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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / April 2007

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Anybody using the Canon EF 70-300 f/4.5-5.6 IS?

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Scott W - 03 Apr 2007 01:08 GMT
I am thinking of buying this lens for my wife to use, she is currently
using a Sigma 70-200, which is not a great lens, pretty bad in fact.
But she likes to photograph flowers among other things and I have been
unable to find the specs on how close the Canon lens can focus, does
anyone know?  The Sigma does ok as a almost macro lens and she uses it
a fair bit for that, so it would be nice if the canon could do fairly
well at this.

Also for those who have this lens how do you like it over all?

Thanks much

Scott
Ed Ruf  (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!) - 03 Apr 2007 01:14 GMT
>I am thinking of buying this lens for my wife to use, she is currently
>using a Sigma 70-200, which is not a great lens, pretty bad in fact.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>a fair bit for that, so it would be nice if the canon could do fairly
>well at this.

You mean this one?
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelTechSpecsAct&fcategoryid=1
50&modelid=11922

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Ed Ruf (Usenet2@EdwardGRuf.com)
http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html

dwight - 03 Apr 2007 02:41 GMT
>I am thinking of buying this lens for my wife to use, she is currently
> using a Sigma 70-200, which is not a great lens, pretty bad in fact.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Scott

http://www.tfrog93.com/digitals/digitals.htm

Ed pointed you to the specs, I'll point you to some examples. Yes, you can
stand five feet away and zoom in for a "closeup", but I wouldn't call that
the strength of this lens.

For the flowers, see my test of the Canon 100mm macro lens, which I've been
playing with for a week. THAT one's a hoot, and costs roughly the same as
the 70-300, but I swear that the images are much sharper. And it focuses as
close as 6"...

dwight
Mike Coon - 03 Apr 2007 20:52 GMT
> Ed pointed you to the specs, I'll point you to some examples. Yes,
> you can stand five feet away and zoom in for a "closeup", but I
> wouldn't call that the strength of this lens.

But it might be considered a good way to approach a butterfly on a flower...

Mike.
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dwight - 04 Apr 2007 00:38 GMT
>> Ed pointed you to the specs, I'll point you to some examples. Yes,
>> you can stand five feet away and zoom in for a "closeup", but I
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Mike.

http://www.tfrog93.com/digitals/images/flora/2419.jpg

Here. A butterfly on a flower, using the very same 70-300 lens. Yes, I agree
with your point, which is why I enjoyed the S1 so much. That thing had the
equivalent of a 380mm lens with image stabilization, so I could stand well
away and still get a closeup.

BUT... if I want just the flower, I going macro.

dwight
Phil, Non-Squid - 03 Apr 2007 07:24 GMT
> I am thinking of buying this lens for my wife to use, she is currently
> using a Sigma 70-200, which is not a great lens, pretty bad in fact.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> a fair bit for that, so it would be nice if the canon could do fairly
> well at this.

I have one and it's not good for macro w/o extension tubes.  5 feet is way
too far.

> Also for those who have this lens how do you like it over all?

Excellent AF compared to Sigma AF.  I'm not a sharpness fiend, but it seems
good to my eyes.  IS works very well if you're somewhat steady to begin
with.  IMO, definitely worth the money, but I'm no pro.

Signature

Phil

Wolfgang Weisselberg - 03 Apr 2007 14:03 GMT
>> I am thinking of buying this lens for my wife to use, she is currently
>> using a Sigma 70-200, which is not a great lens, pretty bad in fact.
>> But she likes to photograph flowers among other things and I have been
>> unable to find the specs on how close the Canon lens can focus, does
>> anyone know?

Canon's 70-200mm F/2.8 IS USM L can focus down to 1.3 meters
(~ 4.3 feet) giving approximately a 1:5 magnifictaion.
(http://www.photozone.de/8Reviews/lenses/canon_70200_28is/index.htm).  

Generally speaking, there are 4 ways to get macroshots (up
to 1:1)

a) a lens with a short minimum focus for it's length usually
  gives you something up to 1:5 or 1:3 (often with dedicated
  "macro" setting).  That practically always means a tele lens
  --- with a wide angle you'd need to be so close at the object
  that you induce serious proportion shifts (WA-portraits give
  wierd noses and ears, this is worse).
  Be aware that zooms and macro-settings on zooms are always
  compromises[0] and that non-macro lenses usually don't have a
  flat field[1], and so on.

b) a lens, probably as in a), and a diopter lens in front.  
  You basically make the lens myoptic, focussing 'infinity'
  at e.g. half or a quarter meter away.
  Pro: Comparatively cheap, small, carryable
  Con: you want an acromatic diopter for better quality, and
       you'll still have to stop down and sometimes fight CAs
       nonetheless.

c) Bellows or fixed-length bellows (aka extension rings) and a
  high quality lens.
  Bellows move the lens exit pupil forwards, so that the
  lens at 'infinity' will focus more closely; the further
  the lens is moved forward, the closer the object has to
  be.
  Pro: Can reuse lenses, comparatively cheap, no extra glass
       involved
  Con: The image is magnified a lot, small lens errors show
       up HUGE, you loose a lot of light (it hits way
       outside the sensor area, after all, you are
       magnifying things here).  Bellows need space and most
       don't transmit any data => stopped down metering,
       stopped down focussing (by moving camera&lens
       forwards/backwards --- this is true for all
       macrophotography).  No focussing to infinity, you
       have to detach the bellows/rings first.  With rings,
       you need to change them according to lens and
       magnification.

d) a true macro lens.
  Pro: High quality lens, optimized for short focus distances,
       flat field, many of them also work for infinity w/o
       changing a thing.  Easy to use: set the magnification and
       reach focus; no need for fumbling with tubes, bellows or
       front-lens converters.
  Con: AF focussing in macro usually isn't --- focus by changing
       the distance.  You get less light in macro settings (the
       nominal, 'printed' aperture is corrected downwards due
       to the short distance.

  Be aware that the working distance (front of lens to object)
  is much more important than the closest focussing distance
  (which is from the film/sensor plane) since the length of
  the lens is _very_ important.  Also check if the lens extends
  during focussing.

Be aware that you'll either want flash or a stable and flexible
tripod: you need tiny apertures to get a millimeter or so of
field of depth at 1:1, and thus need long exposure times w/o flash.

You can supplement most of these methods by adding an
extender/converter, but be aware that the image quality will
degrade (degrade further, actually, in all cases but the true
macro lens).

-Wolfgang

 
[0] Canon's 70-200mm Ls are excellent lenses and can rival quite
   a few fixed focal length ('prime') lenses in image quality,
   especially at the long end (but not weight and price, and not
   necessarily in open apperture, either --- think 85mm f/1.8
   and f/1.2).  Other zooms are more compromises.  
   You get what you pay for, or less, never more.
 
[1] the area of sharpness for a normal lens is a sphere, which does
  not matter at infinity, since then the part of the then
  infinitely large sphere is flat for all purposes.
  However, at close distances the sphere is small against
  the area that is beimg used ...
King Sardon - 03 Apr 2007 21:06 GMT
>I am thinking of buying this lens for my wife to use, she is currently
>using a Sigma 70-200, which is not a great lens, pretty bad in fact.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>Also for those who have this lens how do you like it over all?

I have this lens and I think it is great. Okay, it is not that fast,
but on the other hand, that makes it small and light and nimble. So
far under my shooting conditions (water birds or monkeys moving
through treetops, etc.), it is very nice and I don't have any need for
anything faster than f/5.6.

For macro use, you can use it with the Canon 500D closeup lens. This
combo will give you up to ~0.9 magnification at 300mm and will give
you lots of working room.

As for sharpness, I have done some tests and find the 70-300/500D
combo to be very sharp indeed at 135mm and f/8 and smaller.
Performance is good all the way out to the edges. It outperforms my
old but highly rated fixed focus SMC Takumar 100mm macro (except at
the edges). It also generally outperforms the Canon 50/1.8 with an
extension ring.

If you want to use the 70-300 with extension tubes, you will need
quite a stack of them to get good magnification. I haven't tried this
yet.

KS
J. Clarke - 04 Apr 2007 03:20 GMT
> I am thinking of buying this lens for my wife to use, she is currently
> using a Sigma 70-200, which is not a great lens, pretty bad in fact.

Whoa, stop!

More details on that Sigma.  The only 70-200 Sigma I can find is the
f/2.8 HX DG, which is in the same performance league as the Canon 70-200
f/2.8L, and that lens is about as good as it gets.  If that's what you
have and you consider it to be "pretty bad" then you're _not_ going to
be happy with the 70-300.  If it's not performing well call Sigma and
ask them what it would cost to get it fixed (assuming it's out of
warranty).  If you've got a different Sigma please say what.

What the 70-300 would bring to the party over the 70-200 HX DG is image
stabilization and 100mm, at the cost of one to two stops of aperture and
a little bit of sharpness.  The 70-300 is also a relatively lightweight
lens.

> But she likes to photograph flowers among other things and I have been
> unable to find the specs on how close the Canon lens can focus, does
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Also for those who have this lens how do you like it over all?

The 70-300 wouldn't be my first choice for a macro.  Or my second or
third.  Needs extension tubes or an auxiliary lens to get to 1:1 and
it's not all that great a lens to begin with.

Here's an example I shot the first or second day I had the lens, just
playing around with it
http://www.flickr.com/photos/39383723@N00/445537015/.  That's about as
close as it will focus--1.5 meters.

It will stop down to f/45, which can be very helpful in close-distance
photography--note that the whole board is within the depth of field--at
5.6 if the heat sink was sharp the bracket at the back was almost lost
in the bokeh.  Of course there's tradeoff--you lose absolute sharpness
at small apertures.

At f/45 you need either sunlight or a separate, good sized flash if
you're going to shoot handheld, otherwise you need a good tripod.

Beyond 200mm or so the autofocus (on a 30D anyway) is slow and sometimes
can't find the focus.  This is a nuisance for birds in flight.

The zoom could use a little bit more friction--it doesn't always stay
put.

All round I'd rank it my least favorite of the Canon lenses I own and I
may yet take it back and get the 70-200 f/4.

If that Sigma is the 2.8 I'd get it fixed and get a purpose made macro
for the flowers.

Signature

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Scott W - 04 Apr 2007 03:45 GMT
> > I am thinking of buying this lens for my wife to use, she is currently
> > using a Sigma 70-200, which is not a great lens, pretty bad in fact.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> f/2.8 HX DG, which is in the same performance league as the Canon 70-200
> f/2.8L, and that lens is about as good as it gets.

Sorry mistyped, it is the Sigma 70-300 f/4-f.5.6
in fact it is this one right here
<http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?
O=8429&A=details&Q=&sku=391074&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation>

Scott
King Sardon - 04 Apr 2007 06:21 GMT
>> I am thinking of buying this lens for my wife to use, she is currently
>> using a Sigma 70-200, which is not a great lens, pretty bad in fact.
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
>The zoom could use a little bit more friction--it doesn't always stay
>put.

You must have the old version. Most of them have a defect causing
unsharpness when used vertically. Canon fixed mine, and that also
eliminated zoom creep.

KS
J. Clarke - 04 Apr 2007 07:25 GMT
>>> I am thinking of buying this lens for my wife to use, she is
>>> currently using a Sigma 70-200, which is not a great lens, pretty
[quoted text clipped - 53 lines]
> unsharpness when used vertically. Canon fixed mine, and that also
> eliminated zoom creep.

Just checked the serial number--you're correct.  Need to call Canon and
get it corrected.

Signature

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

 
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