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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / August 2007

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Expensive DSLR with 100% Viewfinders

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Frank Arthur - 27 Aug 2007 12:29 GMT
High end DSLR's costing many thousands of dollars have large CMOS
areas (24x36mm) and feature 100% viewfinders demanded by Pros

Yet, if you personally want to make borderless prints of them
using your high end Inkjet Printer you can only buy paper 4"x6"
paper.

You can buy many sizes of Inkjet Paper like 8x10, 8.5x11 or A4
(210x297mm) but you cannot buy 8x12 borderless paper.

Does that seem reasonable?

Please focus on the single question here.
ASAAR - 27 Aug 2007 12:48 GMT
> High end DSLR's costing many thousands of dollars have large CMOS
> areas (24x36mm) and feature 100% viewfinders demanded by Pros
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Please focus on the single question here.

 Several months ago you graced us with this :

> On Sat, 19 May 2007 13:15:10 -0400, Frank Arthur wrote:
>
>> Why can't you buy 8 x 12 inch Photo Paper for Epson or HP Printers?
>>
>> 35mm Film Cameras and Digital Cameras use the 2:3 proportions
>> so they would fit 8 x 12 paper yet none is available. Anyone know why?

 Will you post permutations of this same message every several
months, knowing in advance what the answer is bound to be?  Please
focus on this single question.

 I'll bet that until you were able to leave home (assuming that you
ever did), you refused to eat unless your mother cut your food into
neat, small, bite sized pieces.  The solution to your problem is to
buy your mother a paper trimmer, troll.
Frank Arthur - 27 Aug 2007 13:19 GMT
Sorry "ASAAR" but you were unable to focus on the single question
asked.

1. In future post to soc.culture.dunce
2. Who is the troll? (clue "ASAAR")

>> High end DSLR's costing many thousands of dollars have large CMOS
>> areas (24x36mm) and feature 100% viewfinders demanded by Pros
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> neat, small, bite sized pieces.  The solution to your problem is to
> buy your mother a paper trimmer, troll.
Matt Clara - 27 Aug 2007 22:31 GMT
> Sorry "ASAAR" but you were unable to focus on the single question
> asked.
>
> 1. In future post to soc.culture.dunce
> 2. Who is the troll? (clue "ASAAR")

You are, you dim-witted jackass.
Jürgen Exner - 27 Aug 2007 13:03 GMT
[...]
> You can buy many sizes of Inkjet Paper like 8x10, 8.5x11 or A4
> (210x297mm) but you cannot buy 8x12 borderless paper.
[...]

Does anybody else fell like he is having a deja-vu experience?

jue
John Bean - 27 Aug 2007 13:18 GMT
>[...]
>> You can buy many sizes of Inkjet Paper like 8x10, 8.5x11 or A4
>> (210x297mm) but you cannot buy 8x12 borderless paper.
>[...]
>
>Does anybody else fell like he is having a deja-vu experience?

Deja vu "all over again" in fact :-)

Signature

John Bean

Frank Arthur - 27 Aug 2007 13:36 GMT
Sorry  "John Bean" but you were unable to focus on the single question
asked.

1. In future post to soc.culture.dunce
2. If you think that I may not address my questions to this forum
and try to drum up interest in Injet Paper that matches the millions
of 2:3 format DSLR users then you know where you can go.
3. Learn to control yourself and behave with decent decorum.
4. The subject of 100% Viewfinders that I introduced here for
the first time. Find out what  Deja vu means instead of parotting
another dunce.
5. Once again learn to control yourself and behave with decent
decorum.

>>[...]
>>> You can buy many sizes of Inkjet Paper like 8x10, 8.5x11 or A4
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Deja vu "all over again" in fact :-)
John Bean - 27 Aug 2007 13:50 GMT
>Sorry  "John Bean" but you were unable to focus on the single question
>asked.

Sorry Frank, you just don't seem to know how to ask sensible
questions.

But you sometimes make a mildly amusing sideshow out of your
general ignorance and social ineptitude, so do carry on
while I settle down with a box of popcorn... again :-)

PS: do learn how to edit and post articles on Usenet,
there's a good chap.

Signature

John Bean

Frank Arthur - 27 Aug 2007 14:23 GMT
"John Bean" you have presented your point of view here in this forum.
In future try to respect my point of view with your usual angry,
viscious attacks because YOU don't think my question is "sensible".
Either restrain yourself or give up popcorn!

>>Sorry  "John Bean" but you were unable to focus on the single
>>question
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> PS: do learn how to edit and post articles on Usenet,
> there's a good chap.
Toni Nikkanen - 27 Aug 2007 14:24 GMT
> "John Bean" you have presented your point of view here in this forum.
> In future try to respect my point of view with your usual angry,
> viscious attacks because YOU don't think my question is "sensible".
> Either restrain yourself or give up popcorn!

What are you trying to sell, anyway?
David J. Littleboy - 27 Aug 2007 14:29 GMT
>> "John Bean" you have presented your point of view here in this forum.
>> In future try to respect my point of view with your usual angry,
>> viscious attacks because YOU don't think my question is "sensible".
>> Either restrain yourself or give up popcorn!
>
> What are you trying to sell, anyway?

Prozac?

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
Frank Arthur - 27 Aug 2007 15:04 GMT
>>> "John Bean" you have presented your point of view here in this
>>> forum.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> David J. Littleboy
> Tokyo, Japan

I'm not selling Prozak but I may need to buy some if more people like
"John Bean" continue to write.
David J. Littleboy - 27 Aug 2007 15:11 GMT
>>> What are you trying to sell, anyway?
>>
>> Prozac?
>>
> I'm not selling Prozak but I may need to buy some if more people like
> "John Bean" continue to write.

Too late. Your need for it was severe prior to JB's chipping in. You really
need to chill.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
John Bean - 27 Aug 2007 15:25 GMT
>>>> What are you trying to sell, anyway?
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>Too late. Your need for it was severe prior to JB's chipping in. You really
>need to chill.

But at least his posting style has suddenly improved :-)

Signature

John Bean

Charles - 27 Aug 2007 17:53 GMT
>>> "John Bean" you have presented your point of view here in this forum.
>>> In future try to respect my point of view with your usual angry,
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>David J. Littleboy
>Tokyo, Japan

Please don't give Prozac a bad name.
Frank Arthur - 27 Aug 2007 15:02 GMT
>> "John Bean" you have presented your point of view here in this
>> forum.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> What are you trying to sell, anyway?

Simple. In the USA, where the metric system is still not accepted, the
inch (25.4mm) is the standard of measurement. One of the more popular
sizes of prints are 8" x 12" which match the 2:3 ratio of many DSLR
cameras.
You cannot buy 8"x12" Inkjet Paper so you cannot use your Inkjet
Printer to make borderless prints and I have been trying to get other
US camera users interested in what I consider a shortcoming.
I cannot explain the anger and ire directed at a small number of
complainers who DEMAND that I not bring up the subject or I must not
try to draw interest in adding that size paper.
Jürgen Exner - 27 Aug 2007 17:18 GMT
> You cannot buy 8"x12" Inkjet Paper so you cannot use your Inkjet
> Printer to make borderless prints and I have been trying to get other
> US camera users interested in what I consider a shortcoming.

Well, apparently nobody else in this audience is interested in this crusade
of yours. Maybe because they have this paper, maybe because they don't need
this paper, maybe because they found a work-around, maybe they just use
paper cutters, maybe they don't like you as the crusade commander, maybe
they are lazy slobs, maybe there is some totally different reason.
Whatever the reason, obviously there is no interest in your crusade here.

> I cannot explain the anger and ire directed at a small number of
> complainers who DEMAND that I not bring up the subject or I must not
> try to draw interest in adding that size paper.

What earned you the anger and ire is not your initial posting but your
prayer wheel like repetition of a topic that nobody else is interested in.

Personally I think you are barking up the wrong tree anyway, but that is
just my personal opinion.

jue
Frank Arthur - 27 Aug 2007 18:18 GMT
>> You cannot buy 8"x12" Inkjet Paper so you cannot use your Inkjet
>> Printer to make borderless prints and I have been trying to get
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> jue

It must be wonderful to be able to know what other people feel and
what they believe. Even more astounding to have the ability to know
what other people will not believe or follow. There are over a billion
people in this world KNOW that there is one Allah who set Mohammed to
spread the ONE TRUE religion, Islam, for EVERYONE to follow. So what's
the point of other people expressing their point of view if everything
is already decided?
I will continue to push for 8x12 paper and you can either accept it or
not.
If anyone gets angry about it they can attend an anger magagement
class.
Jürgen Exner - 27 Aug 2007 18:52 GMT
> "Jürgen Exner" <jurgenex@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> What earned you the anger and ire is not your initial posting but
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> what they believe. Even more astounding to have the ability to know
> what other people will not believe or follow.

Nothing magic about it in this case and actually I am a very poor mind
reader. But I do read what other participants in this NG wrote and I am able
to draw conclusions about _their_ opinions based on _their_ responses. And
they are not favourable for your cause, regardless if your cause is itself
is valid or not.

> I will continue to push for 8x12 paper and you can either accept it or
> not.

That is certainly your right and you are welcome to do so. However you
shouldn't be surprised if -based on past responses- you won't gather a large
fellowship in this audience but rather be ridiculed for your -in most
peoples view in this NG- misplaced crusade.

> If anyone gets angry about it they can attend an anger magagement
> class.

I wouldn't call it angry. Annoyed about meaningless repetitive ramblings
would probably be more to the point.

Why don't you take it up with the manufactures of said photo paper?

jue
Frank Arthur - 27 Aug 2007 22:07 GMT
>> "Jürgen Exner" <jurgenex@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> What earned you the anger and ire is not your initial posting but
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>
> jue
I have done so with Epson.

There is no way Epson doesn't know that they provide 4x6 paper for the
2:3 digital  but not 8x12. And they know they are pioneers in the
quality borderless printing area but for whatever business decision,
they are not meeting my needs. While most people accept whatever is
handed to them by manufacturers or suppliers it is always a small
number of movers and shakers, complainers, demanders & insisters who
make the changes
that we all benefit from.
To someone who will object to someones request to add 8x12 Inkjet
Paper (to match the evergrowing 2:3 market) to other sizes of paper is
insane. It is taking nothing away from anyone and proposing yet
another
option and a need to match digital format to paper.
The fact that louts get angry or annoyed will not silence me.
peter kelsey - 27 Aug 2007 22:24 GMT
> The fact that louts get angry or annoyed will not silence me.

From what most of us have seen, the only "angry lout" around
here would be you.

And you're a redundant, BORING f.ck, too.
Pete D - 28 Aug 2007 01:46 GMT
>> The fact that louts get angry or annoyed will not silence me.
>
> From what most of us have seen, the only "angry lout" around
> here would be you.
>
> And you're a redundant, BORING f.ck, too.

They're his good points, right?
peter kelsey - 28 Aug 2007 02:06 GMT
>>>The fact that louts get angry or annoyed will not silence me.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> They're his good points, right?

Well, aside from the one he can cover with a comb-over, it's the
only "point" he's got.
Tony Polson - 27 Aug 2007 19:07 GMT
>If anyone gets angry about it they can attend an anger magagement
>class.

Tell us all the classes you tried, and we can be sure to avoid them.
Frank Arthur - 27 Aug 2007 22:09 GMT
>>If anyone gets angry about it they can attend an anger magagement
>>class.
>
> Tell us all the classes you tried, and we can be sure to avoid them.
The a.shole class. So I've just blocked your garbage.
Frank Arthur - 27 Aug 2007 13:29 GMT
Sorry  "Jürgen Exner" but you were unable to focus on the single
question asked.

1. In future post to soc.culture.dunce
2. If you think that I may not address my questions to this forum
and try to drum up interest in Injet Paper that matches the millions
of 2:3 format DSLR users then you know where you can go.
3. Learn to control yourself and decent decorum.

> [...]
>> You can buy many sizes of Inkjet Paper like 8x10, 8.5x11 or A4
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> jue
Tony Polson - 27 Aug 2007 13:40 GMT
>High end DSLR's costing many thousands of dollars have large CMOS
>areas (24x36mm) and feature 100% viewfinders demanded by Pros
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>Does that seem reasonable?

Yes, perfectly.

>Please focus on the single question here.

I just did.
Frank Arthur - 27 Aug 2007 14:07 GMT
Congratulations "Tony Polson"
Thank you for being the first person to answer the question
and expressing your point of view.

>>High end DSLR's costing many thousands of dollars have large CMOS
>>areas (24x36mm) and feature 100% viewfinders demanded by Pros
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> I just did.
l v - 27 Aug 2007 15:35 GMT
> High end DSLR's costing many thousands of dollars have large CMOS
> areas (24x36mm) and feature 100% viewfinders demanded by Pros
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Does that seem reasonable?

It is reasonable.  Since the USA paper makers are not seeing the
business reasons for doing so, perhaps it is time for you to move into
the professional printer market.  Pro printers like a PIXMA Pro9000
support printing 11" x 14" photos on 13" x 19" paper giving far more
flexibility than 8x12.

> Please focus on the single question here.

I think I stayed focused on the single question.

Signature

Len

Frank Arthur - 27 Aug 2007 16:12 GMT
Thank's for your opinion and suggestion "l v".
You certainly focussed on the question and you were helpful.

>> High end DSLR's costing many thousands of dollars have large CMOS
>> areas (24x36mm) and feature 100% viewfinders demanded by Pros
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> I think I stayed focused on the single question.
Michael Benveniste - 27 Aug 2007 16:14 GMT
> You can buy many sizes of Inkjet Paper like 8x10, 8.5x11 or A4
> (210x297mm) but you cannot buy 8x12 borderless paper.
>
> Does that seem reasonable?
>
> Please focus on the single question here.

Your question is unreasonable because you _can_ buy 8x12 borderless
paper or any other size you like:

http://www.redrivercatalog.com/CS/customsizes.htm

Sharp enough focus for you?

Signature

Michael Benveniste -- mhb-offer@clearether.com
Spam and UCE professionally evaluated for $419.  Use this email
address only to submit mail for evaluation.

Frank Arthur - 27 Aug 2007 17:19 GMT
>> You can buy many sizes of Inkjet Paper like 8x10, 8.5x11 or A4
>> (210x297mm) but you cannot buy 8x12 borderless paper.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Sharp enough focus for you?

Not quite because your statement is wrong and misleading.
"Your question is unreasonable because you _can_ buy 8x12 borderless"

First I would have to buy larger paper, pay to ship it to the company
that cuts paper, pay a cutting fee and pay again to have the order
shipped back.
If you want to be more truthful and accurate in your statement you
should have stated "your larger size paper could be custom cut to your
size at
a company that specializes in cutting paper to size.
Sorry. No cigar.

> Michael Benveniste -- mhb-offer@clearether.com
> Spam and UCE professionally evaluated for $419.  Use this email
> address only to submit mail for evaluation.
Michael Benveniste - 27 Aug 2007 17:50 GMT
> Sorry. No cigar.

To paraphrase an old joke often attributed to a famous cigar
smoker:  "We have already determined what you can buy.  We
are now just arguing price."

True, you'll pay more per sheet for 8x12" paper than you
would for 13x19".  But if you're willing to pay the price
the market is asking for 8x12" paper, you can buy it.  How
that supplier chooses to make it is irrelevant to your
original question.

We could get into a long conversation about supply, demand,
niche markets and arbitrage costs if you like, but it would
change the focus from your original question.  Would you care
to revise that question?

Signature

Michael Benveniste -- mhb-offer@clearether.com
Spam and UCE professionally evaluated for $250.  Use this email
address only to submit mail for evaluation.

Frank Arthur - 27 Aug 2007 22:23 GMT
>> Sorry. No cigar.
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> change the focus from your original question.  Would you care
> to revise that question?

The original question:
"High end DSLR's costing many thousands of dollars have large CMOS
areas (24x36mm) and feature 100% viewfinders demanded by Pros

Yet, if you personally want to make borderless prints of them
using your high end Inkjet Printer you can only buy paper 4"x6"
paper.

You can buy many sizes of Inkjet Paper like 8x10, 8.5x11 or A4
(210x297mm) but you cannot buy 8x12 borderless paper.

Does that seem reasonable?"

I cannot revise the original premise because I would have to change
the issue of suppliers matching 2:3 camera to 8x12 paper.
frederick - 27 Aug 2007 21:42 GMT
>>> You can buy many sizes of Inkjet Paper like 8x10, 8.5x11 or A4
>>> (210x297mm) but you cannot buy 8x12 borderless paper.
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> a company that specializes in cutting paper to size.
> Sorry. No cigar.

What's the point of buying it or getting it cut for
_borderless_ printing?
Your inkjet printer will only print in borderless mode on
standard paper sizes, and 12x8 inches isn't one of them.
Frank Arthur - 27 Aug 2007 22:14 GMT
>>>> You can buy many sizes of Inkjet Paper like 8x10, 8.5x11 or A4
>>>> (210x297mm) but you cannot buy 8x12 borderless paper.
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> Your inkjet printer will only print in borderless mode on standard
> paper sizes, and 12x8 inches isn't one of them.

Good and interesting information. I didn't know that of the Epson
Stylus Photo R1800. If so it would be a large omission on the part of
Epson since I print borderless 4x6's using their paper to match my 2:3
digital size.
On the other hand Epson just goofed by, with coordination with
Photoshop the new Epson R1800/Photoshop drivers they now distribute
don't work correctly. If you contact them they will give you a work
around.
frederick - 27 Aug 2007 22:29 GMT
>>>>> You can buy many sizes of Inkjet Paper like 8x10, 8.5x11 or A4
>>>>> (210x297mm) but you cannot buy 8x12 borderless paper.
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> don't work correctly. If you contact them they will give you a work
> around.

What new R1800/Photoshop drivers?
Frank Arthur - 27 Aug 2007 23:27 GMT
>>>>>> You can buy many sizes of Inkjet Paper like 8x10, 8.5x11 or A4
>>>>>> (210x297mm) but you cannot buy 8x12 borderless paper.
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
>>
> What new R1800/Photoshop drivers?

Go the Epson USA site and download drivers
Frank Arthur - 28 Aug 2007 13:18 GMT
>>>>>> You can buy many sizes of Inkjet Paper like 8x10, 8.5x11 or A4
>>>>>> (210x297mm) but you cannot buy 8x12 borderless paper.
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
>>
> What new R1800/Photoshop drivers?

Sorry. I forgot to mention the new Epson drivers without mentioning
the fact that it I use Photoshop CS3 & Windows.
Floyd L. Davidson - 29 Aug 2007 15:33 GMT
>> Not quite because your statement is wrong and
>> misleading.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>on standard paper sizes, and 12x8 inches isn't one of
>them.

Why would it not print 8x12 borderless?  That's a driver
configuration, not a hardware limit.

I've never printed anything at 8x12, but it is one of
the paper size options for the Gutenprint drivers used
by CUPS on Linux.

Signature

Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)              floyd@apaflo.com

Siggy - 29 Aug 2007 15:44 GMT
> Why would it not print 8x12 borderless?  That's a driver
> configuration, not a hardware limit.
>
> I've never printed anything at 8x12, but it is one of
> the paper size options for the Gutenprint drivers used
> by CUPS on Linux.

I can print on 8x12 on my venerable old Epson 1200 A3 format printer,
but not borderless. It will always put a margin in, whether I like it or
not. If the problem is with the software, it still seems like a hardware
 limitation to me until they rewrite the software. however, I think I
recall reading somewhere that the newer borderless printers do employ
paper edge detection hardware (sensors?) to assist with that end.

jm2p

Signature

"Democracy is the process by which people choose the man who'll get the
blame." - Bertrand Russell

Frank Arthur - 29 Aug 2007 16:10 GMT
>>> Not quite because your statement is wrong and
>>> misleading.
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> Why would it not print 8x12 borderless?  That's a driver
> configuration, not a hardware limit.

How do I go about setting the driver configuration to make 8x12
borderless prints with the Epson R1800?

> I've never printed anything at 8x12, but it is one of
> the paper size options for the Gutenprint drivers used
> by CUPS on Linux.
Marco S Hyman - 29 Aug 2007 21:28 GMT
> > Why would it not print 8x12 borderless?  That's a driver
> > configuration, not a hardware limit.
>
> How do I go about setting the driver configuration to make 8x12
> borderless prints with the Epson R1800?

You don't.  I do not know if this is a hardware, firmware, or driver
limitation.  The only supported paper sized for borderless printing
are A4, Letter, 8x10, 5x7, 4x6, 11x14, 12x12, 11x17, A3, 13x19, and
8.3x23.4 (?).

See the screenshot of the avalable sizes about 1/3 way down on this
page: http://www.steves-digicams.com/2005_reviews/epson_r1800_pg2.html

When printing non-borderless you can define your own paper size in
addition to selecting from a list of supported sizes.

// marc
Pete D - 27 Aug 2007 20:39 GMT
> High end DSLR's costing many thousands of dollars have large CMOS
> areas (24x36mm) and feature 100% viewfinders demanded by Pros
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Please focus on the single question here.

I see more than one question here, perhaps you should ask in
alt.comp.periphs.printers

Yes it seems reasonable that sensors are large!

Yes it seems reasonable that cameras have 100% viewfinders.

Yes it seems reasonable that paper comes in different sizes.

Yes it seems reasonable that 8 x 11.9 (A4) will be good enough for any
normal sane person.

Yes it seems reasonable that if you cannot get exactly what you want from
the usual places that you might have to try the unusual and pay extra for
the privilage.

Yes it seems unreasonable that you cannot see the forest for the trees.
Doug McDonald - 27 Aug 2007 21:50 GMT
>> High end DSLR's costing many thousands of dollars have large CMOS
>> areas (24x36mm) and feature 100% viewfinders demanded by Pros
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>> You can buy many sizes of Inkjet Paper like 8x10, 8.5x11 or A4
>> (210x297mm) but you cannot buy 8x12 borderless paper.

But you can buy rolls. My $99 printer will print anything up to
8.1x44 inches.

Doug McDonald
Frank Arthur - 27 Aug 2007 22:19 GMT
>>> High end DSLR's costing many thousands of dollars have large CMOS
>>> areas (24x36mm) and feature 100% viewfinders demanded by Pros
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Doug McDonald

And exactly how do I get those 8x12 borderless prints from them?
And the 8.1" wide picture frames? Where do you buy them?
Where they sell 8.1" x 11.6" frames (sarcasm)?
Pete D - 28 Aug 2007 00:52 GMT
>>>> High end DSLR's costing many thousands of dollars have large CMOS
>>>> areas (24x36mm) and feature 100% viewfinders demanded by Pros
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> And the 8.1" wide picture frames? Where do you buy them?
> Where they sell 8.1" x 11.6" frames (sarcasm)?

Learn how to cut mats dude.
Tony Polson - 27 Aug 2007 22:36 GMT
>>> High end DSLR's costing many thousands of dollars have large CMOS
>>> areas (24x36mm) and feature 100% viewfinders demanded by Pros
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>But you can buy rolls. My $99 printer will print anything up to
>8.1x44 inches.

Don't tell him that, Doug, you know he just wants to argue!
Doug McDonald - 28 Aug 2007 16:21 GMT
>>>> High end DSLR's costing many thousands of dollars have large CMOS
>>>> areas (24x36mm) and feature 100% viewfinders demanded by Pros
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Don't tell him that, Doug, you know he just wants to argue!

I guess he is afraid of paper cutters. Of course, one does have the quite
valid argument that a paper cutter never produces EXACTLY 8x12
paper. But that only matters if you want a stack of prints. In which case,
I actually AGREE WITH HIM that 8x12 is needed!

Doug McDonald
Frank Arthur - 28 Aug 2007 16:53 GMT
>>>>> High end DSLR's costing many thousands of dollars have large
>>>>> CMOS
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Doug McDonald

Thanks Doug. I'm all thumbs having to struggle with a less than
perferct cutter and using that guillotine blade 4 times to cut one
sheet of paper.
Pete D - 28 Aug 2007 21:44 GMT
>>>>>> High end DSLR's costing many thousands of dollars have large CMOS
>>>>>> areas (24x36mm) and feature 100% viewfinders demanded by Pros
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> Thanks Doug. I'm all thumbs having to struggle with a less than perferct
> cutter and using that guillotine blade 4 times to cut one sheet of paper.

Look on the bright side, it may only be two cuts to get one sheet.
ASAAR - 29 Aug 2007 01:17 GMT
>> Thanks Doug. I'm all thumbs having to struggle with a less than perferct
>> cutter and using that guillotine blade 4 times to cut one sheet of paper.
>
> Look on the bright side, it may only be two cuts to get one sheet.

 To get one sheet and three thumbs.  :)
Wolfgang Weisselberg - 28 Aug 2007 18:11 GMT
> I guess he is afraid of paper cutters. Of course, one does have the quite
> valid argument that a paper cutter never produces EXACTLY 8x12
> paper. But that only matters if you want a stack of prints. In which case,
> I actually AGREE WITH HIM that 8x12 is needed!

In that case, put wthe whole stack of paper into the cutter
at once and cut them all together, stacked.

That way, you get exactly the identical size ...

-Wolfgang
Frank Arthur - 27 Aug 2007 22:17 GMT
>> High end DSLR's costing many thousands of dollars have large CMOS
>> areas (24x36mm) and feature 100% viewfinders demanded by Pros
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> Yes it seems reasonable that 8 x 11.9 (A4) will be good enough for
> any normal sane person.

Of course! The usual sane person like Pete D and
anyone who doesn't agree with your statement is not sane.

Like- my religion is the one true one- and that's that!

> Yes it seems reasonable that if you cannot get exactly what you want
> from the usual places that you might have to try the unusual and pay
> extra for the privilage.
>
> Yes it seems unreasonable that you cannot see the forest for the
> trees.
Pete D - 28 Aug 2007 00:55 GMT
>>> High end DSLR's costing many thousands of dollars have large CMOS
>>> areas (24x36mm) and feature 100% viewfinders demanded by Pros
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> Of course! The usual sane person like Pete D and
> anyone who doesn't agree with your statement is not sane.

Yes, you are not sane, that seems pretty obvious.

> Like- my religion is the one true one- and that's that!

Luckily my religion is not asking inane questions and preconcieving the
answer.

>> Yes it seems reasonable that if you cannot get exactly what you want from
>> the usual places that you might have to try the unusual and pay extra for
>> the privilage.
>>
>> Yes it seems unreasonable that you cannot see the forest for the trees.
Matt Clara - 27 Aug 2007 22:29 GMT
> High end DSLR's costing many thousands of dollars have large CMOS
> areas (24x36mm) and feature 100% viewfinders demanded by Pros
>
> Please focus on the single question here.

The DSLRs with 100% view finder coverage are:

Olympus E-1
Canon 1D
Canon 1Ds
Canon 1D mk III
Canon 1Ds Mk III
Nikon D2X
Nikon D300
Nikon D3

(The answer makes as much sense as the question.)

--
www.mattclara.com
David Dyer-Bennet - 29 Aug 2007 17:46 GMT
> You can buy many sizes of Inkjet Paper like 8x10, 8.5x11 or A4
> (210x297mm) but you cannot buy 8x12 borderless paper.
>
> Does that seem reasonable?

I miss some of the other paper size options myself.  You can get some
of them by using roll paper, which is available for my Epson printers.

Before digital, quite a few chemical labs were offering 8x12 prints
from 35mm, which is 24x36, ratio of 2:3.

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David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net; http://dd-b.net/dd-b
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Skinner1@hotmail.com - 30 Aug 2007 12:05 GMT
>High end DSLR's costing many thousands of dollars have large CMOS
>areas (24x36mm) and feature 100% viewfinders demanded by Pros
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>Please focus on the single question here.

It's called a paper cutter. I own several and this has never been a
problem for me.
Frank Arthur - 30 Aug 2007 13:47 GMT
> On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 07:29:47 -0400, "Frank Arthur"
> <Art@Arthurian.com>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> It's called a paper cutter. I own several and this has never been a
> problem for me.

Since you have solved the first part of the problem by cutting paper
to 8x12inches with a paper cutter-
How do you now make an 8x12" borderless print if the printer
manufactuers do not allow you to print 8x12" borderless?

Note the Subject: Expensive DSLR with 100% Viewfinders
The issue is why don't paper manufacturers sell standard size (8x12")
paper to match the 2:3 ratio to match?
Jürgen Exner - 30 Aug 2007 16:26 GMT
> Since you have solved the first part of the problem by cutting paper
> to 8x12inches with a paper cutter-
> How do you now make an 8x12" borderless print if the printer
> manufactuers do not allow you to print 8x12" borderless?

Well, here's a novel idea: print first, then cut.

> Note the Subject: Expensive DSLR with 100% Viewfinders

Indeed, it's an odd subject line. What on earth does the viewfinder of any
camera have to do with printing something on paper?

> The issue is why don't paper manufacturers sell standard size (8x12")
> paper to match the 2:3 ratio to match?

Do you see any paper manufacturers around here who could answer your
question? Or would you like us to speculate?

jue
Frank Arthur - 30 Aug 2007 19:11 GMT
>> Since you have solved the first part of the problem by cutting
>> paper
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> jue

Jürgen. Your statement above "What on earth does the viewfinder of any
camera have to do with printing something on paper?" stunned me and
sent me reeling.
Before shooting a single planned image,for  many years using 6x9cm or
4x5 inch cameras, the size and proportions of the finished sheet of
paper was what dictated was going to be on the film. I used standard
masks, custom masks or writing lines with a china marker on the ground
glass to get my compositions exactly as I wanted them to be.
When I moved primarily to 35mm as those cameras began to improve I
used a Nikon F3 because of the ability of its viewfinder to cover
100%.
I carefully scribed lines directly on the ground glass to achieve the
4:5 ratio in order to use paper with those proportions exactly.
Don't misunderstand. I have often included lots of extra area before
shooting and cropped using a large variety of different ratios-
sometimes even different shapes. But when I wanted to exactly compose
a planned to print composition I knew exactly where each element fit
in advance and there wasn't a single grain of film wasted.
If you ever looked through the fine older fine quality Linhof Technica
magazines displaying their large format prints, I doubt there was not
a single picture taken without first considering the ratio and size of
the sheet of paper.
Nowadays I shoot Nikon Digital and strictly for fun and pleasure. I
can squeeze off hundreds of images in a day and sometimes even get a
really good one worth enlarging.
 
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