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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / April 2007How to focus? -- Macro with Digital SLR
Shooting macro at 1:1 or so... How do you focus? It's a serious question. It's notoriously hard to focus macro. There is little depth of field. At 1:5 or 1:3 it's not so hard. My AF 105 Micro-Nikkor does fine in this range. For 1:1, I'm using a Nikon D-70 with a bellows and a variety of lenses. For exposure, I have a "chipped" extension tube that enables stop-down metering and TTL/Matrix metered flash. But, focus is a problem. The "green light" in-focus indicator is not reliable. I can focus on the ground glass viewfinder, but not very well. For example, shooting 1:1 of a USAF test target on a PB-4/PS-4, I can focus the rear stage to within a mm or so using the groundglass, but that's not close enough. The best approach I have found is to focus approximately with the ground glass (moving just the rear standard), then shoot a series of five exposures wide open, moving the rear standard in half-mm increments. Then I download all the images, look at them in photoshop at 100%, choose the best two and possibly interpolate to 1/4-mm. Reset the rear standard, stop down, shoot. A little out of focus destroys the crispness and resolution. Bjorn Rorslett, according to his web site, keeps an old F-2 with magnifier for focusing. He says, "no modern SLR can give adequate focusing accuracy in the extreme magnification range of the Multiphot, an F2 with 6X magnifying finder and M-type clear screen with cross-hairs is needed for critical parallax focusing." Is this "aerial image focusing" where you shift your eye point back and forth, watching for the aerial image to shift vs. a cross-hair? http://www.naturfotograf.com/CPU_extension.html#multiphot Reading elsehwere, an Aussie photographer Gary Ayton favors an Olympus Evolt 330 saying, "the E330 is arguably the BEST digital SLR for macrophotography as it is the only one which can give a 10x live magnification and DOF to assist with manual focus and it has mirror lock up to minimise camera shake." Any experience trying to focus with 10x live LCD? http://www.ayton.id.au/gary/photo/Dig_Oly_E330_2.htm How do you get reliable focus at 1:1 or higher macro with a digital SLR? -=- Richard Karash  SignatureRichard Karash <Richard@Karash.com> Richard "at" Karash "dot" com > Shooting macro at 1:1 or so... How do you focus? Moving the camera. > It's notoriously hard to focus macro. There is little depth of field. [...] > I can focus on the ground glass viewfinder, but not very well. Since there is so little DOF, you can easily focus with the ground glass, especially if you focus with the lens wide open --- it's very easy to see if you are in focus or not. -Wolfgang The D70 from memory has a poor viewfinder, you will find the newer Nikons like the D80 and D200 (and all Pentaxes and better Canons) have a much better/brighter viewfinder so it may be time to upgrade. Also adding a split prism focusing screen may help, have a look here. http://www.katzeyeoptics.com/cat--Nikon-DSLRs--cat_nikon.html > Shooting macro at 1:1 or so... How do you focus? > [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > -=- Richard Karash > The D70 from memory has a poor viewfinder, you will find the newer Nikons > like the D80 and D200 (and all Pentaxes and better Canons) have a much > better/brighter viewfinder so it may be time to upgrade. Also adding a > split prism focusing screen may help, have a look here. Split prisms aren't accurate at macro settings, or more correctly, one side tends to black out. -- www.mattclara.com >> The D70 from memory has a poor viewfinder, you will find the newer Nikons >> like the D80 and D200 (and all Pentaxes and better Canons) have a much [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > -- > www.mattclara.com Damn, always?? >>> The D70 from memory has a poor viewfinder, you will find the newer >>> Nikons like the D80 and D200 (and all Pentaxes and better Canons) have a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> > Damn, always?? You can kinda pull your eye back a little and sometimes get it to work, but then I was never sure if it would be accurate, plus, it's hard to line up something on a split prism if your eye isn't firmly glued to the back of the camera. -- www.mattclara.com > >>> The D70 from memory has a poor viewfinder, you will find the newer > >>> Nikons like the D80 and D200 (and all Pentaxes and better Canons) have a [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > --www.mattclara.com I like the screen on the D200 for macro, I tried to do all my macro work with a matte screen, I have never tried the Katzeye. I find 1:1 on the D200 fairly easy to do, snaps into focus for me, the D70 is the pits, a much darker view. I use the R1C1 strobe with a D70 and even with the the light it has 1:1 is difficult. If you want easier focusing you will need a better viewfinder. All the sysems you are using decrease the light to the camera, that is just physics. Don't compare an SLR system with a Multiphot, the Multiphot was essentially a microscope, where you focused on an airial image, so the viewing path was clear with no focusing screen. The lenses on the Multiphot were also special Nikon Macro lenses, yes macro, they were 19mm, 35mm, 60mm, and 120mm. The shorter focal length giving the most mag. The 120mm is a fantastic lens optimized for 5:1-1:1 mag. You can get it with a shutter for a large format camera, wonderful for LF macro. Unfortunately Nikon discontinued this system years ago. Tom > > >>> The D70 from memory has a poor viewfinder, you will find the newer > > >>> Nikons like the D80 and D200 (and all Pentaxes and better Canons) have a > > >>> much better/brighter viewfinder so it may be time to upgrade. ...snip... > I like the screen on the D200 for macro, I tried to do all my macro > work with a matte screen, I have never tried the Katzeye. I find 1:1 [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > focusing you will need a better viewfinder. All the sysems you are > using decrease the light to the camera, that is just physics. Thanks, all, for the comments. The gist I take from these is "get a better viewfinder." Has anyone else tried macro judging the critical focus on a 10x LCD live preview? The proposition I quoted from this site http://www.ayton.id.au/gary/photo/Dig_Oly_E330_2.htm ... is intriguing to me. Question: Can I get a live preview with any of the Nikon software (Nikon Capture? Camera Control?) that's useful in focusing? Can anyone comment on the practical use in macro work? > Don't compare an SLR system with a Multiphot, the Multiphot was > essentially a microscope, where you focused on an airial image, so the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > get it with a shutter for a large format camera, wonderful for LF > macro. Unfortunately Nikon discontinued this system years ago. Everyone says wonderful things about the Macro-Nikkor lenses! When they appear on eBay, they are very expensive. -=- Rick SignatureRichard Karash <Richard@Karash.com> Richard "at" Karash "dot" com >> > >>> The D70 from memory has a poor viewfinder, you will find the newer >> > >>> Nikons like the D80 and D200 (and all Pentaxes and better Canons) [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > (Nikon Capture? Camera Control?) that's useful in focusing? Can anyone > comment on the practical use in macro work? No, not with Nikon. The best you could hope for is taking the shot and having it displayed on a monitor right away so you could zoom in and check sharpness. Look, it's not that you can't have fun shooting macro with the D70 (I did), I just don't think it'll ever be critically sharp. Keep in mind, that's just me sayin', I tried, and I never managed to pull it off. You've got the gear, so have fun trying, too, and maybe do better than I did. Perhaps a Katzeye screen that's brighter and more greatly magnified than the D70's, combined with an ultra sturdy tripod, which may help with mirror shake... > Everyone says wonderful things about the Macro-Nikkor lenses! When they > appear on eBay, they are very expensive. Look for old used ones, AIS, or even older (some of those need to be converted to mount safely, though). With macro you can slow down and use the screen and histogram to ensure your shot is properly expose. I'm using a 55mm pre-AI (converted) f3.5 micro. It's not a great lens, particularly past f8, but it was free and goes 1:2 on its own, and has very smooth bokeh. -- www.mattclara.com > Question: Can I get a live preview with any of the Nikon software > (Nikon Capture? Camera Control?) Nope. Life preview is a problem of hardware (can the sensor take it? After all, it's designed to capture one shot well, and not designed for 30 frames/second --- is there even enough bandwidth from the sensor to even push out 200-300 Megapixel/second?) There are only a very few DSLRs that have some form of life preview (and not all of them use the main sensor, and pretty much all of them have quite a number of restrictions, like the 20Da). > that's useful in focusing? Can anyone > comment on the practical use in macro work? If you shoot non-moving objects, you can always use a tripod, take a shot, examine it via a capture system on your computer, give the microadjusting head another half turn of the screw, rinse, lather, repeat, till you are happy. With moving things, even if they are just gently swaying in the breeze, you can either try to measure the distance or just hope luck, experience and focus bracketing will see you through. -Wolfgang > Shooting macro at 1:1 or so... How do you focus? > [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > -=- Richard Karash I don't believe you'll be successfull at macro with the D70, not at extreme magnifications. The e-rangefinder, as you indicated, is unreliable under these conditions, as are any split prism focus aids. Additionally, the D70 viewfinder is small and dark. Add to that a lack of mirror lockup, and you'll be lucky or very skillfull (more so than I, and I tried) to get sharp images. I upgraded to a D200, and the brighter, more highly magnified viewfinder combined with mirror lockup met with instant success. Upgrading to a Katzeye view screen may make a big difference, but in my mind the mirror lockup has more to do with it than the screen--after all, you can (and I did) shoot some macro in full sunlight, where I could see fine (not stopped down, but wide open), and I still couldn't get sharp images. I'm sorry to be such a downer. To rub salt in the wound, here are some macro shots I took with the D200. http://www.mattclara.com/misc/D200/dirtyfork/index.html (I think these are 1:2 with a 55mm micro, the one on the far right is a couple megabytes, so be forewarned). http://www.mattclara.com/misc/D200/feb032007/slides/_DSC0027.html That's with a 105mm f2.5 mounted on a Nikon PB-5 bellows (and the D200, of course). -- www.mattclara.com > Shooting macro at 1:1 or so... How do you focus? > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > "green light" in-focus indicator is not reliable. I can focus on the > ground glass viewfinder, but not very well. As mentioned a D80/D200 upgrade will help. Bellows & extension tubes make things darker. I've done reversed lenses on my 105 macro at 5:1 or more & I find it no problem to just twist the focus ring. But standard practice is a focusing rack that fits on your tripod & moves the whole camera setup for fine focusing with a knob. > For example, shooting 1:1 of a USAF test target on a PB-4/PS-4, I can > focus the rear stage to within a mm or so using the groundglass, but [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > -=- Richard Karash > Shooting macro at 1:1 or so... How do you focus? <snip> > How do you get reliable focus at 1:1 or higher macro with a digital SLR? > > -=- Richard Karash There are tripod heads for macro that move the entire camera body (and lens) back and forth. This way, at 1:1 (or other near 1:1) ratios you can achieve accurate focus without moving the tripod. Cheers, Alan Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. |
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