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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / Digital Photo / December 2004Canon 9900 vs Epson 2200
I am still trying to decide which large format printer to buy. The Epson 2200 will take paper other than Epson, and I like that feature. I have heard conflicting stories about the Canon 9900 being able to take other than Canon paper. Has anyone on the forum used paper other than Canon on their 9900? According to reviews, the Canon has the Epson beat heartily on speed, which is good, but I haven't seen prints so can't judge which has the best color. Also, opening up older discussions, what are the pros and cons of each. I am not totally hung up on photos that last 50 years, since I will not last that long. I don't think that I want to use second party inks though, since they have a tendency to clog. (Past experience) I just want the best printer for the money that prints true color photos and the price of paper and ink won't send me to the poor house. Suggestions? Don Dunlap Don Dunlap I would go with the Canon i9900. I just bought the Canon PIXMA iP8500, which is their newer series. It's an 8.5x11 format, but uses the print engine, head, and ink system, from the i9900. It is super fast, and does a phenomenal job! The print head on the iP8500 is user replaceable. Not sure about the i9900...seems it should be. Bill Crocker >I am still trying to decide which large format printer to buy. The Epson >2200 will take paper other than Epson, and I like that feature. I have [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Don Dunlap I believe that the print head is user replaceable on the 9900 also. Based on the comments from almost everyone who has replied, it seems as if the Canon is the one that I should get. I plan on buying right after the first of the year, so I have plenty of time to change my mind about 10 times between now and then. :) Thanks Don Dunlap >I would go with the Canon i9900. I just bought the Canon PIXMA iP8500, >which is their newer series. It's an 8.5x11 format, but uses the print [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >> >> Don Dunlap >I am still trying to decide which large format printer to buy. The Epson >2200 will take paper other than Epson, and I like that feature. I have [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Don Dunlap I have the Epson and love it. I use it for my studio and need the archival life and waterproof ink. If you don'tneed this though and can save money by going Canon I would do that. I have seen prints from both and they are both wonderful printers. I currently use InkPress papers (pro chrome luster) and get awesome results out of their paper. D www.delawarestudio.com www.pbase.com/fitpix >From: "Don Dunlap" dondunlapremve@direcway.com >I am still trying to decide which large format printer to buy. This link discusses them well ... http://www.inkjetart.com/news/archive/IJN_04-18-04.html ... scroll down to "Q: What are my choices for 13" wide photo inkjet printers, and which is best?" Basically the Epson 2200 is better for long print life and for printing on a variety of papers, especially fine art watercolor papers like Velvet-Fine Art. The Canon is faster, costs less and does better on glossy paper. >I have heard conflicting stories about the Canon 9900 being able to take >other than Canon paper. Has anyone on the forum used paper other than >Canon on their 9900? You can use other papers with good print quality BUT there's a big question with print life ... Wilhelm Research rates the one good Canon paper at around 30 years but the other papers are rated much less ... >I haven't seen prints so can't judge which has the best color. You can order a 2200 test print from here ... http://www.inkjetart.com/custom/ ... you can download the test pattern and see if someone with a Canon will print it for you ... When I was deciding between an Epson 2000p and 1280 I got test prints from both and bought the 1280, even though I really wanted the 2000p print life (but I couldn't live with the metamerism) ... when I considered the 2200 I bought test prints and compared to the 1280 test prints and bought the 2200 ... there is no substitute for actually comparing test prints side-by-side so it's a good idea to spend $20 to get a couple, I feel. >I am not totally hung up on photos that last 50 years Sounds like the Canon may be better choice for you then ... >I just want the best printer for the money that prints true color photos >and the price of paper and ink won't send me to the poor house. > >Suggestions? I have the 2200 (now rarely used since I got the 17" wide 4000) and am a big Epson fan, but given what you wrote I'd say the 9900 fits your needs fine. The two main reasons to get the 2200 are the long print life (mainly if you're selling prints) and the excellent fine art papers, I feel. These don't seem that crucial to you though. Bill Does the Epson have any banding problems, or the Canons? > >From: "Don Dunlap" dondunlapremve@direcway.com > [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > Bill >From: "Robert" RB@comcast.net >Does the Epson have any banding problems, or the Canons? The Epsons I've used definitely do not have a banding problem (I have a 1280, 2200 and 4000 in my office right now). I doubt that the i9900 Canon does either, though I haven't used one. The Epsons have a utility for aligning the print head in case you see true banding, though I've never had to use it. If you see a repetitive banding stripe it would most likely mean one of the print head nozzles is clogged or has an air bubble. On the 1280 I used to always run a 'nozzle check' test before printing a photo to check for this (easy to fix with a cleaning cycle). Later printer models seem to have largely fixed this though, I only run a nozzle check on the 2200 if I haven't used it in several weeks and it's almost always clear even then. The head clogging on the Epsons seems to have peaked with the 780/870 and 1270/1280 models (I think the 780 was the worst), later models seem much less likely to have problems, I've found. > >From: "Don Dunlap" dondunlapremve@direcway.com > [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > > Bill It sounds as if the concensus is that the Canon is the one I should be considering. Thanks for the comments, Don Dunlap A Canon printer can print on any paper. However if you use color management you need to have a profile for the paper you are printing on. Epson makes many different paper surfaces and includes profiles for Epson papers in their printer driver software. Canon makes very few paper surfaces, 4 really, and includes profiles for those papers with their printer driver software. How much having a manufacturers canned paper profile matters to your results depends on your understanding of color management and willingness/ability to create your own profiles or work-arounds. Also, in my experience with other "9" series Canon printers the Canon methods for implementing color management are neither as straight forward or nearly as accurate as the Epson methods. The Canon printers are first rate but the Canon software is very second rate. None of us is creating a Mona Lisa and concerns about longevity really apply to only a segment of the professional market. If you are beginning to learn high end color managed printing with Photoshop get an Epson and save yourself alot of aggravation. >A Canon printer can print on any paper. > However if you use color management you need to have a profile for the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > to learn high end color managed printing with Photoshop get an Epson and > save yourself alot of aggravation. My last two printers have been Epson and I was pleased with both except for the print heads clogging on my Photo 700. I have the 785EPX now and it prints great. The Canon seems to be leading in my decision making at present, but as I told another poster, I won't be buying till just after the first of the year, so I have plenty of time to change my mind several times. Thanks Don Dunlap >>A Canon printer can print on any paper. >>However if you use color management you need to have a profile for the [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > present, but as I told another poster, I won't be buying till just after the > first of the year, so I have plenty of time to change my mind several times. I had the exact same problem with my Epson Photo 700. I'm very happy with my i9950.  SignatureBen Thomas - Software Engineer - Melbourne, Australia My Digital World: Kodak DX6490, Canon i9950, Pioneer A05; Hitachi 37PD, DGTEC 2000A, Denon 2800, H/K AVR4500, Whatmough Encore; Sony Ericsson K700i, Palm Tungsten T. Disclaimer: Opinions, conclusions, and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of my employer shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. > I am still trying to decide which large format printer to buy. The > Epson 2200 will take paper other than Epson, and I like that feature. canon just announced there new long life ink, a new large format Pixma using that ink should follow not too far behind. Walter > I am still trying to decide which large format printer to buy. The Epson > 2200 will take paper other than Epson, and I like that feature. I have > heard conflicting stories about the Canon 9900 being able to take other than > Canon paper. Has anyone on the forum used paper other than Canon on their > 9900? I have had little success with non-Canon paper in my Canon i9950 which is the Aussie version of the i9900 which has an adapter to allow you to print directly onto printable CDs and DVDs. > According to reviews, the Canon has the Epson beat heartily on speed, which > is good, but I haven't seen prints so can't judge which has the best color. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > printer for the money that prints true color photos and the price of paper > and ink won't send me to the poor house. I've found I can save 50% on ink and paper costs by buying (still genuine) from eBay. SignatureBen Thomas - Software Engineer - Melbourne, Australia My Digital World: Kodak DX6490, Canon i9950, Pioneer A05; Hitachi 37PD, DGTEC 2000A, Denon 2800, H/K AVR4500, Whatmough Encore; Sony Ericsson K700i, Palm Tungsten T. Disclaimer: Opinions, conclusions, and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of my employer shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. >> I am still trying to decide which large format printer to buy. The Epson >> 2200 will take paper other than Epson, and I like that feature. I have [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > I've found I can save 50% on ink and paper costs by buying (still genuine) > from eBay. That's strange, about the savings on E-bay I mean. I check on E-bay here in the US for ink and it is higher than I can get it for at several web sites, especially when you take the shipping cost into consideration. Don Dunlap > That's strange, about the savings on E-bay I mean. I check on E-bay here in > the US for ink and it is higher than I can get it for at several web sites, > especially when you take the shipping cost into consideration. > > Don Dunlap I've found the BCI6 ink for about AU$11 per cartridge. The best I've found elsewhere is AU$19 per cartridge. What prices have you seen and what websites were they from? SignatureBen Thomas - Software Engineer - Melbourne, Australia My Digital World: Kodak DX6490, Canon i9950, Pioneer A05; Hitachi 37PD, DGTEC 2000A, Denon 2800, H/K AVR4500, Whatmough Encore; Sony Ericsson K700i, Palm Tungsten T. Disclaimer: Opinions, conclusions, and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of my employer shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. >> That's strange, about the savings on E-bay I mean. I check on E-bay here >> in the US for ink and it is higher than I can get it for at several web [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > What prices have you seen and what websites were they from? SNIP I'm not sure what BC16 is. I didn't find it on the site I buy from, which is: http://www.atlex.com/epson-paper-ink-cartridges-index.htm Look at this site and let me know if it is cheaper. Don Dunlap > I'm not sure what BC16 is. I didn't find it on the site I buy from, which > is: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Don Dunlap bci 6 is the designation for cartridges in the Canon "Think Tank" line. They have a prism in the bottom to assist in checking ink level. They are similar in appearance to the bci 3 type tanks. SignatureLarry Lynch Mystic, Ct. >> I'm not sure what BC16 is. I didn't find it on the site I buy from, >> which [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > They are similar in appearance to the bci 3 type tanks. This is a link to the home page of that site. I couldn't find a match for BCI6 in a search. http://www.atlex.com/index.html Don Dunlap > This is a link to the home page of that site. I couldn't find a match for > BCI6 in a search. > > http://www.atlex.com/index.html > > Don Dunlap Well, the bci 6 cartridges are used in the i950, i960, pixma 3000, 4000 et al. SignatureLarry Lynch Mystic, Ct. << I am still trying to decide which large format printer to buy. >> Me too. I'd like to have a 24" wide or better printer. The H-P 130 does 24x64's but I haven't seen the quality. Considering 13" wide printers -- both the Canon and Epson seem like excellent choices. However, I still use the Noritsu printer at Costco (Bend, Oregon) for 12x18 color prints on Fuji Crystal Archive papers (66+ year quality) for $2.99. Best, Conrad Conrad Weiler Camp Sherman, Oregon Epson 7600 Hands down. > << I am still trying to decide which large format printer to buy. >> > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Conrad Weiler > Camp Sherman, Oregon >I am still trying to decide which large format printer to buy. The Epson >2200 will take paper other than Epson, and I like that feature. I have [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >Don Dunlap I have an i9900 and have tried Canon, Epson and Ilford glossy papers, all with excellent results. I also have an Epson 870 which also handles all those papers well. The Canon is much faster and has a far wider gamut. I don't know about longevity. I'm 48 years old so I figure 30 years is just about right :-) Seriously, there are too many variables to be able to predict print life. Do you store under glass or in the dark. Do you seal the print with laquer. What type of paper do you use. Ink is only one factor. The Canon's a bit more than half the price of the Epson here, does 8 colors and is outragiously fast. The Epson has a longer history and has some pro accessories available (like bulk ink tanks) that might be useful. I checked them both out and bought the Canon. You might feel otherwise. I think they're both great printers. Philip >>I am still trying to decide which large format printer to buy. The Epson >>2200 will take paper other than Epson, and I like that feature. I have [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > I checked them both out and bought the Canon. You might feel > otherwise. I think they're both great printers. Do they have Profiles for the main papers, and do you use them? SignatureJohn McWilliams > Do they have Profiles for the main papers, and do you use them? I have a Canon S9000 (the predecessor to the 9900 being discussed.) I recently found Ilford papers and have been _very_happy with the results. The 9000 always performed great on Canon paper, but I really feel Ilford give superior quality with this printer. Ilford does provide color profiles for their papers. I am using Classic Pearl paper with the profile from Ilford and the results are amazingly accurate to my screen. I am using a Macintosh to print, with Colorsync on. My prints are made primarily from PhotoShop. It is important to note that I select my color management in PhotoShop and then make sure it is turned OFF in the printer driver. It is important that you do NOT color manage the output twice. This problem is possible in other programs and other OS. If you have color management turned on in both places the quality of the prints will suffer (regardless of paper brand.) --Joe >>Do they have Profiles for the main papers, and do you use them? > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Pearl paper with the profile from Ilford and the results are amazingly > accurate to my screen. I am too, just didn't know if they had them for the 9900. > I am using a Macintosh to print, with Colorsync on. My prints are made > primarily from PhotoShop. It is important to note that I select my [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > If you have color management turned on in both places the quality of > the prints will suffer (regardless of paper brand.) If colorsync is on, isn't that additional management? I keep checked the box: No color management in the printer driver dialogue. Also printing from Mac OS (Jag.) and PS CS. My source is always Adobe RGB 1998, and my print space goes to whatever paper Profile is appropriate, with Relative Colorimetric and Black point compensation also chosen. Please view the above as more a question than a statement of what is absolutely the best; I am new to printing and want to learn. SignatureJohn McWilliams > >>Do they have Profiles for the main papers, and do you use them? > > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Please view the above as more a question than a statement of what is > absolutely the best; I am new to printing and want to learn. Yes, Ilford does have profiles for the 9900. Your settings are correct (I went through a long trial and error process several months back, testing several configurations. Between that and what I was able to find out by looking and asking around, I feel comfortable in stating this setup as the "optimum" for a Mac/Canon 9xxx series and Ilford papers), To add a bit and explain a little better... First, calibrate your monitor. If you do not have a third part solution, use the Apple System Prefs utility. Turn on colorsync. In ColorSync Utility (found in /Applications/Utilities) Set RGB Default to "Adobe RGB (1998)" Note that this is the not the best profile to use on images that will be posted on the web. For web images, you should use an sRGB profile. In PhotoShop CS, go to "Color Settings" in the PhotoShop menu and select "ColorSync Workflow." This will automatically set you workin spaces to the values selected in "ColorSync Utiiliy" above. When printing from photshop, first select your printer and paper size in "Page Setup." Then when you want to print, select "Print with Preview" from the file menu. At the bottom of the Print with Preview window, "Show More Options" should be checked. In the "Print Space" dialog, choose the correct paper profile. Intent should be "Relative Colormetric" and "Use Black Point Compensation" should be checked. Press the "Print" button and the "standard" print dialog opens. In the 3rd drop down menu (under "Printer" and "Presets") select "Color Options." Make sure that "Color Correction" is set to "None." PhotoShop is already color managing the image, per the above steps. If you do not select "none" here, the image will be color managed twice and will not print as well (usually a color cast), This last point is where many people get messed up. I had a magenta cast to my photos, and it took me a while to figure out that this setting had to be turned off when printing from PS. On the other hand, I leave "Color Correction" set to "ColorSync" when printing from iPhoto. Of course, you want to also select "High Gloss Photo FIlm" and "Priniting a Top Quality Photo" under "Quality and Media" (for the Ilford stock. Canon, or other paper may have different setting here). Hope this helps. --Joe >>>>Do they have Profiles for the main papers, and do you use them? >>> [quoted text clipped - 76 lines] > > Hope this helps. I guess the short answer to my question would be, "Yes, I have color management turned off when printing from PS, but turn it on when printing from iPhoto."- that was the crux of my original question. Good outline I am sure will help many. The Ilford Gallerie paper I use (Classic Pearl) calls for a different setting, but of course, it's a different printer. They specify Colorlife photo paper setting. I presume you mean you have selected the Apple Colorsync conversion engine in the color settings dialogue in PS prefs.? SignatureJohn McWilliams > I guess the short answer to my question would be, "Yes, I have color > management turned off when printing from PS, but turn it on when [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I presume you mean you have selected the Apple Colorsync conversion > engine in the color settings dialogue in PS prefs.? John, hehe - sorry for the long-winded answer. I have seem so much confusion revolving around print settings/printing that I tend to over-explain things. I don't have a setting for "colorlife" - that must be something in the 9900 print driver (which is not present in the 9000 driver). And yes... the Apple Colorsynd conversion engine in on in PS color settings. I believe that is turned on automatically when you select "ColorSync Workflow" from the "Settings" drop down menu. --Joe >>I guess the short answer to my question would be, "Yes, I have color >>management turned off when printing from PS, but turn it on when [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > settings. I believe that is turned on automatically when you select > "ColorSync Workflow" from the "Settings" drop down menu. It's real difficult to not get confused, but writing it down certainly helps. The Colorlife setting comes in the Epson R300 drivers. But selecting Colorsync in PS color preferences does not mean it is or should be selected in the print dialogue. In each profile I use or set up, I carefully check that it's turned off in the print set up. SignatureJohn McWilliams >>I am still trying to decide which large format printer to buy. The Epson >>2200 will take paper other than Epson, and I like that feature. I have [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > I have an i9900 and have tried Canon, Epson and Ilford glossy papers, > all with excellent results. I get pooling of ink on the Ilford paper. Really disappointing because the Ilford paper is much cheaper and still has good longevity ratings. Signature-- Ben Thomas - Software Engineer - Melbourne, Australia My Digital World: Kodak DX6490, Canon i9950, Pioneer A05; Hitachi 37" HD plasma display, DGTEC 2000A, Denon 2800, H/K AVR4500, Whatmough Encore; Sony Ericsson K700i, Palm Tungsten T. Disclaimer: Opinions, conclusions, and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of my employer shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. I am also trying to chose between the canon 9900i and the epson 2200. have used the Epsons 1200 and 1280 and am very happy with them excep for slow print speed and high ink cost. I use the printers, besides 13x19 color presentation prints, for CA drawings. That is, vector based lines for construction drawings Can anyone tell me which model prints CAD information better (curve thin lines, hatches..) Thank Steffe -- Steffe brought to you by http://www.wifi-forum.com > I am also trying to chose between the canon 9900i and the epson 2200. I > have used the Epsons 1200 and 1280 and am very happy with them except [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Thanks > Steffen The Epson 2200 sucks a.s. The heads are clogged when it's turned on, the heads clog between pages, the heads need to drain half of the $80 ink supply after sitting for a few days. There also seems to be a feature that randomly feeds 4 to 10 extra inches of $2/foot roll paper through the electric cutter. You can waste $50 of ink and paper on just a few prints. |
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