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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / May 2008Sony A350 flash question
I got the HVL 42 flash yesterday. Works great, but I don't understand: I can't use or change red eye reduction. It's ghosted and reads off. With the built in flash I can choose. What's the story here?  SignatureFocus > I got the HVL 42 flash yesterday. Works great, but I don't understand: I > can't use or change red eye reduction. It's ghosted and reads off. > With the built in flash I can choose. > What's the story here? Maybe it's not an option because you shouldn't *need* red eye reduction when you use an external flash. The red eye is caused by having the flash tube too close to the camera's lens. The built-in flash probably is close enough to the lens to occasionally produce some redeye, especially when the subject's eyes are near the center of the frame, but it won't produce nearly as much as small P&S cameras. Those are the ones that need anti-redeye features the most. Nowadays, most small cameras are tending to use in-camera processing after the shot is made to eliminate redeye. If it works, it's a much better solution than trying to reduce (not eliminate) red eye by using the flash to blind the people in your photos just before the shot is taken. > I got the HVL 42 flash yesterday. Works great, but I don't understand: I > can't use or change red eye reduction. It's ghosted and reads off. > With the built in flash I can choose. > What's the story here? 1. as ASAAR points out, the flash is above the lens axis, so less red-eye (you can still get it when people are further away, dark room (dilated pupils), longer lens, wide aperture). 2. The flash attachment does not have (I presume) the function to pop a few zaps at the victim to force his pupils to close a little). My Minolta flashes (which the FL42 is based on) do not. As there is little as unflattering as direct flash, using the flash head angled up, with a sto-fen, lumi-quest or other similar device [or ceiling bounced] pretty much eliminates redeye altogether. Cheers, Alan. Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. >> I got the HVL 42 flash yesterday. Works great, but I don't understand: I >> can't use or change red eye reduction. It's ghosted and reads off. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Cheers, > Alan. Thank you all, but the problem is not the red eyes. I get people with *closed* eyes every time! I thought it would help if a pre flash was fired, so they close their eyes for that and open them for the real flash. Maybe wishful thinking, but there must be some solution, I hope? I got to shoot a wedding soon and I don't think the people are going to be very happy with all eyes closed in all photos... SignatureFocus > Thank you all, but the problem is not the red eyes. > I get people with *closed* eyes every time! [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I got to shoot a wedding soon and I don't think the people are going to be > very happy with all eyes closed in all photos... It might be your shooting style - you may be giving signals to your subjects and they are flinching as they see the subtle signs leading up to - or as - your finger presses down, so they can accurately guess when the flash will come.. (Or I guess it might be a bad anti red-eye system that fires the 'real' flash too late...) For shooting wedding groups, take two of each shot (and if they are important ones, check the results before you let them dissipate, or take more than two), and (see above) slightly vary the delay between whatever it is you do/say to get their attention, and the moment of firing - so they are caught by surprise. If your flash can stand it, try shooting the second image almost instantly after the first. Shots taken in daylight with fill-flash should not be much of a problem as the flash isn't so annoying to the subjects. Keep one eye open as you shoot, and you should be able to tell if any of the main subjects (eg bride and groom!) might have blinked. You can ask if anyone didn't see the flash.. but that method is very fallible! And if you can, consider using available light (eg if it is a bright overcast day).. but there are obvious cautions in regard to white balance, potential for motion blur, quality issues at high isos's, unflattering shadows in bright sunlight, etc.. You might want to practice all this beforehand to get the hang of it. In other words, you need to be confident and know your equipment and techniques *backwards* when about to shoot important events... but we'll assume you are not the main photographer..? >> Thank you all, but the problem is not the red eyes. >> I get people with *closed* eyes every time! [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > techniques *backwards* when about to shoot important events... but we'll > assume you are not the main photographer..? Thanks a lot Mark! No, I'm not the main photographer, but it is a big wedding with some international crowd. I sure will try out your tips. Also I thought maybe to use rear curtain flash. Who knows, it might help. Anyway, I got a lot of time to practice, so I'm not in total chaos and panic.......YET! SignatureFocus > >> Thank you all, but the problem is not the red eyes. > >> I get people with *closed* eyes every time! [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > Thanks a lot Mark! > No, I'm not the main photographer,... Of course you must be dissapointed as a 'professional' photographer. >> Thank you all, but the problem is not the red eyes. >> I get people with *closed* eyes every time! [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > techniques *backwards* when about to shoot important events... but we'll > assume you are not the main photographer..? OK, I already found the problem: in both ADI and TTL the flash sends out a pre flash. Great, because they have the time to close their eyes. So, unless you flash manual, there is no work around that. I don't recall having this problem with Nikon, but I'm not sure. OTOH: I must say, I'm amazed by the quality of the flash pictures: except for a little shadow, it's hard to tell a flash was used... SignatureFocus > OK, I already found the problem: in both ADI and TTL the flash sends out a > pre flash. Great, because they have the time to close their eyes. > So, unless you flash manual, there is no work around that. I don't recall > having this problem with Nikon, but I'm not sure. > OTOH: I must say, I'm amazed by the quality of the flash pictures: except > for a little shadow, it's hard to tell a flash was used... The A350 is a little slow on this. The delay is slightly reduced with the A700, which produces less cases of blinking. I never have had this problem at all - just seems I don't get blinking, even with groups. I know some people who get it all the time and blame the Alpha pre-flash system. If so, how can I shoot fifty or more pictures at an event and get not a single case of blinking? Maybe it's alcohol, they have always had a bottle of wine or two over dinner before the pictures, and perhaps they no longer react to the light. David SignatureIcon Publications Ltd, Maxwell Place, Maxwell Lane, Kelso TD5 7BB Company Registered in England No 2122711. Registered Office 12 Exchange St, Retford, Notts DN22 6BL VAT Reg No GB458101463 Trading as Icon Publications Ltd, Photoworld Club and Troubadour.uk.com www.iconpublications.com - www.troubadour.uk.com - www.f2photo.co.uk - www.photoclubalpha.com - www.minoltaclub.co.uk Tel +44 1573 226032 >> OK, I already found the problem: in both ADI and TTL the flash sends out >> a pre flash. Great, because they have the time to close their eyes. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > David Great solution David! I'll just feed everybody a shipload of booze and start shooting after they are loaded, LOL! But serious, I understood that a Metz 54 flash doesn't use the camera's pre flash. I read it uses it's own electronics to measure the light. Do you happen to know about that? SignatureFocus >>> OK, I already found the problem: in both ADI and TTL the flash sends out >>> a pre flash. Great, because they have the time to close their eyes. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > flash. I read it uses it's own electronics to measure the light. Do you > happen to know about that? Yes, if you set it to work that way. It can use either the pre-flash, or an A setting. It also has a secondary fill-in flash for use with the bounce, adding eye catchlights. I have tested it and found the exposure slightly generous, but the quality of light is excellent. David SignatureIcon Publications Ltd, Maxwell Place, Maxwell Lane, Kelso TD5 7BB Company Registered in England No 2122711. Registered Office 12 Exchange St, Retford, Notts DN22 6BL VAT Reg No GB458101463 Trading as Icon Publications Ltd, Photoworld Club and Troubadour.uk.com www.iconpublications.com - www.troubadour.uk.com - www.f2photo.co.uk - www.photoclubalpha.com - www.minoltaclub.co.uk Tel +44 1573 226032 >> I know some people who get it all the time and blame the Alpha pre-flash >> system. If so, how can I shoot fifty or more pictures at an event and get [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I'll just feed everybody a shipload of booze and start shooting after they > are loaded, LOL! You may still have problems with that solution solution. It may eliminate blinking, but sagging eyelids may need toothpicks or gaffer's tape to keep the subject's eyes open! "Yep. The ones in the group photo with redeye were the designated drivers." > >> Thank you all, but the problem is not the red eyes. > >> I get people with *closed* eyes every time! [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > OK, I already found the problem: in both ADI and TTL the flash sends out a > pre flash. So.... RTFM! out of Focus > >> I got the HVL 42 flash yesterday. Works great, but I don't understand: I > >> can't use or change red eye reduction. It's ghosted and reads off. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > I got to shoot a wedding soon and I don't think the people are going to be > very happy with all eyes closed in all photos... It's only because they don't want to see you. > Thank you all, but the problem is not the red eyes. > I get people with *closed* eyes every time! [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I got to shoot a wedding soon and I don't think the people are going to be > very happy with all eyes closed in all photos... I find the pre-flash on my Minolta 5600HS perfectly timed to induce closed eye shots! The timing is likely identical on your Sony flash as they have the same DNA. Although I did use it at a party a few months ago and I did not get any closed eye shots. Maybe the level of ambient lighting has something to do with the eye physiology and reaction to the pre-flash. An option would be to shoot manual power levels, but you will need to either shoot constant distance/aperture (like many ole pros did) or be quick at evaluating the display and histo and adjusting aperture and manual flash power on the fly. This sucks as an option. IAC, you will need to be quick with flash compensation, esp. if there is a lot of the old black-tux/white-dress mixes. Cheers, Alan Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. >> Thank you all, but the problem is not the red eyes. >> I get people with *closed* eyes every time! [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Cheers, > Alan After some searching I'm going to return the Sony flash and get a Metz 58. It has a shipload more of extras and it seems to work great with Sony. It has a TTL option at which it doesn't pre flash, but measures the light with it's own "eye". Now I'm waiting for it to come available... SignatureFocus > After some searching I'm going to return the Sony flash and get a Metz 58. > It has a shipload more of extras and it seems to work great with Sony. It > has a TTL option at which it doesn't pre flash, but measures the light with > it's own "eye". > Now I'm waiting for it to come available... I would be tempted as well, but you should also consider the higher end Sony flash [ 56 ] which has more options as well. At least compare the features of the existing 56 to the Metz. I almost bought a Metz flash some years ago for Minolta, but it did not integrate as smoothly as the 5400HS and 5600HS. The Minolta flash was more expensive, but I've had no regrets. And by the way, using a pair of flashes, one on camera for fill and one off camera for key makes for very good portraits. Cheers, Alan. Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. >> After some searching I'm going to return the Sony flash and get a Metz >> 58. It has a shipload more of extras and it seems to work great with [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > And by the way, using a pair of flashes, one on camera for fill and one > off camera for key makes for very good portraits. I already considered the Sony 56, but it's more expensive and has less features. The Metz also has a USB port and can be upgraded. The Metz can also be used for wireless flash. But thanks anyway for your suggestions! SignatureFocus > I got the HVL 42 flash yesterday. Works great, but I don't understand: I > can't use or change red eye reduction. It's ghosted and reads off. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > -- > Focus Read The Fine Manual (for the camera) which says: "The red-eye reduction is available only when the built-in flash is used." If you need further hand-holding, you could go here: http://129.33.22.12/release/DSLRA300.pdf and then go to p80, and finally look towards the bottom. > I got the HVL 42 flash yesterday. Works great, but I don't understand: I > can't use or change red eye reduction. It's ghosted and reads off. > With the built in flash I can choose. > What's the story here? A flash? Probably the only light in the house. |
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