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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / May 2007Professional chimper
http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/races07/giro07/giro07st09-time.jpg  SignatureTicketbastard tax tracker: http://ticketmastersucks.org/tracker.html Dethink to survive - Mclusky > http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/races07/giro07/giro07st09-time.jpg > > -- > Ticketbastard tax tracker:http://ticketmastersucks.org/tracker.html > > Dethink to survive - Mclusky Better than 1000 cellphone camera users doing their "Hitler" salute. >> http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/races07/giro07/giro07st09-time.jpg > > Better than 1000 cellphone camera users doing their "Hitler" salute. That is for DAMN SURE. Concerts are really starting to suck with all the hands in the air for way too much time doing nothing but taking crappy cellphone pictures. These same people sit on their hands when the performer tries to get them to clap. Greg SignatureTicketbastard tax tracker: http://ticketmastersucks.org/tracker.html Dethink to survive - Mclusky > >>http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/races07/giro07/giro07st09-time.jpg > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Greg Quality doesn't matter. This is the same group who think youtube submissions are high art. > http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/races07/giro07/giro07st09-time.jpg Yep, and wouldn't you know it? He's a Canon shooter! No surprise since Nikon shooters don't need to chimp since they are sure of their shots. Rita >> http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/races07/giro07/giro07st09-time.jpg > > Yep, and wouldn't you know it? He's a Canon shooter! No surprise since > Nikon shooters don't need to chimp since they are sure of their shots. No, actually I know Bill. He's transitioning to Canon because he's tired of crappy Nikon lenses. He's currently got his fantastic L glass mounted to his Nikon bodies. Greg SignatureThe ticketbastard Tax Tracker: http://www.ticketmastersucks.org/tracker.html Dethink to survive - Mclusky >> Yep, and wouldn't you know it? He's a Canon shooter! No surprise >> since Nikon shooters don't need to chimp since they are sure of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > tired of crappy Nikon lenses. He's currently got his fantastic L > glass mounted to his Nikon bodies. LOL! No, us Nikon shooters use DX consumer zoom lenses to emulate Canon's optical quality. Rita >> http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/races07/giro07/giro07st09-time.jpg > > Yep, and wouldn't you know it? He's a Canon shooter! No surprise since > Nikon shooters don't need to chimp since they are sure of their shots. Rita, Stop being so childish. Your statement is akin to "I can pee farther than you" ;-) Both Nikon and Canon make good cameras and lenses and there are many photographers out there who do wonders with either these companies. If you have anything to contribute, please do. Otherwise follow the rule that silence is golden. Take care, Marcel >> Yep, and wouldn't you know it? He's a Canon shooter! No surprise >> since Nikon shooters don't need to chimp since they are sure of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > If you have anything to contribute, please do. Otherwise follow the > rule that silence is golden. Jeez! Lighten up it was said in jest. I use both Nikon and Canon equipment and find good and bad with both lines. Rita >>> Yep, and wouldn't you know it? He's a Canon shooter! No surprise >>> since Nikon shooters don't need to chimp since they are sure of [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > equipment > and find good and bad with both lines. Rita Sorry Rita. I owe you a sincere apology. Best regards, Marcel > Rita, > Stop being so childish. Your statement is akin to "I can pee farther than > you" ;-) Considering some of the accusations made about her, that would be quite an impressive feat! > If you have anything to contribute, please do. Otherwise follow the rule > that silence is golden. I could contribute a bit more here, but I'm currently overdrawn at the pun bank . . . <g> >> Rita, >> Stop being so childish. Your statement is akin to "I can pee farther than >> you" ;-) > > Considering some of the accusations made about her, that would be > quite an impressive feat! Rita is a guy. Greg SignatureThe ticketbastard Tax Tracker: http://www.ticketmastersucks.org/tracker.html Dethink to survive - Mclusky >>> Rita, >>> Stop being so childish. Your statement is akin to "I can pee farther than [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Rita is a guy. <cough> Uh, you're just repeating the accusations. :) Whether Rita be Rita or Rita be Rich, Testosterone helps, to pee over a ditch. If Rita be Rita, it would be quite a feat, To get good distance and not pee on her feet. > Whether Rita be Rita or Rita be Rich, > Testosterone helps, to pee over a ditch. > If Rita be Rita, it would be quite a feat, > To get good distance and not pee on her feet. It's no problem at all. You just don't want to be downwind of me when I'm squatting in front of a leaf blower at full throttle. Rita >>>> Rita, >>>> Stop being so childish. Your statement is akin to "I can pee farther [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > <cough> Uh, you're just repeating the accusations. :) Hardly accusations. One of these days I'll release my evidence. Greg SignatureTicketbastard tax tracker: http://ticketmastersucks.org/tracker.html Dethink to survive - Mclusky >> <cough> Uh, you're just repeating the accusations. :) > > Hardly accusations. One of these days I'll release my evidence. Whatever you do, don't release it into the wind. :) > Dethink to survive - Mclusky "We knew that!" - Devo >> <cough> Uh, you're just repeating the accusations. :) > > Hardly accusations. One of these days I'll release my evidence. Why wait? If you had any "evidence" you'd be spilling the beans. Rita >>> <cough> Uh, you're just repeating the accusations. :) >> >> Hardly accusations. One of these days I'll release my evidence. > > Why wait? If you had any "evidence" you'd be spilling the beans. I have a lead on a piece of evidence that will be the coup de grâce. Stay tuned! G Signature"What have you got in that paper bag? Is it a dose of Vitamin C? Ain't got no time for Western medicine I am Damo Suzuki" - Mark E Smith >>> Hardly accusations. One of these days I'll release my evidence. >> >> Why wait? If you had any "evidence" you'd be spilling the beans. > > I have a lead on a piece of evidence that will be the coup de grâce. Stay > tuned! LOL! I can't wait. I only hope it is good enough to make us all laugh. Rita >>> http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/races07/giro07/giro07st09-time.jpg >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Stop being so childish. Your statement is akin to "I can pee farther than >you" ;-) >Marcel Keep in mind Rita can hit a urinal from five feet away so she probably can pee farther than you. Ben ---------------------------------- If it wasn't for our environment, where would we live? > http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/races07/giro07/giro07st09-time.jpg Bet he gets paid more than you. SignatureWaddling Eagle World Famous Flight Instructor >> http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/races07/giro07/giro07st09-time.jpg > > Bet he gets paid more than you. Only if you're talking about his photography. Greg SignatureThe ticketbastard Tax Tracker: http://www.ticketmastersucks.org/tracker.html Dethink to survive - Mclusky >>> http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/races07/giro07/giro07st09-time.jpg >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Greg True. :-) SignatureWaddling Eagle World Famous Flight Instructor Where's the evidence that he's chimping? Have you never used a camera's menu system? SignatureJoan http://www.flickr.com/photos/joan-in-manly http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/races07/giro07/giro07st09-time.jpg > Where's the evidence that he's chimping? The photo at the linked site. The photog is looking at the back of the camera. > Have you never used a camera's menu system? Never. It displays the latest image continuously. That's why I carry 5 battery packs in my pocket. <snotty grin> Signature:) JR > Where's the evidence that he's chimping? Have you never used a > camera's menu system? Have you got a clue yet? Have you figured out that computer thingy sitting in front of you? Clearly not. Greg SignatureThe ticketbastard Tax Tracker: http://www.ticketmastersucks.org/tracker.html Dethink to survive - Mclusky >> Where's the evidence that he's chimping? Have you never used a camera's >> menu system? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Greg To beat Joan at lateral thinking, you have to expose your femine side. Some can, some can't. Douglas > http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/races07/giro07/giro07st09-time.jpg I was at a trade show a few weeks ago and the hapless owner or exec of a small company decided to have some "booth" shots made by a pro. The pro shows up bringing a shoot thru with a flash and power pack on it and a remote xmitr in the flash shoe.. He takes a few test shots making adjustments. Then he re-poses the poor booth owner a few times. Every shot he chimped for about 30 poses (where the subject hardly moved). Then, to have some real fun he started bracketing. (I'll assume aperture bracketing, but possibly flash power bracketing). So reset, bang-bang-bang, chimp, new angle, bang-bang-bang, chimp, new angle, bang-bang-bang.... if he took less than 100 shots I'd be surprised. Could have been done with much less fuss and far fewer shots. Cheers, Alan Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. > http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/races07/giro07/giro07st09-time.jpg Another ridiculous remark about "chimping". The little lcd screen is a tool for us to use--it's one of the greatest advantages of digital, yet when faux professionals see someone using it, they cry "chimping!" You go ahead and cover yours with tape, I'll keep using mine inspite of all the childish peer pressure to do otherwise. -- www.mattclara.com >> http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/races07/giro07/giro07st09-time.jpg > > Another ridiculous remark about "chimping". Jeez, lighten up. It's a joke. I believe in using all tools available. And, remember, it was a group of truly professional photographers, not faux professionals, who took the time to create funny videos about chimping. I still don't know how the above photographer is getting shots of the finish of stage 9 of the Giro while he's looking at his LCD. Greg SignatureThe ticketbastard Tax Tracker: http://www.ticketmastersucks.org/tracker.html Dethink to survive - Mclusky >> Another ridiculous remark about "chimping". > > Jeez, lighten up. It's a joke. I believe in using all tools > available. LOL! I think you plucked one of Matt's nerves. Me think Matt's a professional chimper. Rita >> http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/races07/giro07/giro07st09-time.jpg > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > -- > www.mattclara.com Curious how, when someone posts an imperfect shot - be it amusing or having some other quality which makes such an imperfect shot still a "good" picture, the pundits are the first to announce the value/use/importance of using/reading keeping to the right or whatever flavour of the moment suits - a histogram. What I'd like to know is: If reading the histo is so important, why is chimping such a degraded and ridiculed practice by the very people who place so much importance on it? Douglas www.ryadia.com > Curious how, when someone posts an imperfect shot - be it amusing or > having some other quality which makes such an imperfect shot still a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > and ridiculed practice by the very people who place so much > importance on it? You know we have more than just a few hypocrites in here that like to make noise, Doug. Like I said, "Matt is a professional chimper" and there really isn't anything wrong with that. It's these "closet chimpers" you have to be very careful of. You know, the ones that have both eyes glued to the screen and condemn everyone else that chimps. I say we have an annual "No Chimping Day" to raise awareness of compulsive chimping. Rita > http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/races07/giro07/giro07st09-time.jpg It would be interesting to find out how many of these anti-chimping advocates belong to Nikon camp and like boasting about the allegedly superior image quality on the LCD of their D200 (compared to, say, 5D), when it is used as a tool for reviewing images :) > It would be interesting to find out how many of these anti-chimping > advocates belong to Nikon camp and like boasting about the allegedly > superior image quality on the LCD of their D200 (compared to, say, 5D), > when it is used as a tool for reviewing images :) Is this knee-jerk anti-Nikon Canonista fodder? Where have you heard that Nikon's D200 has a superior LCD? Checking current Canon and Nikon DSLRs, the displays are comparable. The D200, 5D, D80, D40, 30D, and 400D all have 2.5"/230k pixel LCDs. You have to go back to the discontinued 350D and D50 to find lower IQ LCDs, 1.8"/115k pixels for the 350 D and 2.0"/130k pixels for the D50. Despite the difference between these two, I never heard anyone say that the D50 made a better chimper's choice than the 350D. :) >> It would be interesting to find out how many of these anti-chimping >> advocates belong to Nikon camp and like boasting about the allegedly [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Despite the difference between these two, I never heard anyone say > that the D50 made a better chimper's choice than the 350D. :) http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/dslr-comparison/lcds-2006/index.htm >>> It would be interesting to find out how many of these anti-chimping >>> advocates belong to Nikon camp and like boasting about the allegedly [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/dslr-comparison/lcds-2006/index.htm I hope that Andrey didn't base his LCD image quality assertion on Ken's LCD comparison web page. It fails for several reasons. First, image quality depends on several factors, and this page really only deals with one of the lesser ones, color accuracy. The eyes can adapt to an off color cast, but they can't compensate nearly as well for missing resolution or small LCD screen sizes. Second, some of the listed Canon LCDs had better color accuracy than several of the Nikon LCDs, so generalization isn't possible. Rockwell emphasizes that the white point (Delta uv) is the important factor, and that's what makes the D200 and D80 stand out. But the Canon 5D isn't mentioned anywhere on that web page, so how are we to accept that the 5D's color isn't as accurate as the D200? Dpreview has this to say about it : > The EOS 5D features a large 2.5" LCD monitor which thankfully > has good resolution (230,000 pixels), this makes for detailed image [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > isn't as bright as I would have liked, you will find yourself turning up > the brightness setting, and there's no anti-reflective coating. No mention of a color cast problem. Perhaps the D200 has a brighter LCD display than the D200, but one wouldn't know from the table since, again, some Canon displays are brighter than the D200's, and the 5D wasn't listed. Even if it is brighter than the 5D's display, again, most people wouldn't consider that to be anything but a minor component of what contributes to image quality. Dpreview's Conclusions page says: > Huge LCD monitor with great resolution, dimmer than some smaller screens but this is borne out in Rockwell's tables, where Canon's small P&S cameras (and a Casio) have brighter LCDs than Nikon's and Canon's DSLR displays, so a bright 5D LCD shouldn't be expected. For the last point, Canon's A70 did very well in Rockwell's comparisons where it was nearly the equal of the D200 in color accuracy. But would anyone seriously think that its 1.5" 78,000 pixel display offers higher image quality than the 5D's display, or that its IQ is nearly as good as the D200's display? I don't think so. If we are to be convinced that the 5D's display really provides an image quality noticeably worse than the D200, Andrey or someone else will have to explain . . . >> http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/races07/giro07/giro07st09-time.jpg > > It would be interesting to find out how many of these anti-chimping advocates > belong to Nikon camp and like boasting about the allegedly superior image > quality on the LCD of their D200 (compared to, say, 5D), when it is used as a > tool for reviewing images :) I belong to the Nikon camp, but I am not anti-chimping. Personally, I think the anti-chimping posters are idiots. SignatureWaddling Eagle World Famous Flight Instructor >>> http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/races07/giro07/giro07st09-time.jpg >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I belong to the Nikon camp, but I am not anti-chimping. Personally, I > think the anti-chimping posters are idiots. Depends on how one defines it! Now, you and I and other sensible folk make good use of the LCD display. Checking it as needed, not habitually, not excessively. It's intelligent use of a fine tool. We may even have a grasp of the histogram. OTOH, the chimpers tend to cluster, making oooh-ooh sounds, pointing and gesticulating at the screen and each other, or walking down the sidelines with head down peering at the little screen, and tripping over the ball boy. Signaturejohn mcwilliams >>>> http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/races07/giro07/giro07st09-time.jpg >>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > sidelines with head down peering at the little screen, and tripping > over the ball boy. I have no problem with people making oo-oo sounds and pointing and gesticulating. It is part of the fun of digital cameras. It is a great icebreaker when traveling. It also can help the subject to relax when doing portraiture. As for tripping over the ball boy, it is no different than the idiot who wanders down the sidelines with the camera glued to his eye, not watching where he is going. Ball boys were made to be tripped over. SignatureWaddling Eagle World Famous Flight Instructor >>> http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/races07/giro07/giro07st09-time.jpg >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I belong to the Nikon camp, but I am not anti-chimping. Personally, I > think the anti-chimping posters are idiots. In the true chimping sense, chimpers are idiots. Use the display and the histo to work out any exposure or even composition errors, that's fine, but reviewing every shot in the field is excessive. http://www.aliasimages.com/images/WhiteGlovesOnOrangeClothSML.jpg In taking the shot above I used the histogram. And yet it failed me. How? Cheers, Alan. Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. >>>> http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/races07/giro07/giro07st09-time.jpg >>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Cheers, > Alan. Well, looking at your image in Photoshop, the luminance histogram shows clipping at both ends, a spike at the 255 end and an abrupt stop at the 0 end. So, the subject brightness range apparently was beyond the camera's capability, but of course the 255 spike is the white light filtering between the cloth mesh, which probably pushed the exposure towards the dark end. There's no easy answer to this, one end or the other would have to be sacrificed, and the proper course would have been to bracket the shot at about 2-stop intervals. Colin D. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > So, the subject brightness range apparently was beyond the camera's > capability, but of course the 255 spike is the white light filtering [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > sacrificed, and the proper course would have been to bracket the shot at > about 2-stop intervals. I'd think that there's no detail to be had in the white light filtering through anyway, being just light, unless it's coming from an incandescent bulb and there's a bit of an etched logo that you want to see, but which was probably blown out anyway. :) So boost it to retrieve more from the low end, and with luck there won't be anymore blown out bits adding to what's already blown out. Just eyeballing it with Irfanview though (no histogram), I didn't see anything representing overexposure, so I would have tried boosting it to a higher equivalent ISO anyway. What kind of film was used? I can only make out "Kodak". Maybe "Kodak /something/ 1000"? It sure doesn't look like a negative. Color? B&W? IR? >> So, the subject brightness range apparently was beyond the camera's >> capability, but of course the 255 spike is the white light filtering [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > I can only make out "Kodak". Maybe "Kodak /something/ 1000"? It > sure doesn't look like a negative. Color? B&W? IR? On another thread I think, Alan said he used his 7D, that's a digital Minolta, and reference to the histogram while taking the shot confirms that. No film. Colin D. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >> . . . What kind of film was used? I can only make out "Kodak". >> Maybe "Kodak /something/ 1000"? It sure doesn't look like a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Minolta, and reference to the histogram while taking the shot confirms > that. No film. I know it's a 7D - I downloaded the image and peeked at the EXIF. I was referring not to what he used to take the white/orange picture but to the film strip in the picture, where "Kodak" along the edge is fairly clear, but not all of the characters that follow. The exposure wasn't so bad that the film was buried in the shadows. :) >>So, the subject brightness range apparently was beyond the camera's >>capability, but of course the 255 spike is the white light filtering [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > it to retrieve more from the low end, and with luck there won't be > anymore blown out bits adding to what's already blown out. Just Deliberate backlit shots of translucent objects are usually done with the subject at 2 stops more exposure than the spot metered backlight. That is to say, spot meter the backlight and open up two stops. But if the material is not translucent, then more exposure is needed to get the material color. Where the white shows through, it will really blow out. The other problems with the orange cloth is that it is thick so the holes align perpendicular to the surface, so the center of the image (lens axis) gets more of the table light. The center of the light table is brighter, too. This all adds up to a huge D range. > eyeballing it with Irfanview though (no histogram), I didn't see > anything representing overexposure, so I would have tried boosting > it to a higher equivalent ISO anyway. What kind of film was used? > I can only make out "Kodak". Maybe "Kodak /something/ 1000"? It > sure doesn't look like a negative. Color? B&W? IR? The photo is from a digital camera (Maxxum 7D). The film on the light table is Kodak E100VS 120. Cheers, Alan Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. >>>>> http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/races07/giro07/giro07st09-time.jpg >>>> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > clipping at both ends, a spike at the 255 end and an abrupt stop at the > 0 end. That's it. No surprise, except that the in-camera histo was fine as exposed ... to boot, on RAW import I had to "underexpose" it by another stop ... and at that, the red channel remained over. And that is the point. On the first generation DSLR's the in camera histo shows only one channel (blue or green, I believe). More recent DSLR's (high end IAC) show each channel in the histo. > So, the subject brightness range apparently was beyond the camera's > capability, but of course the 255 spike is the white light filtering [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > sacrificed, and the proper course would have been to bracket the shot at > about 2-stop intervals. Yes, if shot on a tripod (as it was) and then bracketted across 3 shots, then layered in PS and re-merged. IAC it was just a whimsy shot as I sat here doing film scans and I had left the orange anti-static cloth over the light table and them dumped my white film handling gloves over the cloth... a neat orange glow... Cheers, Alan Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. |
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