Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
PhotoKB Home
Discussion Groups
Digital Photography
Digital PhotoDSLR CamerasZLR CamerasPoint & Shoot Cameras
Film Photography
35 mmLarge FormatMedium formatDarkroomFilm and LabsOther Equipment
Photo Technique
Nature PhotographyPeople PhotographyTechnique General
General Photo Topics
General TopicsAustralian PhotographyUK Photography
DirectoryPhoto Clubs

Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / July 2007

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Spot the error

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Alan Browne - 17 Jul 2007 21:27 GMT
http://www.aliasimages.com/images/SpotTheError%20PICT5288.jpg
Scott W - 17 Jul 2007 21:47 GMT
> http://www.aliasimages.com/images/SpotTheError%20PICT5288.jpg
One sign would seem to say you can turn left from the center lane,
another seems to say the center lane must go straight.

Scott
Julian. - 17 Jul 2007 22:42 GMT
>> http://www.aliasimages.com/images/SpotTheError%20PICT5288.jpg
> One sign would seem to say you can turn left from the center lane,
> another seems to say the center lane must go straight.
>
> Scott

Nah. They're all on the wrong side of the road. He must have printed the
negative in reverse!

Signature

Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

David J Taylor - 17 Jul 2007 22:59 GMT
>>> http://www.aliasimages.com/images/SpotTheError%20PICT5288.jpg
>> One sign would seem to say you can turn left from the center lane,
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Nah. They're all on the wrong side of the road. He must have printed
> the negative in reverse!

<G>

David
Scott W - 18 Jul 2007 01:09 GMT
>>>> http://www.aliasimages.com/images/SpotTheError%20PICT5288.jpg
>>> One sign would seem to say you can turn left from the center lane,
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> <G>

They look like they are on the right side of the road to me.

Scott
frederick - 18 Jul 2007 01:23 GMT
>>>>> http://www.aliasimages.com/images/SpotTheError%20PICT5288.jpg
>>>> One sign would seem to say you can turn left from the center lane,
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Scott
No - left is right, although neocons disagree.
I was more concerned about how they could implement bilingual direction
arrows, which arrow should be on top, and which should be larger.
C J Campbell - 18 Jul 2007 04:39 GMT
>>> http://www.aliasimages.com/images/SpotTheError%20PICT5288.jpg
>> One sign would seem to say you can turn left from the center lane,
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Nah. They're all on the wrong side of the road. He must have printed the
> negative in reverse!

Not in Quebec.
Signature

Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

John McWilliams - 18 Jul 2007 01:24 GMT
>> http://www.aliasimages.com/images/SpotTheError%20PICT5288.jpg
> One sign would seem to say you can turn left from the center lane,
> another seems to say the center lane must go straight.

Quite right. And there are simply FAR too many signs, period.

One has it's bottom partly chopped off.

dunno, Alan, you tell us.

Signature

john mcwilliams

John McWilliams - 18 Jul 2007 01:25 GMT
>>> http://www.aliasimages.com/images/SpotTheError%20PICT5288.jpg
>> One sign would seem to say you can turn left from the center lane,
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> dunno, Alan, you tell us.

D'Oh on me. The scourge error of usenet. I knew I'd do it one day......

Signature

lsmft

Tom from WI - 18 Jul 2007 18:43 GMT
The car turning left has a bad tail light (it isn't blinking).
Tom

>> http://www.aliasimages.com/images/SpotTheError%20PICT5288.jpg
> One sign would seem to say you can turn left from the center lane,
> another seems to say the center lane must go straight.
>
> Scott
Jay B - 19 Jul 2007 05:38 GMT
> >http://www.aliasimages.com/images/SpotTheError%20PICT5288.jpg
>
> One sign would seem to say you can turn left from the center lane,
> another seems to say the center lane must go straight.
>
> Scott

The arrows painted on the road would appear to support you on this.

Nice catch.

Jay Beckman
Chandler, AZ
www.pbase.com/flyingphotog
ASAAR - 19 Jul 2007 06:32 GMT
>> One sign would seem to say you can turn left from the center lane,
>> another seems to say the center lane must go straight.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Nice catch.

 Possibly, but the signs might be correct if the forward one to the
left of all of the drivers that normally see it is only intended to
identify the leftmost lane (much turn left) and the middle lane
(must not turn).  This is in agreement with the arrows painted on
the road surface, and the sign is right at the intersection, and
probably for reasons of safety, doesn't display information about
the rightmost lanes.  You wouldn't want anyone driving in the left
lane very close to the sign, to see instructions about turning right
from the rightmost lane and deciding to suddenly make a rash
emergency maneuver to cross lanes and turn right.  :)

 The sign with the three arrows is set further back, so it could
identify all three lanes more safely.  The middle two headed arrow
may just indicate that drivers in the middle lane must continue
straight ahead, but that there's another road slightly further
ahead, just out of sight, where you can make a left turn.  If that
road does not exist, then the dual headed arrow should be the error,
and it should have just pointed straight ahead.

 Another question might be "Why does the red car have its
headlights turned on?" since the picture was take at 12:11 pm.
Running lights, ok.  But headlights?  I don't think that Alan would
approve of such non-green wastefulness.  Oh, I get it now.  It's not
green.  It's a *red* car.  <g>  BTW, did you see the 'hidden' bike?
David J Taylor - 19 Jul 2007 06:54 GMT
[]
>  Another question might be "Why does the red car have its
> headlights turned on?" since the picture was take at 12:11 pm.
> Running lights, ok.  But headlights?
[]

It's the law in much of Europe....

David
Floyd L. Davidson - 19 Jul 2007 07:23 GMT
>  Another question might be "Why does the red car have its
>headlights turned on?" since the picture was take at 12:11 pm.

Because *many* vehicles (as in all *safe* ones) will
have their headlights on if the engine is running, and
will only turn them off if the Parking Brake is applied.
And that might well be required by law in Canada (I seem
to recall from my foggy memory that it is, though that
might apply only to the Yukon Territory for all I know).

Note that the grey car also has its headlights on.  You
can only see one of them, and then not well, but the one
you can see is on.

>Running lights, ok.  But headlights?

Running lights?  Do you mean "Parking Lights"?  (Very
few cars have "running lights", which are on the sides
of the vehicle, while they virtually all have "parking
lights".)

It is of course against the law to operate a moving
vehicle when only the parking lights are on.  Granted
that almost nobody is aware of that, and we commonly see
violations virtually *every* day.

Little rules for safe driving:

 1) Never drive without turning on your headlights,
    because they maximize the visibility of your
    vehicle to other drivers.

 2) Never turn on only your parking lights unless your
    vehicle is stopped and out of gear with a parking
    brake of some kind applied.

>I don't think that Alan would
>approve of such non-green wastefulness.  Oh, I get it now.  It's not
>green.  It's a *red* car.  <g>  BTW, did you see the 'hidden' bike?

It's a well understood safety issue.  One that is much
more difficult to understand for people driving around
in the summer sun at noon in Southern Arizona than it is
for someone in Canada, never mind as far north as where
I live.

Signature

Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)              floyd@apaflo.com

ASAAR - 19 Jul 2007 08:40 GMT
>>  Another question might be "Why does the red car have its
>> headlights turned on?" since the picture was take at 12:11 pm.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> to recall from my foggy memory that it is, though that
> might apply only to the Yukon Territory for all I know).

 Keeping the headlights on at noontime in bright sunlight seems to
me quite wasteful of energy and I doubt that it increases safety by
very much if at all.  I forget the term for it, but quite a number
of years ago cars in the USA had a feature where the lights would
automatically come on as twilight approached, or if brightness was
suddenly reduced.

[later]  I looked it up and this was General Motors "Twilight
Sentinel".  I see that Ford has a similar feature called "AutoLamp".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight_Sentinel

> Note that the grey car also has its headlights on.  You
> can only see one of them, and then not well, but the one
> you can see is on.

 That's a tough call and I tend to disagree for two reasons.  One,
as you say, there's no evidence that the car's right headlight is
on, just the left one, and that one is questionable - it's not
especially bright.  The angle of the car doesn't appear to be
extreme enough to prevent seeing the right headlight if it was
turned on.  And two, a couple of weeks ago I pointed out to someone
riding with me, that another car (one of the few) appeared to have
its headlights on, also in the middle of a sunny day.  Upon getting
closer, and at a slightly different angle, we noticed that what
appeared to be a bright headlight was only a reflection of sunlight.
In Alan's photo, while it's hard to tell how bright the sun's light
is just by looking at the photo, it's bright enough to produce well
defined shadows.  Also, based on the EXIF data, the exposure used is
just a bit less that one stop below what the Sunny 16 rule would
call for on a bright, sunny day, or a fraction more than needed with
a slight overcast.  So it's certainly possible that what appears to
be a headlight (and one that's not especially bright, although the
angle could be responsible for that) is in fact just a reflection.

>> Running lights, ok.  But headlights?
>
> Running lights?  Do you mean "Parking Lights"?  (Very
> few cars have "running lights", which are on the sides
> of the vehicle, while they virtually all have "parking
> lights".)

 No, I meant "Running Lights".  Maybe you're thinking of cars from
the 30's to the 50's that had side mounted running lights.  Today's
Saturn is nothing like your father's DeSoto. :)

 Here's a quote taken from a website that has special applicability
for Canada.  As an advocacy website, I can't deny that there may be
some bias, but nothing obviously wrong stands out.  Maybe, as with
Alan's photo, someone can spot an error :

> Again, subsequent review of these favorable DRL studies indicated
> the high probability that factors, other than daytime headlight use,
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> headlights on, or don't have headlights period (pedestrians and bicyclists)
> and their net effect on accident reduction is zero or worse.

 http://www.motorists.org/drl/
Floyd L. Davidson - 19 Jul 2007 11:25 GMT
>>>  Another question might be "Why does the red car have its
>>> headlights turned on?" since the picture was take at 12:11 pm.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>> to recall from my foggy memory that it is, though that
>> might apply only to the Yukon Territory for all I know).

A quick search verified that Canada *requires*, not just
headlights to be on, but that vehicles from 1990 on must
be equipped to have the headlights on when moving.  In
addition, laws in several European countries require the
driver to use headlights in daytime driving.

>  Keeping the headlights on at noontime in bright sunlight seems to
>me quite wasteful of energy and I doubt that it increases safety by
>very much if at all.

Experts totally disagree with that statement.

Canada saw an 11% reduction in the first year their law required
daylight use of headlights.

 Arora, H.; Collard, D.; Robbins, G.; Welbourne, E.R.;
 and White, J.G. 1994. Effectiveness of daytime running
 lights in Canada. Report no. TP-12298. Ottawa,
 Ontario: Transport Canada.

A US study showed a 7% reduction in multiple-vehicle crashes
when equipped to have headlights always on.

 Stein, H. 1985. Fleet experience with daytime running
 lights in the United States. SAE Technical Paper
 Series 851239. Warrendale, PA: Society of Automotive
 Engineers.

A ten percent accident reduction was found in this study:

 Elvik, R. 1993. The effects on accidents of compulsory
 use of daytime running lights for cars in
 Norway. Accident Analysis and Prevention 25:383-98.

This study found a 7% reduction in accidents (including
a 37% reduction in left-turn accidents).

 Hansen, L.K. 1993. Daytime running lights in Denmark:
 evaluation of the safety effect. Copenhagen, Denmark:
 Danish Council of Road Safety Research.

This one found a 6% reduction (34% in left-turn accidents).

 Hansen, L.K. 1994. Daytime running lights: experience
 with compulsory use in Denmark. Lille, Denmark:
 Proceedings of the Fersi Conference.

This study found a 5% decline for two-vehicle crashes
and a 12% decline in fatal crashes with pedestrians and
bicyclists.

 Tessmer, J.M. 2004. An assessment of the
 crash-reducing effectiveness of passenger vehicle
 daytime running lamps (DRLs). Report no. DOT
 HS-809-760. Washington, DC: National Highway Traffic
 Safety Administration.

In the US this feature has been offered on vehicles
since 1995, and today is standard on all General Motors,
Lexus, Mercedes Benz, Saab, Subaru, Suzuki, Volkswagen,
and Volvo models.  It is also available on some
Chrysler, Honda and Toyota vehicles.

The science is fairly well known.

Vehicles of different colors appear to be different
distances from the viewer, for example.  It has
significant effects.  The bright headlights make the
vehicle more obvious and make distance judgments more
uniform.

You'll notice that (because virtually all states require
it???)  motorcycles are an example where headlights are
always on.  The number of lives saved on that alone is
significant.

>I forget the term for it, but quite a number
>of years ago cars in the USA had a feature where the lights would
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>  That's a tough call and I tend to disagree for two reasons.  One,

I don't think there is any question at all, for more
than two reasons.  One is that the picture is clearly
taken in Canada, where the law requires any car made
after December 1989 to have the headlights on when
moving.  That does pretty much end the discussion, but
since it is also plain as day in the photo that the one
headlight that can partially be seen from the front is
in fact quite brightly lit...

>as you say, there's no evidence that the car's right headlight is

There is no evidence that it isn't on either.  It's just
a case of we can't see it directly, so we don't know.

>on, just the left one, and that one is questionable - it's not
>especially bright.

It is just as bright as the headlight on the red car.

>The angle of the car doesn't appear to be
>extreme enough to prevent seeing the right headlight if it was
>turned on.

That is rather obviously false.  The mechanics of how
most headlights are mounted would shade the left side
(looking in the direction the headlight is beamed) much
more than the right side.  We can't really tell if that
is true or not with this vehicle though, but it appears
to be so.

>And two, a couple of weeks ago I pointed out to someone
>riding with me, that another car (one of the few) appeared to have
>its headlights on, also in the middle of a sunny day.  Upon getting
>closer, and at a slightly different angle, we noticed that what
>appeared to be a bright headlight was only a reflection of sunlight.

That is not a valid point either.  It often happens with
the lights mounted on the rear (stop lights etc), and is
also common with parking lights.  In both cases the
enclosure/bezel is designed to spread the light output
over a wide angle, which allows sunlight to come in at
one angle and exit at another.  But of course headlights
are *not* designed that way, so it is much less likely
even if it does happen.  But in this instance the
sunlight is coming from an angle to the right of the
camera and nearly directly overhead, which is not
something that could reflect back out of a head light
that is aimed in the opposite direction and shaded by
the hood of the vehicle from direct sunlight.

>In Alan's photo, while it's hard to tell how bright the sun's light
>is just by looking at the photo, it's bright enough to produce well
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>be a headlight (and one that's not especially bright, although the
>angle could be responsible for that) is in fact just a reflection.

That is also a valid point, even though you missed on
all of the reasons.  The EXIF data etc have virtually no
value.

Look at the shadow under the vehicles, particularly the
vehicle seen from the rear.  The sun is clearly almost
directly overhead, just barely (say about 1 oclock)
directly to right (the passenger side) in relation to
the orientation of that vehicle.

Which does mean it is possible that the bright light (it
is nearly blocking, with values only a couple less than
maximum) is a reflection off the hood or from chrome
near the light fixture.

Regardless, the vehicle is clearly one that is more
recent than 1990 manufacture, is in Canada, and
therefore almost certainly has its headlights turned on.

>>> Running lights, ok.  But headlights?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>the 30's to the 50's that had side mounted running lights.  Today's
>Saturn is nothing like your father's DeSoto. :)

Okay, what you said was "running lights", but what that
means in context is in fact "headlights".  The term DRL
refers to headlights...  (which makes your statement a
bit of nonsense in context, which is why I thought you
might mean parking lights where it would actually makes
sense).

>  Here's a quote taken from a website that has special applicability
>for Canada.  As an advocacy website, I can't deny that there may be
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>> (DRLs) and low and behold government studies find that DRLs may
>> be responsible for saving the human race from roadway annihilation.

You realize that "DRL" means the *headlights* are on.

>> Auto manufacturers, never loath to exploit a fad or pose for holy
>> pictures, climbed on the DRL bandwagon and hyped the safety
>> benefits of irritating other drivers by shining headlights in their eyes,
>> during daylight hours.

Now that is an interesting claim!  I cannot ever
remember being bothered by "other drivers by shining
headlights" in my eyes in daylight.  At night, yes, but
not in daylight.

(Heh heh, on the other hand, the first vehicle I ever
drove that was equipped with with a DRL resulted in
someone calling the cops on me!  It was a company
vehicle, and I had to wait for an airplane to arrive, so
I parked (at night), but couldn't figure out how to get
the darned lights to shut off and yet keep the engine
running to keep me warm.  A cop showed up, and told me
that people in the house that my lights were directed at
had called them.  I said, "I have no idea how to shut
them off.  He laughed, and said, "Put the parking brake
on."  (He was driving an identical GM vehicle...)

>>      General Motors has been most aggressive on
>> this front with their Saturn products winning the award for "most
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>> US market, GM decided to save a few bucks by just installing the
>> DRL equipped system on both the US and Canadian models.

That is an bit of an absurd claim.  Given the size of
the US market, a lighting system with $2 few parts would
be worth millions...

>> The first, last and only large scale U.S. study that has been completed
>> and published on the effects of DRLs as safety devices, was conducted
>> by the insurance industry supported Highway Loss Data Institute. The
>> results; vehicles equipped with DRLs were involved in more accidents
>> than similar vehicles without DRLs.

Another absurd claim.  See the cited studies above, two
of which were done in the US.  (And there have been
others.)

>> The difference was minimal. but
>> the meaning was strait forward, DRLs aggravate other motorists, obscure
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>  http://www.motorists.org/drl/

I can't much do more than laugh.  They sound a wee bit
prejudiced...   but you did find it on the Internet, so
it must be true, right?  ;-)

That "waste fuel" argument, as one example, is related
to wasting a fraction of a mile per gallon.  GM for
example estimates that it costs the average driver $3
per year.  Insignificant!

One of the things you will notice though is that
virtually all of the countries that have mandated
daytime headlight use are northern countries.  Canada,
Norway, Demark, Finland, Iceland, and Sweden are all
north of everywhere in the US except Alaska.  In fact
the one and apparently the only valid criticism of the
various studies is that they are all being done at
northern latitudes and may not be as valid at lower
latitudes such as in the contiguous United States.

Here is one list of studies:

 http://www.ibiblio.org/rdu/DRLs/studies.htm

Signature

Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)              floyd@apaflo.com

ASAAR - 19 Jul 2007 12:13 GMT
>>  That's a tough call and I tend to disagree for two reasons.  One,
>
> I don't think there is any question at all, for more
> than two reasons.

 Reason one.  You're Floyd.
 Reason two.  You're still Floyd.
 Reasons three, etc, etc, You're never wrong.  Sheesh, and I
thought you might have mellowed a bit.
Floyd L. Davidson - 19 Jul 2007 12:30 GMT
>>>  That's a tough call and I tend to disagree for two reasons.  One,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>  Reasons three, etc, etc, You're never wrong.  Sheesh, and I
>thought you might have mellowed a bit.

Kinda hard to argue with the fact that the picture was
taken in Canada where the law there mandates the
headlights on that car would be on...

So you can't engage in discussion because you have
little more to go on than your personal bias and cites
to conspiracy theories, with nothing but gratuitous
insults to support it.

You're right, nothing has changed.  Logic still wins in
my book, but not in yours.

Signature

Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)              floyd@apaflo.com

Alan Browne - 19 Jul 2007 13:22 GMT
>>>  That's a tough call and I tend to disagree for two reasons.  One,
>> I don't think there is any question at all, for more
>> than two reasons.
>
>   Reason one.  You're Floyd.
>   Reason two.  You're still Floyd.

Be that as it may, Floyd is right on this one.

Signature

-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
--        r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
--      [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
--                   e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.

ASAAR - 19 Jul 2007 13:54 GMT
>>>>  That's a tough call and I tend to disagree for two reasons.  One,
>>> I don't think there is any question at all, for more
>>> than two reasons.
>>
>>   Reason one.  You're Floyd.
>>   Reason two.  You're still Floyd.

>>> You're right, nothing has changed.  Logic still wins in
>>> my book, but not in yours.

> Be that as it may, Floyd is right on this one.

 And what I said has nothing to do with what Floyd (and evidently
you also) thinks.  It's not about being right vs. being wrong or
about logic or the lack of.  It's that Floyd remains the same and is
unable to change.  He's a thoroughly disagreeable, loathsome
creature that takes every opportunity to have a conversation and
finds a way to turn it into an argument.
Alan Browne - 19 Jul 2007 14:04 GMT
>>>>>  That's a tough call and I tend to disagree for two reasons.  One,
>>>> I don't think there is any question at all, for more
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> creature that takes every opportunity to have a conversation and
> finds a way to turn it into an argument.

Well I agree with that too, but the fundamentals of what he said are
bang on.  He also pulled data from several sources where you pulled data
from a single source that seemed to have an anti-DRL bias (from its
language).

Cheers,
Alan

Signature

-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
--        r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
--      [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
--                   e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.

ASAAR - 19 Jul 2007 14:39 GMT
> Well I agree with that too, but the fundamentals of what he said are
> bang on.  He also pulled data from several sources where you pulled data
> from a single source that seemed to have an anti-DRL bias (from its
> language).

 And if you notice, I indicated that the source was probably
biased, even though I'm not familiar with that particular issue.
Alan Browne - 19 Jul 2007 14:45 GMT
>> Well I agree with that too, but the fundamentals of what he said are
>> bang on.  He also pulled data from several sources where you pulled data
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>   And if you notice, I indicated that the source was probably
> biased, even though I'm not familiar with that particular issue.

I didn't notice, actually, but hooray.
Floyd L. Davidson - 19 Jul 2007 14:06 GMT
>>>>>  That's a tough call and I tend to disagree for two reasons.  One,
>>>> I don't think there is any question at all, for more
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>creature that takes every opportunity to have a conversation and
>finds a way to turn it into an argument.

Yeah, posting *facts* is just so unsocial.

Signature

Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)              floyd@apaflo.com

Floyd L. Davidson - 19 Jul 2007 14:07 GMT
>>>>>  That's a tough call and I tend to disagree for two reasons.  One,
>>>> I don't think there is any question at all, for more
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>creature that takes every opportunity to have a conversation and
>finds a way to turn it into an argument.

And your gratuitous insults are just *so* agreeable.

Signature

Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)              floyd@apaflo.com

Jeff - 19 Jul 2007 12:00 GMT
>>>  Another question might be "Why does the red car have its
>>> headlights turned on?" since the picture was take at 12:11 pm.
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> Sentinel".  I see that Ford has a similar feature called "AutoLamp".
>  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight_Sentinel

The current Kia Optimas have an "auto" position on the headlight switch
that does the same thing.  In either "on" or "auto", the lights turn off
with the ignition so you can't leave them on accidentally.


>> Note that the grey car also has its headlights on.  You
>> can only see one of them, and then not well, but the one
[quoted text clipped - 67 lines]
>
>   http://www.motorists.org/drl/

The signs do contradict each other.  Since the painted arrows and the sign
at the intersection match and it doesn't seem that the center lane has a
path to turn left, the sign in the foreground is wrong.
Alan Browne - 19 Jul 2007 13:21 GMT
>>>  Another question might be "Why does the red car have its
>>> headlights turned on?" since the picture was take at 12:11 pm.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> automatically come on as twilight approached, or if brightness was
> suddenly reduced.

Lights on, even at sunny noon, increases the likelihood that you are
seen.  This all began in Sweden with a study showing that if headlights
were left on the daytime highway (2 lane) collision rate went down.

In Canada since about 1991 all new cars come with DRL (Daytine Running
Lights) which typically use the headlights at less than full power.

Some use the front "parking" lights as DRL.

> [later]  I looked it up and this was General Motors "Twilight
> Sentinel".  I see that Ford has a similar feature called "AutoLamp".
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> on, just the left one, and that one is questionable - it's not
> especially bright.  The angle of the car doesn't appear to be

It is on.  Just the angle reduces the intensity.  IAC, all new cars
since about 1991 can't help but have them on (in Canada).

>> Auto manufacturers, never loath to exploit a fad or pose for holy
>> pictures, climbed on the DRL bandwagon and hyped the safety
>> benefits of irritating other drivers by shining headlights in their eyes,
>> during daylight hours. General Motors has been most aggressive on

Tripe of the worst kind.

1) Headlights in the daytime have much lower contrast than at night, so
it does not "shine" in anyone's eyes.

2) The DRL's are implemented at lower than full power.

>> this front with their Saturn products winning the award for "most
>> obnoxious cars to meet on the highway. " While seldom admitted,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>> US market, GM decided to save a few bucks by just installing the
>> DRL equipped system on both the US and Canadian models.

It is in most US models but not enabled in most US cars sold.  Some in
the US do have it enabled (or have had it enabled in some years of sale).

>> The first, last and only large scale U.S. study that has been completed
>> and published on the effects of DRLs as safety devices, was conducted
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>   http://www.motorists.org/drl/

Sounds like an "agenda" driven study to me.

Cheers,
Alan

Signature

-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
--        r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
--      [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
--                   e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.

Alan Browne - 29 Jul 2007 01:02 GMT
> models but not enabled in most US cars sold.  Some in
> the US do have it enabled (or have had it enabled in some years of sale).

minor correction...

Last week in the US I noticed many US plated cars that had DRL
(headlamps on dimly, red running lights off).  So I guess some Americans
are stuck with it whether they want it or not...

In NY state they have a couple relevant rules (per signs on the road):

- when entering a highway construction area, headlights must be turned on.

- when operating wipers, headlights must be on.

Something that really puzzled me was:

In some areas there would be a thin (2 in. wide) stripe running across
the road.  Then another about 30 yards further away.

What's *that* all about?  I couldn't make heads or tails of it.  This
occurred in many areas in PA and NY... in town, on the highways (not
Interstate).  No corresponding signage...

Cheers,
Alan.

Signature

-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
--        r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
--      [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
--                   e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.

ASAAR - 29 Jul 2007 01:29 GMT
> In some areas there would be a thin (2 in. wide) stripe running across
> the road.  Then another about 30 yards further away.
>
> What's *that* all about?  I couldn't make heads or tails of it.  This
> occurred in many areas in PA and NY... in town, on the highways (not
> Interstate).  No corresponding signage...

 I believe that those lines are used to detect speeders, and
they're not limited to NY and PA.  I recall them in Ohio back in the
late 1950's on roads east of Dayton.   The vehicles were probably
timed by observers in small airplanes in contact with patrol cars.
I don't recall any actually painted on roads in towns, although I
don't see any reason why it wouldn't work there too.
Alan Browne - 29 Jul 2007 19:43 GMT
>> In some areas there would be a thin (2 in. wide) stripe running across
>> the road.  Then another about 30 yards further away.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> I don't recall any actually painted on roads in towns, although I
> don't see any reason why it wouldn't work there too.

No, not _those_ lines, these were thin and a mere 30 yards apart and in
town streets and on some highways (I mean two lane highways).

Air speed traps are still in use in a lot of placed (including NY
state), but the references are larger and further apart (on the order of
a 1000' or more in order to get a lower error on the speed estimate).

Cheers,
Alan.

Signature

-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
--        r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
--      [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
--                   e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.

Frank ess - 30 Jul 2007 00:27 GMT
>>> In some areas there would be a thin (2 in. wide) stripe running
>>> across the road.  Then another about 30 yards further away.
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> of a 1000' or more in order to get a lower error on the speed
> estimate).

There were some places in rural Arizona where various paving and
striping options were tested. You might encounter a stretch of green
or red road. There were also sections with stripes painted across the
road, usually several a foot or two apart. I presume those were
different compositions being tested for wear.

Nowadays a lot of the freeway stripes are some kind of plastic that is
rolled out and glued down. That kind of thing has to be tested in
real-world conditions, I presume.

If it's something you're really interested in, and slothful-like-me,
you might write a letter to Matthew Alice at the
http://www.sdreader.com/ed/matthew/ . He answers some pretty arcane
questions.
Signature

Frank S
Recommending:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB117702894815776259.html
For your enjoyment and edification

Alan Browne - 30 Jul 2007 01:05 GMT
>>>> In some areas there would be a thin (2 in. wide) stripe running
>>>> across the road.  Then another about 30 yards further away.
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> usually several a foot or two apart. I presume those were different
> compositions being tested for wear.

These were not test stripes that I could tell.  (See them here a lot too).

> Nowadays a lot of the freeway stripes are some kind of plastic that is
> rolled out and glued down. That kind of thing has to be tested in
> real-world conditions, I presume.

Wouldn't work here ... snowplows...

Signature

-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
--        r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
--      [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
--                   e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.

Paul Furman - 30 Jul 2007 02:54 GMT
> There were some places in rural Arizona ...
> with stripes painted across the road,
> usually several a foot or two apart.

Faux cattle guards?
Frank ess - 30 Jul 2007 05:50 GMT
>> There were some places in rural Arizona ...
>> with stripes painted across the road,
>> usually several a foot or two apart.
>
> Faux cattle guards?

Good idea! I wonder if it would work.

I don't remember that any I saw were in places I'd expect to see
cattle guards. I always like to cross real cattle guards; something
about that d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-r-p massage.

Signature

Frank ess

Paul Furman - 30 Jul 2007 06:12 GMT
>>> There were some places in rural Arizona ...
>>> with stripes painted across the road,
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> guards. I always like to cross real cattle guards; something about that
> d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-r-p massage.

Painted cattle guards are pretty common and I guess they work. It's
obvious if a fence comes up to the highway with some stripes
'connecting' the broken fence.

Signature

Paul Furman Photography
http://edgehill.net
Bay Natives Nursery
http://www.baynatives.com

ASAAR - 29 Jul 2007 01:36 GMT
> In some areas there would be a thin (2 in. wide) stripe running across
> the road.  Then another about 30 yards further away.

 BTW, I could be mistaken (in my last post), as I don't recall the
lines being that close together.  The lines that I recall were
probably closer to 300 yards apart.  But perhaps those greater
distances were needed 50 years ago when more sophisticated
electronic equipment wasn't available, and calculations might have
been based on a wristwatch and a paper pad.  Back then there weren't
even four function Bowmar Brains, and it would be the rare patrolman
that had even heard of Curta "pepper mill" calculators.

 http://www.thocp.net/hardware/curta.html
Alan Browne - 19 Jul 2007 13:11 GMT
>>> One sign would seem to say you can turn left from the center lane,
>>> another seems to say the center lane must go straight.
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> road does not exist, then the dual headed arrow should be the error,
> and it should have just pointed straight ahead.

I don't pretend to understand what you wrote above... the near sign is
wrong ... or the city should add a parallel turning lane (better as I go
through that intersection every evening).

>   Another question might be "Why does the red car have its
> headlights turned on?" since the picture was take at 12:11 pm.
> Running lights, ok.  But headlights?  I don't think that Alan would

Those are running lights.  Headlights would be brighter.  The sacrifice
of a few watt hours is supposed to reduce accidents... accidents cause
more pollution than the use of the electricity...

Cheers,
Alan

Signature

-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
--        r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
--      [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
--                   e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.

ASAAR - 19 Jul 2007 14:32 GMT
>>   The sign with the three arrows is set further back, so it could
>> identify all three lanes more safely.  The middle two headed arrow
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> wrong ... or the city should add a parallel turning lane (better as I go
> through that intersection every evening).

 That's one of the options I mentioned.  If there is no left turn
slightly ahead, but not seen in the picture, then the middle (two
headed) arrow in the near sign is the error, and it should have only
pointed straight ahead, putting it in agreement with the sign
further ahead (just to the left of the car in the center of the
picture) which has only two arrows.  Of the two on that sign, the
one on the right refers to the middle lane, pointing straight ahead.
This also agrees with the arrows painted on the middle lane, which
as far as I can see, also only point straight ahead.

 The point that I made was that if it was possible to make a left
turn slightly further ahead, but not visible in the photo (and which
from what you said now appears not to be the case), then the forward
sign (with two arrows) would have had the error, not the near sign
with the three arrows.

>>   Another question might be "Why does the red car have its
>> headlights turned on?" since the picture was take at 12:11 pm.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> of a few watt hours is supposed to reduce accidents... accidents cause
> more pollution than the use of the electricity...

 Headlights would be brighter if they were aimed at the camera.
They're not, they're aimed straight ahead, pointing in the direction
the car is traveling, not to the driver's left, across three
oncoming lanes (from that driver's perspecive) and towards the
camera.  This isn't to say that they are or are not headlights. It's
just that I don't think it can be determined what type of light they
are just by how bright or dim the light appears in the picture.  In
any case, looking at the entire light assembly containing the
headlight, running light, parking light, whatever, there's not
enough detail to make out the individual components.  But it does
appear that the part that's illuminated is the large central part of
the assembly.  If so, wouldn't that be the headlight?  It might be
much clearer in your original, higher resolution photo, where the
illuminated component may not be as it appears in the smaller shot
you made available on the internet.

 BTW, did you spot the bike in the picture that I previously
mentioned?  And if you did, how many are there?  :)
Robert Coe - 21 Jul 2007 22:40 GMT
: >>   The sign with the three arrows is set further back, so it could
: >> identify all three lanes more safely.  The middle two headed arrow
[quoted text clipped - 50 lines]
:   BTW, did you spot the bike in the picture that I previously
: mentioned?  And if you did, how many are there?  :)

If there is one (and so far I haven't seen conclusive evidence - the "bike" in
the near weeds might be a grocery cart), it's probably Alan's. He's the one
who spotted the road sign error, and he just said that he goes through that
intersection daily. So it stands to reason that he's the one who took the
picture.

Bob
ASAAR - 21 Jul 2007 23:11 GMT
> If there is one (and so far I haven't seen conclusive evidence - the "bike" in
> the near weeds might be a grocery cart), it's probably Alan's. He's the one
> who spotted the road sign error, and he just said that he goes through that
> intersection daily. So it stands to reason that he's the one who took the
> picture.

 Nope, as I mentioned in the other sub-branch, the other bike is
not pointed in the direction of the waiting 'friends'.  Big clue
number two: It's not in the weeds.  It's actually on the road, only
a few milliseconds preventing it from being in plain sight!
Robert Coe - 22 Jul 2007 02:10 GMT
: > If there is one (and so far I haven't seen conclusive evidence - the "bike" in
: > the near weeds might be a grocery cart), it's probably Alan's. He's the one
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
: number two: It's not in the weeds.  It's actually on the road, only
: a few milliseconds preventing it from being in plain sight!

A few milliseconds if he runs the red light. But I'm still less than totally
convinced; I see the putative rider, I guess, but not the bike. From the
rider's position and what could be front lights, I suppose it might be a
motorcycle. But I'd expect to see more than I do. Do they allow Segways on the
streets in Québec?

Bob
ASAAR - 22 Jul 2007 03:51 GMT
> :   Nope, as I mentioned in the other sub-branch, the other bike is
> : not pointed in the direction of the waiting 'friends'.  Big clue
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> motorcycle. But I'd expect to see more than I do. Do they allow Segways on the
> streets in Québec?

 I can't answer that, but look at the rider's left leg, with the
knee bent as motorcyclists often do.  Cyclists sit, Segway riders
stand, and if the rider's right foot is to the right as far as the
left foot is to the left, the feet would be several feet apart.
I've only briefly seen Segways in pictures, and not recently, but I
don't recall them having platforms that are 3 to 4 feet across.
Maybe Alan will see more, as the 1/4mb version is too pixelized to
make out much detail.  But the little of the unobscured dark mass at
the bottom that we can see seems consistent with a motorcycle's
wheels. At first I thought the bright object to the cyclist's left
was a handlebar mounted rear view mirror, but it could also be a
reflection from a bright object on the edge of the road, several
meters behind the rider.  In any case as far as I'm concerned, what
makes this interesting is not that it's a motorcycle/cyclist.  It
could have been a Segway rider, a pedestrian or a clown on a pogo
stick, and discovering the partially obscured body after the fact is
what piqued my interest.  And had I not mentioned the bike, you
probably wouldn't have mentioned the two distant cyclists, and all
three might have escaped the notice of the others here that bothered
to look at Alan's shot.  They (and you) may disagree, but I found
these three 'extras' to be much more interesting than the sign's
error that was responsible for this thread.  :)
Billy@barrier.com - 26 Jul 2007 02:13 GMT
>>>   Another question might be "Why does the red car have its
>>> headlights turned on?" since the picture was take at 12:11 pm.
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>illuminated component may not be as it appears in the smaller shot
>you made available on the internet.

When the law came out to have running lights, I had to install a relay in my
company truck to turn the lights on with the ignition, since I drive a federally
regulated vehicle.

The 'running lights' used in some cars are actually the high-beams in the
headlights. Since the high beam filament is not used that much, and it isn't a
big loss if you don't have it, it makes sense to use it during the day. The
power is cut down though, possibly by connecting the 2 lamps in series.

The reason I say this is because I have had lots of Canadian cars, and when I
turn the headlamps "on" after dark, there is a change of pattern in the light on
the street, not just a brightness change. Also, since they brought out this law,
I have had to replace lots of headlamps because the high beam was burned out -
and I almost never drive at night with them on. Most of my night driving is in
the city with low beams. AND before 1990, burned out high beams were a rarity.
It's the opposite now.

There are a few cars on the roads with no lights in daytime, but they risk a
ticket or a crash up! Since we are used to looking for "2 lights" in our
rearview before making a lane change, we can't see cars with no running lights..
I've almost hit a few of these idiots!
ASAAR - 26 Jul 2007 03:42 GMT
> When the law came out to have running lights, I had to install a relay in my
> company truck to turn the lights on with the ignition, since I drive a federally
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> rearview before making a lane change, we can't see cars with no running
> lights.. I've almost hit a few of these idiots!

 Maybe Canadians should also hot wire their car horns, so cars with
burned out lights won't go unnoticed.  Then you could describe the
owners of cars that don't keep their horns constantly blaring as
another bunch of idiots.  :)
Pat - 26 Jul 2007 15:25 GMT
> > When the law came out to have running lights, I had to install a relay in my
> > company truck to turn the lights on with the ignition, since I drive a federally
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> owners of cars that don't keep their horns constantly blaring as
> another bunch of idiots.  :)

My motorcycle has a dash lamp that comes on to tell me if my headlight
is burned out.  If you can do that on a 20 year old motorcycle, you
should be able to do it on a modern car.
DoN. Nichols - 27 Jul 2007 00:13 GMT
According to Pat  <groups@artisticphotography.us>:

> My motorcycle has a dash lamp that comes on to tell me if my headlight
> is burned out.  If you can do that on a 20 year old motorcycle, you
> should be able to do it on a modern car.

    O.K.  Now -- does it have another dash lamp to warn you that the
first one is also burned out? :-)

    Enjoy,
        DoN.

Signature

Email:   <dnichols@d-and-d.com>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
    (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
          --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

ASAAR - 27 Jul 2007 00:28 GMT
>> My motorcycle has a dash lamp that comes on to tell me if my headlight
>> is burned out.  If you can do that on a 20 year old motorcycle, you
>> should be able to do it on a modern car.
>
>     O.K.  Now -- does it have another dash lamp to warn you that the
> first one is also burned out? :-)

 No.  For that it uses the fender mounted klaxon.  And if the
klaxon fails, it locks the brakes.

 Ooops, sorry.  If the klaxon fails, it pulses the brakes.  The
brakes only lock if the GPS unit is broken or deactivated.  :)
Jürgen Exner - 26 Jul 2007 05:57 GMT
> There are a few cars on the roads with no lights in daytime, but they
> risk a ticket or a crash up! Since we are used to looking for "2
> lights" in our rearview before making a lane change, we can't see
> cars with no running lights.. I've almost hit a few of these idiots!

Hmmmm, how do you call people driving with _one_ running light?
Half idiots or motorcyclists?

jue
Billy@barrier.com - 27 Jul 2007 00:02 GMT
>> There are a few cars on the roads with no lights in daytime, but they
>> risk a ticket or a crash up! Since we are used to looking for "2
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>jue

Some of you people think that people who drive invisible cars, illegally,
risking death under my truck, aren't idiots?

You must be among them... I hope you get smeared on some highway, roadkill.
Frank ess - 27 Jul 2007 03:54 GMT
>>> There are a few cars on the roads with no lights in daytime, but
>>> they risk a ticket or a crash up! Since we are used to looking for
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> You must be among them... I hope you get smeared on some highway,
> roadkill.

'My experience as a practitioner in the fields of mental health and
treatment of deviants tells me that people who use the phrase "you
people" are either inadequate personalities or have projection and
reaction formation as a principal component of their "adjustment" to
life', he said, begging the question.

No real hope of prying open their little minds, either.

Signature

Frank S

"Never give a sucker an even break, or smarten-up a chump."
-William Claude Dukenfeld

Billy@barrier.com - 28 Jul 2007 02:59 GMT
>>>> There are a few cars on the roads with no lights in daytime, but
>>>> they risk a ticket or a crash up! Since we are used to looking for
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
>'My experience as a practitioner in the fields of mental health

How many times did you f.ck your mother, Freud?

Was it hadt to drag your uncle off of her?

Or was it just the dog?

<PLONK>
Robert Coe - 21 Jul 2007 13:08 GMT
:   Another question might be "Why does the red car have its
: headlights turned on?" since the picture was take at 12:11 pm.
: Running lights, ok.  But headlights?  I don't think that Alan would
: approve of such non-green wastefulness.  Oh, I get it now.  It's not
: green.  It's a *red* car.  <g>  BTW, did you see the 'hidden' bike?

It probably belongs to the photographer. Note that his two friends are waiting
for him up the road.
ASAAR - 21 Jul 2007 21:54 GMT
> :   Another question might be "Why does the red car have its
> : headlights turned on?" since the picture was take at 12:11 pm.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> It probably belongs to the photographer. Note that his two friends are waiting
> for him up the road.

 That's possible.  Odd, though, that I didn't notice them until
quite a while after spotting the closer bike.  Hint: It's not
pointed in the same direction as the 'friends' are facing, and
explains why I originally said "bike" instead of "bikes".  :)
Floyd L. Davidson - 19 Jul 2007 06:59 GMT
>> >http://www.aliasimages.com/images/SpotTheError%20PICT5288.jpg
>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Nice catch.

Of all the supposed "errors" listed, that is the *only*
one that actually _appears_ to be valid, though it too
is probably not actually an "error".

There is no sign without a bottom, the image is
absolutely not printed in reverse, etc. etc.  But those
two signs do _appear_ to be contradictory.  They might
be too!

It more probable that the sign on the vertical post is
supposed to be for traffic coming from the roadway on
the right side of the picture (two lanes of traffic).
The sign might have been twisted a bit to appear as if
it is looking towards the oncoming traffic from the
bottom of the photo (with three lanes), or it might just
be a perspective error that make it look to be facing
that traffic instead of the other roadway.

Signature

Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)              floyd@apaflo.com

David J Taylor - 19 Jul 2007 07:22 GMT
[]
> The image is absolutely not printed in reverse, etc. etc.
[]

That was a joke - sorry you didn't get it.

David
Floyd L. Davidson - 19 Jul 2007 07:48 GMT
>[]
>> The image is absolutely not printed in reverse, etc. etc.
>[]
>
>That was a joke - sorry you didn't get it.

The cut off sign was a joke too.  So was the article
with the URL to the picture.

Sorry you didn't get it.

Signature

Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)              floyd@apaflo.com

Alan Browne - 19 Jul 2007 13:27 GMT
>>>> http://www.aliasimages.com/images/SpotTheError%20PICT5288.jpg
>>> One sign would seem to say you can turn left from the center lane,
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> be a perspective error that make it look to be facing
> that traffic instead of the other roadway.

It's simply (the first sign) in error.  I've sent the photos to both the
city and to the local provincial highway dept.  (Not sure which is resp.
for those signs).  The city replied right away.  The provincial dept.
has not.

At the point of the first sign, there is only one lane traveling in that
direction.  It subsequently splits into center and left and right
turning lanes.

If the intersection allowed a two lane turn, then there would be a
guidance arc painted on the asphalt.  There is not.  The intersection
certainly is large enough to allow a two lane turn.

Signature

-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
--        r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
--      [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
--                   e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.

Floyd L. Davidson - 19 Jul 2007 13:56 GMT
>>>>> http://www.aliasimages.com/images/SpotTheError%20PICT5288.jpg
>>>> One sign would seem to say you can turn left from the center lane,
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
>It's simply (the first sign) in error.  I've sent the

You are right.

I was thinking the road had a left turn arrow painted on
it too, but when I looked again it does not.

>photos to both the city and to the local provincial
>highway dept.  (Not sure which is resp. for those
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>is not.  The intersection certainly is large enough to
>allow a two lane turn.

Signature

Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)              floyd@apaflo.com

John McWilliams - 19 Jul 2007 17:20 GMT
> It's simply (the first sign) in error.  I've sent the photos to both the
> city and to the local provincial highway dept.  (Not sure which is resp.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> guidance arc painted on the asphalt.  There is not.  The intersection
> certainly is large enough to allow a two lane turn.

A piece of white tape applied over the misplaced arrow would do it. If
the gendarmerie were to spot you and question you in this 30 second
citizen action, you could mention that you were considering suing the
(appropriate authority), that etc. etc.

Were Scott and I the only ones to catch this without adding several
hundred words?

Signature

john mcwilliams

Robert Coe - 22 Jul 2007 02:16 GMT
: >> >http://www.aliasimages.com/images/SpotTheError%20PICT5288.jpg
: >>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
: be a perspective error that make it look to be facing
: that traffic instead of the other roadway.

The fatal flaw in that explanation is that that's the sign that's consistent
with the painted arrows on the street. It's the sign on the nearer pole that's
inconsistent, and it couldn't possibly be meant for the intersecting street.

Bob
Spam THis - 17 Jul 2007 23:59 GMT
> http://www.aliasimages.com/images/SpotTheError%20PICT5288.jpg

It's Quebec, where all traffic signs are merely suggestions!!!
jean - 18 Jul 2007 03:17 GMT
The light is red, as it always is at that location.  Laval has the longest
red lights in the world.

Jean

> http://www.aliasimages.com/images/SpotTheError%20PICT5288.jpg
Alan Browne - 18 Jul 2007 13:06 GMT
> The light is red, as it always is at that location.  Laval has the longest
> red lights in the world.

Hardly an error, but you're right.  And they're not synchronized either.

Signature

-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
--        r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
--      [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
--                   e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.

Alan LeHun - 18 Jul 2007 11:56 GMT
> http://www.aliasimages.com/images/SpotTheError%20PICT5288.jpg

There's a worm on the right hand side that's lost his bazooka. "'Oy,
nutta!".

I take it you were trying to photograph the motorbike? Does the 7D have
a slow shutter?

Signature

Alan LeHun

Tom from WI - 19 Jul 2007 05:50 GMT
I'm guessing that you got a ticket for turning left from the center lane and
now you are using us to try to convince your wife that it wasn't your fault.
Tom

> http://www.aliasimages.com/images/SpotTheError%20PICT5288.jpg
per - 19 Jul 2007 14:11 GMT
Also, the red car does not seem to have a licence plate up front.
Alan Browne - 19 Jul 2007 14:24 GMT
> Also, the red car does not seem to have a licence plate up front.

Not issued in Quebec.  Some US states also don't issue a front plate.

Signature

-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
--        r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
--      [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
--                   e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.

John McWilliams - 19 Jul 2007 17:21 GMT
>> Also, the red car does not seem to have a licence plate up front.
>
> Not issued in Quebec.  Some US states also don't issue a front plate.

And some that do don't care if you don't display it.

Signature

john mcwilliams

Robert Coe - 21 Jul 2007 22:32 GMT
: >> Also, the red car does not seem to have a licence plate up front.
: >
: > Not issued in Quebec.  Some US states also don't issue a front plate.
:
: And some that do don't care if you don't display it.

Massachusetts stopped issuing front plates for several years, then started
issuing them again. So the green and white plates, some of which are still
around, don't have them. I believe the rule here is that you aren't required
to have a front plate; but if one was issued to you, you're required to
display it.

Bob
Pat - 19 Jul 2007 18:30 GMT
On Jul 17, 4:27 pm, Alan Browne <alan.bro...@FreelunchVideotron.ca>
wrote:
> http://www.aliasimages.com/images/SpotTheError%20PICT5288.jpg

Gee, before reading all of the other posts, I thought the error was
something completely different.  I thought that the error was that the
"incorrect" sign was facing the camera, not to road, almost like it
was grabbed from a gov't website or something and photoshopped into
the picture without taking parallax into account.
Celcius - 19 Jul 2007 19:25 GMT
> On Jul 17, 4:27 pm, Alan Browne <alan.bro...@FreelunchVideotron.ca>
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> was grabbed from a gov't website or something and photoshopped into
> the picture without taking parallax into account.

Nah, Pat!
I went by just last night to find out the municipality had repaired the
error. It's now very clear:
http://celestart.com/images/publiques/error-repaired.jpg
Take care,
Marcel
JoeT - 20 Jul 2007 00:21 GMT
>> On Jul 17, 4:27 pm, Alan Browne <alan.bro...@FreelunchVideotron.ca>
>> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Take care,
> Marcel

Redundancy is always the safest approach but when did they invent hovering
signs? lol

joe
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2008 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.