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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / ZLR Cameras / October 2005Limux FZ30
So I picked up the new FZ30 this afternoon! It has a nice feel to it, a very professionally produced piece of equipment. Now I have a couple of hours of instruction reading, during which I can charge up the battery, before trying the thing out. My supplier had ordered 10 cameras, but only received three. There were 40 people on his waiting list so I feel that I did well to get one of the first. Best regards, Robert R. PS Anyone want to buy an FZ10 ? :-) > PS Anyone want to buy an FZ10 ? :-) grin, I've promised my '10 to my dad next year, if/when I buy a '30 ;) pete  Signaturepete@fenelon.com "Obviously crime pays, or there'd be no crime"-G Gordon Liddy So......how do you like the new FZ30?? Is the noise a big problem or not? > So I picked up the new FZ30 this afternoon! It has a nice feel to it, a > very [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > PS Anyone want to buy an FZ10 ? :-) -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 415 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try www.SPAMfighter.com for free now! Hello Jack, So far I am very impressed with it. Workload has meant that I have had little time to test it, and I have to admit that so far it has merely been play, but I can give you some first impressions. I ordered the FZ30 because it seemed to me to have rolled up all the best functions into one camera. I particularly like the speed with which it turns on. With its fixed in position lens there is no need to wait for lens extension, it simply turns on. Presumably this helps with battery life too, there is no power wasted on pushing that lens out when you turn on. Its fast focus mode is very fast, in most circumstances it almost amounts to simply point and shoot with a good crisp focus in every case. In practice shutter lag is non-existent. No doubt I could measure it with some sort of instrument and it may turn out to be .06 of a second, but in practice one presses the shutter and it takes a shot. As a long time user of "old" SLRs I was never really happy with digitals that use a little thumb lever to change the zoom, so going back to a lens ring is a great pleasure. Ditto the manual focus. Noise is not a problem, not at least as far as I can see. For instance it copes extremely well with night shots. Setting it up on a tripod and letting it decide its own exposure results in a picture of a relatively dark street scene that is amazingly sharp, noiseless and really quite spooky in the detail that it has picked out. It is far better in this respect than the FZ10 and way excels any of the Olympus cameras that have I used. I am also impressed with the way it holds the contrast in bright sun light. Shadows remain dark, while lit objects stand out clear and bright. I have had other digital cameras that tried to smooth out these contrasts and only ended up making a mess of the scene. The stabiliser is effective too. Out of 4 or 5 hundred shots very very few show any sign of camera shake. Far fewer than with the FZ10 that I used. I should mention that the system is noisy though. Using setting 1, full time stabilisation, you can hear the system working. Agreed it is only noticeable as a low pitched variable buzz and it is not intrusive, you really have to listen hard to hear it. I have ordered extra batteries and an extension shutter cable which I should be able to pick up in the next few days. Next week I am off to Sardinia for a weeks hiking and I hope then to be able to give it a better trial. Take care, Robert > So......how do you like the new FZ30?? Is the noise a big problem or not? > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Paying users do not have this message in their emails. > Try www.SPAMfighter.com for free now! >Hello Jack, > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >Noise is not a problem, If "Noise is not a problem" then why would the professional reviewers (thus far) make such a large issue in point out noise. Are they mistaken or has the conditions under which noise occurs not be specifically defined. It would seem that with more MP on the same small sensor noise would be comparatively greater than the other cameras in the line. >not at least as far as I can see. For instance it >copes extremely well with night shots. Setting it up on a tripod and letting [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > > > > Noise is not a problem, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > small sensor noise would be comparatively greater than the other > cameras in the line. There is no doubt that there is noise, but whether it is a major issue or not depends somewhat on the how individual users perceives these noise levels in their own photographs. At ISO 100 and shooting in conditions with plenty of light, it can be relatively easy to spot noise in the shadows, and also sometimes in other better-lit areas of the image. Although visible on screen at 100%, I still don't know how this noise will show up in 6"x4" prints. As there are plenty of pixels, it may not be all that evident. In any case, noise levels are but one part of a camera's imaging performance, and there are many other aspects of the FZ30's image quality that help to produce nice looking images. Amongst these I would include a pleasing color rendition and an optically sharp lens that produces image detail that seems to be very good. In the end, the FZ30 has its own blend of strengths and weaknesses, just like any other camera. Noise may be a real issue for some people, especially if doing big prints, but for others it may not spoil many of their photographs. SignatureWitold Hi Bill: And thanx for the reply. I've been trying to make up my mind about which one of the 12x-zoom zlrs to buy for several weeks. And the FZ30 sounded like it was a perfect fit - except for the noise problem that the reviewers keep harping on. If it's something that only shows up in technical reports - and doesn't actually look bad - I could probably live with it. When Costco gets them in stock, I'll buy one. So if it's something I just can't tolerate, I know I won't have a problem returning it. I guess we have to make some compromises when we buy almost anything. And the FZ30 seems to have ALL of the bases covered - even with the reviewers, except for the noise. Have a good trip! > Hello Jack, > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > practice shutter lag is non-existent. No doubt I could measure it with > some sort of instrument and it may turn out to be .06 of a second, but in > practice one presses the shutter and it takes a shot. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > spooky in the detail that it has picked out. It is far better in this > respect than the FZ10 and way excels any of the Olympus cameras that have > I used. > > I am also impressed with the way it holds the contrast in bright sun > light. Shadows remain dark, while lit objects stand out clear and bright. > I have had other digital cameras that tried to smooth out these contrasts > and only ended up making a mess of the scene. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > should be able to pick up in the next few days. Next week I am off to > Sardinia for a weeks hiking and I hope then to be able to give it a better > trial. > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >> Paying users do not have this message in their emails. >> Try www.SPAMfighter.com for free now! -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 110 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try www.SPAMfighter.com for free now! > Hi Bill: And thanx for the reply. > I've been trying to make up my mind about which one of the 12x-zoom zlrs [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > covered - even with the reviewers, except for the noise. > Have a good trip! FWIW, I have the FZ20 and depending on shooting conditions there is sometimes visible noise in my pictures when viewed on the computer. If I intend to regularly viewed a picture on the computer, for instance if I turn it into a wallpaper, I may process it with NeatImage to remove the noise. However, if I'm going to print the picture it doesn't appear to make much difference - the noise is not apparent in my prints and I go up to 8x10. I don't know if there's a digital camera of any make or model that produces prints that are completely free of noise if examined closely on a computer screen. That said, it's still a good idea to buy the camera from a dealer you can return it to if it doesn't work out <g>. > Noise is not a problem, not at least as far as I can see. For instance it > copes extremely well with night shots. Setting it up on a tripod and letting > it decide its own exposure results in a picture of a relatively dark street > scene that is amazingly sharp, noiseless and really quite spooky in the > detail that it has picked out. It is far better in this respect than the > FZ10 and way excels any of the Olympus cameras that have I used. When you get a chance, could you shoot some night shots with both the FZ30 and your old FZ10? I bet that would help out a lot of us who have been on pins and needles waiting for images from production FZ30's. Paul Allen >When you get a chance, could you shoot some night shots with both the >FZ30 and your old FZ10? I bet that would help out a lot of us who have >been on pins and needles waiting for images from production FZ30's. There's a lot of FZ30 pix in the Panasonic forum on DPreview and from what I've seen they're pretty bad if they contain an shadow area. It may be noise, I don't know, but shadows are grainy with the FZ30. Whatever it is, it's an effect that I haven't seen in pictures from my FZ20. If/when I upgrade, it won't be to the FZ30, it's more likely that I'll go DSLR. Even if the FZ30 is better than the FZ20 and would be the choice if one had nothing; I think that if one has an FZ20 then a DSLR would be the path to go if you desired an upgrade. > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >be to the FZ30, it's more likely that I'll go DSLR. > > Even if the FZ30 is better than the FZ20 and would be the choice if one > had nothing; I think that if one has an FZ20 then a DSLR would be the > path to go if you desired an upgrade. I'm in exactly that situation. Although the FZ30 and a DSLR have different strengths and weaknesses, one still only wants to own so many cameras. Thus, the FZ30 will have to compete with the KM Dynax 5D for my next camera purchase. A DSLR doesn't have a swivelable LCD, which is a great plus for the FZ30 over both the Dynax 5D and my FZ20. OTOH, reviewers say that the swivelable LCD in the FZ30 is rather awkward and impractical compared to the competition. Jan Böhme When taking pics using a DSLR one composes using the viewfinder. When using an EVF I still recommend using the viewfinder. When using any digital camera I recommend using the viewfinder. I see so many people, the majority, holding a camera with arms outstretched composing with an LCD that is constantly in motion. That is why most people do not get great shots when using a digital camera. > > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > > When taking pics using a DSLR one composes using the viewfinder. When > using an EVF I still recommend using the viewfinder. When using any > digital camera I recommend using the viewfinder. I see so many people, > the majority, holding a camera with arms outstretched composing with an > LCD that is constantly in motion. That is why most people do not get > great shots when using a digital camera. agree and disagree. I don't like the EVF on my present camera (oly c-725) at all. In bright light, however, I HAVE to use it with my hand over the camera for shade, where the rear screen becomes almost useless. There are occasions when I find the rear screen a boon and will use it first, these being the time when I would have to find something to climb on to take a picture. I find I can hoist the cam a fair bit over my head and use the screen to get a rough idea of my subject, which isn't ideal but better than nothing. I usually take a few shots as I know at least some will not be good. I also find the screen better when shooting very close to the ground and I'm not usually physically up to getting down and dirty, so as with the high shots I can look at the screen from slightly above and judge the shot that way. Again, hit and miss but better than nothing. SignaturePaul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!") ------------------------------------------------------- Stop and Look http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/ >Even if the FZ30 is better than the FZ20 and would be the choice if one >had nothing; I think that if one has an FZ20 then a DSLR would be the >path to go if you desired an upgrade. There sure are a pile of FZ20 owners changing over to the FZ30 among the DPreview posters. I just don't see it as sensible. > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >the DPreview posters. I just don't see it as sensible. > These are the people who think they will get better pictures by upgrading. They may find getting some photos a little easier and again they may not. While a real pro photographer can get great photos with most cameras; a good camera will make it easier for him/her to do better but the differences between the FZ20/30 will not change a sows ear to a silk purse. That said if the person is really excited about the new camera and really believes the results will due better then many times that will occur. Much like an athlete who does a lot better because he believes in himself. On the flip side of the coin there are bound to be many who are disappointed when they do not achieve the imagined gains. > Even if the FZ30 is better than the FZ20 and would be the choice if > one had nothing; I think that if one has an FZ20 then a DSLR would be > the path to go if you desired an upgrade. I don't see it that way, the P&S and DSLR are two different camera types each with their own advantages and disadvantages. For example, a camera like the Panasonic FZ5 is much lighter, easier to carry, and costs less than any DLSR with an equivalent image-stabilised 432mm zoom would be, but the DSLR will do better in high-ISO situations or if an interchangeable lens facility is required. For the higher-ISO capability in a fixed lens camera, the new Sony is the first example of a different, third path to take: http://www.dpreview.com/articles/sonydscr1/ David >>When you get a chance, could you shoot some night shots with both the >>FZ30 and your old FZ10? I bet that would help out a lot of us who have [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > effect that I haven't seen in pictures from my FZ20. If/when I upgrade, it won't > be to the FZ30, it's more likely that I'll go DSLR. You didn't say whether you were talking about the ISO 80 or the ISO 400 shots on the DPreview samples page. The ISO 400 images are awful, but I don't see any noise to worry about in the ISO 80 shots. The one thing that stood out was the dramatic CA in the macro shot of the Rolex. My old Oly C700 doesn't do that. That review does have a direct comparison between the FZ20 and the FZ30. In the studio still-life shot you can see some noise in the gray-scale and color charts in the FZ30 image. There's some noise in the FZ20 image but it looks less obvious to me. In both cases the noise almost completely disappears if I view at less than 100%. I'd still like to see low-light comparison shots with the FZ30 and either the FZ10 or the FZ20. I know what my C700 does with a 4-second exposure of a 45-minute old sunset. (It's pretty ugly!) I'd like to see what the FZ30 and its kindred do with a similar challenge. Isn't it nice to have choices? You look at the FZ30 images and figure your next step is a DSLR. I look at the same images and see a radical upgrade that is financially within my reach. You going to sell your 20? :-) Paul Allen >You didn't say whether you were talking about the ISO 80 or the ISO 400 >shots on the DPreview samples page. It only matter by degree, the low ISO shats look pretty bad and the high ISO shots are much worse. I bought the FZ30 to upgrade from my c750. I shoot some theatre and the results are much better (lower noise) with the FZ. Also, I didn't need to bring a tripod due to the stabilizer. You can see some comparison shots between the two cameras that I shot in my house. http://www.catskill.net/ekirstein/test_photo_page.htm I just sold my C750 and put my Promaster 5750DX automatic flash on eBay. Ed > >>When you get a chance, could you shoot some night shots with both the > >>FZ30 and your old FZ10? I bet that would help out a lot of us who have [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Paul Allen > I bought the FZ30 to upgrade from my c750. I shoot some theatre and > the results are much better (lower noise) with the FZ. Also, I [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Ed Thanks for posting that, Ed. The noise results are a lot better than the doom merchants predicted! I would do the same as I do on my FZ5, and stick with ISO 50/80/100 for normal use, and only use 200 or 400 where it was essential. The lower ISO pictures, particularly the lowest are really good, with much improved detail and less "over-sharpening" in the FZ30. I do see some effects at ISO 200, and I wouldn't like to shoot a face (with smooth skin tones) at ISO 400. How do you like the camera otherwise? Cheers, David >I bought the FZ30 to upgrade from my c750. I shoot some theatre and the >results are much better (lower noise) with the FZ. Also, I didn't need to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Ed What is the shutter lag with autofocus working? IOW, how would the FZ30 be for shooting kids scampering around in the back yard? After having two Olympus Digitals, I finally feel like I have a worthy camera. Has the feel of my old Nikkormat SLR from decades ago. The size and weight are fine with me. Easier to hold steady than a mini digital. So many great features that I appreciate after two previous digitals. The zoom ring and focus ring on the lens. I like that I can switch between auto focus and manual and macro without going through any menus (switch on side of lens). Fast turn on makes a huge difference. The batteries will last all day, cause I can shut off the camera between shots and never worry about the startup time. It is less than the time it takes me to lift it to my face and get ready to shoot. Love the swiveling screen so I can protect it against my face oils. I almost always use the EVF to shoot and the screen to playback. They are both clear and bright. Of course, the stabilizer is invaluable for me, since I get some shakes. It just has a great feel. Just bought a Sunpak 383 flash for it and love the extra capabilities that gives it. Ed > >I bought the FZ30 to upgrade from my c750. I shoot some theatre and the > >results are much better (lower noise) with the FZ. Also, I didn't need to [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > What is the shutter lag with autofocus working? IOW, how would the > FZ30 be for shooting kids scampering around in the back yard? |
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