I am a total newbie to manual settings but I try.
right now I am thinking that I should first think what the ISO setting
should be.
then f stop and then shutter speed.
if you walked into an empty apartment or house how would you determine the
settings for your first pic?
today for the first time I will be experimenting with EV. I think this will
allow me to see out the window
and at the same time not make the apartment seem so dark.
JSM
Paul Furman - 27 Aug 2007 17:54 GMT
> I am a total newbie to manual settings but I try.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> if you walked into an empty apartment or house how would you determine the
> settings for your first pic?
Assuming no tripod, shutter speed is the first descision. Then increase
ISO if you need more DOF.
If you have a tripod, forget ISO, consider the DOF you want, set the
aperture & let the shutter land where it may.
> today for the first time I will be experimenting with EV. I think this will
> allow me to see out the window
> and at the same time not make the apartment seem so dark.
EV is exposure compensation? You'll be able to brighten the room but the
window will blow out so make 2 exposures & merge later.

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Just Shoot Me - 27 Aug 2007 21:39 GMT
>> I am a total newbie to manual settings but I try.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Assuming no tripod, shutter speed is the first descision. Then increase
> ISO if you need more DOF.
at this point I am still using a tripod. when I get MY NEW CAMERA :) I will
start
experimenting no tripod with faster shutter speeds. I tried that before but
found the pictures came to dark in order
to stop a blur. I now know that apeture and ISO can help me out here also
my photo editor.
but right now a tripod makes it a bit easier for me.
it is very good to finally talk to people about this stuff. I was lucky
enough today to see someone using the
newer rebel. he said it was his first dslr and very happy he made the
change. but that was as far as it got.
> If you have a tripod, forget ISO, consider the DOF you want, set the
> aperture & let the shutter land where it may.
for now the tripod works great for the window switch. tonight I will see
what the help files say
about merge :).
>> today for the first time I will be experimenting with EV. I think this
>> will allow me to see out the window
>> and at the same time not make the apartment seem so dark.
>
> EV is exposure compensation? You'll be able to brighten the room but the
> window will blow out so make 2 exposures & merge later.
o :( i thought the EV would help brighten the shadows with out too much
effect on the already
light areas. Mege sounds like it is something I need to learn. I might
need to spend the left over money
on an upgrade to the real adobe photoshop. I know I have to atleast down
load the trial to see what it has.
1 of the books I am reading does have a bit of a tutorial in it for adobe
photoshop elements.
I hope I have a chance tonight to do a side by side comparison.
JSM
Just Shoot Me - 30 Aug 2007 16:45 GMT
>> I am a total newbie to manual settings but I try.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Assuming no tripod, shutter speed is the first descision. Then increase
> ISO if you need more DOF.
no more tripod for me in most cases. Shutter speed I guess for hand held
will most of the time
be at atleast 1/60. I think that is the fastest I will ever need for
stationary objects.
what do you keep your F stop at for setting up. I usually only adjust using
shutter speed to the point that its a little
to light then darken with apeture.
I need to do some reading on depth of field because I dont fully understand
what that means.
> If you have a tripod, forget ISO, consider the DOF you want, set the
> aperture & let the shutter land where it may.
for the first time yesterday I took a few pics at 400 ISO they didnt come
out as grainy as I thought they would.
>> today for the first time I will be experimenting with EV. I think this
>> will allow me to see out the window
>> and at the same time not make the apartment seem so dark.
>
> EV is exposure compensation? You'll be able to brighten the room but the
> window will blow out so make 2 exposures & merge later.
I wonder if this is something I can do with out a tripod. I guess that
might depend on how steady
the camera is held between shots. mulit shot might also help but not sure
if the 40D has that.
i couldnt get it to work the few times I tried it on my nikon.
I just tried to merge the 2 pictures togething using adobes help files..
probably need to google it.
JSM
Jürgen Exner - 27 Aug 2007 18:03 GMT
> I am a total newbie to manual settings but I try.
In my opinion you rarely need total manual settings and in 99% of cases they
don't give you much advantage.
> right now I am thinking that I should first think what the ISO setting
> should be. then f stop and then shutter speed.
I almost always leave the camera on "Program" mode (not "Scene mode",
because you cannot adjust anything there).
Let the camera select the defaults. Then I check the numbers and decide if I
need to adjust some parameter like aperture to correct the DOF or shutter
speed to emphazise or eliminate movement, etc. The "Program" mode will still
ensure a proper exposure! And then adjust the EV if I want a special effect
there.
Aperture priority or shutter priority are nice if you take multiple photos
in the same situation and you want to set limits to the one of those values.
> if you walked into an empty apartment or house how would you
> determine the settings for your first pic?
Let the camera figure it out. Then adjust whatever parameter you think will
result in a better picture.
> today for the first time I will be experimenting with EV. I think
> this will allow me to see out the window
> and at the same time not make the apartment seem so dark.
Probably not. The contrast between inside and outside is usually way too
large to have both areas exposed properly in a single shot, at least unless
you use artificial lighting (flash, studio lights, ...) inside.
Other option: take two photos, one with good exposure inside, the other with
good exposure outside, and merge them in a photo editor.
jue
Just Shoot Me - 27 Aug 2007 20:51 GMT
>> I am a total newbie to manual settings but I try.
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> I almost always leave the camera on "Program" mode (not "Scene mode",
> because you cannot adjust anything there).
I read this just before I went out. Sounded great... I said.. IM going to do
that.
but found I could not adjust things in Program mode at least not like I am
used to.
after I do a bit of work I will read the manual on Program mode and see what
I was doing wrong.
thank you for the great tip and great post thank you..
JSM
Alan Browne - 27 Aug 2007 18:36 GMT
> I am a total newbie to manual settings but I try.
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> allow me to see out the window
> and at the same time not make the apartment seem so dark.
Unless the window area is huge, there is often so much light difference
as to require a bit of flash indoor to bring the apartment up to the
exposure for the outside.
Think in terms of composition including depth-of-field.
Think in terms of image sharpness due to camera stability (tripod).
Think in terms of subject motion (if any).
Now re-think focal length, aperture setting (depth of field).
re-think "motion freezing" (subject and need for tripod).
How much light is there?
Finally come to speed (shutter speed + subject motion) and thence
required ISO.
Reciprocity is three variables:
film speed, shutter speed and aperture.
Cheers,
Alan

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Just Shoot Me - 27 Aug 2007 21:47 GMT
>> I am a total newbie to manual settings but I try.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> to require a bit of flash indoor to bring the apartment up to the exposure
> for the outside.
I always thought there was something I was doing wrong or beyond my cameras
ability.
> Think in terms of composition including depth-of-field.
>
> Think in terms of image sharpness due to camera stability (tripod).
>
> Think in terms of subject motion (if any).
> Alan
I see I will have lots of thinking to do :). I am finally at this stage
were I can think of these things.
I just used to keep trying different settings. there is also something on
my camera that will let me take a burst of pictures
at different exposures. I still have not tried that. I don't think MY NEW
40D is going to have it so why bother.
Its time to do some thinking. Now its time to edit the pictures I have
taken today.
thank you very much
JSM
Pat - 27 Aug 2007 21:30 GMT
On Aug 27, 12:45 pm, "Just Shoot Me" <SpamSti...@SpamStinks.com>
wrote:
> I am a total newbie to manual settings but I try.
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> JSM
I can't really comment on any "program" or "scenic" modes because I've
never used them and have no idea how they work. My guess would be
that they end up making a whole bunch of bad decisions for you.
If you need to start somewhere, put your camera in shutter priority
mode, often abbreviated Tv. Now spin your adjustment wheel or do
whatever it is you do on your camera and set the shutter on 1/60th for
indoor without a flash or 1/200 otherwise. Set your ISO to 400. Use
200 if you are outside on a bright day.
Now your camera will take care of the rest, within reason.
If you want to go "manual", and that's not nessarily a bad idea --
then use the same ISO and shutter setting. Start at your lowest
aperature indoors -- probably something like f2.8 or f4 or possible
f5.6.
Now look through your viewfinder and there should be some sort of
metering, possibly lights left and right of center. Otherwise, just
take a picture, see what it looks like, and adjust accordingly.
Jürgen Exner - 27 Aug 2007 23:34 GMT
> On Aug 27, 12:45 pm, "Just Shoot Me" <SpamSti...@SpamStinks.com>
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> never used them and have no idea how they work. My guess would be
> that they end up making a whole bunch of bad decisions for you.
Well, those Scene (not scenic) modes are coming from compact cameras and
they work reasonably well in maybe 80% of the typical cases for those
cameras. They are e.g. Portrait, Landscape, Night, ... For the remaining 20%
they do make bad decisions and even worse, the settings cannot be overruled
in those modes.
"Program" mode is totally different. It enables the camera to control
exposure automatically, just like shutter or aperture priority modes, except
that the camera will try to balance both, shutter and aperture. Details can
usually be found in a graph in the operating manual.
The big advantage compared to Scene modes is that in Program mode you can
adjust either to match your artistic needs while still trusting the camera
to automatically correct exposure as needed.
jue
Just Shoot Me - 31 Aug 2007 01:13 GMT
"Pat" <groups@artisticphotography.us> wrote in message
> If you need to start somewhere, put your camera in shutter priority
> mode, often abbreviated Tv. Now spin your adjustment wheel or do
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> metering, possibly lights left and right of center. Otherwise, just
> take a picture, see what it looks like, and adjust accordingly.
I think I may have first read this post late at night and half asleep.
I wish I could go higher on the ISO or open the Apeture more than 2.6 at
widest.
Doing it like you said above the colors seems to stand out much more for
some reason.
I could slow up shutter speed and see if it gets the shakes.
I guess that might be the only choice if aperture is at its widest and ISO
is at 400.
not really sure at this point what I can do with the different metering
settings.
that is what I will look into next.
Thank you
JSM
Just Shoot Me - 27 Aug 2007 23:48 GMT
I really wish my web site was up already.
While one of the places I took pictures turned out to be a waste of time.
Everytime I look at the pictures I start to laugh.
wall to wall clothes everyplace. no place to sit with out sitting on
clothes.
i guess i should be happy that there was nothing floating in the water.
JSM
Matt Clara - 28 Aug 2007 03:15 GMT
>I am a total newbie to manual settings but I try.
>
> right now I am thinking that I should first think what the ISO setting
> should be.
> then f stop and then shutter speed.
Shutter and aperture affect composition, so the first thing you do is
compose your picture and then choose your shutter and aperture to support
that composition. There are some times (often times) other constraints,
such as low light and lack of a tripod, which will cause you to adjust
shutter/aperture, but ultimately you're there to make a picture, so it's
envisioning that picture that comes first.
And, if that's too ephemeral an answer, I've been shooting for over a
decade, and with my dslrs I tend to set ISO immediately upon entering a
scene I intend to shoot. If I don't, I sometimes forget to set it
altogether, particularly if I was shooting with high ISO previously. It
sucks when the department director says, get this portrait, and then it's
full of noise...

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Just Shoot Me - 28 Aug 2007 16:01 GMT
>>I am a total newbie to manual settings but I try.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> And, if that's too ephemeral an answer,
> www.mattclara.com
Not at all. It made it seem very simple.
I compose the composition by adjusting the
Shutter and Apertue that supports the composition I composed.
Just Shoot Me - 28 Aug 2007 19:49 GMT
>>>I am a total newbie to manual settings but I try.
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> I compose the composition by adjusting the
> Shutter and Apertue that supports the composition I composed.
I hope that didn't look rude. I was just poking a little fun at myself for
getting so confused.
Thomas T. Veldhouse - 28 Aug 2007 20:58 GMT
>> Not at all. It made it seem very simple.
>> I compose the composition by adjusting the
>> Shutter and Apertue that supports the composition I composed.
>
> I hope that didn't look rude. I was just poking a little fun at myself for
> getting so confused.
Hmm ... overly worried about offense that nobody took? More imiprimine
perhaps? :-)

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machinations of the wicked.
ASAAR - 31 Aug 2007 03:31 GMT
> I am a total newbie to manual settings but I try.
>
> right now I am thinking that I should first think what the ISO setting
> should be.
> then f stop and then shutter speed.
I think that most people try to keep the ISO setting as low as
possible, in order to keep image quality high, and then raise it as
a last resort. The setting to set first might depend on the type of
shot you're trying to take and whether you're using flash or not.
For pictures that have subjects or objects moving quickly, using a
fast shutter speed might be most important, so you'd try setting
that first. You might set the aperture first if the most important
thing was to minimize or expand the depth of field. Look at a wide
assortment of magazine pictures and try to imagine what aperture and
shutter settings the photographers might have used. Not the
specific settings, but the general direction the photographer was
going to.
So if you were taking a picture in a relatively empty room where
little or nothing in the image is close, you might be able to use a
wide aperture, which might be desirable if there isn't much light.
But if there are many objects in the room and many different
distances, you'd probably want a small aperture to keep everything
relatively sharp. Unless for a particular effect you wanted some
objects to appear out of focus. Then if you find that there's not
enough light to use the desired settings, you could increase the ISO
and you might be able to reach the desired settings. If not, or if
only a very high, too noisy ISO setting would work, you might want
to use an old fashioned ISO fixing device, known as a tripod. :)
> if you walked into an empty apartment or house how would you determine the
> settings for your first pic?
Set the camera on auto, half press the shutter, and see what
settings the camera chose. If you're familiar with the effect of
changing aperture and shutter speed by a single stop, it should be
very easy after a little practice to be able to mentally translate
the camera's exposure setting into any other equivalent combinations
of apertures and shutter speeds. If (as mentioned above) you have
an idea whether the shutter speed or aperture will be more
important, you can start off by putting the camera into aperture
priority mode or shutter speed priority mode, setting the associated
setting to a reasonable value, and see what the camera chooses for
the other exposure setting.
> today for the first time I will be experimenting with EV. I think this will
> allow me to see out the window
> and at the same time not make the apartment seem so dark.
??? If you change the EV (exposure compensation?), the indoor and
outdoor light will change by the same amount, which wouldn't help.
I think that to do what you're attempting, you need to be able to
control one source of light so that it's approximately equal to the
other. For example, if it's bright outside, you might have to add
several indoor lights to get the indoor and outdoor levels equal.
If you can't control the indoor lights, you'd control the outdoor
light by shooting early enough (or late enough) in the day so that
the outdoor light level is reduced to the point that it's near to
the level of the indoor light. :)
Just Shoot Me - 31 Aug 2007 16:05 GMT
>> I am a total newbie to manual settings but I try.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> that first. You might set the aperture first if the most important
> thing was to minimize or expand the depth of field.
Look at a wide
> assortment of magazine pictures and try to imagine what aperture and
> shutter settings the photographers might have used. Not the
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> distances, you'd probably want a small aperture to keep everything
> relatively sharp.
Unless for a particular effect you wanted some
> objects to appear out of focus. Then if you find that there's not
> enough light to use the desired settings, you could increase the ISO
> and you might be able to reach the desired settings. If not, or if
> only a very high, too noisy ISO setting would work, you might want
> to use an old fashioned ISO fixing device, known as a tripod. :)
>> if you walked into an empty apartment or house how would you determine
>> the
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> the outdoor light level is reduced to the point that it's near to
> the level of the indoor light. :)
Your post was great.
I want to go over it a few times and try what you said tomorrow and then I
will reply.
plus I woke up late and have a ton of work to do.
I just wanted to say thank you at this point.
JSM