The bane of digital photography (in my perception) is dust/dirt on the
sensor. Had I known about this I would still be waiting to make the
switch from film. But now I just can't go back to hauling a roll out
every 24 shots, threading another one in... AARGH!
I think the key to solving most problems is understanding them - the
concepts involved and the forces at work - etc. But in this case I
have been able to find nothing that even begins to explain why dust is
attracted to the sensor. Some say it's due to static charge but the
battery packs a whopping 7.2 volts - not a lot of charge, there!
Eleven days ago I upgraded from a 20d to a 30d (with a "IS" lens,
which still gives me the willies...). I looked and looked but found
no camera with the ability to change lenses AND enough pixels to do
the job that did not have this problem. Sigma makes a camera (which
is rated as mediocre, in every respect save its sensor) in which the
filter is a fair distance out in front of the sensor, creating a
situation wherein dust is not in focus and does not show. Sadly, that
camera lacks sufficient resolution to be used professionally.
I thought the 30d would have to be better. WRONG. After only 11 days
and about 250 shots the dist is back... not bad enough to panic me
yet, but back. It makes you wonder if this is something designed to
make money after the sale...
So, would everyone please be kind enough to add what you know about
the basis of the problem; about how you clean your sensor safely,
reliably and, above all, at a reasonable cost - pretty well anything
that will help to expose, define and then solve this problem not only
for myself, but for all?
Before I go I suppose a few words, in the way of a review of the 30d
(so far) would be in order. Some, even most say that the differences
between the 20d and the 30d are not enough to warrant the money
expended, in order to upgrade. Myself, I could not disagree more.
My 20d was one of the very first two to appear here, in my little hick
town in the mid-west. I got it the day before they were officially
released. Maybe that is why that cam was soooooooooo funky.
The viewfinder - OH MY GOD! So grainy I was completely unable to
focus, manually. I had to remove it and clean it hard several times
(with acetone!) in order to get whatever miserable coating that was
the source of the grain off of it. I'm not a camera mechanic and that
stuff makes me nervous... and afterwards the viewfinder was still bad,
but usable.
None of my other complaints about the 20d are that strong but, taken
together, they made for a dubious and uncertain relationship with the
cam. I never did trust it. The dust magnet thing certainly did not
help!
The 30d says to me: I'M READY. The years in between must have
provided papa-son Canon with a liberal dose of feedback from 20d
users. The viewfinder does what it should - I can focus manually with
relative ease (but no diopter). The thing weighs a ton, thanks to the
28-135 IS lens which is crystal clear, relatively sharp and seems to
do what is says it will do. The camera is intuitive - the ergs
improved, by light-years. It's not slick, like a Nikon. I don't
really like that. What I do like is the cam being out ahead of me,
waiting for me to do my part and responding, instantly. I think we
are on our way to being joined, at the eyeball .)
One problem, remains. Maybe this will be the message that begins the
process of solving it... ???
newsmb@plcom.net - 28 Jul 2007 01:46 GMT
On Jul 27, 8:19 pm, de_len...@yahoo.com wrote:
> One problem, remains. Maybe this will be the message that begins the
> process of solving it... ???
I've had my Nikon D200 for about a year now, I change lenses fairly
often, and quite honestly I have had to clean it only once and a
simple $10 blower bulb did the trick.
Chris Dubea - 30 Jul 2007 14:43 GMT
>On Jul 27, 8:19 pm, de_len...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>often, and quite honestly I have had to clean it only once and a
>simple $10 blower bulb did the trick.
Same here. I have to wonder if Nikon has some sort of anti-static
coating on the sensor cover because with the air-pumping I get with my
18-200VR I would have expected to have picked up a lot of dust on the
sensor by now.
===========================================================================
Chris

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Scott W - 28 Jul 2007 03:30 GMT
> The bane of digital photography (in my perception) is dust/dirt on the
> sensor. Had I known about this I would still be waiting to make the
[quoted text clipped - 61 lines]
> One problem, remains. Maybe this will be the message that begins the
> process of solving it... ???
If you don't shoot at f/16 or slower dust will not be much of a problem,
at least that is what I have found on both the 20D and 350D. If I go
looking for dust by photographing the sky at f/32 I will normally find a
fair bit, but I don't shoot much at f/32.
Most of the time if I do find dust I can blow it out, with one of those
little bulb blowers, if that does not work then a bit of distiled water
and a cotton swab seems to work the best for me. And I am talking about
a very little bit of water.
I normally go many months without cleaning the sensor, and in a typical
day of shooting I will change the lens a lot, maybe twenty times or more.
Scott
de_lenzer@yahoo.com - 28 Jul 2007 05:08 GMT
> If you don't shoot at f/16 or slower dust will not be much of a problem,
> at least that is what I have found on both the 20D and 350D. If I go
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Scott
=============
Hey, Scott :)
Your results and mine vary, by quite a bit! I have found that cotton
(in ANY form) leaves lint in the camera - big time. I put a cotton
swab in the 20d just once and then tried to get the lint out of it
until I decided to trade it in. It got caught on the edge where the
viewfinder target mounts - ugh. Wiping a lens with cotton balls
leaves a heck of a mess of lint - so much so that I did it only once.
Was talking to Mick today - a guy who is in the pic printing business
and runs kind of a camera store, on a very small scale. He said that
if I had the guts to clean sensors he could send me about a hundred
people - right away! He said he would not do it because of the
liability involved...
While it's true that dust has to be pretty bad before it will actually
show up in mid to large apertures it's still there - just out of
focus. I shot some art hanging in a gallery. I got the shock of my
life! The neutral-gray walls were ALIVE with dots. The day after I
shot cars, outside, and saw nothing. But it was still there,
gradually robbing the quality from the images.
My next thing will be pec pads and some 200 proof alcohol. I bought a
foam rubber "paint brush" (made to trim without slopping the paint all
over) for a dollar or so. It's half an inch wide and very soft. I
will put a pec pad over it, moisten with the alcohol and go.
This is... the stuff of which insanity is made. There is always some
tiny white specs SOMEWHERE. I don't think the ones on the surface of
the lenses show up nearly as bad as the stuff on the sensor. If I had
to remove all the dots from those shots in that gallery... man... I
would be in for a lot of time and work in PS.
Pooh-Man - 31 Jul 2007 13:34 GMT
> If you don't shoot at f/16 or slower dust will not be much of a problem,
> at least that is what I have found on both the 20D and 350D. If I go
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Scott
Why don't you people just fix the dust marks in photoshop afterwards? Seems
like a simple solution to me.
Scott W - 31 Jul 2007 18:23 GMT
>> If you don't shoot at f/16 or slower dust will not be much of a
>> problem, at least that is what I have found on both the 20D and 350D.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Why don't you people just fix the dust marks in photoshop afterwards?
> Seems like a simple solution to me.
Well if you never cleaned your sensor, ever, you would be looking at
cleaning thousands of photos, and to save maybe 5 minutes time cleaning
the sensor.
Scott
Matt Clara - 28 Jul 2007 11:59 GMT
> The bane of digital photography (in my perception) is dust/dirt on the
> sensor. Had I known about this I would still be waiting to make the
> switch from film. But now I just can't go back to hauling a roll out
> every 24 shots, threading another one in... AARGH!
Whoa there, fella. It's not all that bad. I bought one of those cleaning
kits which comes with some liquid to clean the sensor with and a dozen or
more swabs that fit the width of the sensor exactly. It was somewhat
ridiculously priced at something like $50, but I've only used three swabs
thus far, and it's been two years, and they work perfectly:
http://www.photosol.com/swabproduct.htm
(And what do you mean, it's not "slick" like a Nikon? Nikon and Canon both
make some very nice cameras...)
--
www.mattclara.com
Rita Ä Berkowitz - 28 Jul 2007 12:47 GMT
> Whoa there, fella. It's not all that bad. I bought one of those
> cleaning kits which comes with some liquid to clean the sensor with
> and a dozen or more swabs that fit the width of the sensor exactly.
> It was somewhat ridiculously priced at something like $50, but I've
> only used three swabs thus far, and it's been two years, and they
> work perfectly: http://www.photosol.com/swabproduct.htm
Whoa there, Jasper! It is beyond foolishness to pay that kind of money for
sensor cleaning supplies. You guys like overcomplicating the simplest task
to the realm of astrophysics. For Christ's sake if you need to use the
"wet" method just get a PEC-PAD and wrap it around a disposable chopstick
and apply a drop of Eclipse (methanol) and you're set.
If you need to use the "dry" method this is the only approved method that is
universally adopted by all technicians in the photographic industry.
<http://www.geocities.com/ritaberk2006/sensor.htm>
Rita
de_lenzer@yahoo.com - 28 Jul 2007 18:08 GMT
.
> <http://www.geocities.com/ritaberk2006/sensor.htm>
>
> Rita
=============
DANG IT !!
Wouldn't yew no thayut Nikon wud step aeout ahed again...
Yew rekon they'll make one fer cannon? Looks like it just miite be
good fer underwater shootin' two... maybe even outter spase?
Somebody - 29 Jul 2007 02:07 GMT
No need to piss ones self. If it isn't dust it will be something else.
Nothing made by man is perfect. Best to get used to it now. Saves on the
need for asprin.
Somebody!
Alan Browne - 28 Jul 2007 13:00 GMT
Much ado 'bout nothing...
> So, would everyone please be kind enough to add what you know about
> the basis of the problem; about how you clean your sensor safely,
1. Unless you shoot bland, low contrast, low detail scenes at f/16 all
of the time, whatever dust there is (usually little) will not show in
most images.
2. Using the "dust cleaning" routine of the camera, a few sharp blasts
with a blower bulb are all that are needed. Do it with the lens mound
down, so most of the dislodged dust falls downward.
3. If there is persistent dust, then use a swap kit. I've never had to
use one.
4. In 2.3 years I have cleaned my sensor 2 times. That's all that it
has needed despite constant lens changes.

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ASAAR - 28 Jul 2007 21:52 GMT
> 3. If there is persistent dust, then use a swap kit. I've never had to
> use one.
Wouldn't it get expensive having to replace dusty sensors? :)
Alan Browne - 28 Jul 2007 22:12 GMT
>> 3. If there is persistent dust, then use a swap kit. I've never had to
>> use one.
>
> Wouldn't it get expensive having to replace dusty sensors? :)
;-
Alan Browne - 28 Jul 2007 23:46 GMT
>> 3. If there is persistent dust, then use a swap kit. I've never had to
>> use one.
>
> Wouldn't it get expensive having to replace dusty sensors? :)
Every 18 months, about as often as I clean my sensor... that should
please one of the chief idiots around here...
By the way, something to chaw on with you, pls drop me an e-mail ...
mind the Freelunch...
Cheers,
Alan

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-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
ASAAR - 29 Jul 2007 01:21 GMT
> By the way, something to chaw on with you, pls drop me an e-mail ...
> mind the Freelunch...
54321, launched!
Mardon - 28 Jul 2007 13:49 GMT
On Jul 27, 10:19 pm, de_len...@yahoo.com wrote:
<*snip*>
> One problem, remains. Maybe this will be the message that begins the
> process of solving it... ???
It's not that big of a deal once you do it. Pec-Pads, Eclipse
solution and a suitable swab works great. I shoot a lot of macros, so
I have to keep my sensor clean"
http://www.JustPhotos.ca/misc/sensor.htm
Paul Furman - 28 Jul 2007 17:13 GMT
> The bane of digital photography (in my perception) is dust/dirt on the
> sensor.
Noone has mentioned the brush method. Canned air on a soft nylon brush
charges it with enough static to grab the dust. I use a rocket blower &
a cheap makeup brush from a dollar store. Usually just the blower works.

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Brian Sullivan - 28 Jul 2007 17:31 GMT
>> The bane of digital photography (in my perception) is dust/dirt on the
>> sensor.
>
> Noone has mentioned the brush method. Canned air on a soft nylon brush
> charges it with enough static to grab the dust. I use a rocket blower &
> a cheap makeup brush from a dollar store. Usually just the blower works.
I use the same. I bought my brush(es) -one for the sensor, one for the
mirror box on Ebay from this guy:
http://search.ebay.ca/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZbearislandtcQQssPageNameZSTRKQ3
aMEFSQ3aMESOI
Sample of item:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/SENSOR-CLEANING-Brush-Kit-For-Digital-SLRs-CleanSkies_W0QQite
mZ320141983638QQihZ011QQcategoryZ15215QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I bought a Giottos blower locally.
My main concern at the time I purchased this (other than doing it at a
reasonable cost) was a kit that could be carried (or taken on in checked
baggage) on an airplane - which at the time many of the liquid based
cleaners couldn't.
I have cleaned the sensor/mirror box on my D50 successfully and without
incident 4 or 5 times since.

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Brian Sullivan
Courses by Wire (http://www.coursesbywire.com)
Randall Ainsworth - 28 Jul 2007 17:33 GMT
> Eleven days ago I upgraded from a 20d to a 30d (with a "IS" lens,
> which still gives me the willies...). I looked and looked but found
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> situation wherein dust is not in focus and does not show. Sadly, that
> camera lacks sufficient resolution to be used professionally.
RE: Sigma - the camera sucks...in particular the sensor.
newsmb@plcom.net - 28 Jul 2007 18:12 GMT
On Jul 28, 12:33 pm, Randall Ainsworth <r...@nospam.techline.com>
wrote:
> In article <1185581970.536483.15...@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> RE: Sigma - the camera sucks...in particular the sensor.
The Foveon is kinda cool, actually. The 14.5 MP Foveon in the Sigma is
roughly equivalent to a 8 or 9MP APS-C-sized Bayer sensor, which is
fine. It's just that the Sigma does not deliver the resolution
*advantage* that the Sigma and Foveon people are claiming. That said,
if people like the way the Sigma SD14 handles and the photos it
produces they should just use it, takes lots of great photos and not
spend a second worrying about what anyone else thinks.
RichA - 29 Jul 2007 18:17 GMT
On Jul 28, 1:12 pm, new...@plcom.net wrote:
> On Jul 28, 12:33 pm, Randall Ainsworth <r...@nospam.techline.com>
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> produces they should just use it, takes lots of great photos and not
> spend a second worrying about what anyone else thinks.
Body sealing is no guarantee against dust. One reviewer has stated
the Sigma had sensor dust. This leads credence to the Nikon belief
that sensor contaminants originate in-part, in the camera, which is
why they now clean the bodies after having fired the shutter a few
times. But it's obvious some or most dust must come from outside so
body sealing is a good idea that could be emulated by other
companies. In addition, sealing the body with the IR filter rather
than putting it in the sensor filter pack opens up the possibility of
"unfettered" IR photography simply by removing the IR filter from the
front.
Yoshi - 29 Jul 2007 13:23 GMT
> The bane of digital photography (in my perception) is dust/dirt on the
> sensor.
Guys, you are making this too difficult.... just take off the lens and run
the camera through the dishwasher.
RichA - 29 Jul 2007 18:12 GMT
On Jul 27, 8:19 pm, de_len...@yahoo.com wrote:
> The bane of digital photography (in my perception) is dust/dirt on the
> sensor. Had I known about this I would still be waiting to make the
> switch from film. But now I just can't go back to hauling a roll out
> every 24 shots, threading another one in... AARGH!
Most common question when selling digital SLRs on Ebay: "Is the
sensor clean?"