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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / September 2007Flash for Canon 40D
I was wondering if anyone could give me a little info on these flashes at Canon. http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ProductCatIndexAct&fcategoryid=141 I cracked open the piggy bank and found I can get a flash and really think I need 1. Everyday is a different location. Sometimes I will need the flash for just a few feet infront and others times I will need to light a very big room. I wish I could get several flashes that I can carry with me and put into different rooms but that might be out of reach for me at this time even if they did make it which I doubt. So what I will have to settle for is the most flexible flash I can afford. I think that flash might be the Speedlite 580EX II. can it work in small rooms as well as large or is something like this just for large rooms. before I pay that kind of money I wanted to see if anyone here can say anything about it. Speed light or Start building a multi room flash kit. any in put would be great. JSM > I think that flash might be the Speedlite 580EX II. can it work in small > rooms as well as large or is something like this just for large rooms. > before I pay that kind of money I wanted to see if anyone here can say > anything about it. Canon flashes are very good in their ability for fine light control ... down to 1/128 of full power. So while it might be a "big" light for a lot of situations it can always be dialed back. An when you want to shoot a slow aperture, then it has plenty of punch. In a closed environment (rooms) you can bounce the light off ceilings and walls to get a softer lighting effect. For a more "studio" look in your shots, the on camera flash can be diffused and shot at 1/2 to 1/4 the power (on subject) of a separate key light. This can all be done wirelessly. (May require a controller, not sure if the 580 has one built in). Cheers, Alan.  Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. >> I think that flash might be the Speedlite 580EX II. can it work in small >> rooms as well as large or is something like this just for large rooms. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Cheers, > Alan. Thank you Alan. I just did some reading and found that this flash can work as the master for slave flashes. Later I will look into smaller slave flashes. I also changed my order and will be getting the ef28-135mm kit but keeping and wide angle lens. Its not the best lens I know but next is the tripod and slave flashes. I paid an extra 75 dollars to get it here faster. I hope Tuesday :). I think this group really helped me pick a good camera. thanks to all. B&H might be on the menu for tomorrow if they are open to look at tripods. that shouldn't be that much its for indoor shooting but I would like the option to get around 6 feet high and still be able to use the backpacks tripod attachment and still be able to sit on my motorcycle. JSM > Thank you Alan. > I just did some reading and found that this flash can work as the master for > slave flashes. > Later I will look into smaller slave flashes. You're welcome. The *key* point here is that the on-camera flash is typically fired at a lower power than the off camera flash (fill v. key) at least for portraits and most subjects where a sense of volume and texture is required. Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. >> Thank you Alan. >> I just did some reading and found that this flash can work as the master [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > at least for portraits and most subjects where a sense of volume and > texture is required. while I will find time to take other kinds of pictures. mostly for indoor shooting and not of people. basically just empty apartments and some will have furniture. right now one of the uses for this type of flash might be... lets say I am standing in the very bright sun lit part of the apartment but about 20 or 30 feet away is dark. perhaps if I bounce the flash or the ceiling at a certain angle? lol I don't know at this point I am just guessing. While my skill level is far from pro I do get paid for this work and I am willing to try hard enough to learn how to take pictures like I see on the web sites of those that post here. perhaps 1 day some of you might look at my web site just because you like my pictures :). JSM > For a more "studio" look in your shots, the on camera flash can be > diffused and shot at 1/2 to 1/4 the power (on subject) of a separate key > light. This can all be done wirelessly. (May require a controller, not > sure if the 580 has one built in). http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/ is a very comprehensive resource on how Canon's flashes work. It confirms: Master units: 550EX, 580EX, 580EX II (Group A includes their inbuild flash) ST-E2 (only Group A and B). MR-14EX and MT-24EX (Group A and B include their internal tubes) Slave units: 420EX, 430EX, 550EX, 580EX, 580EX II So the 580 does have a controller, but an inbuild camera flash does not. -Wolfgang > http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/ > is a very comprehensive resource on how Canon's flashes work. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > So the 580 does have a controller, but an inbuild camera > flash does not. Thanks for the link. I have a 550EX and older 430EX. How does the 430 work as a slave? (Yes, I should go read the manual, if I can find it). Roger > I have a 550EX and older 430EX. How does the 430 > work as a slave? (Yes, I should go read the > manual, if I can find it). I only have 420EX as slaves, and they work OK --- they do zoom out all the way to wide angle, though. I understand the 430EX do have an override for that. You have to set the switch to slave on them, and to master on the 550EX. Reading the manual and understanding the above link is important. Basically I place the slaves so that they give good light and use the 550EX as master on the camera: - using it also to fill in - bouncing it - or not adding it's flash power. -Wolfgang > I was wondering if anyone could give me a little info on these > flashes at Canon. Here is a page about buying a flash for Canon: http://hannemyr.com/photo/flash.html Signature- gisle hannemyr [ gisle{at}hannemyr.no - http://hannemyr.com/photo/ ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sigma SD10, Kodak DCS 14n, Canon Powershot G5, Olympus 2020Z ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> I was wondering if anyone could give me a little info on these >> flashes at Canon. > > Here is a page about buying a flash for Canon: > http://hannemyr.com/photo/flash.html Thank you. I think I was tricked at the order. is the Canon 580EX Speedlite I-TTL II Shoe Mount Flash same as the Canon 580EX II? I looked and found that there was an older model. I wanted the 580Ex II. The picture they display say 580EX II but the order says Canon 580EX Speedlite E-TTL II Shoe Mount Flash. I did a search on Google images and found it can be either :(. this is the page on the web site I ordered from http://www.digicombos.com/product_p/cn580ex.htm is that the 580EX or the 580EX II? I tried to compare but the wording was different for my noobieness. thank you JSM >>> I was wondering if anyone could give me a little info on these >>> flashes at Canon. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > JSM Looks a bit fishy to me. Canon's flash metering system actually is called E-TTL II. Both the 580Ex and the new 580Ex II are E-TTL II flashes. So, when I look at that page I also do get the impression that they are selling the 580Ex but try to trick their customers into thinking they are buying a 580Ex II. Peter > I think I was tricked at the order. > is the > Canon 580EX Speedlite E-TTL II Shoe Mount Flash > same as the > Canon 580EX II? Probably not. "E-TTL II" is just the name for latest version of Canon's flash system. It is also supported by the older 580EX flash. > I looked and found that there was an older model. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > is that the 580EX or the 580EX II? I'd be suspicous. The modes listed are: "E-TTL II, E-TTl, TTL & Manual" The E-TTL II has a new mode called "auto", that is not featured. Also the new metal foot isn't mentioned. Why don't you call them and ask? Read about the differences here: http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-580EX-II-Speedlite-Flash-Review.aspx Signature- gisle hannemyr [ gisle{at}hannemyr.no - http://hannemyr.com/photo/ ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sigma SD10, Kodak DCS 14n, Canon Powershot G5, Olympus 2020Z ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>I think I was tricked at the order. >>is the [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > Read about the differences here: > http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-580EX-II-Speedlite-Flash-Review.aspx The enlarged photo shows "580Ex II" so if that's wrong they are outright lying. >>>I think I was tricked at the order. >>>is the [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > The enlarged photo shows "580Ex II" so if that's wrong they are outright > lying. I know... I did call but was not happy with the help. I asked if they could see the box and was told the warehouse was closed. So I cancelled the order. the only honest answer to this is that those in charge of updating the database didn't notice or didn't care that the name is slightly different. in anycase.. after searching the web. that name is the name of the older model.. but in looking at the link above lol.. it says 580 EX II. JSM >> I think I was tricked at the order. >> is the [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > Read about the differences here: > http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-580EX-II-Speedlite-Flash-Review.aspx Thank you for helping me out Gisle. on my reply to Paul I thought your link was the one I posed. duh :). I did call but the person that answered the machine wasn't worth minimum wage. if they were going to send me the older one - it wouldn't have been an honest mistake. thank you again for looking into it for me. thanks also to Peter, Paul and Mary. JSM >> I was wondering if anyone could give me a little info on these >> flashes at Canon. > > Here is a page about buying a flash for Canon: > http://hannemyr.com/photo/flash.html thank you for the link. today while shooting it was a little late in the day and one of the rooms I was taking pictures of was very dark even tho it had a window. the room was so dark that the camera would not take the picture with out flash. I beefed up the ISO to 1600, 30 second shutter speed and still nada. I love the way a long exposure will make even a dark window look bright but for the first time I was unable to do it. I could go earlier in the day but would love to know if there was a way to get that window bright. I wondered if the 580EX II would allow me to add just enough light to get the camera to work and make it look like I did not use a flash. if not I think it would be a nice feature - even if only for me :). as i wrote this I was thinkinking that perhaps if i opened up the apeture the camera would have been able to work in the dark room hmmm. it was set at f11. JSM > today while shooting it was a little late in the day and one of the > rooms I was taking pictures of was very dark even tho it had a window. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > apeture the camera would have been able to work in the dark room > hmmm. it was set at f11. Ah yeah, there's your problem. Try opening up the aperture. That'll give less depth of field but at 10-20mm it's hard to get much out of focus. I'm surprised the camera refused to take a photo in Av aperture priority mode, I just see 'low' if it's going to be underexposed. Maybe just the autofocus was refusing? SignaturePaul Furman Photography http://edgehill.net Bay Natives Nursery http://www.baynatives.com >> as i wrote this I was thinkinking that perhaps if i opened up the apeture >> the camera would have been able to work in the dark room >> hmmm. it was set at f11. "Paul Furman" > Ah yeah, there's your problem. Try opening up the aperture. That'll give > less depth of field but at 10-20mm it's hard to get much out of focus. > > I'm surprised the camera refused to take a photo in Av aperture priority > mode, I just see 'low' if it's going to be underexposed. Maybe just the > autofocus was refusing? A few times I did try Tv, Av and P and found that while those settings did give really good looking pictures and if looks were what I was looking for with a tri-pod any one of those would have worked great. For what I do or perhaps its better to say for the look I want those settings and my skill level do not produce the brightness I want. I guess changing the ISO every time I change directions is a choice but I find it is easier to use Manual. Tomorrow I will see if the cameras settings change in Tv, Av and P modes according to the ISO to produce the very nice but slightly darker than I like pictures. I am thinking I have done this already and thinking it will. I think you are right about the auto focus. The lens is set to auto focus so being it was unable to complete that step it never went on to take the picture. I did hear what I believe sounded like the camera trying to focus. My next guess would be that if I switched it to manual focus I would have been able to take the pic. perhaps a few small button like glow in the dark patches would give the camera something to focus on and then edit them out in elements. now I am wondering if I had some type of glow stick in a tissue or something to give the room just a drop more light. I wish I knew if I could make the 580EX II give that kind of light.. more like glow mode instead of flash. Thank you I will go back and try a better aperture. I wish someone would have been able to snap a picture of my face at the moment I thought I had a dead battery. JSM >>>as i wrote this I was thinking that perhaps if i opened up the apeture the camera would have been able to work in the dark room hmmm. it was set at f11. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > A few times I did try Tv, Av and P and found that while those settings did give really good looking pictures and if looks were what I was looking for with a tri-pod any one of those would have worked great. For what I do or perhaps its better to say for the look I want those settings and my skill level do not produce the brightness I want. I guess changing the ISO every time I change directions is a choice but I find it is easier to use Manual. Tomorrow I will see if the cameras settings change in Tv, Av and P modes according to the ISO to produce the very nice but slightly darker than I like pictures. I am thinking I have done this already and thinking it will. I like aperture priority and use that for almost everything. The meter chooses the speed and if that's too slow and a tripod isn't an option, then I increase ISO. To get a little darker, set exposure compensation to a negative number. In manual mode you will look at the meter in the viewfinder and adjust aperture and shutter till it's zeroed out. To make it darker, have it a few ticks to the right of zero. > I think you are right about the auto focus. The lens is set to auto focus so being it was unable to complete that step it never went on to take the picture. I did hear what I believe sounded like the camera trying to focus. My next guess would be that if I switched it to manual focus I would have been able to take the pic. perhaps a few small button like glow in the dark patches would give the camera something to focus on and then edit them out in elements. now I am wondering if I had some type of glow stick in a tissue or something to give the room just a drop more light. I wish I knew if I could make the 580EX II give that kind of light.. more like glow mode instead of flash. Thank you I will go back and try a better aperture. Try bouncing your built in flash at the ceiling with a scrap of tin foil or a white business card taped on. Autofocus before you tighten up the tripod by pointing to a high contrast edge that it can deal with, then put it in manual focus. I'm constantly switching between auto & manual focus; find the switch & use it liberally. > I wish someone would have been able to snap a picture of my face at the moment I thought I had a dead battery. :-) My camera will fire whether it finds focus or not. That can be good or bad. SignaturePaul Furman Photography http://edgehill.net Bay Natives Nursery http://www.baynatives.com > I like aperture priority and use that for almost everything. The meter > chooses the speed and if that's too slow and a tripod isn't an option, > then I increase ISO. To get a little darker, set exposure compensation to > a negative number. In manual mode you will look at the meter in the > viewfinder and adjust aperture and shutter till it's zeroed out. To make > it darker, have it a few ticks to the right of zero. either I am getting better with elements or the better image of the 40d allows me to make darker areas much brighter. Thank you for reminding me. I must start doing a little with exposure compensations. My camera has different settings. I was wondering what settings you would use when taking pictures for diplay on web. right now I am saving them as 425 x 267 my choices are 2.5 megs which i tried 1st 5.3 megs. is what I am using now and I do see a difference - or I am getting better I know i dont need 10megs. but I do stretch some pictures. I also have the choice of small raw at 2.5megs or Raw at 10.1 megs. > Try bouncing your built in flash at the ceiling with a scrap of tin foil > or a white business card taped on. I guess you mean just fold a lip on a business card and tape it. and try bending the card to different angles. > Autofocus before you tighten up the tripod by pointing to a high contrast > edge that it can deal with, then put it in manual focus. I'm constantly [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > My camera will fire whether it finds focus or not. That can be good or > bad. Monday I will be taking more pictures and will try the business card, napkin and perhaps tinfoil. or just make myself a tin foil hat :). thanks again JSM >>I like aperture priority and use that for almost everything. The meter >>chooses the speed and if that's too slow and a tripod isn't an option, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > either I am getting better with elements or the better image of the 40d allows me to make darker areas much brighter. I was amazed when I moved to a DSLR how much more I could adjust the images... and that's just jpeg. > Thank you for reminding me. I must start doing a little with exposure compensations. My camera has different settings. I was wondering what settings you would use when taking pictures for diplay on web. right now I am saving them as 425 x 267 my choices are 2.5 megs which i tried 1st 5.3 megs. is what I am using now and I do see a difference - or I am getting better I know i dont need 10megs. but I do stretch some pictures. I also have the choice of small raw at 2.5megs or Raw at 10.1 megs. Well since it's for work, I guess that makes sense, I always shoot at max resolution & quality though, just in case I make a masterpiece. RAW will let you stretch the exposure even more, reduce contrast, etc. >>Try bouncing your built in flash at the ceiling with a scrap of tin >>foil or a white business card taped on. > > I guess you mean just fold a lip on a business card and tape it. > and try bending the card to different angles. I made a little plastic holder that slides into the flash shoe and the card tapes onto that. You may need even bigger than a business card with wide angle and plain walls you'll see anything that sneaks around. > Monday I will be taking more pictures and will try the business card, > napkin and perhaps tinfoil. > or just make myself a tin foil hat :). :-) > thanks again > > JSM SignaturePaul Furman Photography http://edgehill.net Bay Natives Nursery http://www.baynatives.com > I wondered if the 580EX II would allow me to add just enough light to get > the camera to work > and make it look like I did not use a flash. JSM- You might try bouncing the flash off a white surface such as a ceiling. There are also "umbrellas" and "blimps" for use with flash, that may accomplish what you are trying to do. Fred > today while shooting it was a little late in the day and one of the > rooms I was taking pictures of was very dark even tho it had a window. > the room was so dark that the camera would not take the picture with > out flash. I beefed up the ISO to 1600, 30 second shutter speed and > still nada. > as i wrote this I was thinkinking that perhaps if i opened up the > apeture the camera would have been able to work in the dark room hmmm. > it was set at f11. f11, ISO 1600, 30 seconds? Were you trying to shoot at moonlight or something? Did the green dot in the viewfinder blink (AF failed to get a fix?) > I wondered if the 580EX II would allow me to add just enough light to > get the camera to work and make it look like I did not use a flash. if > not I think it would be a nice feature - even if only for me :). To use flash and let it look "normal" is a skill one has to learn. The 580EX II, I and the 550EX are certainly up to it, so is the 430 and 420EX, given the right camera and not asking them for more light than they can give. They can also project a red grid for the AF to lock on to. -Wolfgang >> today while shooting it was a little late in the day and one of the >> rooms I was taking pictures of was very dark even tho it had a window. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Did the green dot in the viewfinder blink (AF failed to get a > fix?) I dont know :( I didnt check but the camera worked fine when I put the lights on. with the lights on it was hard to get the colors I wanted even with making changes to wb. Ithink there was a tint in the glass. >> I wondered if the 580EX II would allow me to add just enough light to >> get the camera to work and make it look like I did not use a flash. if [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > -Wolfgang I did see a book I liked on flash photography and it will probably help. There is a lot that I need to learn and I guess I am lucky that I find it very interesting not only to take the pictures but even just talking about it here. I couldn't put a price on how much you and others have helped me. JSM >today while shooting it was a little late in the day and one of the rooms I >was taking [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >would have been able to work in the dark room hmmm. >it was set at f11. If the camera's light meter is set to average the entire scene, that bright window light doesn't really do much. You'll probably have a lot more of the scene, such as in the corners and at the back of the room, in very dark shadows. The overall effect is that the camera doesn't think there is much light at all, even though part of it might be well enough lit. Set the camera light meter for spot metering. (I am assuming it has that functionality. If not, get up close to the well lit part of the scene to use the light meter.) Take a reading from some part of the well lit area that appears to be about middle gray to you. Lock that reading in, and take a picture. Look at your results (or at a histogram) and adjust up or down as desired. Or just bracket and see what you get. To brighten it up with a flash and yet not make it look like a typical harshly lit flash exposure, use just about the same technique to see how much natural light there is, and then try to add just about an equal amount with the flash, but do it by diffusing it all around the room. You might want to put the flash on manual and do this by experimentation. Regardless, the trick is to get as much diffusion as possible. Cover the flash with a diffuser, aim it away from the scene you are photographing and get only light bounced of the walls or the ceiling. If you do that just right it is even possible to match the inside light (mostly from the flash) with that bright window and make it so that objects seen through the window are also exposed correctly (more or less, depending on what you want the effect to be). SignatureFloyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson> Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com > If the camera's light meter is set to average the entire > scene, that bright window light doesn't really do much. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > are also exposed correctly (more or less, depending on what > you want the effect to be). hello and thank you very much. I had wanted to wait until I got the flash to reply but that might take a few more days. the windows used to look much better on my Nikon when I slightly over exposed. I am a bit unhappy at the pictures I took yesterday and not sure if its a result of my skill or just some apartments don't look good no matter what I try. with no flash it makes my options on what I can try harder. for example I wanted to show the sun lit kitchen and darker with no window livingroom in the same picture. with the sun and the light no WB would give a steady color. there were different kinds of light in the kitchen and livingroom so I went with the sun light. I always shoot with the lens at its widest and have been using Av. most of the time the window is not centered would it be easier in a certain mode if I tried to center it? I am going to try today and get my web site up and show what I am talking about. these are the modes my camera has. EVALUATIVE METERING an all around metering mode sited for portraits and even backlit subjects. The Camera sets the exposure automatically to suit the scene. Partial Metering: Effective when the background is much brighter than the subject due to backlighting. Partial metering covers around 9% of the viewfinders area at the center. Spot Metering: This is for metering a specific part of the subject or scene. The metering is weighted at the center covering about 3.8% of the viewfinder area. Center Weighted Average Metering: The metering is weighted at the center and then averaged for the entire scene. thank you JSM I am not planning on buying any at this time but was wondering if anyone here has attachments for their flash that might come in handy for the type of photography I do. just to give you a better idea of the type of pictures I take. I usually go into an apartment and take pictures against the wall in every corner. How many times my camera is in a corner and against the wall depends on how many rooms X 4 if the apartment has a nice feature I will take one or two pics like that. I am very curious to see just how well this new camera does with no tripod but at the same time if i need to take 2 exposures and merge them perhaps a tripod will be needed. Maybe with this new wider angle lens I can put myself between the wall and the camera but would rather not for rooms that measure something like 6' x 5'. I feel like a kid just before Christmas lol except these days the toys dont show unless I buy them :( Still feels good. JSM |
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