesn't seem to appear in my photographic dictionary. Me, I'll stick to the sort of language used by camera reviewers. You don't like Phil Askey and dpreview.. ok, how about imaging resource..?
"Olympus really seems to have gotten most things right in the C-8080 Wide Zoom. It's a powerful photographic tool with a fluid and effective user interface and excellent image quality all around."
I repeat - 'excellent image quality all around...'.. Or you - 'it SUCKs'. Hmm - who to believe? Could someone be exaggerating?
By the way, I note you didn't comment about kit lenses on the DSLR's, and that they might actually be far worse (why, even 'horrid'), compared to the Olympus? Nor did you comment about the performance comparison to a dslr with 50mm prime. You are very fixated on the purple fringe and noise issues.. I would prefer a balanced approach that measured all of the competing quality and convenience considerations, and also took into account that the OP did not ask about DSLR's. Did you notice that? Gee, perhaps he had a reason...
But.. that's just me. Maybe I need to get a DSLR, so I can spit on all those stupid prosumer owners, and tell them they don't give a damn about image quality... (O; Trouble with DSLR's is this - I don't think any of them are *good enough* yet. I want at least 8Mp (prefer 12), along with in-camera IS, *and* some sort of automatic sensor cleaning. Then I'll jump. At the moment I can only get 2 out of 3.
>Again, 8MP is simply too many pixels for that size sensor. I agree, it is pushing it *just* a little further than the optimum, but...
>These cameras are designed from the ground up for people >who simply want to brag about how many MP their cameras have .. now that's just a bit silly and insulting, don't you think? You truly believe that I, along with the many other 8mp prosumer owners (fools!!!), just go around bragging about Mp size? Or could it be just slightly possible that I actually might have done my research to find a camera that suited what I wanted to achieve, and what I wanted to carry..? (And in this case, it was for just *one aspect* of my work! - Do you think this is my *only* camera?)
Do you think your needs/wants are the *only* ones? Are you the centre of the known universe?
>..and who don't really give a damn about image quality. OK, them's fighting words - I call your bluff. You say I don't give a damn about image quality. So walk the walk - *post some examples of **your** image quality*. Here's a little gallery of my stuff, that was taken not with the Oly, but another of your hated 8Mp cameras (and it's even the one with the worst purple fringing in it's class..) On the day it arrived at my work, I took the Sony F828 out for a quick test drive to see how it would handle some late afternoon light at the local marina, just using the default settings. It proved to be over-contrasty (easily adjusted, but some of these images show blown highlights because of that setting), but overall I was happy with these as my first play with an 8Mp...
http://community.webshots.com/album/131033374bWiBJm (sorry about popups, webshots *sucks* (grin), I'll be moving the gallery shortly)
Yes, that gallery is only small images, BUT feel free to pick one that you reckon would show bad purple fringing or noise, and then I'll post the full size original. But that will be AFTER you have proven you will do the same by posting some of *your* work. I'm also happy to post Olympus samples if anyone is genuinely interested. And yes, I use *both* of these cameras extensively, along with Pentax and Minolta film slrs, and Bronica medium format.. I also regularly print my work to 13" x 19" and larger, both in-house and at a lab nearby. But Rick says I don't give a damn about image quality. He would know... I guess...
PS - I even used to own the DSC-F717. The Olympus runs rings around it for sheer image quality and enlargability, although I admit I miss the Sony's ease of use and the nifty laser focussing. Noise level at 200ISO on the Oly is pretty well identical to that at 400 on the Sony, but both cameras give effectively noiseless prints at ISO 100 or less. And like I said, some of us weird folk actually aren't interested in shooting at high ISOs. So it's a non-issue. Unless, of course, you are digitally challenged and don't know how to print properly...
But Rick will refuse to believe all that, and thinks I just ignore the noise and fringing so I can brag about my megapixels. OK. whatever...
But just to make you feel vindicated - here you go.. "Nyer nyer, I've got 8Mp and my prosumer out-resolves your DSLR - so THERE!"
stratus46@yahoo.com - 30 Jun 2005 05:44 GMT > Which of theese two cameras is better choice? > > Thanx OK, I have a Pro 1 so there is my bias.
I have spent (too) many hours looking at the 'red brick building' on Steve's Digicams. Look at the mortar between the vertically mounted bricks. The spiral wrapped cable at the top of the frame is worth noting. Check the red letters on the 'no parking' sign. Check the street sign and the number on the dumpster. Now compared to a DSLR, they have room to improve but they're both some of the better P&S.
When I got this camera and took a picture of my little girl, my wife said 'now THAT looks good' and then kind of took it over.
On the negative side, the macro function doesn't work too well. Manual focus is a little cumbersome. I read that the battery life is a problem but it hasn't been a problem for me. It doesn't do too well with a lens filter (casts shadows with the flash).
BUT, I would buy it again. Glenn Gundlach
Doug Leal - 30 Jun 2005 13:16 GMT I'm with Mr. Stratus on this one..
The FL lens on the Pro 1 is terrific and I have *never* found any fringing in my images. I have taken some incredible macro shots, battery life goes on forever (well.. a hell of a long time anyway) - It's a very nice compact camera that has everything.
Doug
°..Jan Plexy..° wrote:
> Which of theese two cameras is better choice? > > Thanx OK, I have a Pro 1 so there is my bias.
I have spent (too) many hours looking at the 'red brick building' on Steve's Digicams. Look at the mortar between the vertically mounted bricks. The spiral wrapped cable at the top of the frame is worth noting. Check the red letters on the 'no parking' sign. Check the street sign and the number on the dumpster. Now compared to a DSLR, they have room to improve but they're both some of the better P&S.
When I got this camera and took a picture of my little girl, my wife said 'now THAT looks good' and then kind of took it over.
On the negative side, the macro function doesn't work too well. Manual focus is a little cumbersome. I read that the battery life is a problem but it hasn't been a problem for me. It doesn't do too well with a lens filter (casts shadows with the flash).
BUT, I would buy it again. Glenn Gundlach
Matti Vuori - 30 Jun 2005 14:00 GMT > I have taken some incredible macro shots, battery life goes on forever > (well.. a hell of a long time anyway) - It's a very nice compact > camera that has everything. Of course it is, most of them are. But the question is, is it better than the Olympus, and whether you know any answers to that comparison.
 Signature Matti Vuori, <http://sivut.koti.soon.fi/mvuori/index-e.htm>
David J Taylor - 30 Jun 2005 09:03 GMT > Which of theese two cameras is better choice? > > Thanx For what application - what sort of photos do you want to take?
I looked at both of these cameras but bought a Nikon 8400 because of its very wide angle zoom lens (24mm focal length without adapters, 18mm with). Excellent image quality.
For long zoom work, I think that image stabilisation offers significant advantages, so if you must have an 8MP camera then the Nikon 8800 should be on your list (although I prefered the lighter and cheaper 5MP Panasonic FZ5).
Cheers, David
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