Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
PhotoKB Home
Discussion Groups
Digital Photography
Digital PhotoDSLR CamerasZLR CamerasPoint & Shoot Cameras
Film Photography
35 mmLarge FormatMedium formatDarkroomFilm and LabsOther Equipment
Photo Technique
Nature PhotographyPeople PhotographyTechnique General
General Photo Topics
General TopicsAustralian PhotographyUK Photography
DirectoryPhoto Clubs

Photo Forum / Digital Photography / ZLR Cameras / August 2005

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

FZ20 vs S2

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Cordovero - 25 Aug 2005 19:39 GMT
I was looking at both yesterday, and it seemed to me that the Z20 has a much
larger lens.  Is that just an optical illusion (no pun intended)?  Or does
it have to do with the Z20's being stationary and the S2 extends, and is one
better than the other for photo quality?

C
Daniel Silevitch - 25 Aug 2005 19:57 GMT
> I was looking at both yesterday, and it seemed to me that the Z20 has a much
> larger lens.  Is that just an optical illusion (no pun intended)?  Or does
> it have to do with the Z20's being stationary and the S2 extends, and is one
> better than the other for photo quality?

The FZ20 has an extending lens; the upcoming FZ30 has a fixed lens.

I believe the diameter of the FZ20 lens itself is slightly larger than
that of the Canon; you need a larger diameter lens to get the wider
aperture at the long end of the zoom. Additionally, the FZ20 has a focus
ring mounted on the outside of the lens housing, which adds additional
bulk to the whole assembly.

-dms
Thingumy - 26 Aug 2005 12:56 GMT
> I was looking at both yesterday, and it seemed to me that the Z20 has a much
> larger lens.  Is that just an optical illusion (no pun intended)?  Or does
> it have to do with the Z20's being stationary and the S2 extends, and is one
> better than the other for photo quality?

Do a side-by-side comparison over at DPreview, then check out their
sample photos. There probably isn't a lot in it. The decision may come
down to do you prefer say, flip out viewer or hot shoe flash, NiMH AA
cells or LiIon battery.

Signature

Thingumy Bob

Cordovero - 26 Aug 2005 15:58 GMT
Thanks, Bob.  I'm a little bitter about the review sites (dpreview, steve's,
et. al.) -- I think they mix in far too much information of relatively
useless info with tiny nuggets of vital info hidden, and then extreme
vagueness on the most important issues ("could be better at low light
focusing" or "some noise above ISO 200") which, in my opinion, should
warrant some of the effort at analysis that went in to describing every
single menu option..  I've read them all, multiple times!  I think the most
useful feature are comparison photos, but very often they are not really
comparable, because the pictures are taken on different days from different
spots (for the outside photos -- is it that hard to find a spot on the
ground that you always use for the tripod?) and there are even variables in
the inside shots.  I think the review sites are somewhat overrated, which
makes a ng such as this more important and, sorry to say, too little
trafficked.

C

>> I was looking at both yesterday, and it seemed to me that the Z20 has a
>> much
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> down to do you prefer say, flip out viewer or hot shoe flash, NiMH AA
> cells or LiIon battery.
Dave Sill - 26 Aug 2005 17:29 GMT
> Thanks, Bob.  I'm a little bitter about the review sites (dpreview, steve's,
> et. al.) -- I think they mix in far too much information of relatively
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> warrant some of the effort at analysis that went in to describing every
> single menu option..

I disagree. I think they generally do good job, but Imaging Resource
is my favorite. For example, here's the summary of their FZ20
review:

 http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/FZ20/FZ20A13.HTM

These sites may not be perfect, but they're free, and thoroughly
testing/reviewing a camera is a *lot* of work.

If you think they're doing such a poor job, feel free to show them how
it should be done.

-Dave
Cordovero - 26 Aug 2005 17:48 GMT
> If you think they're doing such a poor job, feel free to show them how
> it should be done.

Well, I think Starbucks coffee is sub par:  should I start my own coffee
corporation?

The bottom line is that despite your chivalry, these sites are still trying
to make money.  Some of them started as pure hobbyist nonprofit-type sites,
but most have now taken on advertising/banner ads and commissions on
pricewatch-type-links.  In fact, one of them (I forget the name), has most
of the sample pictures taken in Stanford University housing and campus (I
used to live there).  If you think that isn't a Stanford guy trying to get a
startup going, then you haven't met a Stanford student in the past ten
years.  This doesn't mean that the people who started these sites aren't
geniune camera enthusiasts, but to criticize me for pointing out their
limitations is as silly as suggesting I should shut up and do it myself
rather than harbor a criticism.

I wish the sites had more access to keeping cameras around.  There are some
inherent limitations in their money -- I'll grant you that-- but it does
create a limitation for putting up sample pictures of the same outdoor
fixture taken from different spots on different days with different zooms.
If you had an inventory of some of the cameras around, then you could do
true side by side comparisons, not virtual ones.  At this point, none of the
review sites cited here regularly (and uncritically) compare with an
Anandtech or TomsHardware for managing some objective side by side
comparisons.

I will repeat my criticism as well that they tend to get vague on such
issues as camera noise and low light focusing, when in my opinion, these
issues warrant more effort than taking photos of every menu option.

That's my opinion.

Oh, and the superautomatic espresso machines Starbucks now use make an
inferior espresso.

Cordo
Dave Sill - 26 Aug 2005 19:49 GMT
>> If you think they're doing such a poor job, feel free to show them how
>> it should be done.
>
> Well, I think Starbucks coffee is sub par:  should I start my own coffee
> corporation?

If you think you know why it's sub par, feel strongly enough about it,
and think you can make a successful business out of it, sure, why not?

> The bottom line is that despite your chivalry, these sites are still trying
> to make money.  Some of them started as pure hobbyist nonprofit-type sites,
> but most have now taken on advertising/banner ads and commissions on
> pricewatch-type-links.

Being for-profit doesn't mean they're inferior to nonprofit sites. In
fact, it probably enables them to review a lot more equipment, and to
do a better job of it.

> ...  This doesn't mean that the people who started these sites aren't
> geniune camera enthusiasts, but to criticize me for pointing out their
> limitations is as silly as suggesting I should shut up and do it myself
> rather than harbor a criticism.

I didn't suggest that you should shut up. I merely disagreed with your
opinion.

> I wish the sites had more access to keeping cameras around.

I wish I had a Ferrari.

> There are some
> inherent limitations in their money -- I'll grant you that-- but it does
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Anandtech or TomsHardware for managing some objective side by side
> comparisons.

Again, I must disagree. TomsHardware is rather biased
(pro-Intel/anti-AMD, for example) and poorly-written. And comparing
computer equipment objectively is vastly easier than comparing cameras
objectively.

> I will repeat my criticism as well that they tend to get vague on such
> issues as camera noise and low light focusing, when in my opinion, these
> issues warrant more effort than taking photos of every menu option.

I guess I just don't see the vagueness you're complaining about. Do
you think the Imaging Resource review was vague?

-Dave
Thingumy - 27 Aug 2005 22:52 GMT
> I think the most
> useful feature are comparison photos, but very often they are not really
> comparable, because the pictures are taken on different days from different
> spots (for the outside photos -- is it that hard to find a spot on the
> ground that you always use for the tripod?) and there are even variables in
> the inside shots.

Agreed. I worked in the Consumer Products Evaluation industry and some
of the reviews make me cringe. For comparisons you MUST have consistent
conditions. They might get away with outside shots in California or
Nevada, with pretty regular weather, but even that might require waiting
a day or three  for cloud cover, sun angle, etc to return to their
designated baseline. It probably wouldn't be worth it for anyone running
a web site.

Even interiors could be tricky to do consistently, unless they were
always shot at night with wholly artificial lighting. About the only
thing they can really get consistently are the still-life arrays. I
would like to see a page of fine-print text included amount the Mickey
Mice.

Signature

Thingumy Bob

 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2008 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.